Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[Pirates4me]

We just finalized our flights for November.......well, we paid the $5 fee and the $10 early bird for our reward flights and transferred a few points so our car rental will be about $28 for 9 days.

When are you going and where are you staying?

 

[Donut23]

When are you going and where are you staying?

First night at Riverside (we LOVE Bob Jackson and we save the fees to ship our Christmas gifts to Riverside for Florida friends and decorations). For those who know Yehaa Bob at Christmas....my DH was one of 10 Lords 'a Leapin.....and Rawhide. What a good sport!

Next day we checkin at the Beach Club for the balance of our stay. Watch for our Christmas decorations......we have a water view room! GREAT tree for the window and lights!

Our Post-Thanksgiving pilgrimage....this year 1 day shorter 9 days instead of 10....goofy schedule.


We have another set of free flights which will expire early 2011 so we will probably fly out LAX and spend a few nights at our MOST FAVORITE....Grand Californian.

We can't wait to see World of Color after our first peek at the You Tube Video!

 

[GadgetRick]

Ok this had been a good discussion on what's happening at WDW. It turned into a personal, "You're wrong! No YOU'RE wrong!" thing. Hope it can get back to a decent discussion again.

In summary, a group of us feel there have been negative changes in the last few years. Another group of us feel there haven't really been any negative changes, its' as good as ever. Still another group feels there have been changes but they're not all that bad (or as extensive as the first group mentions) and it's just a sign of the times. I'm sure I'm missing someone in there....

Should people complain about things they feel should be improved/changed? Absolutely. Should they complain here? Why not? They should also complain directly to Disney (no matter WHEN they do). If people don't complain somewhere, there's no way Disney will know there is an unhappy guest or guests.

Is this the best place to complain? I have no idea (although I doubt it's the best place). But I'd be absolutely shocked if there weren't Disney people who frequent boards like this to take the pulse of both their customers as well as what the perception of the company is (perception, afterall, is reality). I would, however, suggest complaining directly to Disney as well.

Some people also feel those who don't agree with them are crazy. I don't feel that way although I don't understand why people tend to apologize for Disney so much. They're not special. They're not magical. They're a company. A company who has made mistakes in the past and will make mistakes in the future. Amazingly, they're just like any other company out there...

I guess the biggest thing I don't understand is why some people still insist there is just nothing wrong. I have been going to WDW for about 20 years now--a pretty good sample. I've cited tangible things which are going on which, well, does distract the guest from the experience. Many other people have also cited tangible things. Sure, food quality, CM attitudes and prices can be subjective but things like trash not being picked up/emptied, dirty bathrooms, dirty rooms, etc. are not subjective. Just because someone hasn't seen these things does not mean they didn't happen. Since many of us complaining have been going for a long time and haven't seen these things before, I'd say something is amiss.

People always come up with complaints. Up until my last trip (a few weeks ago now), I'd not seen things like this before. Was just there in December so it's not been years since my last visit. It was shocking to see. Actually commented to my wife about these things when I saw them. Enough people are saying similar things to ignore these kinds of things as being a problem.

We used to be DVC members (sold our membership last year). We owned at OKW so we've been members for quite some time. We sold it for quite a few reasons which I won't get into here as it's neither the time nor the place. However, until then, I would only stay on-property. Why? Well, one of the great things about a Disney vacation (I'd tell people) is being totally immersed in the fantasy which is WDW. Helps me forget everything. Didn't feel like I had to grab my cell phone every time it rang, etc. This, to me, was extremely important.

So we did the next best thing, bought a Wyndham timeshare (for next to nothing--another story) and we now stay at Bonnett Creek which is sort of on property (but not technically). You have to drive on property to get to it. Very convenient. Problem is, you (sort of) lose the total immersion in that BC isn't a Disney resort. However, I have to say, they have their act together. Great service, great rooms, etc. Feels very Disney-like sans the Disney theming. So we're good there.

Now, fast forward to what (I feel) is happening more often today. Basically, these things are doing more than one thing. First, they're making me and my family spend less money at the resorts. Obviously, not staying on property costs them money. More importantly, because of things like the food quality, we eat off property more and more. Again, less money for Disney.

However, and this is the biggest problem, whenever I leave the property, I'm back in, "the real world," and that illusion of immersion is shattered. I don't feel the same way visiting Disney as I used to. Ok, it's because I'm not staying on property and all that but, in reality, it's because of the changes to WDW which have caused me to spend less and less time on property shattering that illusion. The risk is, at some point, we'll feel it's just not worth the premium (which goes up all of the time) to try and recapture this illusion.

It's a shame really because we've not found that illusion anywhere else we've vacationed. I just hope they fix some things. I don't expect them to cut prices (although it'd be nice) but I do wish they'd get back to being Disney instead of just a big theme park trying to squeeze as much money out of its guests (yes, that's my opinion of what's happening...YMMV).

