Dollywood dress code

[Andtototoo]

I don't happen to be a fan of the shirt. But...some folks feel that just by walking together, or holding hands, we're a "walking platform". They don't want us in public either. ALL of these things can lead to "conversations", I'm assuming...

Just wonderin' where human being ends and "platform" begins.

Exactly.

As an example: last year, I took DD16 along with a friend of hers and a friend of mine to an Adam Lambert concert. In back and around us were quite a few teenagers and we were all chatting with each other before the show and having a good time. The other teens left to go the merch booth and it occurred to me that I'd like a picture of the four of us, so I nonchalantly tapped the shoulder of a woman seated in front of us. This woman was part of a lesbian couple and had had her arm around the shoulder of her partner. When I tapped her and she turned around, her face was such a mixture of anxiety and aggression that I realized instantly that she was expecting to be attacked in some way. I put up my hands and said, "I just wanted to ask you to take a picture of us."

She laughed and told me, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I just saw you with kids and assumed you were about to tell me to stop touching my partner because 'of the children'." She took the picture and we were chatting with them and they told us that many times when they go out in public, any physical touch including leading against each other or holding hands will lead to someone getting in their grill and telling them to stay home or demanding they stop because they didn't want "the children exposed to that lifestyle and think it was normal". They've had to leave places because they felt the verbal attacks might lead to a physically threat.

I pointed out to her that I was taking 'the children' to an Adam Lambert concert, so clearly I'm not worried about exposing 'the children'. LOL We all had a good laugh, ended up having a good time together, the concert was amazing, but what I remember most was learning how simply holding your partner's hand can be considered a political act worthy of attack.

 

[Goofyluver]

I would defend vigorously the right of that lesbian couple to wear bride and bride tees. Or "just married" tees, or any darn thing that heterosexual couples wear.

I can't support the "marriage is so gay" tee, however. It's rude and it's overtly political.

I don't think the tee is political, as much as I feel it continues the use of the word "gay" as a pejorative...which we need to get away from in this country. And you're totally right, using "that's so gay"...or any of the incarnations...is rude.

 

[Scurvy]

I think discrimination based on sexual orientation is completely wrong but I don't have any problem with this situation. They weren't kicked out because they were gay, so they were given the same right to enjoy the park that any other family would have been given. If I saw a shirt saying "______ (fill in the blank) is so gay" I'd assume it was intended as an insult, because that's what people typically mean by that phrase. I think as long as they ban all shirts that seem to be using gay as a slur and other shirts that use bad language or racial slurs, etc, then there's nothing wrong with this shirt being banned as well.

Now if they ban "Mrs" and "Mrs" shirts but allow "Mrs" and "Mr" shirts, or make a couple turn their "Bride" and "Bride" shirts inside out while allowing other people to wear "Bride" and "Groom" shirts, that would be a problem. But until something like that happens, I don't see any reason to assume that this was some sort of violation of equal rights.

Well, I only did a couple quick searches...

But, NO I do not think it is true that DollyWood has Gay Days.

I believe that there are Gay Advocacy groups who have gone about organizing this type of thing... As mentioned, people/families of any orientation would be able to come to DollyWood....

But, according to what I see, DollyWood has never been involved or sanctioned this type of thing.

Last time I checked (and it could have changed, but I don't think it has) Gay Days at Disney World is also organized by an outside group and not by Disney. It isn't an official Disney event and Disney doesn't sponsor it. So I would think that if another group (or even the same group) were to organize a similar event at Dollywood then it would essentially be the same as the Disney one. There are private after-hours events at Disney World for Gay Days, but then there are those sorts of events available to any groups that choose to pay for them. Obviously Disney is aware of Gay Days and given the number of rainbow colored pins (and shirts, antenna toppers, and other things) that are available during that time of year they don't seem to mind the event and want to profit from it, but I don't think you'll find and "Gay Days 2011" merchandise sold by Disney because they don't officially host the event.

