Do you vacation when you have bills?

[tlbwriter]

While I understand your position - and it is true that you are not breaking any law as long as you are making agreed payments on time - I can not even fathom not paying down the debt asap. I can not imagine having to indulge myself so badly that I would be ok with continuing to pay a high interest rate on the money. I would want that compounding interest gone and gone yesterday. Again , for me, it would just be immoral to let the interest continue rather than pay down the debt.

Why would you assume the interest is compounding? And why do you feel it is immoral to pay interest to someone who quite clearly WANTS your interest? I can see why you would not want to do it. I can see why you would find it foolish, wasteful, immature, etc. But I do not understand why you consider it a moral issue to give someone this agreed-on business.

 

[talulabelle]

For me, it depends on what the debt is. Credit card debt? No way, that needs to be paid. (We don't carry balances on our credit cards, and if we needed to charge something in an emergency and couldn't transfer money from savings to pay it, we would definitely be funneling most if not all of our "fun" money towards paying it off until it was gone.)

Now, debts I have arrangements to pay already? Car loans, mortgage, even medical bills that I've made payment arrangements on? Those are being dealt with in a way that is agreeable to both me and the entity I owe money to, so I wouldn't count those as "pay it off before you go on vacation" debts.

But if I was five or ten grand in credit card debt like some Americans are? There's no way I'd be spending $3k on a Disney vacation.

Op said she had credit card bills and medical bills. I too vacation while I still have a mortgage. Going on vacation does not effect that arrangement. Going on vacation does cost you much more in the long run however if you have credit card interest building up because you didn't use the money to pay down the debt.

OP also updated that she decided to put Disney off for a a year or two and pay down the bills.

 

[luvsJack]

While I understand your position - and it is true that you are not breaking any law as long as you are making agreed payments on time - I can not even fathom not paying down the debt asap. I can not imagine having to indulge myself so badly that I would be ok with continuing to pay a high interest rate on the money. I would want that compounding interest gone and gone yesterday. Again , for me, it would just be immoral to let the interest continue rather than pay down the debt.

Its important to you to pay any and all debt as quickly as possible. You do not want to pay any interest or as little as possible. Ok, great, good.

Its important to me to pay what I owe in a timely manner, as I agreed or a bit quicker. BUT its also just as important that I enjoy my children while they are young, my life while I am healthy, my time while I have it. To me that is my balance. and YES it all includes going to Disney, going to the beach, going to the fair, etc. etc. etc. Your balance may be much different.

That doesn't make one right and one wrong and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with morals.

 

[talulabelle]

Why would you assume the interest is compounding? And why do you feel it is immoral to pay interest to someone who quite clearly WANTS your interest? I can see why you would not want to do it. I can see why you would find it foolish, wasteful, immature, etc. But I do not understand why you consider it a moral issue to give someone this agreed-on business.

Well, to me it is a sin to be purposefully wasteful. To do something stupid when I have the God given sense to know better is a sin as well. To be so self absorbed and self indulgent to spend on a vacation I can't truly afford, is sinful. Yes, the cc company WANTS my interest, but the devil also wants my soul, and I'm not giving that up either. I'm not going to "do the cc company a favor" and continue to pay them ridiculous rates when I could instead go with out a luxury and pay down the debt. I guess, in the instance of owing the cc company rathe than an individual, it is more of a sin against myself and my family than toward the cc company, but it would still be sinful to me.

 

[luvsJack]

In my opinion - when you owe money, whether it be to a corporation, a bank or an individual - it is your duty to pay them that money when you have it.Not to get some money, and say, "well, I want to continue to have a little fun, so I will use the money for me and pay you later when I feel like it".

My friend has a house she rents out and the tenent was way over due with rent and was always singing the blues about how she didn't have money. My friend was very understanding and patient with her and would let her have extra time. So she called the house one day when the rent went unpaid for yet another month and the teenage son of the tenent answered. He said they didn't have the money, but his mom would have to get pack to her when she got back from a trip to England to visit a friend. My friend said "I think I know where my rent money went this month" See, to the tenent, they were "maintaining a standard of living" while not "adding to their debt" as they paid cash for the vacation....but that was money that was owed to my friend. She could have been investing the money due her and making a profit, but was not allowed to as the tenant cared more about herself. What if my friend was as irresponsible with money and was counting on it to pay a mortgage? The tenant was wrong and selfish to act like the money was her own.

