Do you think Disney will require vaccinations for Covid to board?

[jlwhitney]

Well guess they won't be going on a cruise for another 12 months. We will see after that point.

Possibly will help with reduce capacity that they want to run at if they are trying to start up by summer.

If they even start by summer.

 

[sethschroeder]

If they even start by summer.

My thought is 2022 we will see.

 

[jlwhitney]

My thought is 2022 we will see.

I’m guessing oct at the earliest .

 

[mevelandry]

Very few are going to pay thousands (even hundreds) to have to be tested daily, wear masks and so on. The risk of not getting to enjoy your vacation will be too high and they will instead choose other places like they have done this year where they feel like they can still enjoy their trip with little worry.

During the summer, cases got so low here that everything reopened (of course, we had to wear masks everywhere) and we got to experience a very nice cruise brunch. We had to socially distance and wear masks as soon as we got off the table, even on outside deck.

Was it 100% perfect? No. But it was... 95% perfect. After months of confinement and abnormal life... It felt so good to experience something almost completely normal.

I feel like with the vaccine coming, even though there will be masks and tests, etc... People will feel a little bit safer and will be able to capture the joy of the vacations, despite the minor inconveniences.

Especially on DCL, if there is one place where they can bring magic even though things aren’t completely normal, it’s Disney.

 

[cpep42]

Why would they deny selling me a more expensive stateroom if there were a whole bunch of them sitting empty? They could simply sell me a more expensive stateroom and pull a cheaper one from inventory if they were looking to limit capacity. Disney is not known for passing on more money. So I suspect that your theory might be incorrect.

I would think they would take away from each class. They probably don't want the door to door rooms being booked. Making necessary distance for housekeeping, etc.

 

[mlayman7]

I am not sure why people are thinking Disney can't require everyone who boards their ships to be vaccinated? If they wanted to, they could, and should easily. It is their ships, if you can't meet the requirements because you think vaccines don't work (whatever happened to Polio?) then you aren't allowed on, simple as that. There is no discrimination happening when safety is the reason.
There are lots of countries that require vaccinations before they allow you to enter, think yellow fever, no yellow card, no entry. Nobody cares if you think you have a right not to be vaccinated, if you do, stay at home and do your own thing, just stay away from that country or that private company. Masks are required at Disney right now, wear it or be kicked out, simple.
I believe you'll have countries and lots of businesses that will require a digital certificate that shows you have been vaccinated in order to gain entry.

 

[jane01jp]

I am not sure why people are thinking Disney can't require everyone who boards their ships to be vaccinated? If they wanted to, they could, and should easily. It is their ships, if you can't meet the requirements because you think vaccines don't work (whatever happened to Polio?) then you aren't allowed on, simple as that. There is no discrimination happening when safety is the reason.
There are lots of countries that require vaccinations before they allow you to enter, think yellow fever, no yellow card, no entry. Nobody cares if you think you have a right not to be vaccinated, if you do, stay at home and do your own thing, just stay away from that country or that private company. Masks are required at Disney right now, wear it or be kicked out, simple.
I believe you'll have countries and lots of businesses that will require a digital certificate that shows you have been vaccinated in order to gain entry.

I think the vaccine requirement is coming - most likely in some businesses at first, and then eventually all of them. People that don't want to get the vaccine, for whatever reason, would then be virtually banished from participating in society in any meaningful way whatsoever.

You may be right that nobody cares. And that seems ominous to me. There may come a point in time when something that is required for "safety" is objectionable. If that time ever comes, I hope that someone will care.

 

[Cheburashka]

I am not sure why people are thinking Disney can't require everyone who boards their ships to be vaccinated? If they wanted to, they could, and should easily. It is their ships, if you can't meet the requirements because you think vaccines don't work (whatever happened to Polio?) then you aren't allowed on, simple as that. There is no discrimination happening when safety is the reason.
There are lots of countries that require vaccinations before they allow you to enter, think yellow fever, no yellow card, no entry. Nobody cares if you think you have a right not to be vaccinated....

I haven't noticed anyone arguing that Disney couldn't require it. Instead, many people are arguing that they won't require it across the board for various reasons.

Btw people who are hesitant to receive certain vaccines typically are hesitant not because they think vaccines don't work (although it's completely up in the air as to how long this Covid vaccine will be effective), but rather because they're concerned about potential side effects (such as guillain-barré syndrome developing in a percentage of those who took the '76 swine flu vaccine).

I'm not arguing against this vaccine. I'm all for it and will probably take it myself when it's available to me. It's just annoying to see such a broad and inaccurate brush used to paint those who aren't enthusiastic about taking something that hasn't had time to be studied for potential long term side effects.

 

[Lilsia]

You are wrong and that is a factual statement. Is the chance of having someone get sick much less? Yes. It is zero? No.

