Do you think I am wrong?

[Muushka]

This is very true of my students at school. A phone is the #1 teenaged status symbol. I'm not sure it's not MORE IMPORTANT than cars to some kids. It's definitely more important than clothing.

How about a roof over your head? Is it me? Have I lost touch with reality?

Having to live at different people's houses or with family that does not want you there is no way for a child to live. And if a cell makes everything all right, then this is not a world that I can understand.

Not a slam to you MrsPete, you are voicing what others have said. I don't have children of my own. So I am really asking if having a cell would give a child more comfort, worth, status, whatever than having a permanent address?

 

[luvsJack]

If the purpose of your program is to teach these families to budget and to prioritize, then wouldn't it be more to their benefit to make it their decision?

I mean if you lay out all their expenses and they see they have to cut $X from the budget; the choices would be to cut the cell phone bill or cut something else. If they choose to cut something else instead of the cell; as long as they cut $X; the effect would be the same, right?


As for the question about teens and phones. A teen would not have any control over whether the family has a home and would not be able to change that situation. Being homeless or almost homeless makes that teen feel that they are very different from their peers. The one thing that all teens want is to feel that they are just like their friends and having a cell phone does that for them.

 

[Purseval]

I have a friend who owns a bunch of apartments. When a tennant is having trouble paying on time he goes over and has a chat with them. While he is there he looks to see if they are smokers, if they have cable, a fancy cell phone, etc. If they do it's out the door they go. His reasoning is if they can afford things like that they can afford to pay the rent. So if one of your near homeless families lived in his building they'd be homeless real fast.

 

[crazelion]

Also some low income people buy there phones hot or off the black market. If do see them with a nice phone could have cost 2 packages of smokes and that is it for the phone.

Go pack into hiding now. Putting on flame suit. This could get dicy.

 

[Mcbruns]

NO! You are not wrong. Plenty of other plans out there for less. Take it from the kids first. I cannot believe some of the responses. $140 a month can go towards so many more important Necessary things.

 

[SandrA9810]

when kids have housing problems, they usually don't talk about it. It's a personal problem for them. But being able to "appear" normal, makes all the difference at school.

I remember wanting a jansport bookbag, name brand shoes, name brand clothing... I got the bookbag because I promised it would outlast the cheap ones. The other stuff I bought with my own money (started working at 13, first paycheck was 103$). But once I had that first pair of tommy jeans, it was the only thing I wore and washed every other day. Thankfully cell phones didn't become a "must have" until I was out of high school. Some kids had them, but they weren't the big thing.

 

[PaulaSue]

UGG! It sounds like you are talking about my cousin and her kids. Her adult kids don't work, have kids of their own, have NICE phones with internet and all and go out all the time. Guess who is paying for this stuff???

 

[sasywtch]

I'll never forget one example that was shared with me 15 years ago- it was regarding a lady buying a birthday cake with food stamps and the woman behind her that commented about her poor choice in how to spend those stamps. Turns out the cake was for her almost five year old little girl who was dying, so they were celebrating her 5th birthday a bit early. The family was on food stamps because the Mom had quit her job to be home with her daughter. So yeah....you never know what someone else is going through.---Kathy[/QUOTE]

I heard that story somewhere a long time ago also.
I use to work for the welfare office years ago and seen alot. It can get frustrating. I see alot of excuses (flame me now). My 4 kids are in their early 20's, late 20's and had lot of sports activities, both parents working and all before cell phones became popular. My kids nor us parents had a cell phone. Kids got rides, parents were there, all without a phone call. Texting is not a necessity, turn the phone off at work and leave a voicemail. If it's truely for emergencies, the pay as you go $5 should do it. 1 minute, I need to get picked up, I'm here phone call. If you look around, people have that darned phone in their ear 24 hours a day talking and talking. Nothing ruder than a cashier having to check someone out and trying to get their money while that person is blabbing away on the phone and the cashier is trying to tell them what they owe.