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I guess the biggest thing I don't understand is why some people still insist there is just nothing wrong. I have been going to WDW for about 20 years now--a pretty good sample. I've cited tangible things which are going on which, well, does distract the guest from the experience. Many other people have also cited tangible things. Sure, food quality, CM attitudes and prices can be subjective but things like trash not being picked up/emptied, dirty bathrooms, dirty rooms, etc. are not subjective. Just because someone hasn't seen these things does not mean they didn't happen. Since many of us complaining have been going for a long time and haven't seen these things before, I'd say something is amiss.

The problem is that anyone who has said they don't believe that wdw has gone down hill and not noticed the same things has been run off. Told they were wrong, lying or "drinking koolaid."That isn't a conversation, imo. I don't do that to my friends irl, so I can't see it as being appropriate here, either. I am not denying your experience, but mine is mine. No less legit.

waiting for pile on...

 

[mickeymom629]

I haven't read all the comments on this thread, but I have an opinion of why things seem to be different in the "World".

Several (maybe about 10 now) years ago, it seemed like every radio station (and some t.v. shows) was giving away trips to WDW. Then Disney started doing all sorts of discounts. More and more people have been going to Disney World who would otherwise not have been going. I think CMs get overwhelmed with people who expect to be treated like royalty and show little respect or manners. As a guest, it really ruins my vacation.

Please don't flame me. I work hard to save $ to take my family to WDW. Because of the economy, I am not even planning my next vacation because I don't know when we will be able to afford it .

Anyway, I think guests have changed for the worst. That, for me, has been a big part of some lost magic.

That being said, I do agree that there are many things that Disney has cut or changed that has been sad for me. I remember my first disappointment was, years ago, when I was slowly exiting Magic Kingdom and looking forward to walking down Main Street listening to the holiday music and cm's started running the vacuum cleaners before the guests had exited. That was NEVER done before. In fact, I have worked at the Disney Store and we weren't allowed to start vacuuming until the last guest had left, even if it was after closing time.

I was disappointed when the re-hitching ceremony was cut, but I understood with the reason. I'm totally disappointed with the disappearance of the Comedy Club and Adventurer's Club. I miss the parade at Epcot, but not the way it clogged the traffic for a while.

Through the years, I have been disappointed by some things that Disney has changed or done away with and I agree with Gadget Rick that Disney should get back to being Disney. On the other hand, they have been adding things that I think are great.

I am surprised that Disney keeps raising their ticket prices, but offers "discounts" on food and packages. I wish they would stop raising their ticket prices and let the guest find other ways to cut costs instead of offering free food. For our family, we just bring our own to eat in the villa (DVC members), frequent counter service restaurants and limit our table service meals. I am disappointed that table service quality has changed because of the discounts.

Now that they have value resorts, I don't think discounts are necessary. The first time I took my family, I could only afford to stay at a Travelodge because they didn't have the value resorts.

Anyhoo, sometimes I think guests have changed and that Disney has been changing to bring in more and more guests and it's a vicious cycle.

I'm still dreaming of my next chance to get there and I'd be there now if I could!

 

[Pirate Jeff]

Ok this had been a good discussion on what's happening at WDW. It turned into a personal, "You're wrong! No YOU'RE wrong!" thing. Hope it can get back to a decent discussion again.

In summary, a group of us feel there have been negative changes in the last few years. Another group of us feel there haven't really been any negative changes, its' as good as ever. Still another group feels there have been changes but they're not all that bad (or as extensive as the first group mentions) and it's just a sign of the times. I'm sure I'm missing someone in there....

Should people complain about things they feel should be improved/changed? Absolutely. Should they complain here? Why not? They should also complain directly to Disney (no matter WHEN they do). If people don't complain somewhere, there's no way Disney will know there is an unhappy guest or guests.

Is this the best place to complain? I have no idea (although I doubt it's the best place). But I'd be absolutely shocked if there weren't Disney people who frequent boards like this to take the pulse of both their customers as well as what the perception of the company is (perception, afterall, is reality). I would, however, suggest complaining directly to Disney as well.

Some people also feel those who don't agree with them are crazy. I don't feel that way although I don't understand why people tend to apologize for Disney so much. They're not special. They're not magical. They're a company. A company who has made mistakes in the past and will make mistakes in the future. Amazingly, they're just like any other company out there...

I guess the biggest thing I don't understand is why some people still insist there is just nothing wrong. I have been going to WDW for about 20 years now--a pretty good sample. I've cited tangible things which are going on which, well, does distract the guest from the experience. Many other people have also cited tangible things. Sure, food quality, CM attitudes and prices can be subjective but things like trash not being picked up/emptied, dirty bathrooms, dirty rooms, etc. are not subjective. Just because someone hasn't seen these things does not mean they didn't happen. Since many of us complaining have been going for a long time and haven't seen these things before, I'd say something is amiss.

