Does DVC just not work for some people?

[MichelleVW]

Then rent.

We're leaning towards resale!

 

[chalee94]

Hi: I just wanted to clarify some things just in case there are people out there reading these posts. As DVC members, depending on the the size of the villas, my kids do get their own rooms so my husband and I can read or watch tv...I get it about the price and respect your opinion about what works for you but I want other people who may be considering DVC to get a real picture about what they may be buying into. If they read your most recent posts they may believe the villas do not have additional bedrooms or that there are not towels at the designated pools.

no big issue but i can see it both ways.

i think "real" deluxe hotels like the waldorf tend to be nicer than "disney deluxe" hotels and have noticed it's a fairly common opinion on the DIS. the GF has a great location but disney simply isn't an elite hotelier and elite offsite hotels will tend to beat them on service and amenities, usually at a lower price. (and DVC villas are generally regarded as a step down from the disney deluxe hotels by some, if only due to the lack of daily housekeeping...although the refurb cycle is probably also a bit longer for DVC resorts.)

i love my DVC but while you can get multiple BRs with DVC, the price i paid for a 7 night stay in a super nice 2BR offsite timeshare would be roughly equivalent to a 2-3 night stay in a studio at BLT. so i get what Keurigirl is saying about getting more space offsite for a better price.

 

[disney212]

Just my 2 cents but I find the service top notch and I have visited 26 countries and stayed in some of the finest hotels not only in the US but also in Europe due to my job. Disney actually has the Disney Institute where a lot of the top rated corporations including hoteliers send their folks to learn how to deliver top notch service, how do I know that, I have attended classes at the institute and met some of them in person. I also love the mattresses at Disney as do so many folks they actually published a mini catalog that allows people to purchase them and the linens. Everyone has a list of what is important to them. Are there things that could be improved upon, of course there are. Is Disney for everyone, of course not. My point is that for every argument one side puts forth there is a completely different opinion. A private pool is of 0 value to my family but a less than 5 minute walk to the MK is priceless to us. You don't seem to care for the Disney Hotels, we would rather not go the Disney if we had to stay off site. My rooms have always been spotless at Disney. I have had an unclean room at a 5 star rated hotel and I have had spotless rooms at other 5 star rated hotels. I also don't use the transportation as I prefer renting a car, but I love the ME and my luggage being taken care of and I am happy they do offer the transportation as I love having that option. If we choose to go to DTD and have a few adult beverages we can always take a bus or depending on where we are staying the boats all at no additional charge. I can stay in African , I can say in a Yacht Club or on a Board Walk. A lot of folks love having a big kitchen in there resort to cook, I don't cook on vacation. I know that as an owner I have a more critical eye when looking at something I own versus something I rent. I rent a car I don't notice if it has a grocery cart ding on the bumper but I can spot one on my car from a mile away. So as DVC owners and potential owners we are more critical, this isn't a place that we try and if we don't like we just walk away. We have made a 50 year commitment so we are going to want everything to be the way we want it and everyone has a different opinion on how it should be and I think that adds a lot to the "issues" you see posted on these boards by members. If we all liked and wanted the same things it would be a very boring world.

 

[k3chantal]

no big issue but i can see it both ways.

i think "real" deluxe hotels like the waldorf tend to be nicer than "disney deluxe" hotels and have noticed it's a fairly common opinion on the DIS. the GF has a great location but disney simply isn't an elite hotelier and elite offsite hotels will tend to beat them on service and amenities, usually at a lower price. (and DVC villas are generally regarded as a step down from the disney deluxe hotels by some, if only due to the lack of daily housekeeping...although the refurb cycle is probably also a bit longer for DVC resorts.)

i love my DVC but while you can get multiple BRs with DVC, the price i paid for a 7 night stay in a super nice 2BR offsite timeshare would be roughly equivalent to a 2-3 night stay in a studio at BLT. so i get what Keurigirl is saying about getting more space offsite for a better price.

