does anybody know

[mjc2003]

why BCV has 3 booking categories for their 2 BR's even though there are no views and they are all the same number of points? I can even understand 2 categories (I guess), dedicated and lock-offs, but it's really annoying that you can't even waitlist for one night for a 2 BR and cover all booking categories.

Here is why this is annoying: I am waitlisted for the night of the Nov 19th for a 2 BR. I have a 2 BR dedicated (queen and sleeper) for the 15th-18th. I am waitlisted for the same room for the 19th, which is what we really want, and a lock-off for that night since it's the most common. That ties up both my waitlists. I just called MS, and what do you know...the one booking category I DON'T have is suddenly available for that night; a 2 BR with 2 Queens. So, I booked it. But it takes me calling every other day and some luck. Now I STILL have to waitlist for the 2 BR dedicated (1 Queen/Sofa) in order to stay in my same room.

Seems strange to me.

 

[Chuck S]

Because for some families in a dedicated 2 bedroom, a bed and sleeper in the 2nd bedroom won't work. They are a booking category, because members no-doubt were very disappointed when they arrived expecting a two bedroom with 2 queens and being placed in a queen-sofa room.

So you have 2 bedroom dedicated-2 queens, 2 bedroom dedicated-queen and sofa sleeper, and 2 bedroom lockoff.

Just like you have Near HH and the rest of the resort at OKW.

 

[mjc2003]

Because for some families in a dedicated 2 bedroom, a bed and sleeper in the 2nd bedroom won't work. They are a booking category, because members no-doubt were very disappointed when they arrived expecting a two bedroom with 2 queens and being placed in a queen-sofa room.

So you have 2 bedroom dedicated-2 queens, 2 bedroom dedicated-queen and sofa sleeper, and 2 bedroom lockoff.

Just like you have Near HH and the rest of the resort at OKW.

Then if there is such a premium on the 2nd bed, why not change the points and charge more for those select rooms and less for the others (since you realistically can put more people in a room with 2 queens)? So are you saying they made this a booking category b/c members were arriving and getting upset when they realized they didn't have two beds? Was there a time when it was "you get what you get"?

My thought is that they classify the rooms as the same vis-a-vis points, so you should be able to request the two queens but not be guaranteed. If it's a "better" room, then the points should be adjusted; just like they are for better views, etc...

If people HAVE to have the 2nd bed, it just shows that there is an increased value to these rooms. Since we all know that you cannot put two adults in one of those sleepers, for fear of them never speaking again, then by my accounting these rooms with 2 queens are "premium".

What do I know.

 

[Chuck S]

There are many instances in DVC where booking categories have the same number of required points.

The BCV 2 bedrooms are one example, the OKW near HH category, and the BWV preferred pool/garden view vs. Boardwalk view are other examples.

And no, you can not put more people in a 2 queen room vs a queen/sleeper room. The occupancy limits in the 2 bedroom units are the same, no matter what style of BCV 2 bedroom you book.

There are also people that prefer the queen/sleeper set up over the 2 queen set up.

 

[mjc2003]

There are many instances in DVC where booking categories have the same number of required points.

The BCV 2 bedrooms are one example, the OKW near HH category, and the BWV preferred pool/garden view vs. Boardwalk view are other examples.

And no, you can not put more people in a 2 queen room vs a queen/sleeper room. The occupancy limits in the 2 bedroom units are the same, no matter what style of BCV 2 bedroom you book.

There are also people that prefer the queen/sleeper set up over the 2 queen set up.

But you CAN put more people in a 2 queen room, and still be within the limits. It's basically impossible to put more than 6 adults in a 2 BR without the 2nd queen bed. But you can easily fit 7 adults in a 2 BR with the 2 queens. You cannot put two adults in a sleeper sofa. You can hardly put one, for that matter. So I'm less talking about occupancy limits and more referring to practical limits.
As for people preferring the queen and sleeper, I agree. In this instance, we are those people. My in-laws are taking the 2nd bedroom and don't need 2 beds (but wouldn't care if we had them).

