Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[Tiger926]

Great posts by OllieDannyandMe and WDSearcher!

I agree with everything that was said!

Tiger

 

[deejohn]

The last 2 trips we were a little "underwelmed" with the service. It is as if the cast members do not care or are demorialized.

I guess I remember the other trips where cast members would go above and beyond to make our trip magical.

I just have not felt that magic in the last 2 trips.

 

[moepanz]

I have noticed a change in the cast members the last few trips. I had a long conversation waiting for the train at the MK. He was very forth coming in how on unhappy he was. Now don't get me wrong he was pleasant. He explained to me that most of the cast members were not happy with the changes that have been made with the way they do their jobs. He gave a for instance, they used to be able to do "special" things for guests like a make a wish kids or other guest who were just nice people. He said now to do anything extra it has turned into paperwork and a total hassle and it is frowned upon and it takes away the really fun part of their job. He also said that there has been a huge change in park guest attitudes over the past few years. Everyone comes though the gate and expects Mickey Mouse to personally escort them through the MK, he said the advertising is deceptive when they show kids dancing with Mickey down Main Street. People think that is what is going to happen and they get balled out by the guest when it does not. He mentioned also that he felt free dining was the down fall, which is funny because during the same trip (during free dining) while in the pool at the POP there were a couple of guests behaving in a not so nice way and both of the life guards were shaking their heads saying "this is what you get with the free dining crowd"

 

[micknpluto]

I'm taking my friend for her "first" visit since the 70's... I go every year and always been pretty happy thats why i love it and keep going back.. I guess I should be thankful for the DDP cause its the only way I could afford to eat at those places. But I get it, I see some changes I dont like either.. I blame the economy..

Reminds me of my customers.. I work for a popular retail company... who has always been known for their quality merchandise... i hear complaints every day the merchandise is not the same.. quality has gone downhill. but yet I still think we are better than most...

 

[mom2rtk]

Great post Amy!

In addition, I think we can't underestimate the impact of all the force reductions of the past couple of years. I think they had a big one in 09. When there's fewer people to do more work (as Disney continues to pack the people in with big discounts) even the best of us would lose our enthusiasm.

 

[micknpluto]

I have noticed a change in the cast members the last few trips. I had a long conversation waiting for the train at the MK. He was very forth coming in how on unhappy he was. Now don't get me wrong he was pleasant. He explained to me that most of the cast members were not happy with the changes that have been made with the way they do their jobs. He gave a for instance, they used to be able to do "special" things for guests like a make a wish kids or other guest who were just nice people. He said now to do anything extra it has turned into paperwork and a total hassle and it is frowned upon and it takes away the really fun part of their job. He also said that there has been a huge change in park guest attitudes over the past few years. Everyone comes though the gate and expects Mickey Mouse to personally escort them through the MK, he said the advertising is deceptive when they show kids dancing with Mickey down Main Street. People think that is what is going to happen and they get balled out by the guest when it does not. He mentioned also that he felt free dining was the down fall, which is funny because during the same trip (during free dining) while in the pool at the POP there were a couple of guests behaving in a not so nice way and both of the life guards were shaking their heads saying "this is what you get with the free dining crowd"

I can completely see this happening. and it sucks.. I go during free dining I would never behave that way.. no way..

 

[Tiger926]

I have noticed a change in the cast members the last few trips. I had a long conversation waiting for the train at the MK. He was very forth coming in how on unhappy he was. Now don't get me wrong he was pleasant. He explained to me that most of the cast members were not happy with the changes that have been made with the way they do their jobs. He gave a for instance, they used to be able to do "special" things for guests like a make a wish kids or other guest who were just nice people. He said now to do anything extra it has turned into paperwork and a total hassle and it is frowned upon and it takes away the really fun part of their job. He also said that there has been a huge change in park guest attitudes over the past few years. Everyone comes though the gate and expects Mickey Mouse to personally escort them through the MK, he said the advertising is deceptive when they show kids dancing with Mickey down Main Street. People think that is what is going to happen and they get balled out by the guest when it does not. He mentioned also that he felt free dining was the down fall, which is funny because during the same trip (during free dining) while in the pool at the POP there were a couple of guests behaving in a not so nice way and both of the life guards were shaking their heads saying "this is what you get with the free dining crowd"

I can completely see this happening. and it sucks.. I go during free dining I would never behave that way.. no way..