I have someone at work who has her daughter or husband on the phone for 2 hours and every once in awhile she'll talk to them. Who sits on the phone for 2 hours every day at one time and then when they figure out something to say, they talk? It's like they are joined at the hip and have to be tied to each other and then every 10 minutes or so, one of them will say something. Wierd........

If one is almost homeless, when the contract is up, get rid of all but one phone with limited minutes for job info only or emergency calls. If you want to make long distance calls, buy a phone card and go to a pay phone (yes they still have them at gas stations). The fact is, we just don't want to do away with those cell phones. I had a 15% pay decrease and reduced my minutes and did away with texting. If I want to call my friends, I wait until I get home and call on my $15 a month ATT home phone. If i lost my job or couldn't pay my necessities, my cell would be the first thing to go. I do have it mainly for driving as I use to drive through the desert with just kids with me.

If one notices, people don't get together anymore to say........hey, how's it been going because they are always on the phone.

 

[3boymthr]

I don't have an answer for your bt I can understand the frustration. I was behind a young couple at the grocery store. They had a baby in their cart that was in an obviously and old car seat and they were paying for their groceries with the food stamp card. I never pay much attention to people ahead of me but the cashier asked if the card was visa or debit and she said it was EBT (is that the right word?). The young man was chatting on one of those blackberry whatever phones and then the girl's phone rang and she had one of those nice phones as well. I did upset me even though it wasn't any of my business. I mean sure those phones have some good deals but when you are buying your food with food stamps and your kid is in an ancient car seat a 9.95 tracphone with 30 emergency minutes is enough.

See now you can't judge a book by it's cover and as a PP mentioned you can't judge a cell phone by the person's carrying it and what they're doing while using it...

I have a Blackberry Storm with all the data access you could want and DH has a very nice new model of Motorola with PTT. I also have an LG touch and DH has a Samsung that's Mil Spec and DS has a fancy pantech phone with touch screen and qwerty keyboard. Well, I didn't pay for any of those phones. Three of them were free with our contract - zip, zilch, zero to get those nice fancy phones in our pockets. And my Blackberry and DH's fancy smancy motorola with PTT well, we didn't pay for those either, our employer's did. Now you may ask, why do we have personal phones when we could just use the corporate phones - can't, they track our usage- it has to be for corporate purposes. So yes, DH & I look like we're wasting all kinds of money having two phones each but really, we're not.

 

[sasywtch]

As for the question about teens and phones. A teen would not have any control over whether the family has a home and would not be able to change that situation. Being homeless or almost homeless makes that teen feel that they are very different from their peers. The one thing that all teens want is to feel that they are just like their friends and having a cell phone does that for them.[/QUOTE]

And this is exactly what is wrong with the financial crisis today. Kids need a phone to feel they are like everyone else even if the family is almost homeless???? That's when you teach your children, times are rough, we all need to chip in, if your friends are truely friends, they like you the way you are and NOT for what you have or don't have. I raised 4 kids and all are doing well. When divorced, I was with 4 kids, no child support for 2 years and flat broke, partial food stamps, medi-cal (my job with the government was on a freeze so I couldn't go back yet...wonderful time for my XH to take off with a 21 year old). My kids went from having an excellent financial world to a meager one and we cut corners like crazy. In turn, it taught them that they would have to work their own way through college, get full time jobs out of high school if they wanted to buy anything. In retrospect, I actually think it was better for them to go through that time. 2 have graduated with a BA, worked and payed their own expenses, one had an apartment, one lived at home and helped pay utilities, food and some rent, one is just starting college and working and paying some rent. The other one elected to move up in their job and prefers that route. I think if my x and i had stayed together and continued the path we were going, my kids would never have learned the lessons they did learn on paying their own way and what's it like to have almost nothing.

In my day I guess I should have dumped or made fun of my best friend. We all had newer cars, my best friend in the late 70's had an old 60's plymouth.
I always think back of my parents or grandparents and if we said...........but all the other kids have this..........my parents would have said, tough. What in the heck happened to those days?