 

[Tinkermommy]

I'm thinkin' that rather than "obtuse", it's incredibly narrow-minded to believe that "gay" is all about the sex.

Think of it this way...rather than a "marriage is so gay" t-shirt worn by a lesbian, here comes a heterosexual couple wearing "bride" and "groom" tees. They've obviously been married, and are happily walking with huge grins on their faces. Would a discussion about their marriage begin with a discussion regarding sex?

And I still say...Equal rights (not gay rights) ARE family friendly. Gays and lesbians are denied equal rights in this country, which means their families are denied equal rights, and many of us have families, just like you.

I agree with this. When my daughter (around age 6 or 7) asked me what being gay meant I told her "When people love one another of the same gender." She was very satisfied with that answer. She didn't know what sex was and I saw no need to bring that up. Just like if friends/family get married I don't bring up sex.

I am pro-gay marriage. If I saw someone with that t-shirt I would think it was a slam to gay marriage not in favor of it. So I can see why they were asked to turn it around.

Also, I think people seeing a family with two moms or two dads having fun at a theme park would do more towards making gay marriages/families "normal (although I hate that word)." But that wouldn't have gotten them on the news (or the Dis boards).

 

[Disney845]

I personally don't have a problem with the T-shirt, although I, as a few other posters have said, would have read it more as a pejorative against marriage (like when people say something is "gay" to indicate that they think it is stupid, etc), and not as a person making a political statement about the rights of homosexual marriage.

I think that the more salient topic is that an establishment has a policy (whatever the policy may be!) and they are sticking to it, and the employees are not too shy to stand up for the policy and request the guests abide by it. I wish that more establishments trained their employees to help to promote and regulate the policies of their establishment.

I would applaud Dollywood for that, and think that Disney could take a few pointers now and again. I have seen people inappropriately showing body parts, in clothing which had slurs, swear words, or suggestive language on it, people smoking outside of smoking areas, people line jumping, bad mug usage, etc, etc and theme park employees saw and said nothing, either because they just don't care, are not trained to do anything, or are too scared, I just don't know?

So long as policies are carried out in a non-biased manner (for example, a young black male wearing a shirt flipping the middle finger got in trouble while a middle aged white father in the same shirt was allowed passage), I think this promotes a more wholesome environment all around. If a person feels that they are unable to express themselves in such an environment, than the answer is to simply not visit said establishment.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm thinkin' that rather than "obtuse", it's incredibly narrow-minded to believe that "gay" is all about the sex.

Think of it this way...rather than a "marriage is so gay" t-shirt worn by a lesbian, here comes a heterosexual couple wearing "bride" and "groom" tees. They've obviously been married, and are happily walking with huge grins on their faces. Would a discussion about their marriage begin with a discussion regarding sex?

And I still say...Equal rights (not gay rights) ARE family friendly. Gays and lesbians are denied equal rights in this country, which means their families are denied equal rights, and many of us have families, just like you.

When you use your pursuit of rights to condemn mine--then it becomes "platform" like...

The shirt wasn't about equal rights. It was about condeming someone else's rights. One cannot be for equal rights and then think that is okay.

While you claim that is just about equal rights--how many times have I heard, "what I do in my bedroom is my business"--yet many signs...on a link someone had on facebook in support of those equal rights...kept referring to that bedroom business.

While it isn't "just about sex", it does get mentioned.

 

[Goofyluver]

Exactly.

As an example: last year, I took DD16 along with a friend of hers and a friend of mine to an Adam Lambert concert. In back and around us were quite a few teenagers and we were all chatting with each other before the show and having a good time. The other teens left to go the merch booth and it occurred to me that I'd like a picture of the four of us, so I nonchalantly tapped the shoulder of a woman seated in front of us. This woman was part of a lesbian couple and had had her arm around the shoulder of her partner. When I tapped her and she turned around, her face was such a mixture of anxiety and aggression that I realized instantly that she was expecting to be attacked in some way. I put up my hands and said, "I just wanted to ask you to take a picture of us."

