Does Disney have to offer DVC perks?

[achinforsomebacon]

There's been a lot of talk about when perks, specifically the AP discount, will be available for blue card members. I'm not saying they shouldn't reinstate the perks, but just wondering if they need to. It really comes down to how much the perks help with sales. Would it change things that much if the sales pitch was limited to being able to use your points at all resorts, including future ones and also being able to use your points on DCL, Adventures by Disney, etc? Those were the big selling points when I was there a few years ago. I don't remember if the AP discount even came up. It's possible I missed it though since I had no intention of buying direct. I just wanted my fast passes and ice cream.

If they came out and said the AP discount was going away once APs were being sold again, there would be a lot of grumbling from current owners, but would it really hurt sales that much in the long run? I'm sure Disney is constantly reviewing the perks to see how much it's costing them and if they think they're worth keeping. Since they won't tell me what they think of the perks, what do you think?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I think it would have minimal impact. The perk to get the gold pass is relatively new. Before that I believe there was roughly a $100 discount. Of course the initial offering was nice, but I think there was quite a gap between that and the $100 discount.
Long term members may correct me in that.

All that said, the knowledge of resale, and information from the Internet was not was it is today.

 

[Yankee626]

Without any perks why would anyone buy direct at all ? The perks are the biggest selling point of buying direct .

 

[Pluto1976]

Without any perks why would anyone buy direct at all ? The perks are the biggest selling point of buying direct .

Agreed! The biggest reason I waiver now on buying direct vs resale is mainly for the discounts on APs, dining, and merchandise discounts. The decreasing gap between direct and resale prices for certain resorts along with the ease of the purchase process are factors as well.

 

[Marionnette]

There's been a lot of talk about when perks, specifically the AP discount, will be available for blue card members. I'm not saying they shouldn't reinstate the perks, but just wondering if they need to. It really comes down to how much the perks help with sales. Would it change things that much if the sales pitch was limited to being able to use your points at all resorts, including future ones and also being able to use your points on DCL, Adventures by Disney, etc? Those were the big selling points when I was there a few years ago. I don't remember if the AP discount even came up. It's possible I missed it though since I had no intention of buying direct. I just wanted my fast passes and ice cream.

If they came out and said the AP discount was going away once APs were being sold again, there would be a lot of grumbling from current owners, but would it really hurt sales that much in the long run? I'm sure Disney is constantly reviewing the perks to see how much it's costing them and if they think they're worth keeping. Since they won't tell me what they think of the perks, what do you think?

I don't think that the lack of perks would have an impact on new sales, to new members who purchase without researching the market too much.

Where it will hurt would be with current owners and those potential buyers who are aware of the resale market. If DVC resorts to using the stick (resale restrictions) instead of the carrot (AP discounts and dining/merch deals), it will eventually have an influence on purchasing decisions. Right now, the most frequently asked question in direct vs resale is "are the benefits worth buying direct?" Remove those positives of blue card membership and all you've got are the punitive costs of being a white card owner in terms of where your points can and cannot be used.

 

[Sandisw]

They are not required the the membership extra document was indeed updated on June 3rd to make that even clearer.

It now says “from time to time” they may offer a discount AP but again it’s offered as a contract with DPEP.

So, any and all perks are considered a bonus. I do think you will always seem some level of perks but not all perks are unique as different people have access to get similar ones elsewhere.

 

[havoc315]

Without any perks why would anyone buy direct at all ? The perks are the biggest selling point of buying direct .

1. Many buyers aren't really aware of the re-sale market. They take the tour while visiting WDW and purchase.
2. Only a direct buyer can use their points at ALL resorts, including likely future resorts. In the short term, this might not seem like a big deal. You can buy an original-14 resale and use it at 14 out of 15 resorts... but...
3. In the long term, the resale restrictions will become a big deal for all re-sale buyers. By 2042, a re-sale buyer will likely only be able to use their points at a handful of the oldest resorts. Where a direct buyer may have options of 15-20 resorts, including the newest and nicest, a re-sale buyer might only have about 8 resorts they can use, less than half the DVC resorts, and zero Epcot area resorts.

