Do you think DVC should be a little more open to people moving dates without penalty because of corona?

[Coffee66]

Same here I actually contacted my renters and changed their reservation for May. (hopefully things are back to normal) I already had received 70% from the company. I just couldn’t in good faith not do something. I know I didn’t have to but sometimes you just have to do the right thing.

God Bless You. Now only if DVC thought like you. Please DVC owners or people that run the blog yell at me. Anything can be done if you want it to. Praying for all. I'm so sorry for all affected.

 

[DebbieB]

The operation changes are in reference to amenities such as pools and restaurants. The agreement clearly states that you are renting points that represent accommodations. If the accommodations are unavailable trough no fault of the renter, the renter is legally owed a refund.

The wording reads: "Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $0000.00 US Dollars".

It just addresses action or omission by the member. I would bet there will be a change in the wording of the contract to clear this up.

 

[Sandisw]

The wording reads: "Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $0000.00 US Dollars".

It just addresses action or omission by the member. I would bet there will be a change in the wording of the contract to clear this up.

Possibly. But the contract would become null and void if the accommodations can’t be provided at all,

The hard part would be to get the owner to pay up if they don’t want to and renter would have to go after the owner,

I get that the contract discusses what would happen if the owner does something wrong only, but how can one be expected to pay for something The owner can’t deliver.

I think that is why as long as the resort is open owners are not bound to refund money as They can provide the room. But, if the resort is closed, then the owners consideration in which they got paid can not be satisfied.

 

[Brianstl]

The wording reads: "Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $0000.00 US Dollars".

It just addresses action or omission by the member. I would bet there will be a change in the wording of the contract to clear this up.

First, ambiguity will always favor the person who didn’t present the contract. In this case that would be the renter.

Second, it doesn’t matter what it says there. It clearly states in the contract you are renting points for accommodations. If the real estate owner can’t make his property available, they have to return any rent they collected for that time period. If a flat I own burns down because of a lighting strike, I can’t keep any rent the renter paid in advance despite what I put in the lease.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I really feel for the rental companies though. They need to try and find a way to please what are essentially customers on both sides of the equation with competing interests, while also keeping themselves afloat.

We have had great experiences renting with David’s in the past I hope they come out of this okay.

 

[quandrea]

I’ll be very reluctant to rent out points ever again. Such a mess. None of it can be helped, but so hard for all involved.

 

[Amymouse13]

So we are supposed to take our 2 and 3.5 year old for their first Disney trip April 18 for 8 nights. I contacted David's multiple times this week to find out options but keep getting some form email about trying to with owners and dealing with March bookings. Obviously I know the names on the contracts, but I have zero idea if they have contacted the owners and what their situation is. We are open to rebooking, preferably 180+ out. We already have tickets fast passes, character meals and princess dresses. My 3 year old wanted to read the your magical vacation starts right now x family. I couldn't read it. I understand they are likely inundated with phone calls but days have gone by... What gives David? Should we hope and pray Disney reopens April 18? Honestly I don't see it. We can't get refund on park tickets, we have dining plan, and 8 nights contemporary/akl. From what I've read, seems Disney has auto deposited points back to folks for reservations in March. So if you took money and got the points back, what did you sell? If one could presume the intended rental contract included visiting the parks, did the terms of contract change? Honestly it's a huge mess. I'd like to think we can rebook and go. Btw lots of trip insurance says no pandemic clause.

Oh saw on gf thread they are helping folks leave resorts so essentially lodging isn't available per contract...

 

[Sandisw]

So we are supposed to take our 2 and 3.5 year old for their first Disney trip April 18 for 8 nights. I contacted David's multiple times this week to find out options but keep getting some form email about trying to with owners and dealing with March bookings. Obviously I know the names on the contracts, but I have zero idea if they have contacted the owners and what their situation is. We are open to rebooking, preferably 180+ out. We already have tickets fast passes, character meals and princess dresses. My 3 year old wanted to read the your magical vacation starts right now x family. I couldn't read it. I understand they are likely inundated with phone calls but days have gone by... What gives David? Should we hope and pray Disney reopens April 18? Honestly I don't see it. We can't get refund on park tickets, we have dining plan, and 8 nights contemporary/akl. From what I've read, seems Disney has auto deposited points back to folks for reservations in March. So if you took money and got the points back, what did you sell? If one could presume the intended rental contract included visiting the parks, did the terms of contract change? Honestly it's a huge mess. I'd like to think we can rebook and go. Btw lots of trip insurance says no pandemic clause.