I think the real issue is that the OP doesn't like the packaging that Disney has chosen to sell DVC. She is stuck on what she feels is an inferior product because of the word "Deluxe". Disney's 'deluxe' hotels are 'deluxe' for Disney hotels; not comparable to other hotel chains.
I too have stayed in five star hotels and know what a truly elite experience would look like. I don't think Disney is ever trying to say that they are attempting to do that. Even the words they use as you register, "Welcome home" tells you that they want you to feel like you are home. I guess if you are use to premier sheets with an enormous stitch count and have wait staff at your mansion you may feel slighted at a DVC property. For the rest of us, staying at one of these resorts feels, well, just like home.

As for price, sure you can get more somewhere else, but as with all properties, the first rule of thumb is location, location, location. And you can't get closer than on property.

But as I posted previously, it's okay that she doesn't get it and she has found a way to go to Disney that works for her. It doesn't mean the rest of us are crazy though.

 

[disney212]

I think the real issue is that the OP doesn't like the packaging that Disney has chosen to sell DVC. She is stuck on what she feels is an inferior product because of the word "Deluxe". Disney's 'deluxe' hotels are 'deluxe' for Disney hotels; not comparable to other hotel chains.
I too have stayed in five star hotels and know what a truly elite experience would look like. I don't think Disney is ever trying to say that they are attempting to do that. Even the words they use as you register, "Welcome home" tells you that they want you to feel like you are home. I guess if you are use to premier sheets with an enormous stitch count and have wait staff at your mansion you may feel slighted at a DVC property. For the rest of us, staying at one of these resorts feels, well, just like home.

As for price, sure you can get more somewhere else, but as with all properties, the first rule of thumb is location, location, location. And you can't get closer than on property.

But as I posted previously, it's okay that she doesn't get it and she has found a way to go to Disney that works for her. It doesn't mean the rest of us are crazy though.

I totally agree with you. I also admit that I love when they say "Welcome Home" We vacation other places too but I always feel like I am a guest but at my DVC I guess because I own a little piece of it we think of it as "our other home"....

 

[taaren]

We are snobby travelers, actually; and most of the time stay in nicer hotels than Disney offers. That is a big reason we stay offsite at Disneyworld - not only is it cheaper, but it's better accommodations. Disneyworld is just so big to us (since we do mostly Disneyland) that it doesn't matter to us whether we are onsite or off site.

Since you mostly do Disneyland, I'd argue that there might be *some* value in VGC for you, instead of the DVCs at WDW. At DLR, because driving sucks (see Hydroguy's Hotel Rule), there really aren't any *nice* hotels that compare distance-wise to the Grand Californian. I'm a hotel snob, too, now that we can afford it I won't stay in less than a 3.5 and generally prefer a 4 star (when we're out of points, we stay at the Marriott and cab it since its the closest non-motel).

Btw, I'd classify the GCH (and apparently the Grand Floridian) as deluxe hotels since hotels.com rates them as a 4.5 star. The other deluxes are all considered 4 star. And to be staying at a 4.5 with a walkway to California Adventure park sure beats the heck out of the Best Western Park Place Inn for this hotel snob.

Whether or not that value might worth the buy in to you is another story though.

 

[Sammie]

Well, not everyone, like I said in my post "for some people". We're such Disney lovers and go so often that it seems like it should make sense for us. I'm constantly getting told that we should be DVC owners. So I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something in all my calculations. In a way, I kind of wanted to be wrong, because I sure would like to be part of that club! But honestly, I did the math and for us to stay at a similar accommodation onsite, the yearly maintenance fees alone are more than what we pay offsite. And given that there will always be maintenance fees that go up at about the same rate as the hotel pricing, it will almost always be cheaper for us to stay offsite.

And as far as offsite vs onsite, I know there is a big debate about it, which I don't want to create here. It's personal preference. I personally don't feel immersed any more staying onsite than I do offsite at Disneyworld because everything is so spread out. And I don't like taking the disney buses. So to each their own.

You are obviously Disney park people not Disney resort people so no, DVC would not be a good match for you.

It works for us because, our yearly dues are way less than what the 2 bedroom villa on Disney property would cost. As to whether there is better/cheaper accommodations off site is personal choice. We bought DVC so our family would have their own bedrooms, bath and living area. We don't do studios or sleep on sofa beds, but we do want to be on Disney property.