To me it is just immoral to continue to use money like it is yours when you really owe it to another, and it doesn't matter if it is a bank or a person. It is just wrong.

Of course, this is why I live debt free, and many others don't.

uhhh. I don't pay "when I feel like it", I pay as its due and usually before its due. I don't skip payments, make late payments or anything else. I usually pay ahead and more than what is due. Just because someone is not throwing every dime they have at debt does not mean they are skipping payments.

I certainly never insinuated that I would not make my payments and use the cash for a trip! I said, if I was able to continue making all monthly payments plus whatever extra I budgeted to paying off AND pay for the trip in cash. So if I have budgeted to pay out $1500 every month to pay down debt and I can continue to pay that PLUS save the $2000 for the Disney trip--I would. Would that $2000 help to pay the debt down a little faster? Yes. But, I am not doing anything wrong by using it elsewhere.

 

[bellarella]

Well, to me it is a sin to be purposefully wasteful. To do something stupid when I have the God given sense to know better is a sin as well. To be so self absorbed and self indulgent to spend on a vacation I can't truly afford, is sinful. Yes, the cc company WANTS my interest, but the devil also wants my soul, and I'm not giving that up either. I'm not going to "do the cc company a favor" and continue to pay them ridiculous rates when I could instead go with out a luxury and pay down the debt. I guess, in the instance of owing the cc company rathe than an individual, it is more of a sin against myself and my family than toward the cc company, but it would still be sinful to me.

Wait -- didn't you just say that you have gone on vacation with a mortgage?

 

[luvsJack]

And that depends on how you figure "adding to debt" I don't know about your budget, but have ONE balance sheet and ONE net worth, I can use income to pay bills or do something else. There isn't a magic "credit card salary." If I do something else with it - I am adding to my debt - particularly if that 'something' doesn't result in a 'real' asset (like a car or a house). So even if I pay cash for a vacation, if I could be paying down debt with that, I think I'm using debt.

That is how you see it, I don't. If I am paying my debt down--as in monthly amount due plus X% more toward the principle AND I can also pay for a trip in cash without making that debt increase, then I am not increasing my debt. If I decide to go on a trip, so for 6 months I don't pay the % extra and the interest and such continue to add up, then I would be adding to my debt.

I am in NO way saying that anyone should go on a trip and stop paying on their debt or paying down their debt. Its an AND situation not EITHER/OR.



Everything that we are debating here is totally a personal decision. Every one has to do what is right by their family and their standard of living and what they feel is right or wrong for them. As long as everyone here is paying what they owe in some form or fashion and no one is having to foot the bill for them, then there really isn't a wrong answer.

 

[ccgirl]

Wait -- didn't you just say that you have gone on vacation with a mortgage?

That is exactly what she said, which makes it quite hypocrital and, in her own words, a sin. Not sure what religion carrying a debt is a sin but since we can't discuss religion on these boards I won't go into that.

How is going on a vacation with a mortgage (in other words paying interest to a bank) any different than credit card or car payments? I get it that the credit cards are not secured. But...to say someone is immoral for vacationing with the credit card and car debt while you have a mortgage is quite hypocritical and self righteous.

The bottom line, tomorrow is not a given it is a gift. I go to WDW now because my children are only young once and I want to see it thru their eyes. What if, God forbid, something were to happen to one of them or to my DH or myself before we took that trip we always wanted? Personally, I would than have regrets. However, I am not going to judge anyone or call them immoral if they would rather pay down their debt. Time to get off the high horse.

 

[tlbwriter]

Well, to me it is a sin to be purposefully wasteful. To do something stupid when I have the God given sense to know better is a sin as well. To be so self absorbed and self indulgent to spend on a vacation I can't truly afford, is sinful. Yes, the cc company WANTS my interest, but the devil also wants my soul, and I'm not giving that up either. I'm not going to "do the cc company a favor" and continue to pay them ridiculous rates when I could instead go with out a luxury and pay down the debt. I guess, in the instance of owing the cc company rathe than an individual, it is more of a sin against myself and my family than toward the cc company, but it would still be sinful to me.

So it's only CC debt you feel is immoral? As I said earlier, you are assuming I was talking about CC debt with compounding interest. But there are other types of debt. And as others have pointed out, you don't seem to have the same issue with other debt, such as a mortgage. Why is CC debt worse?