Oh saw on gf thread they are helping folks leave resorts so essentially lodging isn't available per contract...

Disney is not auto giving points back to members, if a member does not cancel the points reservation, it is lost, as far as we know,

I had a March reservation and i Had to cancel it Myself. i think what people have indicated on here is that as long as the resort is open, with a non refundable booking, your owner has fulfilled your contract for you.

But, owners, I am going to guess, are trying, if they can to help renters. In your case, you mentioned being willing to reschedule. The only problem with that is that the owner who rented you points may not have eligible points to book during the time you might be able to go, Plus, fall is the busiest DVC time and right now, availability is already quite sparce.

However, if the resorts due end up closing, then indeed, most of us here agree that you would have to be refunded as the room you rented is not available.

I am positive that since you have an April reservation, and not March, David’s will be in contact, to guide your through your options based on the owner you are dealing with

Check your MDE,,,if your reservation is still there, the the owner has not down anything with it,

I will say that i have seen some posts on other places that some owners do not plan to cancel any rentals unless they have written requests from the renter specifically to avoid being the one in breach of the contract

 

[Amymouse13]

My mde has no changes. My point was really I gave no idea if David's has spoken with owner to see what my options even are. So if Disney closes lodging and owners don't have money to refund... Then what? I just need my options... My kids are heartbroken, but I get it and respect Disney's decision. But definitely see the supply/demand problem in future for dvc owners. I keep checking my email hoping for some update... So I'd say if you're an owner and haven't heard from renter it is possible they have contacted David's and got the form emails. I don't expect the owner to lose in this situation, I'd hope Disney will let them rebook for me and everyone is happy. It sounded like Disney was trying to help folks out... It's really in their best interest pr wise. But I'm left not knowing if my owners are just like screw you or what... But if lots of renters cannot rebook or get refund on this... Bad news for David's imo. No one signed contract expecting to not be able to go to parks... If the lodging is even open. And in latter case signed thinking the park and lodging would be closed and lose all their money... Considering it seems the agreement was based on a conveyed product. But who is left holding bag? And when will Disney reopen...

 

[LAX]

The wording reads: "Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $0000.00 US Dollars".

It just addresses action or omission by the member. I would bet there will be a change in the wording of the contract to clear this up.

If the resort is closed, I would assume DVC will refund the points used for the reservation. Thus, there is no reason for the owner to return the funds used to pay for the reservation, regardless of whether the "loss of use" of said reservation is the fault of the owner or not. There is no way someone should pay for something that is not delivered/provided no matter what the reason is. Unless the refunded points now have some restrictions attached that lower values of those points.

Now if the renter prefers to change the dates on the reservation while the resort remains open during the time frame of the original reservation, then it's up to goodwill of the owner to make such effort to help out the renter, which can be quite time consuming nowadays.

LAX

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I honestly don’t know how owners can be made to return money if hotels close and reservations don’t exist anymore. Our owner would have gotten thousands from a David’s on our behalf last summer. How can we expect someone to have to pay that back? For many I would assume the money is long gone.

 

[Sandisw]

I honestly don’t know how owners can be made to return money if hotels close and reservations don’t exist anymore. Our owner would have gotten thousands from a David’s on our behalf last summer. How can we expect someone to have to pay that back? For many I would assume the money is long gone.

I think legally, the owner would have to return the money because they couldn’t fulfill the contract,

Granted, if the money had been spent, it may take a while for that to happen, and the renter might be forced to go after the owner in court,

If one is using a broker like Davids, 30% is held back from the owner until check in. if a renter can’t check in because the resort is closed, I can’t imagine any owner expecting to get that and that David’s would give that money back to the renter immediately.

Just like the terms for renters states no refund unless it’s negligence on part of owner, the owners contract states 30% is sent at check in. If there is no way to check in, the owner isn’t reallt due that part,

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I think legally, the owner would have to return the money because they couldn’t fulfill the contract,

Granted, if the money had been spent, it may take a while for that to happen, and the renter might be forced to go after the owner in court,

If one is using a broker like Davids, 30% is held back from the owner until check in. if a renter can’t check in because the resort is closed, I can’t imagine any owner expecting to get that and that David’s would give that money back to the renter immediately.

Such a complicated mess. Bleh.

I imagine this is a big turn off to owners and renters alike. I know it’s (unfortunately) likely going to be our last time renting points. We were comfortable and prepared for the other risks, but a global pandemic never crossed our minds that’s for sure.

