Doctors speak out about H1N1 VACCINE DANGERS

Oh come on...he had to have been joking...I mean, he WAS joking right??? It causes AGENT ORANGE in people???? What????
He is either a comic genius or seriously loopy...either way I'll be laughing about that one for quite a while!!
It causes agent orange in people....:rotfl2:


I am NOT kidding...she was 1000% behind this!! I try not to be rude to peole but I have known her for many years but I had to tell her that was the dumbest thing I ever heard!! I told her that I was sad that she thought that because she has a 2 yr old and a 2 month old.
 
And I have been a doctor for 25 years, and ALL the 100+ doctors in my department will get the H1N1 as soon as it is available to us.

Thanks, Geoff for doing the heavy lifting on this thread. Sorry I came late to it. And I am amazed at the misinformation and junk science that just goes on and on and on . . . :rolleyes:
Thanks Deb! You were beginning to worry me by your absence. I thought perhaps you were part of this "silent majority" of physicians that we keep hearing about that is trembling in fear over going against the AMA, the CDC, et al over their fears about vaccine safety. Come on, you're among friends here.. you can tell us what you really think about vaccines. They're all one big dangerous fraud, aren't they?!?!? ;)
 
I am NOT kidding...she was 1000% behind this!! I try not to be rude to peole but I have known her for many years but I had to tell her that was the dumbest thing I ever heard!! I told her that I was sad that she thought that because she has a 2 yr old and a 2 month old.
This is part of the whole debunked "H1N1 vaccines contain Squalene" myth. The argument goes that "researchers" think that Squalene in vaccines were responsible for "Gulf War Syndrome" and it is also supposedly in the Agent Orange that was used in Vietnam. Here's a link that Mefordis would be proud to post here: Million TIMES More Squalene In H1N1 Vax Than Caused GWI !! that talks about this.
 
And I have been a doctor for 25 years, and ALL the 100+ doctors in my department will get the H1N1 as soon as it is available to us.

Thanks, Geoff for doing the heavy lifting on this thread. Sorry I came late to it. And I am amazed at the misinformation and junk science that just goes on and on and on . . . :rolleyes:

Glad to hear that you as a Doc had time to talk to 100+ Docs :rolleyes: that you know and it just so happens that all 100 will be getting it. Funny because out the the ones that I have talked with not a one is getting it....One Doc refuses to even order it for his geriatric patients....not to mention all but one nurse I know is not getting it. I still have a call out to a friend who is chief of staff in a Philly Hospital and heads up the ER...to see his take and his boards take on this. Should be interesting.

As I mentioned in the beginning....we will find Docs that wont and ones that will. Same with nurses. I myself feel that there is not enough research to warrant getting it.

A lot of folks are also getting vaccinated due to all the hype when it first surfaced. The media had a frenzy with it...had everyone scarred to death....Lots and lots of misinformation at that time about this virus. Soon it died down and just slight another mention of it. Yet it was still around and people were still getting it. So than the media came back and said....the H1N1 is no different than the reg flu......the CDC also stated this.

so all of a sudden it is a state of Emergency again.....we all must run and get vaccinated or we will get sick and die......that's just as bad as saying if we do get the vaccine we will all get sick and die. And that is where the problem lies.....not enough research has been done on this virus and it's effects on the human body....and not enough on how this vaccine will react short or long term in all ages. And live Viruses have always been an issue....that is why they started years ago making the Flu shots dead viruses...your a Doc ...you should know this.

Are you saying that you are a 100% sure that this Vaccine is safe.....how about all your doc friends.....of course you cant. and that is why we are here chatting about this.

This is clearly a "what if I dont?"...yet "what if I do scenario".on getting this vaccine. We truly just dont know. The researchers have claimed ...they truly just dont know......
 

What I don't understand is why folks find it so easy to distrust the CDC, WHO, every other public health department, the American Lung Association, etc., but are so willing to trust some guy on a cable show, or something posted on some website.
 
What I don't understand is why folks find it so easy to distrust the CDC, WHO, every other public health department, the American Lung Association, etc., but are so willing to trust some guy on a cable show, or something posted on some website.

