Do you think animals go to heaven?

[MzDiz]

Animals clearly are NOT human, and while they may do things that can seem like they would be human-like, they are just "things" that they do, based on familiarity and instinct.

Isn't that what we do though? We're taught to speak, to dress ourselves, to bathe, to eat properly. Certainly none of us are born with those qualities.

But as to the choice of being able to go to heaven, this is reserved in the Bible specifically for those who make the choice to accept Jesus, which an animal clearly cannot do.

So, then you're saying that anyone that hasn't made that choice, is damned? There must be billions of good people burning for all eternity just because a missionary didn't make it to their village in time.

When those who will go there arrive, they will have one thing that they will want to do - praise God all the time, b/c of His glory. Scripture is pretty clear on that.

Wouldn't that get boring after a while. I mean, not just for the worshippers, but for god? You would think that after a while, he'd be all like "blah blah blah, yeah, I'm great... gonna go watch wheel of fortune now..."

 

[Planogirl]

But as to the choice of being able to go to heaven, this is reserved in the Bible specifically for those who make the choice to accept Jesus, which an animal clearly cannot do.

I was under the impression that if a being is unable to make this choice, that they are considered blameless? Like babies.

 

[DukeStreetKing]

You're assuming there is such a thing as Heaven. But what if this is it? We're born, we do the best we can and then we die. That's it, nothing else. This is probably a discussion for an entirely different thread. Me, I'd hate to think there's nothing after this life. I mean, I have so many unanswered questions. I like to think that everything is explained once you get where you're going.

 

[Buckalew11]

What an intersting thread. So many thoughts to read and think about. Some of it (both sides) are things I have never thought about before--and I have thought about my beloved pets and what happens after they die a lot.

Right now, I am thinking about them not sinning against God and being blameless...

which makes me thhink about the Jews sacrificing animals to God in the OT. Them being innocent was part of why they were pleasing to God as a sacrifice right? Jesus is referred to as the "lamb of God"...He never sinned either--just like those animal sacrifices in the OT. If animals did sin against God, I would think they wouldn't have been acceptable during those times. But maybe I am way out in left field, lol, thinking too much!

Anyway, thanks for giving me much to think about in a more positive way than before. I will continue to hope to see my furbabies in the AL.

 

[cinmell]

No, I don't believe that animals go to heaven.

 

[numbersman]

So, then you're saying that anyone that hasn't made that choice, is damned? There must be billions of good people burning for all eternity just because a missionary didn't make it to their village in time.

No, I'm just referencing what Scripture clearly teaches. It's not a message I made up or instituted as a rule myself. But it is clearly in the Bible. In fact, it's probably one of the harder concepts that many, even Christians, have a hard time accepting, b/c it flies in the face of what humans would consider "fair" or "logical." Amazingly enough, God is fair, but is not always logical, as humans understand logic! But if you think that what you referenced in your question above isn't true, look at Romans 1:18-20, or Romans 10, and then tell me what you think based on those Scripture passages. God's words, not mine, though I do believe them wholeheartedly.

Wouldn't that get boring after a while. I mean, not just for the worshippers, but for god? You would think that after a while, he'd be all like "blah blah blah, yeah, I'm great... gonna go watch wheel of fortune now..."

Not according to the Bible. But again, what seems illogical to humans makes perfect sense to God. To know how glorious and powerful and awesome He is, and to finally come into full view of that - I have no problem believing that we will be perfectly happy to do that throughout eternity, b/c the Bible says so!

 

[Disney-Kim]

If there is a heaven, then I believe that pets are more deserving than most to go to heavan. All God's Creatures...right???

and they even have their own Saint...St Francis....

 

[numbersman]

I was under the impression that if a being is unable to make this choice, that they are considered blameless? Like babies.

You are partly right. The key to your question is WHO is unable to make this choice. I believe, and I believe the Bible supports this, that there are only 2 "groups" of people who fall into this category - those under the age of accountability (i.e. babies/infants/children who don't yet fully understand the concept of salvation and what it entails) and those who will never reach the age of accountability (i.e. mentally handicapped to the degree that they will never be able to fully understand the concepts and necessary actions required). Scripture is clear that these will not be held accountable for their decisions, as they do not have the mental capacity to make the proper decision.