People always come up with complaints. Up until my last trip (a few weeks ago now), I'd not seen things like this before. Was just there in December so it's not been years since my last visit. It was shocking to see. Actually commented to my wife about these things when I saw them. Enough people are saying similar things to ignore these kinds of things as being a problem.

We used to be DVC members (sold our membership last year). We owned at OKW so we've been members for quite some time. We sold it for quite a few reasons which I won't get into here as it's neither the time nor the place. However, until then, I would only stay on-property. Why? Well, one of the great things about a Disney vacation (I'd tell people) is being totally immersed in the fantasy which is WDW. Helps me forget everything. Didn't feel like I had to grab my cell phone every time it rang, etc. This, to me, was extremely important.

So we did the next best thing, bought a Wyndham timeshare (for next to nothing--another story) and we now stay at Bonnett Creek which is sort of on property (but not technically). You have to drive on property to get to it. Very convenient. Problem is, you (sort of) lose the total immersion in that BC isn't a Disney resort. However, I have to say, they have their act together. Great service, great rooms, etc. Feels very Disney-like sans the Disney theming. So we're good there.

Now, fast forward to what (I feel) is happening more often today. Basically, these things are doing more than one thing. First, they're making me and my family spend less money at the resorts. Obviously, not staying on property costs them money. More importantly, because of things like the food quality, we eat off property more and more. Again, less money for Disney.

However, and this is the biggest problem, whenever I leave the property, I'm back in, "the real world," and that illusion of immersion is shattered. I don't feel the same way visiting Disney as I used to. Ok, it's because I'm not staying on property and all that but, in reality, it's because of the changes to WDW which have caused me to spend less and less time on property shattering that illusion. The risk is, at some point, we'll feel it's just not worth the premium (which goes up all of the time) to try and recapture this illusion.

It's a shame really because we've not found that illusion anywhere else we've vacationed. I just hope they fix some things. I don't expect them to cut prices (although it'd be nice) but I do wish they'd get back to being Disney instead of just a big theme park trying to squeeze as much money out of its guests (yes, that's my opinion of what's happening...YMMV).

Rick: Very well stated and I agree with you almost completely.... on points I have also tried to stress from the beginning.

The problem is that anyone who has said they don't believe that wdw has gone down hill and not noticed the same things has been run off. Told they were wrong, lying or "drinking koolaid."That isn't a conversation, imo. I don't do that to my friends irl, so I can't see it as being appropriate here, either. I am not denying your experience, but mine is mine. No less legit.

waiting for pile on...

Indiana:

I am thinking, that anytime a person's POV is questioned in any way, it "feels" personal or as if one is being "piled on{to}". Just my opinion.

This thread is well over a thousand posts and if you take away a small number of them, it has been a civil discussion. Even some of the "arguments" have been civil. This must be so or we all know that the moderators would have shut it down a long time ago.

That said, I feel that a thread like this can serve a beneficial purpose both to us guests and any from Disney that read it. It also serves to let some of us know that we are not imagining things.

Where the "piling on" seems to become more noticeable, is when folks are criticized for their opinion personally, or told they are "lying". The best example that comes to mind, is Brunette being told the bed skirt wasn't "faded and tired - it was the way the picture was taken".

Where the problem lies, is that folks are saying how they "feel". There is no right or wrong answer. If anyone, can visit Disney and always see it for what it has always been, then more power to them (honestly and without sarcasm!)! One last thing, I probably am closer to your feelings than I am the OP. Personally, I saw the "faded and tired" room but I still loved the WL and would return. That's just me, I know for a fact, others don't agree but at some point, all the "little things" will add up and even the most magically infused folks, will notice. Our hope, is that it never gets to that point.

Pirate Jeff.

 

[Pirate Jeff]

....Please don't flame me. I work hard to save $ to take my family to WDW. Because of the economy, I am not even planning my next vacation because I don't know when we will be able to afford it .

Anyway, I think guests have changed for the worst. That, for me, has been a big part of some lost magic.



.....Anyhoo, sometimes I think guests have changed and that Disney has been changing to bring in more and more guests and it's a vicious cycle.

I'm still dreaming of my next chance to get there and I'd be there now if I could!

Hey Debbie!

You couldn't have brought up a better point. A point that was touched on towards the beginning, but has since been overlooked to some extent. Brazilian Tour Groups aside, that is one aspect of the Disney Experience that is right up there among some less subjective issues.

Years ago, we had to watch out for little children who would stop and get excited at any moment for any reason! Now it seems, we have to watch out for other guests that are rude and inconsiderate. It is sad, that you can pass literally thousands of happy decent folks but then run across one or two who act like they're the only ones that matter. A fact that Disney can do little, if anything about directly. Like you however, I am tending to believe that with the focus being on attendance, these problems are exasperated.

As to your fear of being "flamed", most of those that would do such a thing have left the discussion. But not to worry lass, chivalry is not dead! In this world, even now, there are "good pirates" whom will defend the honor of a lady!