The vaccine is not 100% preventative of getting COVID19 or spreading COVID19. Everyone will be traveling to port, many will be getting off at port stops, and everyone will be around all parts of the ship. There is a chance of community spread on the ship between those not protected by the vaccine (and by not protected I mean those who fall in to the small percentage that the vaccine does not work on).

Sorry there is a chance people will be getting sick. Its why I keep repeating they will need additional restrictions on board. In addition Disney is even putting out promo videos and posting disclaimers about masking and possibly other policies.

This is why everyone needs to get vaccinated. Think back to something like the measles. It was pretty much eradicated because almost everyone got the vaccine. You know, up until idiot anti-vaxxers thought they knew better then science. If everyone gets a vaccine, there is almost no chance of someone getting it. If that means that the ship does not dock at foreign ports where everyone is not vaccinated, then I am 100% fine with that. Just go to Castaway Cay. If having proof of vaccination, or your immunity from having it already, is the way to go on the cruise without the masks and other restrictions, then I am all for it.

 

[sethschroeder]

Think back to something like the measles.

To my knowledge measles was never mandatory either and roughly 90% of individuals have outlined they already are expecting to get the COVID vaccine at some point in the future in the US.

If having proof of vaccination, or your immunity from having it already, is the way to go on the cruise without the masks and other restrictions, then I am all for it.

You are not likely cruising without masks/restrictions anytime soon with or without vaccination requirements. You are going to need to wait likely until after not having masks is "normal".

 

[Lilsia]

To my knowledge measles was never mandatory either and roughly 90% of individuals have outlined they already are expecting to get the COVID vaccine at some point in the future in the US.



You are not likely cruising without masks/restrictions anytime soon with or without vaccination requirements. You are going to need to wait likely until after not having masks is "normal".

First off, the measles vaccine has been standard, and law for children to have to go to school, since the 70s. There were actually laws since the 20s for vaccines as they developed them. So that is pretty much "required" unless you have a medical reason.
Second, I never said that restrictions would be eased up anytime "soon", nor do I believe that to be possible. We won't even get everyone that wants it, vaccinated "soon." But thanks for stating the obvious to us idiots.

 

[Cheburashka]

First off, the measles vaccine has been standard, and law for children to have to go to school, since the 70s. There were actually laws since the 20s for vaccines as they developed them. So that is pretty much "required" unless you have a medical reason.

Adults, except for those in a select few occupations, aren't required to be vaccinated at all, and children not attending public schools also don't have to deal with state vaccine requirements at all. In addition, the vast majority of states allow conscientious and/or religious objection to vaccines for public schoolchildren, so it's not accurate to say that the measles vaccine is "pretty much required". It's easy for the majority of Americans to avoid if they don't want it for themselves or their children, and that's for a reason. Most Americans don't believe the government should be allowed to force its citizens to take vaccines against their will. That's a violation of basic bodily autonomy.

 

[Lilsia]

Adults, except for those in a select few occupations, aren't required to be vaccinated at all, and children not attending public schools also don't have to deal with state vaccine requirements at all. In addition, the vast majority of states allow conscientious and/or religious objection to vaccines for public schoolchildren, so it's not accurate to say that the measles vaccine is "pretty much required". It's easy for the majority of Americans to avoid if they don't want it for themselves or their children.

And thankfully, most get the shot so that we can protect those who, either are unable to, or are too foolish to get it. Everyone would be singing a different toon if they stopped giving it to the majority of people and the measles made a comeback. Who would want this for their child? https://www.cdc.gov/measles/symptoms/photos.html

 

[mmackeymouse]

I want to dispel some of the math in regards to the efficacy rate. People hear 95% efficacy, and think that means 5% of any particular group of people will get the virus, even with a vaccine. This is NOT the case.

They think if 1,000 vaccinated people are on board the ship, 50 people could contract the virus. Again, this is NOT the case.

During the Pfizer trials, there were approximately 21K people in both the trial and the control groups. In the vaccinated group, of the 21K people, 8 people contracted the virus. Clearly 8 is not 5% of 21,000 people.

What it means is that whatever a person's chance is, of contracting the virus....it is reduced by 95%. The control groups, whether Pfizer or Moderna, places the contraction rate at somewhere around 1%, Pfizer a little lower, Moderna a little higher, but 1% is a good average. Now...the argument could be made that it may be a little higher than 1%. In certain pockets of people, it might be higher. So...the point is that if the chance, without a vaccine, is 1%, it reduces the chance of getting it by 95% (of that 1%)

So, if Pfizer's control group rate is 0.77%, 5% of that is 0.000385%. If you take that number times the 21K in the trial group, it comes out to....8 people.