 

[indimom]

As for the question about teens and phones. A teen would not have any control over whether the family has a home and would not be able to change that situation. Being homeless or almost homeless makes that teen feel that they are very different from their peers. The one thing that all teens want is to feel that they are just like their friends and having a cell phone does that for them.

And this is exactly what is wrong with the financial crisis today. Kids need a phone to feel they are like everyone else even if the family is almost homeless???? That's when you teach your children, times are rough, we all need to chip in, if your friends are truely friends, they like you the way you are and NOT for what you have or don't have. I raised 4 kids and all are doing well. When divorced, I was with 4 kids, no child support for 2 years and flat broke, partial food stamps, medi-cal (my job with the government was on a freeze so I couldn't go back yet...wonderful time for my XH to take off with a 21 year old). My kids went from having an excellent financial world to a meager one and we cut corners like crazy. In turn, it taught them that they would have to work their own way through college, get full time jobs out of high school if they wanted to buy anything. In retrospect, I actually think it was better for them to go through that time. 2 have graduated with a BA, worked and payed their own expenses, one had an apartment, one lived at home and helped pay utilities, food and some rent, one is just starting college and working and paying some rent. The other one elected to move up in their job and prefers that route. I think if my x and i had stayed together and continued the path we were going, my kids would never have learned the lessons they did learn on paying their own way and what's it like to have almost nothing.



I absolutely agree with you...
I read all the threads on this board from people who are utterly strapped, buried in debt, and they quote incomes that are 3X what DH and I make together, yet we are debt-free and stress-free living on pennies. All you teach your children by giving them luxuries without security, is how to get nowhere while pedaling as fast as you can. I do NOT want my children to have that kind of stress.
My kids do not have cellphones, designer bags or jeans, new game systems or manicures, they DO have friends.
They also have a roof over their head, a comfortable and predictable lifestyle, and two parents who love them. Pricey toys could never replace those things.

 

[eliza61]

How about a roof over your head? Is it me? Have I lost touch with reality?

Having to live at different people's houses or with family that does not want you there is no way for a child to live. And if a cell makes everything all right, then this is not a world that I can understand.

Not a slam to you MrsPete, you are voicing what others have said. I don't have children of my own. So I am really asking if having a cell would give a child more comfort, worth, status, whatever than having a permanent address?

LOL. remember Muushka, we're old. and some time that's not a bad thing. WE can imagine an time when people did fully function with out electronic gadgets so for us the thought of not having a cell phone would bother us for maybe 1.5 secs. we know we would simply deal and move on to more important things.

I think cell phones are just this generations "cool clothes" or as some one else says status symbol. As nutzy as it sounds the cell phone would give the teen more comfort because it makes hime the "same" as all the other kids and I don't care what anyone says, H.S. is pretty much the same, kids want to fit it. Remember, they have no control over the housing issue. Also some adults may be thinking the ability to get their kids a jazzy phone is some thing they can do, they can control that. Sort of like when parents divorce, they over compensate with gifts for not being there.

Another example, most of the kids I work with are girls. When girls are in the 7th & 8th grade, they beat the pants off of boys in science and math. By 10th grade though they start "dumbing" down. Why? every message society sends them says being "skinny, pretty and popular" is way better than being "smart". Having the latest "jeans" gives them an identity. My niece had the nerve to ask me to buy her a pair of $150 lucky jeans. Now in my world the only time an unemployed 10th grader should have 150 dollar jeans is if she is Rihanna or Beyounce and is doing 2 shows a night at the Apollo.

I get a little peeved at the parents though, because this is when you step in and have that little chat about cash flow.