With me ......in one word...Bureaucracy. Medicine is full of it.

As for listening to the Media and there hype on this subject....not that either.

As for on the boards.....not there either, however like with all info thrown my way I start to do research. That is what led me to asking Docs and Nurses and so on after my 86 y.o roommates Doc said....No way.....

That is what led me to asking friends in the medical profession...Docs, Nurses, Pharm. reps etc....there take on it. Started reading on line.

Anything we get we need to way the good with the bad and decide for ourselves what we want to do. Who we want to believe, how much info is out there....What is the research showing and how long have they done the research....what people are feeling and saying and so on.

To believe one source and follow that, does not make for a good decisions either way.
 
What I don't understand is why folks find it so easy to distrust the CDC, WHO, every other public health department, the American Lung Association, etc., but are so willing to trust some guy on a cable show, or something posted on some website.

Maybe because they choose to focus on "one" negative statement - over thousands and thousands of positive statements? :confused3 It's really kind of hard to tell, but it tends to remind me of the mind set of people who buy all of these "amazing" weight loss "wonder pills" and such that air in the wee hours of the morning on Infomercials.. They normally have some guy standing there in a white lab coat - that claims to be a doctor - and that's good enough for them.. Scary.. :eek:
 
What I don't understand is why folks find it so easy to distrust the CDC, WHO, every other public health department, the American Lung Association, etc., but are so willing to trust some guy on a cable show, or something posted on some website.
Wired magazine (of all places) has a great cover story this month that has anti-vaxxers gnashing their teeth. The author has a theory about your question:
The rejection of hard-won knowledge is by no means a new phenomenon. In 1905, French mathematician and scientist Henri Poincaré said that the willingness to embrace pseudo-science flourished because people “know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether illusion is not more consoling.” Decades later, the astronomer Carl Sagan reached a similar conclusion: Science loses ground to pseudo-science because the latter seems to offer more comfort. “A great many of these belief systems address real human needs that are not being met by our society,” Sagan wrote of certain Americans’ embrace of reincarnation, channeling, and extraterrestrials. “There are unsatisfied medical needs, spiritual needs, and needs for communion with the rest of the human community.”

Looking back over human history, rationality has been the anomaly. Being rational takes work, education, and a sober determination to avoid making hasty inferences, even when they appear to make perfect sense. Much like infectious diseases themselves — beaten back by decades of effort to vaccinate the populace — the irrational lingers just below the surface, waiting for us to let down our guard.

Before smallpox was eradicated with a vaccine, it killed an estimated 500 million people. And just 60 years ago, polio paralyzed 16,000 Americans every year, while rubella caused birth defects and mental retardation in as many as 20,000 newborns. Measles infected 4 million children, killing 3,000 annually, and a bacterium called Haemophilus influenzae type b caused Hib meningitis in more than 15,000 children, leaving many with permanent brain damage. Infant mortality and abbreviated life spans — now regarded as a third world problem — were a first world reality.

Today, because the looming risk of childhood death is out of sight, it is also largely out of mind, leading a growing number of Americans to worry about what is in fact a much lesser risk: the ill effects of vaccines. If your newborn gets pertussis, for example, there is a 1 percent chance that the baby will die of pulmonary hypertension or other complications. The risk of dying from the pertussis vaccine, by contrast, is practically nonexistent — in fact, no study has linked DTaP (the three-in-one immunization that protects against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis) to death in children. Nobody in the pro-vaccine camp asserts that vaccines are risk-free, but the risks are minute in comparison to the alternative.

Still, despite peer-reviewed evidence, many parents ignore the math and agonize about whether to vaccinate. Why? For starters, the human brain has a natural tendency to pattern-match — to ignore the old dictum “correlation does not imply causation” and stubbornly persist in associating proximate phenomena. If two things coexist, the brain often tells us, they must be related. Some parents of autistic children noticed that their child’s condition began to appear shortly after a vaccination. The conclusion: “The vaccine must have caused the autism.” Sounds reasonable, even though, as many scientists have noted, it has long been known that autism and other neurological impairments often become evident at or around the age of 18 to 24 months, which just happens to be the same time children receive multiple vaccinations. Correlation, perhaps. But not causation, as studies have shown.

