Do you think this could happen with DVC

[lovwdwalot]

Here is a link to a story I read online in the Orlando Sentinel newspaper today about Fairfield resorts and how a couple of their members are suing Fairfield because they could never book at their home resort, and it made me wonder if this could happen with DVC.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...926.story?coll=orl-business-headlines-tourism

 

[DebbieB]

I don't think I've heard of any DVC members who could not get a reservation at 11 months at their home resort with the exception of maybe New Years Eve.

 

[lovwdwalot]

This is just a thought, Lets say DVC becomes to big with so many members that at some point you could never stay at your home resort.Could this happen?

 

[Dean]

Yes and no. All of DVC's rooms are in the system and one does have the 4 month home resort priority. As well as DVC's sales staff is usually very appropriate and honest. Remember that with many Bluegreen and Fairfield resorts, only a few units for peak times may be in the system. But a larger number of non peak weeks will be in. That creates a lot of competition. Actually Club Intrawest is likely the worst as they do not have a home resort priority. And these people were trying to use short notice time for a weekend it sounds like.

I could see DVC having to put in a minimum stay just to allow members to get a block of days together. I could see someone suing for other reasons. From what I know, it probably came very close to fruition toward the end of the century over using 2000 points in 1999 and whether one got tickets with the borrowed points. And I could see it happening over a number of other issues. Most center around the hot topic items on this board. The other would be fiduciary responsibility of the BOD and who's interest they are looking out for. But being successful is another matter as Disney has a bank of good lawyers. IMO, the larger risk for DVC would be through Tallahassee and the state regulators.

BTW, I know of the guy from Albertville, AL as I grew up in the area and also married a girl from the area. I predict FF will buy them off to make it go away.

 

[lovwdwalot]

Dean at what point would disney stop selling DVC because of having too many members? Is there a bar that they would use that would tell them that they are coming close to over load with members and resort rooms in the DVC system.

 

[joepoe]

Dean at what point would disney stop selling DVC because of having too many members? Is there a bar that they would use that would tell them that they are coming close to over load with members and resort rooms in the DVC system.

They do not over-sell resorts, so this does not happen.

 

[Dean]

Dean at what point would disney stop selling DVC because of having too many members? Is there a bar that they would use that would tell them that they are coming close to over load with members and resort rooms in the DVC system.

I agree, they do not oversell the points for the total needed for the year. However, a disproportionate number of members are trying to reserve some times more than others. HH summer is the prime example.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Dean at what point would disney stop selling DVC because of having too many members? Is there a bar that they would use that would tell them that they are coming close to over load with members and resort rooms in the DVC system.

I'm not Dean, but here's my answer...

There is a direct relationship between DVC member inventory and DVC member points.

It's easy to understand with a conventional weekly timeshare resort. Let's suppose a given resort has 100 identical 2-bedroom condos. Let's suppose that the timeshare resort has "floating weeks" -- there are 52 weeks in each calendar year, so each unit can be occupied 51 weeks, with 1 week retained for maintenance. Thus, the resort developer can sell 5,100 floating weeks. If the developer tried to sell more than 5,100 weeks, the developer would be breaking the law. In fact, each owner gets a deed for a specific condo, tied to a specific week (even though the actual use is floating). That condo/week combo cannot be on more than one deed.

In theory, every owner can book a week -- but it may not be the week that the owner wants. And let's suppose that some of the condos sit empty in January and February. As the year continues, owners call to make reservations for that year. At some point, owners will be told that all weeks have been booked, and they're out of luck.

DVC is more complicated -- with point charts that reflect dfferent condo sizes and different demand seasons -- but the idea is the same. Disney Vacation Development (DVD) can't and won't sell more capacity than is available. Our deeds are all tied to a specific real estate interest, expressed as a percetage of a "unit" (which does not necessarily equate to DVC villa). It's more abstract, but, as with conventional timeshares, the deeds can't add up to more than is physically available.

So, to answer the question, DVC can only sell points tied to actual declared inventory. If construction falls behind sales, DVD can pre-sell points that cannot be used until the corresponding real estate is "declared into the condominium."

And, as with conventional timeshares, there's no guarantee that members can use their points. The system works very well for those of us who plan ahead. But there are probably a fair number of points every year that expire without being used or banked (which is good for the rest of us).

 

[rocketriter]

I actually had a scare along these lines last week. I was calling to make a day-by-day for a 2-bedroom at BCV during high season next summer. I had about half of the trip booked when, one morning, I called and was told that there were no more 2-bedrooms for BCV available in the system. I protested that I was calling at 10 AM on the first day of availability and it was impossible that everything was booked. The CM was pleasant but firm: there was nothing for me to book. And then...

...and then she started making "Wait just a moment" noises. She put me on hold for a moment, then came back and said she could book me after all. When I asked what had happened, she explained that she had typed July 2005 into the database rather than July 2006. As I was calling in August 2005, well, golly, nothing at all showed as being available. Hey, I've made errors myself that were dumber than this. But I really did think for a moment that Disney had drasticaly oversold the BCV.

 

[gjw007]

I would like to know more information on Fairfield's booking system before I can make a reasonable comment about the lawsuit. I have an RCI Points resort where at 13 months, I can tell them that I'm using my deeded week with no charge. At 12 months, I can make reservations to my home resort but there is a charge. I believe at 11 months, everybody can make a reservation at the resort (it might be 10 month, I'll have to check to verify). Either way, there is a short priority period although it is a year in advance for my home resort and deeded week. My other timeshare, Orange Lake, is traditional where I have a week every year without doing any work unless I make a decision to bank the week and try to exchange for another week (like I did this year, bank week 51 so that I could stay at VWL - I'll use the banked week in the spring). The RCI Points does give owners a slight priority to book into the home resort. My question for Fairfield is whether there is a priority period for them as well. When I stayed at Vistana Resort and took the tour, I believe that within Hilton's system they gave you a priority but at the 8 month mark, it was open to all. I'm assuming in the lawsuit that it is about make the reservations internally through Fairfield's system. Does it have a priority period for booking reservations and if so, is is a reasonable period of time? It is hard to really comment on what it means to DVC without understanding how Fairfield's system operates.

