Does anyone else not piling on the Concordia Captain

[extechie rbd/wdt]

You have to have a spine in order to stand up to someone, especially when they challenge you about what you have done wrong.

Ex Techie

 

[arielchickenofthesea]

And you have never once had an accident? Do you remember being in absolute shock? No you didn't have the 4,000 lives you we responsible for, but not everyone handles shock the same way.

I am just saying I don't join the masses wanting to pile on the captain. I never said I was calling him a hero either.

And people are dead and missing because of him and his reckless aberration from the charted course. I have never made a mistake that killed another human being let alone maybe up to 30.

The man is a pompous jerk and keeps coming up with excuse after excuse as to why he was not on the ship helping with the evac. Her is a murderer. He had no authorization to deviate from his course and he did, endangering the lives of thousands and killing some of the passengers on his ship. I hope he spends his life in prison.

 

[rosermama]

An accident is just that. An accident.

An accident implies that you did everything right or close to right and something happened, you know like you were driving your car and you slide on the ice and hit someone- that's an accident

Now if you are driving your car the wrong way up a one way street and you hit someone- that's stupidity but more over its gross negligence which is exactly what this situation is gross negligence.

The fact is he admitted he wasn't using instruments on a 1/2 billion dollar vessel (I'm sure some of that money went to technology) with over 4000 souls aboard. Another fact is that he knew he was off course but he did it anyway- they have courses for a reason. Do you think the pilot of an airplane can just get off course if he wants- NO cause he could hit another plane or a mountain.

It wasn't deliberate but it was 100% avoidable and he is 100% accountable for all happenings on board the ship. What you don't hear about is when someone falls off a ship, maybe cause they drank too much, that is the captain's responsibility and he will have to face the music for it. 100% accountability he understood that when he took helm of that boat and he understood that accountability meant proper training and evacuation procedures

 

[arielchickenofthesea]

I am saying I am not one of those piling ont he Concordia Captain because the misstatements in the media make me not believe most of it. There are those in the cruise ship world who can exactly see how the captain could have been assisting passengers and could not get out of a lifeboat with the crush of passengers. To me the Italian CG is just ranting and the Concordia captain is not arguing with him at all. He sounds in shock and worried. To me the CG is not listening at all to the reports from the captain. To me it sounds that he is in a lifeboat with his second in command to assess the situation.

An accident is just that. An accident.

Why are you so adamant about defending this murderer? Yes, murderer. He killed people because HE decided to take the ship off course due to mhis own arrogance, and he did not order the evac soon enough and he lied about how serious the problem onboard really was. Instead he jumped into a lifeboat and he saved his own hide because he is a coward.

He is a murderer and an arrogant pig. Why do keep defending him?? I don't get it.

 

[DCLSecondChance]

He is a murderer and an arrogant pig. Why do keep defending him?? I don't get it.

No he is not. I am saying I refuse to believe what the media is saying he has been saying in court. It was an ACCIDENT!!!

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

No he is not. I am saying I refuse to believe what the media is saying he has been saying in court. It was an ACCIDENT!!!

.............. OK, You win.

Ex Techie

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

No he is not. I am saying I refuse to believe what the media is saying he has been saying in court. It was an ACCIDENT!!!

In the words of Judy Judy, calling something an 'accident' is like saying it wasn't an 'on purpose'. It doesn't mean someone isn't negligent or responsible for what happened, it only means they didn't intend for it to happen.


He is the Captain of vessel that ran ashore because it tool the uncharted route.

He is the Captain of a vessel that delayed it's mayday call.


He is the Captain of a vessel that directed passengers to go back to their staterooms instead of the muster stations.


He is the Captain of a vessel who abandoned his ship before he knew where all of his crew or passengers were.


No one is accusing him of flying a plane into the World Center(s)...but we can and we will hold him accountable for what happened on his ship and for what he did and failed to do.

 

[twindaddy]

Sorry, couldnt resist! Hata's gonna hate!