Seriously? This is discrimination and profiling of guests and is totally unacceptable. Just because something is free, it doesn't equate to a certain type of customer who may use that product. That is ridiculous! If CMs are making comments like that, then they have serious issues in regards to how they view their guests.

It's just like if I said that WDW is in decline because they hire so many young adults, and then proceeded to equate a bunch of bad behaviours to those young CMs.

People can behave badly, no matter their economic status, and to suggest otherwise is very ignorant.

Free dining has brought many more guests into the parks and resorts, and Disney isn't keeping up on the maintenance that is attributed to a major increase in guests. It has nothing to do with how much money a guest does or does not have.

I find both of these CM comments to be very ignorant and insulting, and that is perhaps why we see so many problems in the parks these days, since attitudes like that, will only seek to target and discriminate against guests. Last time I heard, CMs are not trained to treat certain guests better than others due to where they stay or how they pay for their trips...

This seriously speaks to an area of decline for me - 11 years ago, when we first started to vacation exclusively at WDW, CMs knew what to say to guests and how to say it. Never would a CM have thought it acceptable to comment on another guest's behaviour or financial status to another guest. Whether it was better training (seriously though, you don't need training to know that is not acceptable) or a better job ethic, we never had this happen. Fast forward to the past few years, and we've had it happen, and I've called several CMs on the carpet for speaking that way to me, as a guest, about other guests. They have busy jobs, and snippy and snarky comments about guests, takes away from their actual real jobs.

Tiger

 

[mom2rtk]

There is nothing inherently evil about free dining. But any time you try to "pack the parks" as Disney clearly has recently done......... after reducing your workforce....... it's not going to go well. The CM's feel resentful of all the extra work with less backup, the guests feel less magic.... and you end up where we are now. Not terrible by any means......... but certainly different from where things were a few short years ago.

The problem is that the face of Disney is also suffering..... the CM in the parks. The ones responsible for the change aren't available to see. They're off shomewhere in an office calculating their next big bonus for lowering operating expenses while increasing attendance.

 

[TLSnell1981]

. They maybe don't embody what every customer thinks they should be, but they certainly aren't so awful that they should be fired.

Same thing at Disney. Many people look at their jobs at Disney as something they love. They're passionate about the brand, they loved the parks as a guest before they ever started to work. They love talking to people about the company they work for, and they have a pretty great time on the job. But to some people ... it's a job. They go in, they do what they have to do to get paid, they go home.

I wouldn't hire someone, who lacked passion for their job. It will eventually, take a toll on their performance. A functioning warm body isn't sufficient. IMO

, they used to be able to do "special" things for guests like a make a wish kids or other guest who were just nice people. He said now to do anything extra it has turned into paperwork and a total hassle and it is frowned upon and it takes away the really fun part of their job. He also said that there has been a huge change in park guest attitudes over the past few years. Everyone comes though the gate and expects Mickey Mouse to personally escort them through the MK, he said the advertising is deceptive when they show kids dancing with Mickey down Main Street. People think that is what is going to happen and they get balled out by the guest when it does not. He mentioned also that he felt free dining was the down fall, "

This shows, the problem is much more, than the economy. TIIC need an attitude adjustment..a bit of . They seem to be part of the "it's just a job" crowd. Nothing matters, but the bottom line. Really, really sad, it started at the top and has trickled down. It has hurt, the quality of service, and morale. This doesn't bode well for the future. IMO

 

[moepanz]

There is nothing inherently evil about free dining. But any time you try to "pack the parks" as Disney clearly has recently done......... after reducing your workforce....... it's not going to go well. The CM's feel resentful of all the extra work with less backup, the guests feel less magic.... and you end up where we are now. Not terrible by any means......... but certainly different from where things were a few short years ago.