Let me ask you this: When you say, "because members no-doubt were very disappointed when they arrived expecting a two bedroom with 2 queens and being placed in a queen-sofa room", why would they be disappointed?

 

[jlewisinsyr]

But you CAN put more people in a 2 queen room, and still be within the limits. It's basically impossible to put more than 6 adults in a 2 BR without the 2nd queen bed. But you can easily fit 7 adults in a 2 BR with the 2 queens. You cannot put two adults in a sleeper sofa. You can hardly put one, for that matter. So I'm less talking about occupancy limits and more referring to practical limits.
As for people preferring the queen and sleeper, I agree. In this instance, we are those people. My in-laws are taking the 2nd bedroom and don't need 2 beds (but wouldn't care if we had them).

Let me ask you this: When you say, "because members no-doubt were very disappointed when they arrived expecting a two bedroom with 2 queens and being placed in a queen-sofa room", why would they be disappointed?

My brother-in-law and sister-in-law both slept on a sleeper sofa with no issues, so I think you are incorrect about occupancy issues.

Like already stated, there are many times in which the point requirements are the same for different booking categories.

Another great example is at Animal Kingdom Lodge, a 2 bedroom at Jambo house has two bathrooms while all 2 bedrooms in Kidani have 3 bathrooms, but they are the same number of points. A Grand Villa in Jambo house is all one floor and includes a pool table while in Kidani it is a two story room, with no pool table.

You seem to have a lot of energy about this...

 

[Chuck S]

Let me ask you this: When you say, "because members no-doubt were very disappointed when they arrived expecting a two bedroom with 2 queens and being placed in a queen-sofa room", why would they be disappointed?

Because it wasn't what they expected, or what they thought they were booking. Especially when you consider all other DVCs have dedicated two bedroom w/2 queens. They expect the basic DVC system to be the same resort to resort. Just as many are disappointed that all OKW studios have 2 queens and no sofa. It works best for us w/2 queens, but not for others.

And the same for those that were disappointed with their location before they created the near HH booking category for OKW a couple of years ago.

People have different wants and needs for a vacation. The booking category at BCV lets them know at the time of booking if the room will meet their needs. If not, they can look for another resort that will meet their needs.

 

[DebbieB]

Part of the problem is that when BCV starting selling points pre-opening, they did not tell members that most of the dedicated 2 bedrooms had a queen and a sofabed (they claimed it was a "mixup"). So initial members bought based on a dedicated 2 bedroom having 2 queens. So it's only fair that home resort owners have access to reserve the dedicated 2 bedrooms with 2 queens at 11 months. Just as it's only fair for the home resort owners to have first access to the boardwalk views at BWV.

 

[vicki_c]

You seem to have a lot of energy about this...

 

[mjc2003]

My brother-in-law and sister-in-law both slept on a sleeper sofa with no issues, so I think you are incorrect about occupancy issues.

Like already stated, there are many times in which the point requirements are the same for different booking categories.

Another great example is at Animal Kingdom Lodge, a 2 bedroom at Jambo house has two bathrooms while all 2 bedrooms in Kidani have 3 bathrooms, but they are the same number of points. A Grand Villa in Jambo house is all one floor and includes a pool table while in Kidani it is a two story room, with no pool table.

You seem to have a lot of energy about this...

Your brother and sister in law are the exception, not the norm. I can't count how many posts I've read in just the last few months about how difficult it is to go any length of time with 2 adults on a pullout. And I've done it the last two years, by myself, and as a guy who has major back problems and has gone through major back surgery, I can say that these "sleepless sofas" are not a very healthy option.

I don't understand your AK example. Jambo and Kidani are two different resorts. I'm referring to booking categories within one resort.