She laughed and told me, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I just saw you with kids and assumed you were about to tell me to stop touching my partner because 'of the children'." She took the picture and we were chatting with them and they told us that many times when they go out in public, any physical touch including leading against each other or holding hands will lead to someone getting in their grill and telling them to stay home or demanding they stop because they didn't want "the children exposed to that lifestyle and think it was normal". They've had to leave places because they felt the verbal attacks might lead to a physically threat.

I pointed out to her that I was taking 'the children' to an Adam Lambert concert, so clearly I'm not worried about exposing 'the children'. LOL We all had a good laugh, ended up having a good time together, the concert was amazing, but what I remember most was learning how simply holding your partner's hand can be considered a political act worthy of attack.

I love (and am jealous of) Adam Lambert's eye make-up.

I always wonder what folks trying to "protect the children" think about our families when we walk by with OUR children?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't think the tee is political, as much as I feel it continues the use of the word "gay" as a pejorative...which we need to get away from in this country. And you're totally right, using "that's so gay"...or any of the incarnations...is rude.

Then that makes the shirt wrong regardless of who wore it and not an issue of their rights being violated.

 

[Buckalew11]

Well, I only did a couple quick searches...

But, NO I do not think it is true that DollyWood has Gay Days.

I believe that there are Gay Advocacy groups who have gone about organizing this type of thing... As mentioned, people/families of any orientation would be able to come to DollyWood....

But, according to what I see, DollyWood has never been involved or sanctioned this type of thing.

Again, DollyWood has every right to ban clothing that has reference to sexual orientation.

I just think that they need to have very specific language in their policy, and it must be fair, and ban reference to ANY sexual orientation (not just gay).

If they don't have that now...
I would bet big money that they are workin' on it!

From what I've read, Disney does not sanction "Gay Days" either. I think it is a group of people who started it. From what I read the same group has had different dates for many parks and Dollywood is one of them. I know it for a fact because, like I said, my parents and DH worked there.

Ok this is so off topic - sorta. I went to Dolly's concert in Knoxville last week. OMG she is SO wonderful. I had front row. I didn't go by myself but sat by myself. On every side of me there was a gay couple (men). No joke. She has a huge gay following. I thought I would be uncomforatable being the only girl amidst all the mens. I was so wrong had the best time I have ever had. We talked, laughed, sang. It was funny. One had a shirt that said this Gay loves you and she pointed and said I love you too.

Sorry this was off topic but I really enjoyed that concert. I don't think this would be Dolly's personal decesion but she has probably signed off on letting someone makes those kind of decesions.

Like I said, Dolly has a huge G/L following and she knows it and loves it. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Dolly meant "I love you too" when she mouthed that back. She is a good person with a huge heart (must be why she needs that big chest )

Dolly loans her name to the park. She isn't like Walt Disney with his park. Dollywood is owned by Herschend Family Entertainment. It used to be called Silver Dollar City.

 

[Goofyluver]

When you use your pursuit of rights to condemn mine--then it becomes "platform" like...

The shirt wasn't about equal rights. It was about condeming someone else's rights. One cannot be for equal rights and then think that is okay.

While you claim that is just about equal rights--how many times have I heard, "what I do in my bedroom is my business"--yet many signs...on a link someone had on facebook in support of those equal rights...kept referring to that bedroom business.

While it isn't "just about sex", it does get mentioned.

A. I'm not a fan of the shirt. I've explained why.

B. BUT, how was the t-shirt condemning someone else's rights?

 

[Tinkermommy]

Exactly.

As an example: last year, I took DD16 along with a friend of hers and a friend of mine to an Adam Lambert concert. In back and around us were quite a few teenagers and we were all chatting with each other before the show and having a good time. The other teens left to go the merch booth and it occurred to me that I'd like a picture of the four of us, so I nonchalantly tapped the shoulder of a woman seated in front of us. This woman was part of a lesbian couple and had had her arm around the shoulder of her partner. When I tapped her and she turned around, her face was such a mixture of anxiety and aggression that I realized instantly that she was expecting to be attacked in some way. I put up my hands and said, "I just wanted to ask you to take a picture of us."