 

[mindyd]

although I agree that they don't need the nicest cell phones or a huge plan most people do need a cell phone. My Daughter is 11 years old and is in every sport imaginable and she NEEDS a phone. She has to ride the bus to and from the games even though we try to leave the same time as the bus sometimes they make stops after games or practices run late etc and she needs to call us. I have two daughters and half the time I am at dance with my younger and the older daughter is at a different activity. Honestly if they have multiple lines it could charge them up to 200 per phone to cancel. Do I think that having a cell phone is more important than a house no. I also see the fact that the kids have a hard enough life and the cell phone might make them feel like everyone else for once. Also a lot of times you get pretty decent phones when you sign up for new plans.

 

[momof2gr8kids]

Oh no! They have 2 phones on the family plan. She said it would be $275 if canceled prior to the contract being up. But I think it is pro-rated and they are 1 year into the contract. I need to get my ducks in a row before I go and make my suggestion!

I'm in Canada, and in my line of work I have people every day contacting me for help w/ overdue utilities, rent, etc. I have been successful w/ breaking contracts (not cell phone contracts, but others) for low income families and seniors without any penalty fees.

Maybe you can contact a manager at head office and request they waive the fees in certain situations due to compassionate grounds. There should be a senior customer service rep that you could deal with. A lot of companies will have in house policies that will allow them to do this. You might have to dig around until you find the person in the position to do that.

BTW, yes it would bug me too. It bugs me even more if they're crying the blues to me, talking on their cell phone, and SMOKING in my ear!!! (All the while complaining it will be my fault when their heat gets cut off!) LOL

 

[luvsJack]

And this is exactly what is wrong with the financial crisis today. Kids need a phone to feel they are like everyone else even if the family is almost homeless???? That's when you teach your children, times are rough, we all need to chip in, if your friends are truely friends, they like you the way you are and NOT for what you have or don't have. I raised 4 kids and all are doing well. When divorced, I was with 4 kids, no child support for 2 years and flat broke, partial food stamps, medi-cal (my job with the government was on a freeze so I couldn't go back yet...wonderful time for my XH to take off with a 21 year old). My kids went from having an excellent financial world to a meager one and we cut corners like crazy. In turn, it taught them that they would have to work their own way through college, get full time jobs out of high school if they wanted to buy anything. In retrospect, I actually think it was better for them to go through that time. 2 have graduated with a BA, worked and payed their own expenses, one had an apartment, one lived at home and helped pay utilities, food and some rent, one is just starting college and working and paying some rent. The other one elected to move up in their job and prefers that route. I think if my x and i had stayed together and continued the path we were going, my kids would never have learned the lessons they did learn on paying their own way and what's it like to have almost nothing.

In my day I guess I should have dumped or made fun of my best friend. We all had newer cars, my best friend in the late 70's had an old 60's plymouth.
I always think back of my parents or grandparents and if we said...........but all the other kids have this..........my parents would have said, tough. What in the heck happened to those days?

I agree with you. I wasn't saying it was ok and right; just the way they feel. Its hard for kids not to have what others have. I didn't say anyone would make fun of them or stop being their friend, that depends on the other people (although there are kids that will make fun of others based on whether they have the latest thing or not). Its mostly something from within. Teens just need to feel as part of "the group" and if "the group" all has phones, they want a phone too. Doesn't mean they must have one no matter what it does to the family, just that they really do want a phone.

We have had hard times too and we have sat down with the kids and said "we need to make some cuts, so lets look at everything and decide what to do". And that's what we did as a family. It gave them a bit of the power back to help make the decisions. And if they really wanted to keep whatever it was that needed to be cut, then they figured out how to pay for it.

I am in no way saying these people should keep the $140 phones and lose their homes or keep the phones and someone else pick up the tab for their homes or whatever. I was just commenting on something the OP asked about. And, if I was in the position of these folks, I would want a little bit of power to make the decision myself. (and if the teens were willing to go out, get a job and pay for the phone; then I would think that would partially solve the problem)


Oh, and as for your friend in the 70"s? Around here, he would have been just like everyone else. Everybody in my hs drove a 60's something. It was the paint jobs they spent huge amounts of money on!