Aaaargh!!

 

[Suellen]

It is comments like "take a picture so you prove it" that I feel are rude and nasty and calling those of us that say we don't see it liars.

When I related a story about a place I found dirty and stopped going as a point of yes you can just stop going even if you previously loved it.... I was asked whats the point of that story as related to this topic. Um. It was a place I loved (as everyone loves Disney) we went yearly or multiple times a year (as many here do with Disney) last time we went it was overpriced and dirty (same complaints in the this thread) so I stopped going. Offer that as what I would do if I saw Disney heading in that direction. We would stop going.

And what did I get for a response? What that got to do with anything?

This is crazy and I have no idea why I keep allowing myself to be sucked into a situation where unless I agree with every single one of you on every point my opinions, thoughts and observations will be ridiculed.

We stayed at WL in January ~ though I wasn't down on the floor inspecting the bedskirt so I can't really say if it was faded or not ~ the room was clean and well maintained. Unfortunately I have only two pictures in the room and they show basically nothing.

Of course we stay DVC so I also don't know if those rooms are better maintained.

I'll say this one more time too ~ to everyone who thinks they are getting free dining, or 40% off room rates, or a free 500 gift card. You are not. That is why prices are higher for tickets and food. The only problem is that everyone is paying the higher price even if they are not taking advantage of the "free" stuff. So getting rid of those silly promotions would go a long way to making everything more affordable for everyone. As well as making ADR's easier to get, quality of food improved and service improved.

*I have not noticed a decline in the quality of food or service ~ but then we more go for the experience than the food so food is a second part of TS to OUR family*

Of course no one wants to hear that.

 

[Planogirl]

It is comments like "take a picture so you prove it" that I feel are rude and nasty and calling those of us that say we don't see it liars.

When I related a story about a place I found dirty and stopped going as a point of yes you can just stop going even if you previously loved it.... I was asked whats the point of that story as related to this topic. Um. It was a place I loved (as everyone loves Disney) we went yearly or multiple times a year (as many here do with Disney) last time we went it was overpriced and dirty (same complaints in the this thread) so I stopped going. Offer that as what I would do if I saw Disney heading in that direction. We would stop going.

And what did I get for a response? What that got to do with anything?

This is crazy and I have no idea why I keep allowing myself to be sucked into a situation where unless I agree with every single one of you on every point my opinions, thoughts and observations will be ridiculed.

We stayed at WL in January ~ though I wasn't down on the floor inspecting the bedskirt so I can't really say if it was faded or not ~ the room was clean and well maintained. Unfortunately I have only two pictures in the room and they show basically nothing.

Of course we stay DVC so I also don't know if those rooms are better maintained.

I'll say this one more time too ~ to everyone who thinks they are getting free dining, or 40% off room rates, or a free 500 gift card. You are not. That is why prices are higher for tickets and food. The only problem is that everyone is paying the higher price even if they are not taking advantage of the "free" stuff. So getting rid of those silly promotions would go a long way to making everything more affordable for everyone. As well as making ADR's easier to get, quality of food improved and service improved.

*I have not noticed a decline in the quality of food or service ~ but then we more go for the experience than the food so food is a second part of TS to OUR family*

Of course no one wants to hear that.

I'm the one who wondered what the state of another hotel had to do with the situation at WDW so thanks for explaining it. Sometimes the point isn't clear to my frazzled mind.

I'll just add that I see things that are wrong but see no reason to quit going. It's still a heck of an experience even if a bit frayed around the edges.

 

[WDSearcher]

I guess the biggest thing I don't understand is why some people still insist there is just nothing wrong. I have been going to WDW for about 20 years now--a pretty good sample. I've cited tangible things which are going on which, well, does distract the guest from the experience. Many other people have also cited tangible things. Sure, food quality, CM attitudes and prices can be subjective but things like trash not being picked up/emptied, dirty bathrooms, dirty rooms, etc. are not subjective. Just because someone hasn't seen these things does not mean they didn't happen. Since many of us complaining have been going for a long time and haven't seen these things before, I'd say something is amiss.

You answered your own question at the end of your own post. You said "(yes, that's my opinion of what's happening...YMMV)".

YMMV ... "your mileage may vary." That's exactly the reason why some people still believe -- and, therefore, insist -- that there is nothing wrong. Because they honestly either don't see it, or it doesn't bother them. Their opinion is that everything is as it should be. You see a dirty bathroom and think, "Dirty bathroom -- I'm so mad at Disney ... why is this bathroom dirty!!" Others see a dirty bathroom and think, "Dirty bathroom -- I feel so badly for Disney ... I can't believe that people can't pick up after themselves." Still others see a dirty bathroom and think, "Was the bathroom dirty? I didn't notice. I'm on my way to the Haunted Mansion!"