Plus we bought when the price per point was less than half what it is now.

As to staying at the Ritz Orlando for less than a Disney moderate, you must be getting a discount at the Ritz because their rack rates are higher than moderates, as I have looked at them several times.

 

[Dean]

Our nightly room rate works out to about $200 a night (and that includes dividing out our initial investment over 20 years) this year...well under what you can find on property for similar accommodations, especially considering our family size.

IMO that method significantly undervalues your initial investment. It's certainly your choice but others need to know there's actually more cost to using the money up front and/or financing than just dividing that amount over the remaining years.

 

[jennybdis]

I have fairly well-behaved children, but I know I wouldn't feel very relaxed on vacation if I were staying at a 5-star hotel off-property, even if my children were on their very best behavior. Nor would I feel wonderful about bringing my sweaty, sun screened, tank-top and shorts wearing self through the lobby following a long day at a park.

While our deluxe hotel experience at Disney wasn't the nicest place I've ever stayed in terms of mattresses, linens, housekeeping, etc., it was certainly acceptable, and ranks right up there with some of the best hotels I've stayed at in numerous big cities (Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, San Diego, Chicago, etc.) in terms of how my *family* is treated on vacation, making sure I'm comfortable (which extends to me feeling like it's perfectly fine to walk through the lobby with a kid passed out in his stroller with chocolate milk stains on his shorts), and making sure my satisfaction is met.

I digress, though...

This is an odd thread, yes? It's like asking a room full of vegetarians why meat doesn't work for them from a person who know that she loves burgers and would never give them up? To each her own. If you know that staying on property isn't for you and the bus system doesn't meet your satisfaction, then yes, you know DVC doesn't work for you.

 

[crisi]

I think the real issue is that the OP doesn't like the packaging that Disney has chosen to sell DVC. She is stuck on what she feels is an inferior product because of the word "Deluxe". Disney's 'deluxe' hotels are 'deluxe' for Disney hotels; not comparable to other hotel chains.
I too have stayed in five star hotels and know what a truly elite experience would look like. I don't think Disney is ever trying to say that they are attempting to do that. Even the words they use as you register, "Welcome home" tells you that they want you to feel like you are home. I guess if you are use to premier sheets with an enormous stitch count and have wait staff at your mansion you may feel slighted at a DVC property. For the rest of us, staying at one of these resorts feels, well, just like home.

As for price, sure you can get more somewhere else, but as with all properties, the first rule of thumb is location, location, location. And you can't get closer than on property.

But as I posted previously, it's okay that she doesn't get it and she has found a way to go to Disney that works for her. It doesn't mean the rest of us are crazy though.

I don't live in a mansion, but my home does have a better mattress, a down comforter, nicer sheets and a housekeeper who cleans it twice a week. So DVC is a step down from home.

 

[pilferk]

IMO that method significantly undervalues your initial investment. It's certainly your choice but others need to know there's actually more cst to using the money up front and/or financing than just dividing that amount over the remaining years.

I addressed opporunity cost in the same post. It was definitely a consideration. As we didnt really finance...that wasnt a consideration

Factoring in opportunity cost into an estimated nightly rate five years into our purchase wasnt/ isnt something that interested me at the time. Feel free to offer the additional analysis ( rather than just suggesting it should be done).

 

[Dean]

I addressed opporunity cost in the same post. It was definitely a consideration. As we didnt really finance...that wasnt a consideration

Factoring in opportunity cost into an estimated nightly rate five years into our purchase wasnt/ isnt something that interested me at the time. Feel free to offer the additional analysis ( rather than just suggesting it should be done).

I'm to the point of just offering my opinion, feeling and judgement on many subjects much of the time, this is one of them. My opinion is also that one should figure return of investment over the first 10 years, not the full RTU time remaining. YMMV.

 

[Keurigirl]

Wow. This thread is getting pretty defensive and nasty for a question that I really wanted an honest response to. I really was wondering if I was missing something before making my final decision - it was an honest question. I was not judging other's reasoning for purchasing, nor was I trying to say that DVC is stupid and doesn't make sense to buy.