 

[MTmomma]

To be perfectly honest, I believe that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of either extreme. There is three sides to every story. He said, the company/costguard/etc said, and then the truth. Media outlets in this day and age are freaking jokes. They operate under the timeline of being first, and we will check for facts later. I was highly amused when a respected national news agency used CRUISE CRITIC as a source. Really people? What about Yahoo printing a retraction and apology for mis identifying the video of a pool flooding, as a video from the Costa Concordia?
Yeah the captain screwed the pooch big time on this. Did Costa (and Carnival Corp) encourage showboating? Did it encourage deviation from the standard plotted path for "touristic reasons?" Yeah, they did. I think the truth is somewhere smack dab in the middle of the flaming piles of he said she said, and it may NEVER truely and fully come out.

 

[Disney Dreams]

...for what happened on his ship and for what he did and failed to do.

And no one HERE knows what that is.

- Dreams

Disclaimer: Okay, someone here may work with some agency/company/gov't and have first-hand knowledge of what happened on the ship, but for the most part, no one.

 

[fla4fun]

To be perfectly honest, I believe that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of either extreme. There is three sides to every story. He said, the company/costguard/etc said, and then the truth. Media outlets in this day and age are freaking jokes. They operate under the timeline of being first, and we will check for facts later. I was highly amused when a respected national news agency used CRUISE CRITIC as a source. Really people? What about Yahoo printing a retraction and apology for mis identifying the video of a pool flooding, as a video from the Costa Concordia?
Yeah the captain screwed the pooch big time on this. Did Costa (and Carnival Corp) encourage showboating? Did it encourage deviation from the standard plotted path for "touristic reasons?" Yeah, they did. I think the truth is somewhere smack dab in the middle of the flaming piles of he said she said, and it may NEVER truely and fully come out.

I agree completely. The media will take things out of context to make the story more over the top, and you can't believe everything you hear. We will probably never know exactly what transpired that night.

But the one thing I haven't been able to discount are the accounts by the passengers. They all talk about the chaos on board, and how the crew didn't know what to do. I think in the end, it will come down to the captain taking some blame, and Carnival taking some blame. I believe there was a corporate culture in place that certainly didn't discourage, and may have in fact encouraged, the type of actions the captain took in regards to navigating the ship. There was a corporate culture in place that didn't make sure the captain and crew were fully trained in what was expected of them, should they encounter a "worst case scenario". And when you see how many cruise lines come under the Carnival umbrella, it's enough to make me want to avoid all their lines until they get their collective corporate act together.

You can't absolve the captain of some responsibility, no matter how you look at it. I would want a captain that if he did "accidentally" slip off the ship, would be fighting to get back on because he cared about what happened to his passengers. But I think it's really going to come down to the parent company and their training and expectations of their employees that will be the big thing here.

 

[mikehn]

Steven Spielberg will find out the truth and we'll watch it on the big screen soon

 

[DCLSecondChance]

But the one thing I haven't been able to discount are the accounts by the passengers.

Before I write this, let me say that I do think it was in fact terrifying for some.

However, having watched some of the unedited videos http://www.youtube.com/user/davesfx I don't see the same amount of confusion and panic that others have claimed. Now for the 300 or so that had to be evacuated by helicopter or sitting on the side of the ship and shimmying down, the waiting seemed to be the most frustrating part.

However in any event, eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable. From my own experience, I couldn't tell you who the captain was on my many cruises or what he looked like. I just don't join in on the piling on of the captain that the rest of the media is doing until the official report on the accident has been issued. From the graphic in the OP, I can only speculate that the captain didn't know the serverity of the damage or that his ship was mortally wounded in the ensuing minutes after the accident. And this is what this was, an unfortunate accident.

 

[shaylahc1]

double post

 

[shaylahc1]

I agree that this was a terrible accident....and I'm another who is not willing to throw the captain under the bus. But my reasons are decidedly different---I believe that human beings, especially under duress (in this case, the captain probably feared for his life) behave in ways that are often predictable and not always the "morally correct" way to behave. I believe what the captain did was human nature--if you believe your life is at risk, you will do whatever it takes to save it. Even if the proper thing to do, the heroic thing to do, is to stand on your ship until every last person is off---when you feel like your life is at stake, you revert back to human nature. Our human instincts drive us to preserve our lives first. So while what the captain did may not have been the "proper" thing, the "moral" thing, the "legal" thing, I believe he was just following his instincts (above all, save yourself....).