I suspect a big part of the reason Disney put in the re-sale restrictions was so they could, in the long term, make direct purchasing much more attractive without the need for "extra perks."

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Most buyers are not doing it after a lot of research or with a lot of data. They believe what the guide tells them. They believe that "you can use your points all over the world and even at Disney hotels if you want!"

The perks have never had to be substantive.

 

[sethschroeder]

I think it would have minimal impact. The perk to get the gold pass is relatively new. Before that I believe there was roughly a $100 discount.

Yes but ticket prices were much lower and APs normally were much lower.

So it does change math. I also suspect very few DVC Members "take advantage" of the offer to a point Disney is losing the much money. Most people maybe go 1 or 2 times a year. Not like you have a ton of out of state people who always stayed on property, always bought limited tickets, and now they are getting huge discounts.

 

[havoc315]

Yes but ticket prices were much lower and APs normally were much lower.

So it does change math. I also suspect very few DVC Members "take advantage" of the offer to a point Disney is losing the much money. Most people maybe go 1 or 2 times a year. Not like you have a ton of out of state people who always stayed on property, always bought limited tickets, and now they are getting huge discounts.

Disney likely makes money by giving DVC members the discounted pass. There are 2 competing revenue factors:

1 -- People who would visit the exact same number of days whether they had a discounted pass or not. By giving these people a discounted pass, Disney loses revenue
2 -- People who visit MORE often, because of the discounted pass. From these people, Disney makes a TON of additional money. These people end up buying more points to stay more often. They spend on dining and entertainment while they are on property. They bring cash-paying friends and family. Even if Disney isn't making extra ticket purchase money from these people, they are making extra profit in lots of other ways.

In all likelihood, factor-2 outweighs factor-1. Offering targeted discounts ultimately brings in MORE revenue than is lost by the "discount." This is very much the science behind the Disney Dining Plan -- They don't lose a penny by offering the plan, it ultimately increases their revenue and profit significantly.
For the AP discounts, the way they further discount a "renewal" is designed so you don't let your AP lapse. Encourage you to visit every year, instead of skipping a year.

 

[fixerupper]

1. Many buyers aren't really aware of the re-sale market. They take the tour while visiting WDW and purchase.
2. Only a direct buyer can use their points at ALL resorts, including likely future resorts. In the short term, this might not seem like a big deal. You can buy an original-14 resale and use it at 14 out of 15 resorts... but...
3. In the long term, the resale restrictions will become a big deal for all re-sale buyers. By 2042, a re-sale buyer will likely only be able to use their points at a handful of the oldest resorts. Where a direct buyer may have options of 15-20 resorts, including the newest and nicest, a re-sale buyer might only have about 8 resorts they can use, less than half the DVC resorts, and zero Epcot area resorts.

I suspect a big part of the reason Disney put in the re-sale restrictions was so they could, in the long term, make direct purchasing much more attractive without the need for "extra perks."

1. People keep saying this but it blows my mind people fork over 5 figures without research, especially for a timeshare! I've always heard such horrible things about timeshares. I researched for over a year before I bought (resale).

3. Yeah, but no one will have enough points to stay in them with those high point charts anyway.

 

[havoc315]

3. Yeah, but no one will have enough points to stay in them with those high point charts anyway.

Well... Minimum purchase will be 25,000 points by then....

 

[RoseGold]

Disney is the master of FOMO, and so far people seem to getting bitten with FOMO with practically no Blue Card benefits.

There are perks they could do that are free or even make them more money, like booking windows or merch or whatever, and none of that has happened. They did very few of the wine tasting/VIP tour kind of events, but I don't see why they couldn't make money on this kind this thing with special, expensive events or OMG an extra paid 30 minutes or something. They could even do a sad, even cheaper AP discount and people would defend it and their Blue Card to the death because you totally break even in 12 years, 11 if you buy enough merch.

IMO, the biggest trick up their sleeve for FOMO is the OMG next resort. Those pickings are slim and will be for years. That said, if they added an actually desirable hotel to the mix, like a room on the Star Wars hotel, I'd buy direct right now.