 

[Kay1]

I actually got an email today of Mrs. Obama serving soup at a homeless shelter, and one of the guys in line for food was taking her picture with a Blackberry Curve

Gosh, that's still going around? If it interests you, check it out on Snopes.

 

[crisi]

See now you can't judge a book by it's cover and as a PP mentioned you can't judge a cell phone by the person's carrying it and what they're doing while using it...

I have a Blackberry Storm with all the data access you could want and DH has a very nice new model of Motorola with PTT. I also have an LG touch and DH has a Samsung that's Mil Spec and DS has a fancy pantech phone with touch screen and qwerty keyboard. Well, I didn't pay for any of those phones. Three of them were free with our contract - zip, zilch, zero to get those nice fancy phones in our pockets. And my Blackberry and DH's fancy smancy motorola with PTT well, we didn't pay for those either, our employer's did. Now you may ask, why do we have personal phones when we could just use the corporate phones - can't, they track our usage- it has to be for corporate purposes. So yes, DH & I look like we're wasting all kinds of money having two phones each but really, we're not.

The price of those phones is embedded in the contract. You can't get a $.25 cent a month or $5 a month pay for your minutes contract with a Storm. Expensive phones aren't available through Virgin Moble's pay as you go plans. Your data access alone is probably costing you upwards of $50 a month. If your phone company can send you a $100 bill every month for two years under contract for a phone that cost them $300 for services that are functionally free for them on their infrastructure, that's a good deal for them. And it might not be a bad deal for you if you can commit to the contract.

Phone service in other countries works differently. You pay for your phone, but then aren't necessarily tied to a contract. There aren't competing networks. They pay less.

 

[Pigeon]

I think that hard and fast inflexible rules in this situation don't serve well.

If I were working with families like this, as a pp said, helping them make their own decisions is going to be the approach that has the long lasting effect, not laying down the law. And certainly, you could counsel them about prepaid cell phones, living without, etc. Personally, I don't see having an expensive phone and high monthly plan as a necessity, but I don't live other people's lives.

It does strike me that for kids in this kind of situation, having a cell phone could be a real safety issue. They may not live in particularly safe neighborhoods and may find themselves in dicey situations, where having the ability to contact a parent may be a lifesaver.

My 12 year old has a tracfone (as do I), and it's worked out well. It's much cheaper than having a plan. We don't allow much texting and the primary use is for calling us for when she's staying late for extracurriculars.

 

[sunnyday123]

Your mom sounds like she runs into families similar to mine. This is actually a volunteer position. Lately I find it more irritating than heart-breaking. I can see a lifelong pattern of bad choices, and it is frustrating. And giving these expensive cells to their kids is just passing those bad choices down to the next generation.

I feel for them, but some people do make horribly bad choices and expect help. They -children or otherwise- don't NEED cellphones. They don't NEED to get ahold of each other at any time. They have a landline, they can use that for job applications and such. You can't throw a rock without hitting someone with a phone, so they could ask to use a friends in a dire emergency. I really have mixed feelings about people who are on the edge, but choose to not make any adjustments or do without certain things.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think that hard and fast inflexible rules in this situation don't serve well.

If I were working with families like this, as a pp said, helping them make their own decisions is going to be the approach that has the long lasting effect, not laying down the law. And certainly, you could counsel them about prepaid cell phones, living without, etc. Personally, I don't see having an expensive phone and high monthly plan as a necessity, but I don't live other people's lives.

It does strike me that for kids in this kind of situation, having a cell phone could be a real safety issue. They may not live in particularly safe neighborhoods and may find themselves in dicey situations, where having the ability to contact a parent may be a lifesaver.

My 12 year old has a tracfone (as do I), and it's worked out well. It's much cheaper than having a plan. We don't allow much texting and the primary use is for calling us for when she's staying late for extracurriculars.

Respectfully, if I were in a situation where I was near homelessness, my DH and I would be applying some hard fast rules to get out of it. You have to dig yourself out of the hole you are in and keeping a plan outside of your budget won't get you out soonest, if at all.