And if you need a new factoid to support your belief system, it has never been easier to find one. The Internet offers a treasure trove of undifferentiated information, data, research, speculation, half-truths, anecdotes, and conjecture about health and medicine. It is also a democratizing force that tends to undermine authority, cut out the middleman, and empower individuals. In a world where anyone can attend what McCarthy calls the “University of Google,” boning up on immunology before getting your child vaccinated seems like good, responsible parenting. Thanks to the Internet, everyone can be their own medical investigator.
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";34116116]Glad to hear that you as a Doc had time to talk to 100+ Docs :rolleyes: that you know and it just so happens that all 100 will be getting it. Funny because out the the ones that I have talked with not a one is getting it....[/QUOTE]


I don't have to talk to all 100 + docs. I KNOW that our department has over 100 faculty, and YES, we are all getting it.

Actually, all 760 staff physicians and dentists, 480 residents physicians and dentists, 180 fellow physicians, 1,565 nurses, and 4.640 other professional and support staff at my hospital will be getting it.

And how do I know? Because it is mandatory.
 
have you never taken ANY medication to eliviate your symptoms when sick? Have you never taken an antibiotic to fight an infection? Just curious where you draw the line of what should and shouldn't run its course.

Dang! Maybe I should have let this sinus infection run it's course for a few more weeks. Then instead of it turning into just a nasty case of bronchitis I could have one kick hiney case of pneumonia too! Think of the rockin' immune system I would have!


Could either one of you point out where I said that I would NEVER go on an antibiotic or NEVER take medication? That is what I love about these threads. Exaggerate it for your own cause.

If I have a BACTERIAL infection, I seek treatment. But I make darn sure it is bacterial before willingly taking antibiotics and I certainly don't take Tamiflu to lesson some symptoms.

It is very unlikely that anyone in my family would be put on Tamiflu because I can not remember a time that any of us have ever been to the doctor within the first 48 hours of getting sick. I read on these threads constantly about kids waking up with a 101 degree temp and the parent already has an appointment 2 hours later. :confused3 And yes, my kids have had some incredibly high fevers but I don't take them in unless the fever has lasted for days and won't go down or there are other symptoms that seems very out of the ordinary. I just had a friend take her kid to the walk in clinic because he had a 100 degree temp. They screened for strep and it was negative. No blood was drawn and no other tests were performed yet he is now on an antibiotic. :sad2: Why?? And honestly, how can you really think this is right?


I hope you do not end up in the ER or on a ventolator, a women I know did, or would you rather the virus run its course?

Thanks. I certainly hope I don't end up that way either. :confused3 I also hope that my son is safe right now since he is in a car with another mom on the expressway; an expressway that is notorious for lunatics driving too fast and causing accidents. I am not really sure what your point is. Of course I don't want to end up on a vent but the MAJORITY of people getting H1N1 are not ending up that way. Is there a risk? Certainly. But at this point, my son is in more danger on the expressway.
 
I don't have to talk to all 100 + docs. I KNOW that our department has over 100 faculty, and YES, we are all getting it.

Actually, all 760 staff physicians and dentists, 480 residents physicians and dentists, 180 fellow physicians, 1,565 nurses, and 4.640 other professional and support staff at my hospital will be getting it.

And how do I know? Because it is mandatory.

And I have been a doctor for 25 years, and ALL the 100+ doctors in my department will get the H1N1 as soon as it is available to us.