Part of it is perception. Part of it is the whole half full / half empty thing. And part of it is that you are seeing things in a single moment in time.

When you see a dirty bathroom, or a piece of trash on the street, or a group of unbussed tables at a CS restaurant, you are seeing one moment in time. Unless you stick around to see how long it stays that way or were there to see what may have caused it to be that way, it's hard to generalize blame. I mean ... all of us have had those moments where we looked great until five minutes before the job interview when we spilled coffee on our shirt. But should someone assume I'm a slob because there's a coffee stain on my shirt?

Some things -- chipped paint in a resort room, undercooked or overcooked food, rude wait staff, frayed rugs in the lobby -- are obviously things that Disney has overlooked, although until you complain or mention it to someone, you don't know if it's being dealt with. The chipped paint may be on the maintenance log for that day as soon as you check out. The chef serving undercooked food may be new. The rude wait staff may have a coaching session scheduled with management that afternoon. The frayed rugs in the lobby could be being replaced the next morning. Or ... they could all be signs that something is terribly terribly wrong.

If the majority of the bathrooms you walk into during your five-day vacation are a total mess, then yeah ... Disney is missing the mark bigtime. Complain. Rant. Rave. Take pictures of each one and put them on a "Disney is a mess" website. But if it's one bathroom on one day and every other time was what you would personally consider normal wear & tear for a high-traffic location, then maybe it was just luck of the draw.

As you said earlier, "YMMV". What you consider to be filthy dirty may be perfectly acceptable to someone else. What you consider to be bad food quality may be someone else's favorite restaurant. You are the spokesman for only your vacation and only your experiences. Which is how some people can still insist there is just nothing wrong. Because their mileage varies from yours.

 

[Planogirl]

Ok this had been a good discussion on what's happening at WDW. It turned into a personal, "You're wrong! No YOU'RE wrong!" thing. Hope it can get back to a decent discussion again.

In summary, a group of us feel there have been negative changes in the last few years. Another group of us feel there haven't really been any negative changes, its' as good as ever. Still another group feels there have been changes but they're not all that bad (or as extensive as the first group mentions) and it's just a sign of the times. I'm sure I'm missing someone in there....

Should people complain about things they feel should be improved/changed? Absolutely. Should they complain here? Why not? They should also complain directly to Disney (no matter WHEN they do). If people don't complain somewhere, there's no way Disney will know there is an unhappy guest or guests.

Is this the best place to complain? I have no idea (although I doubt it's the best place). But I'd be absolutely shocked if there weren't Disney people who frequent boards like this to take the pulse of both their customers as well as what the perception of the company is (perception, afterall, is reality). I would, however, suggest complaining directly to Disney as well.

Some people also feel those who don't agree with them are crazy. I don't feel that way although I don't understand why people tend to apologize for Disney so much. They're not special. They're not magical. They're a company. A company who has made mistakes in the past and will make mistakes in the future. Amazingly, they're just like any other company out there...

I guess the biggest thing I don't understand is why some people still insist there is just nothing wrong. I have been going to WDW for about 20 years now--a pretty good sample. I've cited tangible things which are going on which, well, does distract the guest from the experience. Many other people have also cited tangible things. Sure, food quality, CM attitudes and prices can be subjective but things like trash not being picked up/emptied, dirty bathrooms, dirty rooms, etc. are not subjective. Just because someone hasn't seen these things does not mean they didn't happen. Since many of us complaining have been going for a long time and haven't seen these things before, I'd say something is amiss.

People always come up with complaints. Up until my last trip (a few weeks ago now), I'd not seen things like this before. Was just there in December so it's not been years since my last visit. It was shocking to see. Actually commented to my wife about these things when I saw them. Enough people are saying similar things to ignore these kinds of things as being a problem.

We used to be DVC members (sold our membership last year). We owned at OKW so we've been members for quite some time. We sold it for quite a few reasons which I won't get into here as it's neither the time nor the place. However, until then, I would only stay on-property. Why? Well, one of the great things about a Disney vacation (I'd tell people) is being totally immersed in the fantasy which is WDW. Helps me forget everything. Didn't feel like I had to grab my cell phone every time it rang, etc. This, to me, was extremely important.

So we did the next best thing, bought a Wyndham timeshare (for next to nothing--another story) and we now stay at Bonnett Creek which is sort of on property (but not technically). You have to drive on property to get to it. Very convenient. Problem is, you (sort of) lose the total immersion in that BC isn't a Disney resort. However, I have to say, they have their act together. Great service, great rooms, etc. Feels very Disney-like sans the Disney theming. So we're good there.

Now, fast forward to what (I feel) is happening more often today. Basically, these things are doing more than one thing. First, they're making me and my family spend less money at the resorts. Obviously, not staying on property costs them money. More importantly, because of things like the food quality, we eat off property more and more. Again, less money for Disney.