The problem is that the face of Disney is also suffering..... the CM in the parks. The ones responsible for the change aren't available to see. They're off shomewhere in an office calculating their next big bonus for lowering operating expenses while increasing attendance.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think that equating free dining with more rudeness from guests is necessarily profiling any certain group. I think that sometimes perceived rudeness comes from inflated expectations that might be pushed even higher because of the pampering and luxurious feel of the dining package if that makes sense. Plus people in general are becoming less well mannered.

It is HARD to work with the public nowadays and it feels like it's getting worse. I work in a people oriented area and some of the expectations and attitudes are truly incredible.

 

[bobbins]

Free dining has brought many more guests into the parks and resorts,

I wondered about that - I thought the hotels ran pretty close to maxiumum occupancy year-round anyway? If that's true, then free dining can't make much of a difference to guest numbers.

 

[Tiger926]

I wondered about that - I thought the hotels ran pretty close to maxiumum occupancy year-round anyway? If that's true, then free dining can't make much of a difference to guest numbers.

They didn't before Free Dining. If you keep up with Disney financial or stockholder reports, they give specific occupancy numbers. Now, Disney hotels were and are always more full than pretty much every other hotel in Orlando, but they still weren't high enough for Disney.

Create Free Dining, and voila! you now have slow periods in which you could virtually have your choice of room, and walk on major e-ticket rides, now being sold out, with jam packed parks.

Free Dining was a brilliant move on Disney's part, as people will flock for something that is free. Despite the millions of threads on the DIS that claim that Free Dining isn't actually free, it is. Disney does not charge you for the dining part of your package; therefore, that makes the dining portion free. The question is whether or not it's the best deal, as you have to pay rack rate for your room.

Free Dining basically has packed the parks during what were relatively quiet periods for the resorts and parks, and so now, Disney hotels are at a pretty high and consistent rate of occupancy all year round. Genius!

At the same time as all of this, Disney also started to decrease their CM workforce. Huh? Why would you decrease your workforce, when you have now figured out a way to pack your resorts and parks all year round? Surely, there are going to be housekeeping, restaurant or resort issues, and there have been many of those. This current management team at Disney is obsessed with profit margins - how else do you explain an increase in patrons, but a decrease in employees to handle such patrons? As well as decreases in operating budgets for areas such as housekeeping and janitorial - these are the two areas that see the most effects from high occupancy rates at Disney. We have been having major issues in these areas over the years with DVC, and so it is a definite area that I see Disney going downhill.

This new management team, in my opinion, functions in a just deal with it world. Despite very busy parks, resorts and restaurants, less maintenance, janitorial and housekeeping CMs, Disney expects us guests to just deal with it. I have never seen more rides break than in the past few years, and I have seen messy parks, restaurants and rooms, more now, than every. CMs can't keep up with guest load, which has directly been affected by promos such as Free Dining. In the real world, when you increase patron numbers, you also need to increase your operating budgets to handle all of those patrons. But, in the Disney world, the opposite seems to hold true...

Tiger

 

[mom2rtk]

I wondered about that - I thought the hotels ran pretty close to maxiumum occupancy year-round anyway? If that's true, then free dining can't make much of a difference to guest numbers.

No way would Disney offer big discounts if they could fill the rooms any other way.

 

[mom2rtk]

They didn't before Free Dining. If you keep up with Disney financial or stockholder reports, they give specific occupancy numbers. Now, Disney hotels were and are always more full than pretty much every other hotel in Orlando, but they still weren't high enough for Disney.

Create Free Dining, and voila! you now have slow periods in which you could virtually have your choice of room, and walk on major e-ticket rides, now being sold out, with jam packed parks.

Free Dining was a brilliant move on Disney's part, as people will flock for something that is free. Despite the millions of threads on the DIS that claim that Free Dining isn't actually free, it is. Disney does not charge you for the dining part of your package; therefore, that makes the dining portion free. The question is whether or not it's the best deal, as you have to pay rack rate for your room.