Thanks, Geoff for doing the heavy lifting on this thread. Sorry I came late to it. And I am amazed at the misinformation and junk science that just goes on and on and on . . . :rolleyes:

Your statement was following a conversation of posters Docs saying that they were not getting it.....than you followed with...well I have been a Doc for 25 years and ALL 100+ Docs are getting it....but what you failed to add was the mandatory part :rolleyes:.....now that sure does make a big difference.

they have no choice....that was taken away from them. You conveniently made it sound following the conversation, like they were getting it because they wanted to ...not because they had to.
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";34116116]Glad to hear that you as a Doc had time to talk to 100+ Docs :rolleyes: that you know and it just so happens that all 100 will be getting it. Funny because out the the ones that I have talked with not a one is getting it....One Doc refuses to even order it for his geriatric patients....not to mention all but one nurse I know is not getting it. I still have a call out to a friend who is chief of staff in a Philly Hospital and heads up the ER...to see his take and his boards take on this. Should be interesting.

As I mentioned in the beginning....we will find Docs that wont and ones that will. Same with nurses. I myself feel that there is not enough research to warrant getting it.

A lot of folks are also getting vaccinated due to all the hype when it first surfaced. The media had a frenzy with it...had everyone scarred to death....Lots and lots of misinformation at that time about this virus. Soon it died down and just slight another mention of it. Yet it was still around and people were still getting it. So than the media came back and said....the H1N1 is no different than the reg flu......the CDC also stated this.

so all of a sudden it is a state of Emergency again.....we all must run and get vaccinated or we will get sick and die......that's just as bad as saying if we do get the vaccine we will all get sick and die. And that is where the problem lies.....not enough research has been done on this virus and it's effects on the human body....and not enough on how this vaccine will react short or long term in all ages. And live Viruses have always been an issue....that is why they started years ago making the Flu shots dead viruses...your a Doc ...you should know this.

Are you saying that you are a 100% sure that this Vaccine is safe.....how about all your doc friends.....of course you cant. and that is why we are here chatting about this.

This is clearly a "what if I dont?"...yet "what if I do scenario".on getting this vaccine. We truly just dont know. The researchers have claimed ...they truly just dont know......[/QUOTE]

The difference with H1N1, and the reason I will do whatever it takes to get my kids vaccinated, is that this particular flu strain seems to be causing complications in young, healthy people.

The seasonal flu strains of the tend to impact older and sicker populations. Those people are well aware they need to get a flu shot every year, and they already do. Young, healthy people tend need to know that H1N1 is not your typical, seasonal flu.

Several years ago you may recall there was a severe shortage of the seasonal flu vaccine. At the time all you heard about is that the flu is not particularly dangerous to young, healthy people. That has all changed with H1N1, and it is important for everyone to understand that.
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";34117256]Your statement was following a conversation of posters Docs saying that they were not getting it.....than you followed with...well I have been a Doc for 25 years and ALL 100+ Docs are getting it....but what you failed to add was the mandatory part :rolleyes:.....now that sure does make a big difference.

they have no choice....that was taken away from them. You conveniently made it sound following the conversation, like they were getting it because they wanted to ...not because they had to.[/QUOTE]

Well I suppose that if there was a giant outcry by staff because it was mandatory, Deb would have mentioned it.

I was in the ER last week with my FIL and I overheard the staff talking about their H1N1 vaccination. The ones I heard could not wait to get their shots.
 
True. Not a single physician has spoken up against the vaccine here, and as you are aware, we physicians are not exactly reticent about speaking up. :thumbsup2
 
Probably for the same reason that people are more concerned about the MMR or the DPT vaccines than the actual diseases they prevent. I don't understand it either, but then, I've actually seen patients with measles. I've seen congenital rubella. I've seen pertussis. I've seen meningococcal menigitis. I've seen severe Hemophilus influenza disease, including epiglottis and menigitis with subdural empyema. I have co-workers in wheelchairs because they had paralytic polio.


And yes, I've seen many many kids with autism and other developmental disabilties as well. And someday with real science and reasearch, hopefully those disorders will be gone, much like the preventable infectious disesases are now.

Hey, wouldn't it be ironic if someone discovered a vaccine for autism? :idea:

Oh, and the acute dystonic reaction, while frightening, is easily treatable. IV Benadryl. I've done it, and it works like a charm.