Now, like I said, the argument could be made that 1% is a little low. And, the argument could definitely be made that in a cruise ship setting, the chances of unvaccinated people spreading the virus is higher, maybe even much higher than 1%. That said, studies are showing, though not proven yet, that not only does the vaccine reduce one's chance of contracting the vaccine, it also highly reduces the transmissibility of it, even if someone DOES get the virus. So, if someone does get the virus, on a fully vaccinated (or at least adults) ship ...the chances are small that they will actually pass it on, and it shouldn't lead to some catastrophic outbreak.

 

[sethschroeder]

First off, the measles vaccine has been standard, and law for children to have to go to school, since the 70s.

with state vaccine requirements at all.

@Cheburashka said it correctly these are STATE requirements. These are not federal requirements. These are also specific to a certain aspect of society and not a general requirement.

So if they want to implement COVID19 requirements for public school at a certain point they have a historical precedence at the state level. This is different than a Federal mandate which is being talked about in many cases.

Who would want this for their child?

Its not about wanting your child to have something or not. Its the concept of choice. Our kids have every suggest shot by our doctor/state that being said I would still be against a federal mandate requiring a vaccine.

If Disney personally wants to require a vaccine to board a ship that is their right. If Disney wants to require the vaccine to their employees now we are on shaky ground again and its not just a blanket answer.

Second, I never said that restrictions would be eased up anytime "soon", nor do I believe that to be possible. We won't even get everyone that wants it, vaccinated "soon." But thanks for stating the obvious to us idiots.

Well not sure why you are so bent out of shape. You stated that (paraphrasing) "if having a vaccine means no mask you are for it" which I am stating is highly unlikely to be the case. They may require the vaccine but that will not remove the mask requirement I doubt.

 

[sethschroeder]

So, if someone does get the virus, on a fully vaccinated (or at least adults) ship ...the chances are small that they will actually pass it on, and it shouldn't lead to some catastrophic outbreak.

I don't think anyone is saying it would be a catastrophic outbreak. Its the concept it could still spread among a group of individuals that the vaccine does not fully protect.

If you look at the current "bubbles" out there though they have been successful primarily through testing and "lite" masking. I say lite masking because if you notice sports teams are not playing with masks and even when someone does test positive its typically fairly confined.

I more just contest the concept that the chance is 0 because it is not.

Clearly 8 is not 5% of 21,000 people

Just to clarify the placebo group was only 126 people also 9 out of the 10 serious cases occurred in the placebo group as well.

 

[mmackeymouse]

If everyone on board the ship is vaccinated, it would virtually be 100% effective, even if the efficacy of the vaccines are around 94%, it gives everyone that received it pretty much immunity from contracting the virus, or from spreading to others since EVERYONE ELSE will also be vaccinated... I don't see how infection can be passed in those circumstances. AGAIN I know there will be some that won't be able to get the vaccine for health reasons, unfortunately for them if DCL mandates everyone boarding has the vaccine, NO MATTER if they are going to get off the ship or not, it creates this "bubble" everyone was raving about earlier this year when they were talking about rapid testing everyone coming on board, however that was misleading as someone could come in contact with a positive person prior to boarding and potentially infect others once they were on board. With a vaccine mandate from DCL this would actually create the bubble and it would be effectively infection free. DCL might have to draw the line on this and refuse boarding to anyone not vaccinated for what ever reason until the level of infection due to herd immunity or vaccination saturation, also I don't expect this to remain a permanent circumstance that DCL could implement. It's just at THIS time I'm going to stand on my belief that is the most logical way DCL could resume operations with full or nearly full ships by mandating this for guests and when availability indicates they'll be providing it to all crew on board ships as well.

I tend to agree with you. Vaccines, both for the cast, crew, and passengers, really solves a lot of the problems. Does it fully eradicate the chance you could get Covid on board? No. Does it solve 100% of the issues? No.

Adults, except for those in a select few occupations, aren't required to be vaccinated at all, and children not attending public schools also don't have to deal with state vaccine requirements at all. In addition, the vast majority of states allow conscientious and/or religious objection to vaccines for public schoolchildren, so it's not accurate to say that the measles vaccine is "pretty much required". It's easy for the majority of Americans to avoid if they don't want it for themselves or their children, and that's for a reason. Most Americans don't believe the government should be allowed to force its citizens to take vaccines against their will. That's a violation of basic bodily autonomy.

So this has been a very interesting turn of events, maybe the most interesting in my eyes. I think a lot of people aren't necessarily anti-vaccine, but just aren't getting the vaccine just yet because they want to wait and see. I think that's totally fair.