I expressed this opinion on another forum and it decidedly unpopular so I'm not expecting much support. But having been around the block a few times myself and experiencing the uglier side of humanity---it really does not surprise me that the captain made the decision he did. Humanity has its dark side---I believe often the way we are taught to behave as responsible adults, and the way adults actually behave (especially when they feel like it's their right to make that choice, whether out of selfishness or feelings of entitlement) are often quite different. I have seen people abuse their children, embezzle money, act out violently towards their spouse, cheat on their spouses, cheat on their taxes, etc, and I promise you every single one of them felt entirely justified and non-apologetic.

Do I believe what the captain did was "wrong"? Yes. Do I believe what he did was predictable given the circumstances? Yes. I believe heroes are just that--people who behave in ways that are NOT expected given the circumstances. I think a captain who stayed on ship to see every person off, despite a risk to his own life, would have acted heroically. When you are in a life or death situation you revert back to human instincts. And human instincts dictate self-preservation above all else

JMH (and undoubtedly) unpopular opinion

 

[pxlbarrel]

I find it odd that the OP disbelieves the media reports but then relies on a media report (National Post) to back up his/her stance.

I still stand by the fact that regardless of whether he abandoned ship before his passengers, such action wouldn't have been required if he hadn't steered the ship into a rock.

I think most of us asked "how could this happen in this day and age?". The answer is ... When you turn off the instruments that were put in place to prevent such things from happening. It doesn't matter if this was done before and done often... It doesn't matter if the corporation turned a blind eye towards such stunts. HE was the Master of the Ship and he alone made the choice to manually steer the ship off course.

You cannot say that this did not happen. Even the National Post says it happened.

 

[lbgraves]

Not even taking into account who is at fault for it happening, the captain is guilty of not handling the situation he was faced with properly. He was the captain of a ship and responsible for its passengers. He is the one who got paid the big bucks to do this and have this responsibility. If there is a fire in a school, teachers are trained to get their students out of the classroom to safety. At our school, the teacher helps the children to climb out the window before being the last one to leave the classroom. The captain of a ship that is sinking has the responsibility to see to it that his subordinates are carrying out the actions that are required to get the passengers to safety. It just goes with the job.

 

[Jenngoofys]

I dont care which side anyone is on the fact is the advance sonar systems that ships have in place are there to avoid these situations. I am also going to say they have warning alarms BEFORE you run into anything!! With this in mind how distracted do you have to be (woman or no woman) to not realize Hey OMG the alarm is going off maybe I should see whats going on!!! I say poor training, lack of judgement, and over all lack of responsibility is what lead to this in the first place. If you put yourself before your passengers maybe you shouldnt have been there in the first place. If for any reason this system was not in place then I blame the company that owns the ship other wise it's all the Captains Fault PERIOD!!!
I sure the heck wouldnt want to fly on a plane where the Captain was not where he should be, and off chatting up some woman. Sky or water there is a reason they have someone to navigate!!! As far as leaving the ship before others that is just a cowards way out, "real men run into the fire while cowards run out!!!"

 

[DCLSecondChance]

I find it odd that the OP disbelieves the media reports but then relies on a media report (National Post) to back up his/her stance.

Because the OP is commenting on the graphic representation of what the Marine AIS has already indicated.

You are innocent until proven guilty.

 

[ranidayz]

And you have never once had an accident? Do you remember being in absolute shock? No you didn't have the 4,000 lives you we responsible for, but not everyone handles shock the same way.

I am just saying I don't join the masses wanting to pile on the captain. I never said I was calling him a hero either.

Ahhhh - but that's what seperates the heros out...those who set the shock aside and step up and those who huddle in the corner. This man's job was to protect the passengers under the best and worst conditions. In the case of an emergency - he has business to alert the authorities and get help and get those people to safety...not in two hours, but within the cruise industry standard of what we've now learned is 30 minutes.

What did he do? Didn't call for help. Told them to go back to their rooms. Ordered dinner. Left.

If your child's class was under attack, would you want that teacher leaving that classroom or protecting your child? It's the same concept. When you're in charge, you pull in together in crisis and you go home and cry later.