does this happen alot, people who make reservations only to sell then?

[Dean]

Pam, I understood your basic premise initially and agree to a large extent. I'll tell you though that the vast majority of people I see wanting to rent are looking at how many points and what's the cost per point whether it's through this board or otherwise. Most of the rest are looking at a full week and surprised by how much it is then start asking what other options there are. Hence the Sun-Fri comes up at about 60% of the cost of a full week. If you're renting a unit already reserved or if you're doing an auction, you can do what you propose. Still it basically boils down to a price per point. The bottom line is that as long as the points differential is as it is, S-F rentals and stays will be common. I can tell you that I've only paid one weekend day points in all of my DVC stays and that was at VB when we had to be there Saturday night regardless.

I don't think the weekends should be evened out but suspect some minor adjustment would likely be in order. The goal would be to set the demand for each and every day the same. While this will never be perfect, I'm sure it can be improved.

 

[drtpaper]

If you want the week that someone else booked, simply buy it from them and sell your points. There are few people who make out on hard to get weeks. I have been watching the board for a long time and have not found points being scalped. The price difference tends to be based upon the length of time left until point expire. I finally bought into the program after going with friends and found the renter board too sparse to meet my vacation needs. I do not need all the points and will rent out some of my points through the years since we only go every 3 years.

If you are interested in prime weeks, you have just as much chance of getting it as the other members. How a member uses his points is his choice. You should reserve your prime week and cancel if you don't want to use it. If there were a ton of profit in the values of those weeks, Disney would have charged a lot more points for them.

 

[DisneyCrazy]

Originally posted by Dean
.

I don't think the weekends should be evened out but suspect some minor adjustment would likely be in order. The goal would be to set the demand for each and every day the same. While this will never be perfect, I'm sure it can be improved.

Yes, even may not make sense, but I think some sort of 'leveling' is in order.

For instance, our GV in August is 55 points/night Sun-Thus, Friday and Saturday would be 123 points/night. I could rent the 246 points for $10/point, pay cash for Fri-Sat and put $400 in my pocket!

I agree a premium for the weekends make sense, I just think it is out of line at this point.

But then again, I like the cheap weekdays, I don't mind (actually enjoy) staying at other Disney/US hotels for a few nights so maybe I should just keep to myself

 

[tripletvan]

The question I originally posed was does it happen alot that people will reserve rooms only to SELL them to non members? I was curious as to are there many people who book to make a profit.I would not have a problem trading points for a weekend but do not feel comfortable with having them sold to non members.It is diffucult as I have learned to get through to MS when booking at peak or near peak season and have been shut out and placed on the waiting list. I guess you could say that frustration sparked this question.

 

[Peterd]

Tripletvan, if you get a chance, check your private messages.
peter

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by tripletvan
The question I originally posed was does it happen alot that people will reserve rooms only to SELL them to non members? I was curious as to are there many people who book to make a profit.I would not have a problem trading points for a weekend but do not feel comfortable with having them sold to non members.It is diffucult as I have learned to get through to MS when booking at peak or near peak season and have been shut out and placed on the waiting list. I guess you could say that frustration sparked this question.

The answer is yes it happens but not that much. This is the system you've bought into. I'm still in the dark as to you ability to schedule. I'm still not certain whether you were calling every day and didn't get what you wanted one day or whether you were calling at the end to make the entire reservation at once and previously available days were not available to you. I was also uncertain as to whether you got through earlier and just couldn't wait on hold or if you didn't get through at all. I'm also assuming this is for BW, if so, were you open to standard AND preferred options?

I've always said that a persons personal situation had no bearing on the club. By that I mean if someone doesn't know their vacation times 11 months out or is working and can't call; that's not a problem for the Club. Personally, I take time off the mornings when I truly need to schedule my time or have my wife do it. Email followed by a phone call can be helpful in some cases as well.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

So someone who is retired or someone who always wants to stay Christmas Week without "variation" shouldn't be allowed?

Nope, never said this. Those who can do this are welcome to. Perhaps when I can retire, I'll be able to. This is not the same as scalping practices and is not a logical, rational justification for scalping practices. One doesn't follow the other.