 

[Bing Showei]

2 -- People who visit MORE often, because of the discounted pass. From these people, Disney makes a TON of additional money. These people end up buying more points to stay more often. They spend on dining and entertainment while they are on property. They bring cash-paying friends and family. Even if Disney isn't making extra ticket purchase money from these people, they are making extra profit in lots of other ways.

This. A Disney timeshare sucks you into the ecosystem. On our first AP, our 1-2 trips/year family became a 4 trips in a single year one. An easy choice given the “free” park entry AND accommodations. We did paid late night parties, paid early entry events, massage services, none of which we had done before.

I’m checking out of Aulani today and while I thoroughly enjoyed my time here this week, there is little chance I would’ve stayed here without ownership into Disney’s timeshare or the actual per night rate we paid for our 2BR. And I certainly wouldn’t have forked over for three adults and a child to attend a Disney Luau.

The Disney timeshare halo effect is financial boon for the mothership, marketing costs for perks notwithstanding.

1 -- People who would visit the exact same number of days whether they had a discounted pass or not. By giving these people a discounted pass, Disney loses revenue

1. People keep saying this but it blows my mind people fork over 5 figures without research, especially for a timeshare! I've always heard such horrible things about timeshares. I researched for over a year before I bought (resale).

Except it’s not a timeshare, it’s “vacation club,” and people aren’t forking over five figures, they’re paying a monthly bill of $350/month to give their families a “lifetime of memories.”

The vast majority of points that Disney acquires is by way of foreclosure when people surrender their 1-3 year old contracts, realizing they bit off a little more magic than they can chew. It’s a testament to both the marketing magic of The Walt Disney Company, and the reliable appetite for people to buy things they really can’t afford.

 

[npatellye]

Without any perks why would anyone buy direct at all ? The perks are the biggest selling point of buying direct .

We just added on direct because the difference between resale and direct for the number of points we wanted (with our December UY) was around $2500-$3,000. We just found it easier to add on direct and to not have to worry about restricted points and non-restricted points, especially since our biggest factor in adding on was to combine points as much as possible for Thanksgiving trips.

 

[havoc315]

We just added on direct because the difference between resale and direct for the number of points we wanted (with our December UY) was around $2500-$3,000. We just found it easier to add on direct and to not have to worry about restricted points and non-restricted points, especially since our biggest factor in adding on was to combine points as much as possible for Thanksgiving trips.

This is an important point. Sometimes the difference in price between Direct and Re-sale is exaggerated:
The difference CAN be huge, if talking about re-sale points at a sold-out resort, versus direct at that sold-out resort.

But with incentives and aggressive pricing, Disney's "new" DVC resorts often have prices that are not much higher than re-sale at some of the better resorts.
With incentives, Riviera has been $170 to $180 ballpark for much of the last year, per point. That's less than some of the re-sale pricing at GFV, and only slightly more than the re-sale pricing at BLT, BCV, BWV, etc.

So unless you have your heart set owning at a particular "sold out" resort, buying the new resort isn't necessarily much more expensive than buying re-sale at the old resorts.

 

[RyanDisneyDad]

We would probably become sellers instead of buyers if the AP doesn't come back or something comparable. We are planning on buying direct at DLT. That or turn our points into rentals until it does. Doesn't make financial sense to go there as much if we don't have em.

 

[DebbieB]

Except it’s not a timeshare, it’s “vacation club,” and people aren’t forking over five figures, they’re paying a monthly bill of $350/month to give their families a “lifetime of memories.”

The vast majority of points that Disney acquires is by way of foreclosure when people surrender their 1-3 year old contracts, realizing they bit off a little more magic than they can chew. It’s a testament to both the marketing magic of The Walt Disney Company, and the reliable appetite for people to buy things they really can’t afford.

Timeshares have a bad reputation so they make it sound special. Read any promotional material, at the bottom it says something like "the purpose is to sell timeshare periods".