However, and this is the biggest problem, whenever I leave the property, I'm back in, "the real world," and that illusion of immersion is shattered. I don't feel the same way visiting Disney as I used to. Ok, it's because I'm not staying on property and all that but, in reality, it's because of the changes to WDW which have caused me to spend less and less time on property shattering that illusion. The risk is, at some point, we'll feel it's just not worth the premium (which goes up all of the time) to try and recapture this illusion.

It's a shame really because we've not found that illusion anywhere else we've vacationed. I just hope they fix some things. I don't expect them to cut prices (although it'd be nice) but I do wish they'd get back to being Disney instead of just a big theme park trying to squeeze as much money out of its guests (yes, that's my opinion of what's happening...YMMV).

Nicely stated. We are doing much the same nowadays and I must check out Bonnett Creek.

 

[Pirate Jeff]

It is comments like "take a picture so you prove it" that I feel are rude and nasty and calling those of us that say we don't see it liars.

When I related a story about a place I found dirty and stopped going as a point of yes you can just stop going even if you previously loved it.... I was asked whats the point of that story as related to this topic. Um. It was a place I loved (as everyone loves Disney) we went yearly or multiple times a year (as many here do with Disney) last time we went it was overpriced and dirty (same complaints in the this thread) so I stopped going. Offer that as what I would do if I saw Disney heading in that direction. We would stop going.

And what did I get for a response? What that got to do with anything?

This is crazy and I have no idea why I keep allowing myself to be sucked into a situation where unless I agree with every single one of you on every point my opinions, thoughts and observations will be ridiculed.

We stayed at WL in January ~ though I wasn't down on the floor inspecting the bedskirt so I can't really say if it was faded or not ~ the room was clean and well maintained. Unfortunately I have only two pictures in the room and they show basically nothing.

Of course we stay DVC so I also don't know if those rooms are better maintained.

I'll say this one more time too ~ to everyone who thinks they are getting free dining, or 40% off room rates, or a free 500 gift card. You are not. That is why prices are higher for tickets and food. The only problem is that everyone is paying the higher price even if they are not taking advantage of the "free" stuff. So getting rid of those silly promotions would go a long way to making everything more affordable for everyone. As well as making ADR's easier to get, quality of food improved and service improved.

*I have not noticed a decline in the quality of food or service ~ but then we more go for the experience than the food so food is a second part of TS to OUR family*

Of course no one wants to hear that.

I cannot speak for everyone and I guess there have been posts I did not notice - when a thread gets this large, some things get "skimmed" over. Personally, I would tend to agree with your second statement (I don't agree with the first but as I said, I didn't notice the post you speak of so I cannot form an opinion).

The difference between say a Disney and maybe another resort, is that Disney has always set the standard. It is Disney that has brought in guests by their advertising and promises they made over the years. You see a commercial for a resort like Beaches, you get images of clear water and sandy beaches. With Disney, you get "magic", "the most magical place on Earth.." or "experience the Magic of Disney" etc. Disney is the one setting the bar, not us! We just expect it to continue!

On your last point, you won't find many that disagree with you, surely, not me! In fact, I have stated almost the same thing pages back! All a "sale" is, is a reduction of a mark-up! And you are absolutely correct, it is not "free"! It is just a gimmick to get people in the parks and with the focus being on the bottom line, the things that made Disney "special" are being forgotten or ignored.

 

[Pirate Jeff]

You answered your own question at the end of your own post. You said "(yes, that's my opinion of what's happening...YMMV)".

YMMV ... "your mileage may vary." That's exactly the reason why some people still believe -- and, therefore, insist -- that there is nothing wrong. Because they honestly either don't see it, or it doesn't bother them. Their opinion is that everything is as it should be. You see a dirty bathroom and think, "Dirty bathroom -- I'm so mad at Disney ... why is this bathroom dirty!!" Others see a dirty bathroom and think, "Dirty bathroom -- I feel so badly for Disney ... I can't believe that people can't pick up after themselves." Still others see a dirty bathroom and think, "Was the bathroom dirty? I didn't notice. I'm on my way to the Haunted Mansion!"

Part of it is perception. Part of it is the whole half full / half empty thing. And part of it is that you are seeing things in a single moment in time.

When you see a dirty bathroom, or a piece of trash on the street, or a group of unbussed tables at a CS restaurant, you are seeing one moment in time. Unless you stick around to see how long it stays that way or were there to see what may have caused it to be that way, it's hard to generalize blame. I mean ... all of us have had those moments where we looked great until five minutes before the job interview when we spilled coffee on our shirt. But should someone assume I'm a slob because there's a coffee stain on my shirt?

Some things -- chipped paint in a resort room, undercooked or overcooked food, rude wait staff, frayed rugs in the lobby -- are obviously things that Disney has overlooked, although until you complain or mention it to someone, you don't know if it's being dealt with. The chipped paint may be on the maintenance log for that day as soon as you check out. The chef serving undercooked food may be new. The rude wait staff may have a coaching session scheduled with management that afternoon. The frayed rugs in the lobby could be being replaced the next morning. Or ... they could all be signs that something is terribly terribly wrong.