 

[Brianstl]

I honestly don’t know how owners can be made to return money if hotels close and reservations don’t exist anymore. Our owner would have gotten thousands from a David’s on our behalf last summer. How can we expect someone to have to pay that back? For many I would assume the money is long gone.

If the owner spent the money, that’s on the owner. That isn’t the renter’s problem and the renter is still entitled the return of their money.

You have responsibilities you have to fulfill when you rent property and first among those is the property being available to the renter.

Renters get screwed with only the parks closed. Owners get screwed with the resort closed. Them the breaks.

 

[Sandisw]

Such a complicated mess. Bleh.

I imagine this is a big turn off to owners and renters alike. I know it’s (unfortunately) likely going to be our last time renting points. We were comfortable and prepared for the other risks, but a global pandemic never crossed our minds that’s for sure.

I do agree with you there! I think this situation is going to make the risks of renting much higher, simple because this happened.

Before I was DVC, I never rented becsuse I didn’t like the non refundable aspect and the savings wasn’t worth it,

Lets just keep hoping that the majority of renters can be rescheduled!

 

[Amymouse13]

I do agree with you there! I think this situation is going to make the risks of renting much higher, simple because this happened.

Before I was DVC, I never rented becsuse I didn’t like the non refundable aspect and the savings wasn’t worth it,

Lets just keep hoping that the majority of renters can be rescheduled!

Truth. Contracts are likely being amended over this for future. I get the blind nature (though we have owner names), but this is so complicated it's hard to be productive... And trying to guess when Disney might reopen if we can rebook... Part of me wishes owners could call me or message though a masked server. It seems if they could reschedule it definitely would be better for them vs guessing about refunds re lodging possibly being closed and what that means contractually. But I have to sit and wait patiently and wonder if we are actually going to get to go this year...

 

[Chiefillini]

Check your MDE,,,if your reservation is still there, the the owner has not down anything with it,

We are renters and just checked our MDE and our resort stay is gone. We are crossing our fingers, based on what you are saying, that the owners were able to get the new reservation. A little light at the end of this tunnel would be great.

 

[Amymouse13]

We are renters and just checked our MDE and our resort stay is gone. We are crossing our fingers, based on what you are saying, that the owners were able to get the new reservation. A little light at the end of this tunnel would be great.

Wait did you request this? When were you going? Any idea if you're getting refund or rebook?

 

[GoingSince1990]

I was just looking at the standard rental agreement for a broker (not David's) that I have been using to rent extra points through. This excerpt seems to apply to the current situation:

The (broker name) or the Member shall not be responsible for any injuries, damages, or losses caused to the Renter or Renter's travel party in connection with terrorist activities, social, or labor unrest, mechanical or construction failures or difficulties, diseases, local laws, climatic conditions, criminal acts or abnormal conditions or developments, or any other actions, omissions, or conditions outside the (broker name)'s or the Member's control.

This would seem to cover the broker as well as the points owner (i.e. "the Member") against any obligation to provide any kind of refund, even if the resorts were to close because of coronavirus. I also took a look at the David's contract (I have also rented points through David's in the past) and could not find any similar verbiage, so the situation with those rentals would seem to be more uncertain. Of course, just because the points owner can get full payment, get his or her points back, and reuse them later on, without providing any refund, does not mean that it is the morally right thing to do. And I for one would never do that; I would always do my best to help out the renter as best I could in those circumstances.

 

[Brianstl]

I was just looking at the standard rental agreement for a broker (not David's) that I have been using to rent extra points through. This excerpt seems to apply to the current situation:

The (broker name) or the Member shall not be responsible for any injuries, damages, or losses caused to the Renter or Renter's travel party in connection with terrorist activities, social, or labor unrest, mechanical or construction failures or difficulties, diseases, local laws, climatic conditions, criminal acts or abnormal conditions or developments, or any other actions, omissions, or conditions outside the (broker name)'s or the Member's control.

This would seem to cover the broker as well as the points owner (i.e. "the Member") against any obligation to provide any kind of refund, even if the resorts were to close because of coronavirus. I also took a look at the David's contract (I have also rented points through David's in the past) and could not find any similar verbiage, so the situation with those rentals would seem to be more uncertain. Of course, just because the points owner can get full payment, get his or her points back, and reuse them later on, without providing any refund, does not mean that it is the morally right thing to do. And I for one would never do that; I would always do my best to help out the renter as best I could in those circumstances.

That shields the owner from the renter claiming damages against the owner while staying at the resort. It would shield the owner if a renter contacted Coronavirus while staying at a DVC. It doesn’t shield the owner from not having the property available to the renter.