However, about a year and a half ago, not sure if you remember this or not, but there were some pockets of resurgence of the Measles. It was an almost universal opinion that people who didn't let or make their kids get the vaccines were wackos, selfish, irresponsible. I saw people from all walks of life.....liberal, conservative, pro-life, pro-choice, city-dwellers, ruralites....all saying the same thing: that un-vaccinated kids, and their parents, had no place in society. They shouldn't be allowed in schools, or on playgrounds, or at doctors' offices, or in public at all. Many even said they felt anti-vax parents should be held liable in a court of law for any health issues/deaths that occurred from un-vaccinated spread.

So, like I said, this surge of the "Vaccines shouldn't be forced by gov't" opinion, coming from people who not even 2 years ago, felt that kids without vaccines should be forced into obscurity and parents punishable by law....it's just an interesting twist.

I more just contest the concept that the chance is 0 because it is not.

This is fair. But, is 0 the goal? I'd hope not, because a zero chance of ANYTHING is just not going to happen.......even in 2022, 2023, 2024.

There's probably a zero percent chance that you get trampled by an elephant on board. There's that.

But flu, norovirus, broken ankles, drowning....none of those are a 0, and I would expect ships to sail on, with those risks.



Also, any sort of spread, would require A) The very rare person who isn't completely covered by the vaccine to come in contact with B) Another rare person who isn't completely covered by the vaccine.....AND C) for one of those 2 people to have contracted the virus AND (probably, we'll see) have tested negative for it prior to boarding, even though they had it. And for those two people to have had enough significant contact/proximity for transmission to happen.

No, the chances are not a 0 for spread, but a LOT of factors would have to line up very specifically for something of note to occur.

I am not opposed to masks (or other restrictions) on board, so it doesn't matter to me either way. But, I guess my question would be....are those extra restrictions *really* necessary in a situation where, no....transmission chances aren't 0....but they are very, very negligible? Like....4% of 1%.

Just to clarify the placebo group was only 126 people also 9 out of the 10 serious cases occurred in the placebo group as well.

Not sure what there was to clarify? I stated that (according to Pfizer anyway) the control group was 0.77%, which yes, comes out to 162. I also said that number was lower than I would expect. But, those are the numbers they have, so that's what I am going with. That said, if the control group numbers were higher, as I would expect, that would make the efficacy rate that much better.

 

[Clojel]

I want to dispel some of the math in regards to the efficacy rate. People hear 95% efficacy, and think that means 5% of any particular group of people will get the virus, even with a vaccine. This is NOT the case.

They think if 1,000 vaccinated people are on board the ship, 50 people could contract the virus. Again, this is NOT the case.

During the Pfizer trials, there were approximately 21K people in both the trial and the control groups. In the vaccinated group, of the 21K people, 8 people contracted the virus. Clearly 8 is not 5% of 21,000 people.

What it means is that whatever a person's chance is, of contracting the virus....it is reduced by 95%. The control groups, whether Pfizer or Moderna, places the contraction rate at somewhere around 1%, Pfizer a little lower, Moderna a little higher, but 1% is a good average. Now...the argument could be made that it may be a little higher than 1%. In certain pockets of people, it might be higher. So...the point is that if the chance, without a vaccine, is 1%, it reduces the chance of getting it by 95% (of that 1%)

So, if Pfizer's control group rate is 0.77%, 5% of that is 0.000385%. If you take that number times the 21K in the trial group, it comes out to....8 people.

Now, like I said, the argument could be made that 1% is a little low. And, the argument could definitely be made that in a cruise ship setting, the chances of unvaccinated people spreading the virus is higher, maybe even much higher than 1%. That said, studies are showing, though not proven yet, that not only does the vaccine reduce one's chance of contracting the vaccine, it also highly reduces the transmissibility of it, even if someone DOES get the virus. So, if someone does get the virus, on a fully vaccinated (or at least adults) ship ...the chances are small that they will actually pass it on, and it shouldn't lead to some catastrophic outbreak.

Thank you for this explanation! I *know* this but could not have spelled it out so clearly. Hopefully this helps some others

 

[Clojel]

My family and I fully intend to cruise Dec ‘21 if it happens! We’d prefer not to wear masks, but we will if that’s a requirement. My biggest reservation would be kids club...we don’t use the pool - we have one at home so it’s not “special” - and I am not a fan of buffets, so I’ll be fine to see those go - but DD loves kids club....so how (and IF) that will go is my primary concern!!

 

[Clojel]

My family and I fully intend to cruise Dec ‘21 if it happens! We’d prefer not to wear masks, but we will if that’s a requirement. My biggest reservation would be kids club...we don’t use the pool - we have one at home so it’s not “special” - and I am not a fan of buffets, so I’ll be fine to see those go - but DD loves kids club....so how (and IF) that will go is my primary concern!!

Haha!! Meant to post this under the mask thread....sorry! But as for this one....I think DCL will require the vaccine and I’m fine with that bc we intend to get it as soon as it’s available.