If the majority of the bathrooms you walk into during your five-day vacation are a total mess, then yeah ... Disney is missing the mark bigtime. Complain. Rant. Rave. Take pictures of each one and put them on a "Disney is a mess" website. But if it's one bathroom on one day and every other time was what you would personally consider normal wear & tear for a high-traffic location, then maybe it was just luck of the draw.

As you said earlier, "YMMV". What you consider to be filthy dirty may be perfectly acceptable to someone else. What you consider to be bad food quality may be someone else's favorite restaurant. You are the spokesman for only your vacation and only your experiences. Which is how some people can still insist there is just nothing wrong. Because their mileage varies from yours.

Excellent post! I may not agree with all the conclusions but you make great points very well!

 

[GadgetRick]

You answered your own question at the end of your own post. You said "(yes, that's my opinion of what's happening...YMMV)".

YMMV ... "your mileage may vary." That's exactly the reason why some people still believe -- and, therefore, insist -- that there is nothing wrong. Because they honestly either don't see it, or it doesn't bother them. Their opinion is that everything is as it should be. You see a dirty bathroom and think, "Dirty bathroom -- I'm so mad at Disney ... why is this bathroom dirty!!" Others see a dirty bathroom and think, "Dirty bathroom -- I feel so badly for Disney ... I can't believe that people can't pick up after themselves." Still others see a dirty bathroom and think, "Was the bathroom dirty? I didn't notice. I'm on my way to the Haunted Mansion!"

Part of it is perception. Part of it is the whole half full / half empty thing. And part of it is that you are seeing things in a single moment in time.

When you see a dirty bathroom, or a piece of trash on the street, or a group of unbussed tables at a CS restaurant, you are seeing one moment in time. Unless you stick around to see how long it stays that way or were there to see what may have caused it to be that way, it's hard to generalize blame. I mean ... all of us have had those moments where we looked great until five minutes before the job interview when we spilled coffee on our shirt. But should someone assume I'm a slob because there's a coffee stain on my shirt?

Some things -- chipped paint in a resort room, undercooked or overcooked food, rude wait staff, frayed rugs in the lobby -- are obviously things that Disney has overlooked, although until you complain or mention it to someone, you don't know if it's being dealt with. The chipped paint may be on the maintenance log for that day as soon as you check out. The chef serving undercooked food may be new. The rude wait staff may have a coaching session scheduled with management that afternoon. The frayed rugs in the lobby could be being replaced the next morning. Or ... they could all be signs that something is terribly terribly wrong.

If the majority of the bathrooms you walk into during your five-day vacation are a total mess, then yeah ... Disney is missing the mark bigtime. Complain. Rant. Rave. Take pictures of each one and put them on a "Disney is a mess" website. But if it's one bathroom on one day and every other time was what you would personally consider normal wear & tear for a high-traffic location, then maybe it was just luck of the draw.

As you said earlier, "YMMV". What you consider to be filthy dirty may be perfectly acceptable to someone else. What you consider to be bad food quality may be someone else's favorite restaurant. You are the spokesman for only your vacation and only your experiences. Which is how some people can still insist there is just nothing wrong. Because their mileage varies from yours.

And this is (EXACTLY) the point I'm trying to make. I've never said you (not you personally) should believe things suck because I do, rather, I've questioned how people can say something to like, "You're crazy! I've never seen a dirty bathroom. They're all clean!"

Part of this comes from the fact that I--and many others--frequent WDW fairly often so something like this may be more noticeable to us. Whereas, someone going for their first time or their first time in 5 or 10 years may not notice something like this. It's nothing out of the ordinary for most places but it is out of the ordinary for WDW. Whether you're seeing these things or not--and you've been there many times--you have to agree it's just not something you usually see at WDW (again, not talking specifically to you).

I can understand how some people just don't mind things like this (if they even notice them). I'm ok with that. Have no problem with that. Just don't tell me I'm crazy because it either bothers me or you didn't see it. Just as I won't tell you you're crazy for not thinking it's a problem.

 

[GadgetRick]

Nicely stated. We are doing much the same nowadays and I must check out Bonnett Creek.

Not to hijack the thread but pm me and I'll give you the story on how I bought my Wyndham for next to nothing and I'll give you some details of BC. No, I make no money, not looking to get a referral or anything. Just trying to help you (or anyone else for that matter) as someone else helped me.

 

[WDSearcher]

I have figured this out.

There are a few challenged individuals who cannot fathom the concept that Disney has things they need to work on, so they attack the messenger. Now some of these same "challenged" individuals have the audacity to criticize and question the OP for stating her concerns? It is not the "complainers" who are the threat to Disney, it is the complacent ones who continue to accept substandard at a premium price.