There is no reason to get nasty.

I think the real issue is that the OP doesn't like the packaging that Disney has chosen to sell DVC. She is stuck on what she feels is an inferior product because of the word "Deluxe". Disney's 'deluxe' hotels are 'deluxe' for Disney hotels; not comparable to other hotel chains.
I too have stayed in five star hotels and know what a truly elite experience would look like. I don't think Disney is ever trying to say that they are attempting to do that. Even the words they use as you register, "Welcome home" tells you that they want you to feel like you are home. I guess if you are use to premier sheets with an enormous stitch count and have wait staff at your mansion you may feel slighted at a DVC property. For the rest of us, staying at one of these resorts feels, well, just like home.

As for price, sure you can get more somewhere else, but as with all properties, the first rule of thumb is location, location, location. And you can't get closer than on property.

But as I posted previously, it's okay that she doesn't get it and she has found a way to go to Disney that works for her. It doesn't mean the rest of us are crazy though.

Well first, I never said anyone was crazy for purchasing DVC. And it's not that I "don't get it".

You're right, Disney's 'deluxe' hotels are 'deluxe' for Disney hotels; not comparable to other hotel chains. I am not stuck on the word "deluxe". I'm not a snob, I don't live in a mansion with wait staff, and liking higher thread count sheets is not a crime.

A $250 a night room is a $250 a night, it's the same money. When comparing resorts, I want to know what that $250 is getting me. And FOR ME, doing the comparisons tells ME that I can get better service, fixtures, ammenities, sheets, mattresses, etc staying in an off property hotel than I do staying on property. FOR ME, I don't care about being on property since the property is so big. Clearly you feel differently and that's fine. There is no reason to knock my personal choices when I did not knock yours.

For the record, however, I've stayed on property and spent as much as an 75 minutes waiting for and riding busses to get back to my "on property" resort. I have found that we are often home within 10 minutes when we choose to stay off property. It's 5 minutes by car to the Disneyworld gates from the resort we choose to stay at - far closer to some of the parks than some of the "on property" resorts. So FOR US, it doesn't matter if we stay on property. Obviously that matters to you and that is totally fine. PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT. It doesn't make you better than me or me better than you. Chill.

I have fairly well-behaved children, but I know I wouldn't feel very relaxed on vacation if I were staying at a 5-star hotel off-property, even if my children were on their very best behavior. Nor would I feel wonderful about bringing my sweaty, sun screened, tank-top and shorts wearing self through the lobby following a long day at a park.

While our deluxe hotel experience at Disney wasn't the nicest place I've ever stayed in terms of mattresses, linens, housekeeping, etc., it was certainly acceptable, and ranks right up there with some of the best hotels I've stayed at in numerous big cities (Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, San Diego, Chicago, etc.) in terms of how my *family* is treated on vacation, making sure I'm comfortable (which extends to me feeling like it's perfectly fine to walk through the lobby with a kid passed out in his stroller with chocolate milk stains on his shorts), and making sure my satisfaction is met.

I digress, though...

This is an odd thread, yes? It's like asking a room full of vegetarians why meat doesn't work for them from a person who know that she loves burgers and would never give them up? To each her own. If you know that staying on property isn't for you and the bus system doesn't meet your satisfaction, then yes, you know DVC doesn't work for you.

Again, it was an honest question. No need to get defensive of your decision. Your example is way off about my intentions for asking this question.

And also, no one can make you feel anything you don't want to feel. If YOU feel uncomfortable walking through a 5 star resort with a passed out kid in a stroller with a chocolate milk stain on his shorts, that's your issue. I've never been made to feel uncomfortable in ANY 5 star hotel that we've stayed at, no matter what we are wearing.


Thank you to everyone who answered my question nicely and honestly. I really appreciate your responses.

I'm leaving this thread now.

 

[bakerworld]

One more thought: when we were young it was a challenge to visit FL WDW and do better than others with our vacation dollar. Then we tired of the challenge. We just wanted to board the airplane, get to our hotel and walk into the parks. If that's want you want to do about twice a year for a weeks stay each time the DVC via re-sale works economically.