What many others believe, however, is that "people who have never heard" (i.e. deepest darkest Africa, etc...) also fall under this description. There are several Scriptural problems with that. What about Romans 1? What about Romans 10? What about Jesus being the only way? Wouldn't we then be better off NOT telling anybody about Jesus, b/c then they're not held to the standard of judgment? If so, doesn't that fly in the face of the Great Commission, where we're told to tell everyone? Too many Biblicla contradictions arise from it. The number 1 argument people then make is to say "Well, I believe that God is a loving god, and wouldn't send people to hell if they don't have a chance." There are 2 flaws with that argument: (1) it doesn't matter what we believe, it matters what the Bible says (of course, I suppose this is only applicable if you believe the Bible, which many don't, but I'm speaking for myself here); and (2) Romans is pretty clear that ALL people are without excuse (with specific Scriptural exceptions for the 2 categories I stated above). So again, while it may not seem "fair" or "logical" to us, I believe it is so, b/c God said it.

 

[numbersman]

You're assuming there is such a thing as Heaven. But what if this is it? We're born, we do the best we can and then we die. That's it, nothing else. This is probably a discussion for an entirely different thread. Me, I'd hate to think there's nothing after this life. I mean, I have so many unanswered questions. I like to think that everything is explained once you get where you're going.

Personally, I don't assume there is such a thing as Heaven. I believe by faith that there is one, b/c I believe in God and the Bible, which says there is. Can I prove it tangibly? Nope, can't do that. But that's where my faith comes in. And I agree with you, I think a lot of things will make more sense (or may not even matter) once we get where we're going. The key, to me at least, is to make sure you get to the right place.

You said you have many unanswered questions. Sounds like it's time to start seeking out the answers. Feel free to PM me, maybe I can help, or at least point you in the right direction!

 

[CheshireVal]

You are partly right. The key to your question is WHO is unable to make this choice. I believe, and I believe the Bible supports this, that there are only 2 "groups" of people who fall into this category - those under the age of accountability (i.e. babies/infants/children who don't yet fully understand the concept of salvation and what it entails) and those who will never reach the age of accountability (i.e. mentally handicapped to the degree that they will never be able to fully understand the concepts and necessary actions required). Scripture is clear that these will not be held accountable for their decisions, as they do not have the mental capacity to make the proper decision.

What many others believe, however, is that "people who have never heard" (i.e. deepest darkest Africa, etc...) also fall under this description. There are several Scriptural problems with that. What about Romans 1? What about Romans 10? What about Jesus being the only way? Wouldn't we then be better off NOT telling anybody about Jesus, b/c then they're not held to the standard of judgment? If so, doesn't that fly in the face of the Great Commission, where we're told to tell everyone? Too many Biblicla contradictions arise from it. The number 1 argument people then make is to say "Well, I believe that God is a loving god, and wouldn't send people to hell if they don't have a chance." There are 2 flaws with that argument: (1) it doesn't matter what we believe, it matters what the Bible says (of course, I suppose this is only applicable if you believe the Bible, which many don't, but I'm speaking for myself here); and (2) Romans is pretty clear that ALL people are without excuse (with specific Scriptural exceptions for the 2 categories I stated above). So again, while it may not seem "fair" or "logical" to us, I believe it is so, b/c God said it.

The thing is, though... okay, I'll grant you-- you obviously know your stuff when it comes to the Bible. But everyone (even different denominations) interprets the Bible differently. You obviously believe in the strictest of possible interpretations of the Bible (even literal interpretations!) I am a Christian myself, but I don't agree with the notion that you are going to Hell if you haven't converted to Christianity at the time you die.

This is one of the oldest theological debates, but I don't think you can find the answer here on the Dis.

 

[binny]

To me, this, as most things regarding the Bible are open to interpretation.

I dont pretend to know the absolute answer to the OPS question but I will tell you what I hope for and believe.

I hope that they are there but I believe if they arent Heaven will still be the most amazing place and we wont long for them or mourn them anymore. I think when our souls reach heaven they will have everything we long for there. I think what we long for there though will be far different than we want here.




Again, Just MTCW

 

[poohandwendy]

but I don't think you can find the answer here on the Dis.

Now, don't you think you are underestimating the DIS a wee bit? I mean, I have found out how to get ink out of my carpet, where to find the best gas prices in my area, how to tell if I am having a stroke/heart attack and what to do about it..the list goes on and on...surely we can interpret the Bible within a reasonable amount of accuracy and agreement, right?