Let me explain it to the magnanimous "photographer" in the group: The picture was not taken with a flash. Get it? Understand? Tell me, were you there? Can you prove it with your integrity and all of your in depth knowledge that there "was a flash"????????? No, you cannot. Because I TOOK THE PICTURE!!!!! You remind me of the kind of individual who would argue about the torn wallpaper when the room is filled with rats. Get a clue.

What I "figured out", is that apologists like you want to see this thread closed. It has been an excellent discussion for the most part until there are a few "whiners" whom want to know how to "unsubscribe" to the thread. Frankly, I have been a participant and the only way I "see the thread" is if I open it up. Don't want to see it? DON'T OPEN IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's really simple.

Now, you want to criticize the OP for her "opinion"?????? Who are any of you to tell her she is wrong? It is her "opinion"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good heavens, are some of you folks so tightly wound you wish to take away a person's free will to have an opinion???

Really, it is not the OP with the problem here.........

Finally, the bed skirt. It is faded. It's not a big deal in itself. It's just a "detail". Understand? A detail or a symptom of a greater ill. Make sense yet? First, it's the CM's losing their magic, then it is the roofs of buildings going neglected, then the quality of the food then raise the prices. Eventually, all the little things that made Disney great, turn it into Six Flags.

None of us want that!!! That's why we complain!! That's why the OP started this thread!!!! Because WE CARE!!!! It is only people like some of those here, that make it worse by ignoring it!! When substandard becomes the norm, substandard becomes acceptable. That's not what Disney wanted. It's disgraceful! As paying guests, we have as much right to complain as it is your right to ignore it!!

As for any further personal attacks on the OP, feel free to PM me. I will be more than happy to straighten anyone out on how to properly address a lady. By whatever means required. Show some respect. If you can't, give me a call and we can settle this properly.

It is unfortunate, that a few individuals have dragged this thread down. It was one of the best discussions I've been a part of until this nonsense began. Heck, even Bicker had more respect than a couple of you folks now are showing.

A faded bed skirt is a sign of a deeper issue. The details don't matter near as much as they used to...., how sad.

Geez. Who made you board monitor all of a sudden?

Call out the individuals if you feel you really have to. Report them to the Mods. Put them on "ignore". Whatever. But don't address us all like errant children.

I get that you're frustrated and angry, but come on. It's a theme park, not world peace. Yikes.

 

[Suellen]

Still others see a dirty bathroom and think, "Was the bathroom dirty? I didn't notice. I'm on my way to the Haunted Mansion!"

LOL ~ this is most likely me and my girls. We are in, we are out and we are on our way to our next magical moment.

I think we are more these type of people:

Then the white glove type of people.

And anyplace that I can see this face on my otherwise ornery little three year old (okay well she was two at the time but the fairy godmothers took a shine to her and let her be madeup anyway) is tops in my book

As another thought ~ I was a little appalled at how EMPTY the trashcans were when they were being emptied anyway. It didn't seem very green and I can only hope the trashbags are recycled ones. Most recently at The Land in Epcot during July 4th week.

 

[brunette8706]

Geez. Who made you board monitor all of a sudden?

Call out the individuals if you feel you really have to. Report them to the Mods. Put them on "ignore". Whatever. But don't address us all like errant children.

I get that you're frustrated and angry, but come on. It's a theme park, not world peace. Yikes.

*
Actually the above post was not about you. And he was frustrated as was I to be called a liar about the bed skirt and other "personal" attacks. It was in reference to two individuals and I can see exactly why Pirate Jeff became frustrated. The above referenced poster stop posting and one said that she was going to unsubscribe because it was too much whiniing. Evidentently she did not unsubscribe. So be it.

Brunette

 

[Pirate Jeff]

Geez. Who made you board monitor all of a sudden?

Call out the individuals if you feel you really have to. Report them to the Mods. Put them on "ignore". Whatever. But don't address us all like errant children.

I get that you're frustrated and angry, but come on. It's a theme park, not world peace. Yikes.

I don't think you have a clue as to what I feel. These comments were directed at two individuals whom were personally attacking another member and I stand by these comments. My "anger" is at the lack of courtesy shown by these other members.

As for your addressing me: I guess my accepting of others opinions (see post #1093) doesn't apply to your interpretation of my actions? Proof that no good deed goes unpunished! Sheeesh!

 

[d1gitman]

...As another thought ~ I was a little appalled at how EMPTY the trashcans were when they were being emptied anyway. It didn't seem very green and I can only hope the trashbags are recycled ones. Most recently at The Land in Epcot during July 4th week.

OMG, either the trash is too FULL or too EMPTY. Damn you Disney, get it right! Don't you know the fate of our vacations rests on whether or not you empty the trash at precisely the correct time and level of fullness. And for goodness sakes, stop using old growth virgin forests for your paper products and non-recycled plastics.