Free Dining basically has packed the parks during what were relatively quiet periods for the resorts and parks, and so now, Disney hotels are at a pretty high and consistent rate of occupancy all year round. Genius!

At the same time as all of this, Disney also started to decrease their CM workforce. Huh? Why would you decrease your workforce, when you have now figured out a way to pack your resorts and parks all year round? Surely, there are going to be housekeeping, restaurant or resort issues, and there have been many of those. This current management team at Disney is obsessed with profit margins - how else do you explain an increase in patrons, but a decrease in employees to handle such patrons? As well as decreases in operating budgets for areas such as housekeeping and janitorial - these are the two areas that see the most effects from high occupancy rates at Disney. We have been having major issues in these areas over the years with DVC, and so it is a definite area that I see Disney going downhill.

This new management team, in my opinion, functions in a just deal with it world. Despite very busy parks, resorts and restaurants, less maintenance, janitorial and housekeeping CMs, Disney expects us guests to just deal with it. I have never seen more rides break than in the past few years, and I have seen messy parks, restaurants and rooms, more now, than every. CMs can't keep up with guest load, which has directly been affected by promos such as Free Dining. In the real world, when you increase patron numbers, you also need to increase your operating budgets to handle all of those patrons. But, in the Disney world, the opposite seems to hold true...

Tiger

As I stated earlier in this thread, these 2 things together are what is responsible for most of that vague feeling people have that Disney is just not the same as it used to be. Still a good place to vacation, still better than most. But much has been lost by expecting CMs to handle this new level of busy......with a smaller workforce.

 

[WDSearcher]

> snipping quote to address one specific bit <

Everyone comes though the gate and expects Mickey Mouse to personally escort them through the MK, he said the advertising is deceptive when they show kids dancing with Mickey down Main Street. People think that is what is going to happen and they get balled out by the guest when it does not.

> snip <

I have to wonder, though ... hasn't Disney been using pretty much that same marketing campaign since ... well ... forever? The image has ALWAYS been some little kid walking up Main Street with Mickey Mouse. Or a little girl playing with Cinderella. I remember seeing that when I was little and it was just the Magic Kingdom, before Epcot was even built. No one thought it was "deceptive" -- it was just advertising. No one took it to be gospel.

But if that's been the marketing image for 40 years, why suddenly are Guests showing up demanding that for their kids? What changed -- the company policy or the guest expectation?

 

[nytimez]

Free dining did not fill up rooms year round. Free dining is there to keep people coming in a soft economy. Overall attendance is down or flat over the past several years. There are fewer people coming and fewer people staying on site.

Even with free dining, the Disney hotels have been in the low 80 percent zone in occupancy rates and have even listed its hotels on Priceline now, or at least were doing so recently, because occupancy rates are not where they want them to do be.

The most recent annual report even comes right out and says hotel occupancy is down at Disney's U.S. resorts and up overseas.

 

[umichigan10]

Free dining did not fill up rooms year round. Free dining is there to keep people coming in a soft economy. Overall attendance is down or flat over the past several years. There are fewer people coming and fewer people staying on site.

Even with free dining, the Disney hotels have been in the low 80 percent zone in occupancy rates and have even listed its hotels on Priceline now, or at least were doing so recently, because occupancy rates are not where they want them to do be.

The most recent annual report even comes right out and says hotel occupancy is down at Disney's U.S. resorts and up overseas.

Isn't that just what happens in a crappy economy?

 

[Pirate Jeff]

As I stated earlier in this thread, these 2 things together are what is responsible for most of that vague feeling people have that Disney is just not the same as it used to be. Still a good place to vacation, still better than most. But much has been lost by expecting CMs to handle this new level of busy......with a smaller workforce.

It's funny you posted this because another "change in service" was just noticed by DW.

First off, I agree with your statement. You put a finger on it pretty well..

We just made reservations for next weeks trip and we wanted to go to BOMA but we always miss out because it is "holiday pricing". This trip, is no exception so once again, BOMA is a no go! We're just going to substitute Trails End which has a great price for the best fried chicken in the world and a "buffet respectable" roast beef (they call it prime rib but it looks more like a top round to me...). Still, it's a great value, one of the few remaining at Disney.