That's all folks! (Warner Bros - I know)

 

[danimaroo]

I have to be honest... You say that basically you don't get DVC and list all of these reasons why you don't get it, that post right there in itself should've answered your question, and thus you didn't even really need to post about it.

You will never want to do DVC for the very reasons you listed in your OP, done and done.

What it comes down to is this; for a lot of people, they want to have great accommodations AND enjoy the location in not having to deal with driving and being close to the parks.

You cannot enjoy the 5 minute walk to Epcot from an off-site location that you get when you stay at Beach Club Villas. You cannot enjoy walking 5 minutes to grab a Friendship Boat to HS, or walk 25 minutes to HS from an off-site location. And our last trip we never waited more than 5-10 minutes for a bus back to Beach Club.

Are the accommodations themselves as good as another off-site place? Maybe not, and I do think that's really a personal opinion, but when you factor in the location for pretty much every DVC resort, that will always beat out off-site locations.

That being said, if you are someone who prefers deluxe accommodations, you WANT that great location, and you go to Disney frequently, then DVC makes sense for you.

If you like staying off-site and don't like staying on-site, for the reasons you've stated, then DVC is not for you. That's just kind of it.

I guess I don't get why you even considered getting DVC in the first place if you don't like staying on-site.

 

[pilferk]

I'm to the point of just offering my opinion, feeling and judgement on many subjects much of the time, this is one of them. My opinion is also that one should figure return of investment over the first 10 years, not the full RTU time remaining. YMMV.

So rather than contribute, you'd rather judge other's contributions? Fair enough....I'll do likewise when considering your posts rather than continue the conversation.

 

[Dean]

So rather than contribute, you'd rather judge other's contributions? Fair enough....I'll do likewise when considering your posts rather than continue the conversation.

Not judging, just offering my opinion on a subject that's been discussed extensively over the years and one where there are many variables and many end points depending on the assumptions one makes related to the numbers. You can go back and search for those thread's if the numbers are important to you. Rather than getting into the "my number is better than your number" issue, I'm simply offering my opinion on the principle that ignoring the time value of money is unreasonable in valuing such a purchase though anyone is free to make their own assumptions. I'm to the point in life and this board to simply offering my opinion on subjects at times rather than go through the steps to get there, if that offends you, then you'll simply have to be offended. If you want to know how I got to a specific thought, you're always free to ask but the reality is that it's often going to be based on knowledge and experience rather than simply numbers.

 

[montrealdisneylovers]

I give a lot less consideration to the time value of money in todays investing environment (extremely low interest rates and crazy volatile stock market)

 

[Dean]

I give a lot less consideration to the time value of money in todays investing environment (extremely low interest rates and crazy volatile stock market)

Your choice of course. I chose to take a long term approach on investing and a short term view of timeshares. I also tend to consider the worst case scenario as well as the potential upside. IMO, the potential upside for DVC is the only situation where DVC makes sense financially and even then, for a subset of people who go to Disney parks. Put another way, it's essentially all downhill from here once you buy. I'd also venture that DVC has lost more money than the market over the recent period down double digits instead of just having low interest rates. I'd also suggest that many are still making the higher returns that are historical and that the bank rates are not an indication of how to look at long term investments though it is an indication of short term money (5 years or less).

 

[Brian Noble]

We're leaning towards resale!

But, if you are not sure you are going to be interested in DVC long term, it would still be better to rent for a trip or two. Buy only if you think you'll be going even after the kids are older, and other life changes happen. At current resale prices, renting is a little more expensive than owning under reasonable time-value-of-money assumptions, but only over a relatively long horizon.

And, IMO, only buy resale, never from the developer.

ignoring the time value of money is unreasonable in valuing such a purchase

FWIW, I completely agree with this. You can pick the cost rate you like (and can still justify buying resale even with a relatively conservative cost of capital) but you should at least consider it. For anyone who would rather not do so, I have a proposition: loan me $10,000 today, and I'll pay you back $500 a year for the next 20 years.