She laughed and told me, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I just saw you with kids and assumed you were about to tell me to stop touching my partner because 'of the children'." She took the picture and we were chatting with them and they told us that many times when they go out in public, any physical touch including leading against each other or holding hands will lead to someone getting in their grill and telling them to stay home or demanding they stop because they didn't want "the children exposed to that lifestyle and think it was normal". They've had to leave places because they felt the verbal attacks might lead to a physically threat.

I pointed out to her that I was taking 'the children' to an Adam Lambert concert, so clearly I'm not worried about exposing 'the children'. LOL We all had a good laugh, ended up having a good time together, the concert was amazing, but what I remember most was learning how simply holding your partner's hand can be considered a political act worthy of attack.

I just read this and had to say that is so very sad.

And living near Atlanta, you see a lot of gay couples so it IS the norm in certain areas.

 

[Goofyluver]

Then that makes the shirt wrong regardless of who wore it and not an issue of their rights being violated.

Who said the couples' rights were being violated?

Again...I don't. like. the. shirt.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Exactly.

As an example: last year, I took DD16 along with a friend of hers and a friend of mine to an Adam Lambert concert. In back and around us were quite a few teenagers and we were all chatting with each other before the show and having a good time. The other teens left to go the merch booth and it occurred to me that I'd like a picture of the four of us, so I nonchalantly tapped the shoulder of a woman seated in front of us. This woman was part of a lesbian couple and had had her arm around the shoulder of her partner. When I tapped her and she turned around, her face was such a mixture of anxiety and aggression that I realized instantly that she was expecting to be attacked in some way. I put up my hands and said, "I just wanted to ask you to take a picture of us."

She laughed and told me, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I just saw you with kids and assumed you were about to tell me to stop touching my partner because 'of the children'." She took the picture and we were chatting with them and they told us that many times when they go out in public, any physical touch including leading against each other or holding hands will lead to someone getting in their grill and telling them to stay home or demanding they stop because they didn't want "the children exposed to that lifestyle and think it was normal". They've had to leave places because they felt the verbal attacks might lead to a physically threat.

I pointed out to her that I was taking 'the children' to an Adam Lambert concert, so clearly I'm not worried about exposing 'the children'. LOL We all had a good laugh, ended up having a good time together, the concert was amazing, but what I remember most was learning how simply holding your partner's hand can be considered a political act worthy of attack.

Did ya see this?

Lesbians Kicked Out of Gertrude Stein Exhibit for Holding Hands

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A. I'm not a fan of the shirt. I've explained why.

B. BUT, how was the t-shirt condemning someone else's rights?

Someone's marriage must be "so gay" and "dumb/stupid" or whatever...

So if gays can't legally be married-then whose marriage might they be referring to?

If it was a white person wearing a shirt saying "that's so black" or "that's so hispanic", how might that be received? As supportive of the rights of those that are not Caucasian?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Who said the couples' rights were being violated?

Again...I don't. like. the. shirt.

Got it.

 

[crusoe2]

I'm thinkin' that rather than "obtuse", it's incredibly narrow-minded to believe that "gay" is all about the sex.

Think of it this way...rather than a "marriage is so gay" t-shirt worn by a lesbian, here comes a heterosexual couple wearing "bride" and "groom" tees. They've obviously been married, and are happily walking with huge grins on their faces. Would a discussion about their marriage begin with a discussion regarding sex?

And I still say...Equal rights (not gay rights) ARE family friendly. Gays and lesbians are denied equal rights in this country, which means their families are denied equal rights, and many of us have families, just like you.