 

[crisi]

That is how you see it, I don't. If I am paying my debt down--as in monthly amount due plus X% more toward the principle AND I can also pay for a trip in cash without making that debt increase, then I am not increasing my debt. If I decide to go on a trip, so for 6 months I don't pay the % extra and the interest and such continue to add up, then I would be adding to my debt.

I am in NO way saying that anyone should go on a trip and stop paying on their debt or paying down their debt. Its an AND situation not EITHER/OR.



Everything that we are debating here is totally a personal decision. Every one has to do what is right by their family and their standard of living and what they feel is right or wrong for them. As long as everyone here is paying what they owe in some form or fashion and no one is having to foot the bill for them, then there really isn't a wrong answer.

yep, that's what I said, "it depends on how YOU define it." I'm not saying my way is RIGHT, but when I take a trip with existing short term liabilities, I don't consider myself "paying for it with cash" even if the trip didn't go on a credit card. I don't consider paying for a Starbuck's Latte "buying it with cash" if I have short term liabilities I'm not paying.

 

[luvsJack]

yep, that's what I said, "it depends on how YOU define it." I'm not saying my way is RIGHT, but when I take a trip with existing short term liabilities, I don't consider myself "paying for it with cash" even if the trip didn't go on a credit card. I don't consider paying for a Starbuck's Latte "buying it with cash" if I have short term liabilities I'm not paying.

Differences! Its what makes the world go 'round!

 

[mrodgers]

In my opinion - when you owe money, whether it be to a corporation, a bank or an individual - it is your duty to pay them that money when you have it.Not to get some money, and say, "well, I want to continue to have a little fun, so I will use the money for me and pay you later when I feel like it".

There's a little more to it than just owing a debt. How the agreement to paying the debt falls into play as well.

If I lend you $100 and you say you'll pay me back next week, then the next week comes and when I ask for my $100, you say you don't have it, but then show me the nice new watch you just bought this morning shopping, that is a problem. Most debts that are representative of your statement above though have an agreement to how it is paid back. The difference in the scenario with the $100 and a loan debt is, you agree to pay the debt back in $500 payments each month. You can still have the debt, but you are paying it back within the agreement is different than just saying you have debt.


My opinion, as well as my current situation, is, I bust my rear end every day of the week and have for years and years and years. I've been married for 13 years now. I have debt that has built up having my wife raise our children to school age. Now, she is back to work, that debt is now being paid down (under the agreed terms, whether it be by loan payment or the credit card payment) and by golly, I'm freakin tired! I'm worn out and burned out from working non stop for the past nearly decade and a half without a break. We are now paying those debts down, my wife makes some money now and we were able to take some of her money and take a vacation, a much needed vacation from working for over a decade with no rest. And by golly, we took it! It wasn't debt added. It wasn't even money taken away from debt as we now have a plan for paying it off with her paycheck. We took the tax return money that previously would have just been used to catch us up on payments and took a much needed break before the stress killed me.

Yes, stress kills. Stress is ultimately what killed my father. Working without having a little down time and having financial problems is extremely stressful. I wanted a break and I took it.

Now next year, I will take another vacation. As we pay more of the debt down, I expect a bonus that I haven't seen since about 1997, and will use that for vacation. The tax return money will be put towards the debt next year.

There's a difference between having debt and having no money. I have debt because I had no money. Now we are ok with the money, thus the debt is getting paid, according to payment agreement. I'm not going to wait until my kids are 34 years old before I take a family vacation with them. Things were different when we were in the "don't have the money" situation, but we are no longer in that. You all know the saying, "all work and no play......." Have to have some play for some stress relief with your time or else one might just end up like my father at 43 years old.

 

[disneydreamersx4]

good for you! That must have been really hard to not have a vacation for so many years. Stress can make you sick and it's a good thing you have learned to take a little R&R. Sorry about your dad.

 

[talulabelle]

So it's only CC debt you feel is immoral? As I said earlier, you are assuming I was talking about CC debt with compounding interest. But there are other types of debt. And as others have pointed out, you don't seem to have the same issue with other debt, such as a mortgage. Why is CC debt worse?

Yes to everyone who questioned it. I have a mortgage. In fact, I could pay off my mortgage now, but I don't because it makes better financial sense to have a tax write off. I have an agreement with the bank to pay what I owe them plus interest, and going on vacation with extra cash does not affect the agreement I have with them nor my ability to pay it and my payments don't keep compounding or getting higher because I didn't pay it down. I am certainly not dipping into money that could go toward paying off my very light mortgage. I still have that money sitting there.