While I appreciate the various examples at different resorts, this doesn't really mean anything to me. I am talking about specifically BCV, and don't really care how things are done elsewhere.
Yes, I have a lot of energy about this. I find it a bit strange. Three booking categories for the 2 BR's seems to be one too many. I think they should be broken down into dedicated and lock-offs, and people can request what they need with no guarantees.
My original point was that it's absurd that I have two waitlists for 1 night for a 2 BR, and had to call every day regardless to check on it b/c I couldn't cover the 3rd booking category, which naturally is the one that became available. If I need a 2 BR, ANY 2 BR, at BCV for one night, I should be able to cover that with a waitlist, and not have to follow up my waitlist with a daily phone call.

 

[mjc2003]

Part of the problem is that when BCV starting selling points pre-opening, they did not tell members that most of the dedicated 2 bedrooms had a queen and a sofabed (they claimed it was a "mixup"). So initial members bought based on a dedicated 2 bedroom having 2 queens. So it's only fair that home resort owners have access to reserve the dedicated 2 bedrooms with 2 queens at 11 months. Just as it's only fair for the home resort owners to have first access to the boardwalk views at BWV.

So they should correct the "mix up" by making all dedicateds the same. Clearly 2 queens makes the most sense. People who "prefer" the queen and sleeper can just go with a lock off.

 

[mjc2003]

Because it wasn't what they expected, or what they thought they were booking. Especially when you consider all other DVCs have dedicated two bedroom w/2 queens. They expect the basic DVC system to be the same resort to resort. Just as many are disappointed that all OKW studios have 2 queens and no sofa. It works best for us w/2 queens, but not for others.

And the same for those that were disappointed with their location before they created the near HH booking category for OKW a couple of years ago.

People have different wants and needs for a vacation. The booking category at BCV lets them know at the time of booking if the room will meet their needs. If not, they can look for another resort that will meet their needs.

It would be expected if they knew up front that you could only request 2 queens, not be guaranteed 2 queens. As you say, if this is not acceptable they can look for another resort to meet their needs.
As I said above, all dedicateds should have two queens and those "needing" the couch can reserve a lock off. Problem solved. And this would reduce the booking categories to 2.

When I reserved the 2 queen room for one night, I asked MS to make sure to keep my waitlist for the queen/sleeper room b/c that's what we're in the previous 4 nights and want continuity. He laughed, and said,"It's so rare to have somebody who wants to go from two queens to a queen and sofa. It's almost always the other way around". So clearly a majority of owners would be happier with 2 queens.

 

[DenLo]

I don't understand your AK example. Jambo and Kidani are two different resorts. I'm referring to booking categories within one resort.

But Jambo and Kidani are the same AKV resort. There is only only point chart. A lockoff or dedicated 2BR is the same points at Kidani as it is at Jambo.

 

[Chuck S]

It would be expected if they knew up front that you could only request 2 queens, not be guaranteed 2 queens. As you say, if this is not acceptable they can look for another resort to meet their needs.
As I said above, all dedicateds should have two queens and those "needing" the couch can reserve a lock off. Problem solved. And this would reduce the booking categories to 2.

When I reserved the 2 queen room for one night, I asked MS to make sure to keep my waitlist for the queen/sleeper room b/c that's what we're in the previous 4 nights and want continuity. He laughed, and said,"It's so rare to have somebody who wants to go from two queens to a queen and sofa. It's almost always the other way around". So clearly a majority of owners would be happier with 2 queens.

The original intent was for all BCV dedicated 2 bedroom units to have 2 queens. There was a problem, though, in that some rooms were not designed/built properly to accommodate 2 queens, thus the queen/sleeper configuration.

The booking categories are what they are, whether you like them or not, I do not expect that DVC will remove 2Q vs 1Q and sofa from booking category status at BCV. If you truly do not want to move, perhaps you should pay cash for your missing night, if that room type is available for cash.

Just as those not booking early enough may find they need to change rooms because of lack of availability in the Near HH designation at OKW, or any other resort with booking categories.

Possible lack of specific room types at 7 months is a given with DVC. That is why you should purchase your ownership where you primarily want to stay, and make use of the 11 month booking window. That is why people own at multiple resorts. 11 month booking is pretty much your best option, everything else is luck of the draw. It is simply the way the system works.