I see making reservations at peak times with no intent to ever actually stay and use the points but only to sell them to others on a regular basis as commercial use of DVC points and in violation of the DVC agreement. I cannot enforce or require anyone to agree or comply with my view. In an open forum where I have the opportunity to present my views on this without personally disparaging other posters, I am here to say I see this as absolutely wrong, and harmful to other members. I also have not seen so far in this discussion even marginally reasonable points regarding why it should be acceptable to fellow DVC members. Nothing against any fellow posters, but the strength of the opposing aurgument has not yet been well made in my view.

Best wishes to all staying on thier own points at DVC resorts.

 

[Peterd]

"I see making reservations at peak times with no intent to ever actually stay and use the points but only to sell them to others on a regular basis as commercial use of DVC points and in violation of the DVC agreement"

I couldn't agree with you more Captain.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
Nothing against any fellow posters, but the strength of the opposing aurgument has not yet been well made in my view.

It's perfectly ok to disagree and we do very strongly on this point. How about the strenght of the arguement that it would be illegal for DVC to prevent one from renting what a person owns. Besides there are multiple references in the POS saying it's ok to rent. There is this one vague statement the POS saying that "commercial use" is not permitted. Even assuming it's enforceable, which I don't believe it is legally, one would need to be obviously and repetatively renting to trigger this clause.

 

[PamOKW]

Hey, PeterD I think we're on the same side on this issue.

Sort of tying to the two threads together.....how about DVC enforcing the rules that renters are NOT accorded the same privileges as members? That could cut down on the number of pool hoppers.

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Hey, PeterD I think we're on the same side on this issue.

Sort of tying to the two threads together.....how about DVC enforcing the rules that renters are NOT accorded the same privileges as members? That could cut down on the number of pool hoppers.

Pam (or anyone else) - How would DVC know who is renting and who is a guest? Or are you proposing that "DVC priviledges" only be in effect if the member is actually staying in the room?

I don't like rules that are virtually impossible (expensive) to enforce, especially if there aren't any facts and data to warrant the rule in the first place. Obviously, I'm not convinced that there is enough renting activity to be concerned. FWIW, I don't pool hop and haven't rented any points. I like knowing that I could, but don't see myself ever doing either.

 

[PamOKW]

Sarcasm gets lost in cyberspace.

I truly would like to see DVC enforce their written rule about customers who pay DVC members to use their points not being entitled to the member benefits but I recognize that it is pretty darn impossible to enforce. The "other thread" discussed various things that cause over crowding when DVC'ers pool hop....this was "sort of a joke" reply. I'm sorry for the confusion.

 

[PamOKW]

How about the strenght of the arguement that it would be illegal for DVC to prevent one from renting what a person owns.

This is truly a question....not a challenge. If the above is true, how are condo complexes allowed to place restrictions on rentals? I know a friend's Florida condo had a problem with Spring Breakers. They instituted a policy that rentals had to be for 6 months or more. Would it be possible for Disney to require cash rentals be for a certain period of time.....such as a week or more? Once again, enforcement would be difficult but maybe not as impossible. If a member put a weeklong reservation in another name they could be required to sign a document that they were not receiving cash compensation for the rental. People might work around it but it could be a deterrent.

Once again, I can't judge whether or not the amount of rentals is worth worrying about or not. My feeling is that it is still minimal.

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Sarcasm gets lost in cyberspace.

Wouldn't it be great if we could "hear" the posts in the poster's own voice instead of just reading the words? I think I'd post a lot more if that technology were available.

Sorry I missed the intent/sarcasm. Feel like I've read enough of your posts that I should have picked that up.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by PamOKW


This is truly a question....not a challenge. If the above is true, how are condo complexes allowed to place restrictions on rentals? I know a friend's Florida condo had a problem with Spring Breakers. They instituted a policy that rentals had to be for 6 months or more.

Pam, a good question. The problem is that any rule must be the same for everyone, in this case DVC and CRO would have to follow the same rule, obviously that's not possible. You're talking about a situation where people own the entire unit for the year. In that case, it's very possible to limit rentals to 1, 3 or even 6 months or in some cases to block rentals all together.