THAT is a GREAT question!! I bet if they came out with a vaccine for autism people would be all over it....I do not think vaccines cause autism (my opinion)
 
I can personally debunk the claim that 100% of people who take high doses of Vitamin D stay healthy. Since last November, I have been sick constantly. After getting a physical/bloodwork to rule out some type of systemic problem, I started taking high doses of Vitamin D after reading the articles about it. I knew I didn't want to take it long term because it is fat-soluble and long-term use could be problematic, but I thought I would give it a try because I was tired of being sick. After four months of taking it, guess what? I am still getting sick. So you can at least lower the percentage of people taking Vitamin D who don't get sick from 100% to 99%. I am sure, however, that I am not the only one not cured by this miracle capsule.

To each his own, but I got the H1N1 vaccine, and I was thankful to get it (I have asthma). I am especially delighted that this vaccine was designed to exactly match the current strain--the seasonal shots are designed based on what strains are predicted to be dominant. Will all the people who get the H1N1 shot have 100% immunity? No. But this shot will save lives and reduce the severity of the virus, and I am glad my kids and I have gotten it.

This flu is not normal; it has been hitting younger people much hard than normal flu. If there are some who have negative opinions about vaccines, that's fine, but decisions should be based on facts, not faulty medical claims and undocumented theories.
 
Could either one of you point out where I said that I would NEVER go on an antibiotic or NEVER take medication? That is what I love about these threads. Exaggerate it for your own cause.

What I love about these threads is that posters only read what is they want and not actually see what was said :)
I never stated that you said you wouldn't but instead I asked if you ever have taken any medication in order to help or prevent an illness from running its course. I guess your answer is that you would take an antibiotic, but you never mentioned any other meds like cough suppressants, decongestants, antihistamines, etc.
IMO, what I asked is a valid response to your post, where you question what ever happened to letting things run their course. If you have ever taken cough medicine for a common cold and you not opposed to taking an antibiotic instead of letting a bacterial infection run its course, or benadryl to control allergies it seems a bit hypocritical to say let a viral influenza infection run its without some kind of relief, like Tamiflu.
 
True. Not a single physician has spoken up against the vaccine here, and as you are aware, we physicians are not exactly reticent about speaking up. :thumbsup2

All I can tell you is out here in San Diego is where I am getting the brakes. All the docs as mentioned that I talked with are passing. I also have mentioned about the Doc I know in Philly....he is chief of staff in a huge Philly Hospital. If it is mandatory he will let me know, he will also let me know how he and his colleagues feel about the vaccine.

I also put a call out today to the Doc a few houses down the street who is a Internist...and across the street who is one of the leading Heart surgeons in the US. I am still doing my research. What I find I am posting....it is up to the reader to decide what they want to do.

I keep waiting to run across a doc that I know that says....yes get it....but that has not been the case. Although I have no doubt they are out there. I also have an appointment with my boys Ped to discuss it with him. Will see what he has to say also and report back.
 
Thanks. I certainly hope I don't end up that way either. :confused3 I also hope that my son is safe right now since he is in a car with another mom on the expressway; an expressway that is notorious for lunatics driving too fast and causing accidents. I am not really sure what your point is. Of course I don't want to end up on a vent but the MAJORITY of people getting H1N1 are not ending up that way. Is there a risk? Certainly. But at this point, my son is in more danger on the expressway.

I'm guessing too that when your son gets into a car you make him wear a seat belt? Because while the vast majority of people who get onto that expressway every day will make it home with out a scratch, on the off chance there is an accident I imagine you want him to have that extra bit of proven protection the seat belt provides.
For a lot of us vaccines are seen in the same light. Yes, if allowed to run it's course a virus like the flu would likely do no harm to the majority of us and our kids, but vaccines offer that extra bit of protection just in case we are the unlucky ones on the "influenza" expressway.
In fact I remember when I was a teenager and all of a sudden people started questioning the safety of seat belts. Something about how they could cause abdominal trauma in minor accidents. I remember my parents debating with one of the neighbors about it. The thought of seat belts being dangerous seems just down right silly now...and I'm glad even before it was law I had parents who refused to even start the car if we weren't buckled.
 












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