And yes, credit card debt is a whole different monster. And if anyone can't see this or understand why , then that explains why so many Americans are in credit card debt. People buy a sofa for $2000 and end up paying $5000 for it in the long run (all while making their yearly pilgrimages to Disney) and still don't get it.

And no I wasn't being hypocritical. I said from the beginning, debt outside of my mortgage. Yes it is debt, but it is debt I carry for financial reason to benenfit my family not cause them more grief in the long run.

 

[sammiwa]

So, if I buy a couch with 0% financing, is it still immoral for me to go on vacation? If I have the money in the bank and CAN pay it off, but choose not to for "financial reasons" is that ok in your world? Or is all debt outside of a mortgage immoral?

 

[disykat]

Why would you assume the interest is compounding? And why do you feel it is immoral to pay interest to someone who quite clearly WANTS your interest? I can see why you would not want to do it. I can see why you would find it foolish, wasteful, immature, etc. But I do not understand why you consider it a moral issue to give someone this agreed-on business.

Why do you (collective "you" to all who are having this issue) have such a problem with someone describing her version of right and wrong using the term "moral?" It is simply her opinion.

 

[Planogirl]

Yes to everyone who questioned it. I have a mortgage. In fact, I could pay off my mortgage now, but I don't because it makes better financial sense to have a tax write off. I have an agreement with the bank to pay what I owe them plus interest, and going on vacation with extra cash does not affect the agreement I have with them nor my ability to pay it and my payments don't keep compounding or getting higher because I didn't pay it down. I am certainly not dipping into money that could go toward paying off my very light mortgage. I still have that money sitting there.

And yes, credit card debt is a whole different monster. And if anyone can't see this or understand why , then that explains why so many Americans are in credit card debt. People buy a sofa for $2000 and end up paying $5000 for it in the long run (all while making their yearly pilgrimages to Disney) and still don't get it.

And no I wasn't being hypocritical. I said from the beginning, debt outside of my mortgage. Yes it is debt, but it is debt I carry for financial reason to benenfit my family not cause them more grief in the long run.

People every day go into credit card debt and then cheerfully pay it off. I see nothing immoral about that if that works for them.

Not all debt is a debt that compounds interest. Besides mortgages there are debts that have agreed upon payments and terms and if people choose to follow those terms I see nothing wrong with that. It's not the same as not paying debts which might be seen as truly immoral.

 

[Planogirl]

Why do you (collective "you" to all who are having this issue) have such a problem with someone describing her version of right and wrong using the term "moral?" It is simply her opinion.

I think that telling others what is immoral is a bit judgmental. We all have our own ideas of what constitutes morality and telling others that what they do is immoral seems a bit high-handed.

JMO.

 

[smidgy]

Why would you assume the interest is compounding? And why do you feel it is immoral to pay interest to someone who quite clearly WANTS your interest? I can see why you would not want to do it. I can see why you would find it foolish, wasteful, immature, etc. But I do not understand why you consider it a moral issue to give someone this agreed-on business.

Its important to you to pay any and all debt as quickly as possible. You do not want to pay any interest or as little as possible. Ok, great, good.

Its important to me to pay what I owe in a timely manner, as I agreed or a bit quicker. BUT its also just as important that I enjoy my children while they are young, my life while I am healthy, my time while I have it. To me that is my balance. and YES it all includes going to Disney, going to the beach, going to the fair, etc. etc. etc. Your balance may be much different.

That doesn't make one right and one wrong and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with morals.

I think that telling others what is immoral is a bit judgmental. We all have our own ideas of what constitutes morality and telling others that what they do is immoral seems a bit high-handed.

JMO.

 

[*Meagan*]

hmmm...interesting turn of events here.

I was a foolish teenager/young adult with credit cards and Im paying the price now and in no way does that make me a bad person. I made a mistake. I had a problem. I realized it.I fixed it. I haven't had a credit card in over 4 years and I pay cash for everything. It is hard I admit but in no way does having a credit card and/or credit card debt make me immoral.


And the money I earned; working, busting tail all day, isnt mine? I work 3 jobs for my hard earned money. It is mine, the check is in my name. And I understand that yes I may owe it to American Express and I pay them. But that money is and was my money to begin with.