Goofyluver, you and I are probably closer in thinking on this issue than you might think. I am certainly for equal rights for gays. That said, I don't believe I said that being gay is ALL about sex - and I certainly didn't mean to imply that. You are absolutely correct - that would be like saying that all marriages are just about sex. But I do think that it could prove difficult to explain something that closely related to sexual orientation without getting into the sex part. Wouldn't be impossible but it could be tricky - really depends on what other questions the child asks and that can be hard to predict.

I think the difference in the 2 situations you mentioned - the gay rights tee shirt and the bride and groom tees - is that most kids are probably not going to ask in-depth questions about the bride and groom tees. A parent can easily just say that the couple must have just gotten married and, unless that's a totally new concept to the child, most kids won't give it another thought. But for a lot of kids, the idea of a same-sex couple is a new concept and is more likely to lead to more questions. I don't think that's a bad thing. I welcome the questions and I'm not uncomfortable answering them. But I do think the conversation could easily cross over into the sex talk - in fact, could be a great way to introduce the topic to a child who is ready for that. But out of consideration for my child, I would rather have that conversation where/when we have some privacy and I can give it my full attention.

FWIW, I would feel even more strongly about the tee shirt that Anjelica mentioned - the "Marriage=1 man and 1 woman" slogan. I don't think that's appropriate either.

 

[patti_jim_peanut]

I don't like "XXX is so gay" being used as a pejorative. If her shirt just said something like "2 people + Love = Marriage" or something else benign I think it would be fine.

I am a huge supporter of gay rights and gay marriage but I don't think Dollywood was wrong in this case.

I agree. I'm a supporter as well, but if I had seen that shirt, it would have irritated me as well. It wasn't about marraige equality, it was about how in your face and offensive can you be without getting a rise from someone. The shirt wearer got what they were looking for, a reaction and 15 minutes of fame on top! Not to mention, I hate the phrase "That's so gay!" and think anyone who uses it is an ignorant b.o.o.b!lol

 

[Goofyluver]

Someone's marriage must be "so gay" and "dumb/stupid" or whatever...

So if gays can't legally be married-then whose marriage might they be referring to?

If it was a white person wearing a shirt saying "that's so black" or "that's so hispanic", how might that be received? As supportive of the rights of those that are not Caucasian?

Interesting perspective.

Can't speak for the gays who wear the shirt and what their motives might be...not all of us have good taste. Neither do the straights though.

 

[Goofyluver]

Goofyluver, you and I are probably closer in thinking on this issue than you might think. I am certainly for equal rights for gays. That said, I don't believe I said that being gay is ALL about sex - and I certainly didn't mean to imply that. You are absolutely correct - that would be like saying that all marriages are just about sex. But I do think that it could prove difficult to explain something that closely related to sexual orientation without getting into the sex part. Wouldn't be impossible but it could be tricky - really depends on what other questions the child asks and that can be hard to predict.

I think the difference in the 2 situations you mentioned - the gay rights tee shirt and the bride and groom tees - is that most kids are probably not going to ask in-depth questions about the bride and groom tees. A parent can easily just say that the couple must have just gotten married and, unless that's a totally new concept to the child, most kids won't give it another thought. But for a lot of kids, the idea of a same-sex couple is a new concept and is more likely to lead to more questions. I don't think that's a bad thing. I welcome the questions and I'm not uncomfortable answering them. But I do think the conversation could easily cross over into the sex talk - in fact, could be a great way to introduce the topic to a child who is ready for that. But out of consideration for my child, I would rather have that conversation where/when we have some privacy and I can give it my full attention.

FWIW, I would feel even more strongly about the tee shirt that Anjelica mentioned - the "Marriage=1 man and 1 woman" slogan. I don't think that's appropriate either.

We were at Sea World visiting the dolphin area once. It was mating time in the dolphin tank. Ohhhhh...the conversation that stemmed from that visit! I promised the kiddo that we'd talk about what we'd observed at a later time...he was satisfied with that!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Interesting perspective.

Can't speak for the gays who wear the shirt and what their motives might be...not all of us have good taste. Neither do the straights though.

Ain't that the truth.