 

[CheshireVal]

Now, don't you think you are underestimating the DIS a wee bit? I mean, I have found out how to get ink out of my carpet, where to find the best gas prices in my area, how to tell if I am having a stroke/heart attack and what to do about it..the list goes on and on...surely we can interpret the Bible within a reasonable amount of accuracy and agreement, right?

Well, even if we can't.... I'm sure we'll give it a try!

 

[cardaway]

To me, this, as most things regarding the Bible are open to interpretation.

Exactly. Hopefully people are seeing the big red flags everytime somebody comes into a discussion like this acting like THE expert with definitive answers.

 

[poohandwendy]

Hopefully people are seeing the big red flags everytime somebody comes into a discussion like this acting like THE expert with definitive answers.

I am very leery of anyone who speaks in total absolutes. It's one thing to say "I believe", quite another to say "This is the way it is"



Totally OT but.... (anyone know why this smilie is called 'furious', btw?)

 

[numbersman]

Exactly. Hopefully people are seeing the big red flags everytime somebody comes into a discussion like this acting like THE expert with definitive answers.

Easy, tiger! I would hope that big red flags aren't going up, simply b/c I'm quoting Scripture and saying what I believe. If so, then I think those flags might be going up a little prematurely. I am going to ASSUME, as I don't know this for sure, that you DON'T agree with what I'm saying. If that is true, and you don't agree, that is fine. I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree with me. I'm just stating what I believe the Bible says. I also don't believe I have stated or implied anywhere in this thread that I am an expert with definitive answers. In fact, wasn't it you who commented on an earlier post of mine that I wasn't providing anything definitive?

I am FAR from an expert on anything, but I do a lot of Bible study, and while that doesn't make me an expert on it, it has allowed me to at least gain some insight as to what it has to say to us. And there is so much more to the Bible than just the English language we see printed. Original text, context, cross-referencing with other Scripture, there's a lot out there that can really help explain the Bible better, which you only see by studying. So am I a student of the Bible? Absolutely? Fairly versed in it? I think so. An expert? Not hardly!

 

[numbersman]

The thing is, though... okay, I'll grant you-- you obviously know your stuff when it comes to the Bible. But everyone (even different denominations) interprets the Bible differently. You obviously believe in the strictest of possible interpretations of the Bible (even literal interpretations!) I am a Christian myself, but I don't agree with the notion that you are going to Hell if you haven't converted to Christianity at the time you die.

This is one of the oldest theological debates, but I don't think you can find the answer here on the Dis.

I'll grant you, everyone DOES interpret the Bible differently. And while some things are open to interpretation, it also needs to be granted that some things are also MIS-interpreted. I believe the best interpretation of Scripture is Scripture itself. Sometimes literal (as written), and sometimes not (if symbolic or figurative). I don't ALWAYS use a literal interpretation.

As you state you're a Christian, I would be curious to know why you don't agree with the notion that one goes to hell if they haven't converted to Christianity at the time they die. However, I understand if you would rather not discuss as well, but I am nonetheless curious.

 

[numbersman]

To me, this, as most things regarding the Bible are open to interpretation.

I dont pretend to know the absolute answer to the OPS question but I will tell you what I hope for and believe.

I hope that they are there but I believe if they arent Heaven will still be the most amazing place and we wont long for them or mourn them anymore. I think when our souls reach heaven they will have everything we long for there. I think what we long for there though will be far different than we want here.

While I don't think that "most" things regarding the Bible are open to interpretation, though I do believe some are, I do wholeheartedly agree with Binny's last paragraph above. Well said.

 

[MzDiz]

Amazingly enough, God is fair, but is not always logical, as humans understand logic!

But again, what seems illogical to humans makes perfect sense to God.

Don't mind me... I'm just thinking out loud here...

I'm not a christian. Most of the bible makes no sense to me. Seriously, it's like it's written in riddle and no one knows what the heck it means. For the record, I have read it, cover to cover.

Saying that it makes sense to god, because it doesn't make sense to you... well, makes no sense.

You remind me of Vizzini from the Princess Bride though. I keep expecting you to say "inconcievable!"
Just teasin, heh.

 

[Puffy2]

absolutely.