 

[Beach_Bound9]

This is just a thought, Lets say DVC becomes to big with so many members that at some point you could never stay at your home resort.Could this happen?

I don't know how, there are a finite number of members at your home resort who can use the 11 month window to make reservations. How would that be impacted by DVC growth? Now I could see this happening at the 7 month window for the more desirable resorts, especially during prime times. For example Vero beach fills up for Spring break faster than any of the other DVC resorts. Without the 11 month window, reservations during that prime time may not be available.

 

[bicker]

Precisely, and we all should know, having read our timeshare documents, that the ability to obtain reservations anyplace other than our home resort is a privilege, not a right, and the privilege can be changed at any time. Home resort reservation is a basic aspect of the timeshare.

 

[JimC]

DVC is restricted on the number of points it can sell just as a weeks based system is restricted to selling only 52 weeks (51 if they reserve one for maintenance) for each unit. I thought that was part of the Florida timeshare laws. They can't oversell like the airlines do with their seats.

Did I understand the article in the OP to read that Fairfield has a mixed weeks and points program? How does that work? I would think that could be a nightmare to administer.

 

[crisi]

They also have the lottery system to fall back on if things get ridiculous. But since they didn't need to use it for New Years 2000, I don't know if they ever will. And they have the ability to rebalance points. If those first two weeks in December ever become a nightmare, we might see part of May get less expensive.

 

[gppnj]

DVC is more complicated -- with point charts that reflect dfferent condo sizes and different demand seasons -- but the idea is the same. Disney Vacation Development (DVD) can't and won't sell more capacity than is available. Our deeds are all tied to a specific real estate interest, expressed as a percetage of a "unit" (which does not necessarily equate to DVC villa). It's more abstract, but, as with conventional timeshares, the deeds can't add up to more than is physically available.

If I'm not mistaken, I think that's what got Jim Bakker in trouble. He was selling more timeshares than there were units.

 

[Dean]

Did I understand the article in the OP to read that Fairfield has a mixed weeks and points program? How does that work? I would think that could be a nightmare to administer.

Some resorts are that way. Maybe Lisa P. can shed more light on this subject. But could it be any worse than administering a timeshare where you can reserve day by day and have to call day by day to reserve.

They also have the lottery system to fall back on if things get ridiculous. But since they didn't need to use it for New Years 2000, I don't know if they ever will. And they have the ability to rebalance points. If those first two weeks in December ever become a nightmare, we might see part of May get less expensive.

They've already tried the lottery and special seasons preference list and found them to be more trouble than they were worth. But if things get out of hand, it is always an option.

 

[dvc_john]

Actually, I believe Disney undersells DVC. As I understand it, the number of points sold for a 2-br lock-off is based on the 2-br point structure, since in an extreme case scenario, they could always be used as a 2-br. However they are frequently reserved seperately as a 1-br and a studio, requiring more points than a 2-br. At OKW, this difference would range from 2 points to 9 points per night. A lock-off consistently used as 2 units over the course of a year would result in an undersell of over 1000 points.

 

[JimC]

Some resorts are that way. Maybe Lisa P. can shed more light on this subject. But could it be any worse than administering a timeshare where you can reserve day by day and have to call day by day to reserve.
...

Good point Dean. Still not sure why they don't simply permit booking at the front end of the vacation -- that would eliminate the day-to-day reservations. I've never done day-to-day -- wastes too much of my time and the CMs, IMO.

 

[CarolMN]

Good point Dean. Still not sure why they don't simply permit booking at the front end of the vacation -- that would eliminate the day-to-day reservations. I've never done day-to-day -- wastes too much of my time and the CMs, IMO.

I'd HATE that! It would mean that anyone whose vacation started before mine would have first crack at the dates/room type I want. It would be worse than the 90 + 10 ADR thing Disney just implemented for dining reservations. At least for that, Disney only makes a percentage of the times available to the guests who are allowed to book that way.

Perhaps you've never wanted a standard view room at the BWV during early December. If you don't do day by day, you can end up missing out. One year I forgot to call one day and when I did (mid-morning) the CM told me I got the last standard view 1 bedroom for that day.

Those who don't want to call day by day don't have to - they can make one call for their whole vacation - they just do it 11 or 7 months from the check out day.

IMHO, every member should have the same chance to reserve a particular room type/date at his/her home resort. Booking at the "front end" doesn't meet that criteria.

Best wishes-

 

[Beach_Bound9]

Good point Dean. Still not sure why they don't simply permit booking at the front end of the vacation -- that would eliminate the day-to-day reservations. I've never done day-to-day -- wastes too much of my time and the CMs, IMO.

I haven't either. But those gaming the system could game the day to day. Someone with lots of points could schedule a much longer vacation giving them a reservation advantage. They could even cancel part of the length of their vacation well after accomplishing thier choice reservation.

I do think the original poster has a point in DVC gowing too large, however the disadvantage cited of not bing able to get a home resort reservation doesn't seem realistic.

I'd like to see a California DVC and another off site DVC and then DVC stop growing. Probably won't happen, but that is my preference. I think the real dissadvantage for continuing growth is the bargaining clout for favorable point requirements for non-DVC resorts and cruises. The more DVC rooms that are available on site, or supply of rooms and demand not growing from other timeshare owners trying to "trade-in" the less favorable those alternative point requirements will be.