I think many people get sucked in by the sales presentation and like how easy it is to buy direct. No making offers, waiting to settle, points available immediately. I actually sat in with a friend on a presentation we got talked into at the DVC Epcot lounge a couple of years ago. She's a former member, she got a gift card and we both got fastpasses. And ice cream. I bought over the phone in 1999 (with her guide), so I never had the full presentation. It was slick. She really had no intention to buy again but we had some free time and went along with it.

I actually told him if he could get me VGC for the same price as Riviera, I would buy on the spot (knowing VGC was going at $285 and had a long waitlist), just to see his reaction. He made a phone call and said, no sorry no availability.

 

[CSLucas]

This is an important point. Sometimes the difference in price between Direct and Re-sale is exaggerated:
The difference CAN be huge, if talking about re-sale points at a sole-out resort, versus direct at that sold-out resort.

But with incentives and aggressive pricing, Disney's "new" DVC resorts often have prices that are not much higher than re-sale at some of the better resorts.
With incentives, Riviera has been $170 to $180 ballpark for much of the last year, per point. That's less than some of the re-sale pricing at GFV, and only slightly more than the re-sale pricing at BLT, BCV, BWV, etc.

So unless you have your heart set owning at a particular "sold out" resort, buying the new resort isn't necessarily much more expensive than buying re-sale at the old resorts.

Agreed. And, even at sold-out resorts the difference is often exaggerated. I keep a spreadsheet for the 3 contracts for VGF (2 direct, 1 resale). My base price/pt/yr (before adding in annual dues) in 2020 dollars is $4.34 for resale, $6.11 for direct. Getting a fully loaded direct contract (which is all direct contracts as long as you buy before the UY) really helps the direct math. For me, a $2/pt difference per year over the lifetime of the contract isn't worth the hassle of resale. I know there are plenty of people who will say that that's not a good way to look at it because you are foregoing a return on that money you paid up-front, but the truth is that I doubt a ton of people who are buying DVC are thinking that way, and unless you are the kind of person who consistently invest any extra cash (I'm not) then it really doesn't change the math.

All that to say, I don't think they need to offer perks beyond the ability to have unrestricted points. Really all they need to do is offer a few token perks to keep there from being an uproar from current members until they cycle through to the new crop of DVC owners. I didn't buy my direct points for perks - I bought them for convenience, because it's still a screaming deal over the rack rates we were paying at GF, and because my kids are young enough that resorts expiring are a real consideration.

 

[The Jackal]

1. Many buyers aren't really aware of the re-sale market. They take the tour while visiting WDW and purchase.
2. Only a direct buyer can use their points at ALL resorts, including likely future resorts. In the short term, this might not seem like a big deal. You can buy an original-14 resale and use it at 14 out of 15 resorts... but...
3. In the long term, the resale restrictions will become a big deal for all re-sale buyers. By 2042, a re-sale buyer will likely only be able to use their points at a handful of the oldest resorts. Where a direct buyer may have options of 15-20 resorts, including the newest and nicest, a re-sale buyer might only have about 8 resorts they can use, less than half the DVC resorts, and zero Epcot area resorts.

I suspect a big part of the reason Disney put in the re-sale restrictions was so they could, in the long term, make direct purchasing much more attractive without the need for "extra perks."

At WDW in 2042 BCV, BWV and BRV will go off the availability list. OKW has been extended to 2057. I do not foresee DVC building that many new DVC hotels at WDW, unless they just start taking over more pre-existing hotels, like CCV and VGF2. At least with CCV they are getting a full 50 years of contract, while VGF2 will expire in 2064. More DVC resorts with pre-existing hotels means more people at parks= more crowds. Remember that Reflections was a part DVC and part cash resort. I can’t remember the percentage but there were more cash rooms than DVC. If they keep building new resorts, they will need a new theme park to reduce crowds. The way this management is acting, don’t expect a new park for a long, long time. I cannot believe that they have so many attractions that are shut down, some for many years and do nothing with them. This doesn’t happen at others theme parks. Six Flaggs by us when it closes for the season will tear down an attraction and have a new one built when they open in the spring.