DVC can do things to make it more difficult. They could enforce the rules about rentals not getting the perks. I know I've rented a couple of times and told MS it was a rental but when they checked in, the cards still said member and they got the perks. DVC has even given renters the 10% discount on UMP which is supposed to require the member themselves to be staying in the SAME unit to get that discount. Disney is literally the 600 lb Gorilla so they could make it more difficult if they wanted to, they obviously could care less in this area. Those that read the "commercial use" as basically meaning anything for a "profit" are letting their desires interfere with reality.

 

[MulanMom]

For some reason, we had asked about the "commercial use" clause (it was a long,long time ago, so I don't even remember why, unless we were worried if you ever rented, it would be considered commercial). The response we got was more along the lines of someone actually staying at a DVC resort long enough and setting oneself up in business working from the villa/room and hanging out a shingle. That was in the early 90s when very few folks had any idea what impact the internet would have with renting/selling points or resales.

Sharon

 

[DisneyCrazy]

I think Dean brings up a VERY good point for those opposed to renting to 'strangers'. DVC/DVD in fact do this, with their 4% and all the points exchanged (II, DCL, etc) - it's not like it is only 'us' that are staying there.

I personally don't every see myself renting (out) points - I need MORE the way it is (just wish I could afford it!), but I don't see anything wrong with someone using their points as they see fit. We all have the 11/7 month windows to deal with, if you get it before I do then it is my lack of planning and luck.

The 'strangers' bit is a little off base too I think - I've heard a few stories of friends being made via DVC point rentals.

Also I think the 'commercial use' as MulanMom was informed makes more sense - DVC was meant for vacations, not running a business - no matter the party on vacation.

 

[fkj2]

I doubt Disney would be interested in taking the time, expense and aggravation of patrolling who stays at its DVC resorts.


The other thing is, if it's your family/friends who are using your points, how is Dis supposed to discern between them and another nonmember who may have rented points? I would imagine that most members that have given their points to family or friends would hope that they would enjoy the same privileges as the member him/herself.

 

[PamOKW]

I agree fkj2 that it would be difficult to enforce. My guess is that the rule is in place just in case DVC rentals ever cut into Disney's rental of hotel space. If it were profitable for them, they would find a way to make it happen. There is a lot of language in the contracts warning against anyone trying to go up against Disney in the hotel rental business.

As things stand now, I agree that trying to enforce this would risk putting people we give "gifts" of trips to at a disadvantage. It isn't worth that.

The only real concern I had with rentals, and when the practice really first came to light on these boards, was when people booked NYE 1999 hoping to turn a profit. I thought that was abusive since DVC had done anyway with the Priority List and went with a lottery to be "fair" and also limited the number of rooms people could book. People took advantage of this attempt to be "fair". In the end, I don't think many of them realized the riches they had hoped for. I would just hope that if a special situation like that arose again that some other restriction, like requiring a member in the room, might also be added.

 

[^^^ SnowBunny ^^^]

We are not DVC owners and to be quite honest, do not intend on joinging specifically because of how easy it has been to rent points from other members. I feel if you can rent them at $7 or $8 per point - you are getting an awesome deal on what the room normally sells for. We like OKW and the cheapest we could get it with an AP rate would be comparable to renting someone's points at $10 per point. Hence, no incentive to buy here. Maybe that will change in the future if travel picks up and others don't rent out their points but with 60,000 + members I don't see that the rental market will close.

As far as pool hopping is concerned -- if I have a card that says "dvc member" and we feel like enjoying the day at SAB we will. I'm sure there's many that agree on that and many that disagree and honestly everyone's entitled to their own opinions.

It's obvious that to the members who have invested in the steep purchase price that it irks you to see others come along and rent without plopping down the purchase price - and that's fine. I am enjoying DVC and still keeping $20K in the bank and saving on dues. Disney might not be for us for the next 40 years, so I prefer to do things this way. I realize that per point (actual cost) it comes to like $5 or $6 per actual point - and if we rent for $7 like we've done - I don't think we're doing bad at all!!

I do not have any desire to begin a battle in cyberspace so this will be all I post on the subject. Good day everybody!!