Oh, and as the previous poster said Jambo House and Kidani ARE technically one resort (AKV) just different buildings of the same resort that constitute booking categories, just as Near HH and standard are booking categories at OKW.

 

[DebbieB]

So they should correct the "mix up" by making all dedicateds the same. Clearly 2 queens makes the most sense. People who "prefer" the queen and sleeper can just go with a lock off.

The rooms are too small to accomodate 2 queens, so they had to put a queen and double sofabed in them. Some of them were larger and could accomodate 2 queens, so they have both configurations. By making it a booking category rather than a request, people know up front what they are getting and can decide if it will accomodate their family/group or if they want to look elsewhere.

 

[mjc2003]

The booking categories are what they are, whether you like them or not, I do not expect that DVC will remove 2Q vs 1Q and sofa from booking category status at BCV. If you truly do not want to move, perhaps you should pay cash for your missing night, if that room type is available for cash.

Possible lack of specific room types at 7 months is a given with DVC. That is why you should purchase your ownership where you primarily want to stay, and make use of the 11 month booking window. That is why people own at multiple resorts. 11 month booking is pretty much your best option, everything else is luck of the draw. It is simply the way the system works.

I never said I didn't want to move. I simply said that it's very frustrating that I have to have 2 waitlists AND have to call every day to check on a 3rd booking category all for one night and all for the same "type" of room.


I purchased my ownership at BCV. We just bought and made our reservations right away. I understand the 11 month philosophy, this simply wasn't an option for this trip.

 

[mjc2003]

The rooms are too small to accomodate 2 queens, so they had to put a queen and double sofabed in them. Some of them were larger and could accomodate 2 queens, so they have both configurations. By making it a booking category rather than a request, people know up front what they are getting and can decide if it will accomodate their family/group or if they want to look elsewhere.

Thanks for the explanation. I was not aware that they had built the rooms too small to accommodate 2 queen beds. This begs the question, how do you build a villa without knowing how much room you need for 2 beds? Seems like one of the first measurements you would consider. Oh well....

 

[Dean]

I never said I didn't want to move. I simply said that it's very frustrating that I have to have 2 waitlists AND have to call every day to check on a 3rd booking category all for one night and all for the same "type" of room.


I purchased my ownership at BCV. We just bought and made our reservations right away. I understand the 11 month philosophy, this simply wasn't an option for this trip.

As noted, they are separate booking categories. what I don't think has been made clear, is ultimately why there are 2 dedicated 2 BR unit types. As I understand it, the original plans were for dedicated and l/o but there were construction issues where the construction company made mistakes in the construction and by the time it was known, only some of the units would accommodate 2 queen beds. That's why the dedicated 2 BR units have pull out queens and the l/o have pull out fulls. I'm sure DVD got some compensation from the construction company. Personally, had I bought BCV with the 2 BR dedicated as a focal point (don't own BCV), I would have made an issue of it. My guess is DVD would have offered to buy back those points and make any owner happy. I doubt they could have defended legal action for those buyers trying to pass off those 2 BR units as 2 queen beds as advertised during much of the sales process.

 

[DebbieB]

DVC is known for some dumb construction mistakes. For example, only 1 set of elevators for a huge building like BWV; the 2 bedroom problem at BCV; the bathroom sink issue in BLT studios. I attended a BWV annual meeting around 2000 and someone brought up the elevator issue and they said there was nothing they could do but they would keep it in mind for future resorts. I say bull to that, they could have found a way to retrofit elevators on the ends, they just didn't want to pay for it. At least they did fix the BLT studios.

Another mistake was not having a second entrance into the master bathroom at OKW; at least they were able to fix that in the second phase (buildings 30 and up).

 

[palaemon]

I wish that DVC would allow you to WL a resort regardless of booking category. Ex.: BLT 1BR July 10-12 and not have to choose SV, LV or TPV. I mean look at AV and AHV, they have 4 booking categories.

I'm not complaining; it's just a wish it was an option.