The problem however, is that the reservation was made via teleprompt. In other words, no human interaction!

I am hoping this is an exception....... because in all honesty, the phone CM's are the best anywhere! In my opinion, they are the front lines of Disney and are responsible for the "first impression" of The Disney Experience!

If Disney is going to cheapen out and resort to synthesized reservation clerks, they have MOST DEFINITELY GONE DOWNHILL!!!!!!!!

Even the most Pixie Dusted Dis'er cannot argue that!! The phone agents are the front lines!! They represent Disney! They are the key to every family sitting at home around the table, while mom shh'sss everybody so she can make her reservations for their trip!

I'm telling you folks, if this is the direction Iber wants to take, it is one of the MOST FOOLISH DECISIONS HE EVER MADE!!!!!!


Maybe some won't feel as passionate as I on this subject, but the phone CM's are critical (IMO) to the guest experience! If you eliminate this in the name of saving labor costs, it is foolish!

Again, I am hoping this was a fluke. If it wasn't, Disney is (IMO) in a world of hurt and has "jumped the shark" (as was stated previous).

For the first time since I read this thread, I am truly concerned.....

 

[Tiger926]

Free dining did not fill up rooms year round. Free dining is there to keep people coming in a soft economy. Overall attendance is down or flat over the past several years. There are fewer people coming and fewer people staying on site.

Even with free dining, the Disney hotels have been in the low 80 percent zone in occupancy rates and have even listed its hotels on Priceline now, or at least were doing so recently, because occupancy rates are not where they want them to do be.

The most recent annual report even comes right out and says hotel occupancy is down at Disney's U.S. resorts and up overseas.

Hmmm...that is not what I read in several reports. In fact, over the past several years, there have been times where occupancy rates were actually higher than expected, if I'm not mistaken. Like I said, Disney's occupancy rates are still higher than almost all other Orlando hotels (I have that report bookmarked somewhere in my computer), but still not as high as they would like, but for low seasons, the numbers are higher than they ever were. Last report I read, had mid-high 80s for occupancy, and when compared to other Orlando resorts, the report said that was pretty good. I think it was an Orlando Sentinel report, but not sure?

Free dining was created to fill rooms, so whether it's because of a soft economy or low season, I don't think that really matters, as it's filling rooms. Remember, those rooms were empty before during a great ecomony, as certain times of the year, like September or early January, used to be traditionally very slow periods for Disney as kids are back in school.

There is virtually no dead time at WDW anymore, and there used to be. Even when the ecomony was doing very well, certain times of the year, were not busy as kids were in school and parents were busy with work. There was no incentive to pull kids out of school, but now with Free Dining, there is. Now, due to Free Dining, you see families pulling kids out of school to go during slow periods, and this is exactly what its purpose was. The Free Dining promo has been huge in filling the parks and resorts during dead times. Perhaps you mistook me in meaning 100% occupancy in reference to filling the parks - you are correct that occupancy rates are not 100%, but since Free Dining, they are way better than before. I know that parks aren't 100% full, but they are filled up way more than they were before. Plus, make no mistake about how busy the restaurants are during these times, when before, they were not.

So, occupancy rates may not be where Disney wants them to be, but last report I read, it said Disney was hoping for high 90% occupancy rates, but that is way ambitious, since like you said, the hotel and rental housing market in Orlando is saturated. There are more off-site choices now than ever before, and that is definitely affecting Disney's occupancy rates, so I will agree with you there.

The bottom line is that Free Dining has packed the parks and resorts with more guests than Disney has been used to in awhile, and at the same time, they have lowered their workforce. So, the CMs who are there, are left to do double and triple duty, and you and I both know, that the parks and resorts are bearing the brunt of this.

One other thing that has added to the parks being full, is the hugeness that is becoming DVC. More families are DVC members now, than ever before in WDW history, and again, they are taking their toll on the parks and resorts too. So, you add in Free Dining promo, and lots more DVC guests, you have the parks being trampled upon.

Great discussion! Tiger