Do you know someone who doesn't drive by choice?

[NotUrsula]

Cabbies go at your schedule, I dunno anyone who does tour buses, there's no place buses, trains or cabs don't go besides like, McMurdo Station, and I don't get the allure of seeing things via a car vs. anyplace else.

I mean... if someone says oh, in rural wherever, in the middle of noplace, there's no public transit and cabs are scarce... is that really someplace anyone is vacationing?

Most places anyone I know vacations, there're plentiful transit options.

The 'my own schedule' thing I think can become a fixation for some people - it's like the idea of taking transit is scary or makes them anxious. A guy I know lived on Long Island and had a car always wanted to drive in to NYC, because then he "wouldn't have to wait" for a train and could leave "on his own schedule," though he routinely ended up stuck in traffic that meant he spent twice as long to get here or home than he would've on the train.

After once coming in and not being able to find parking but like 60 blocks from where he was going and thus ending up on the train AND paying $10 or whatever for the toll and the next time driving in to a Knicks game, driving over a construction thing, blowing a tire and then getting stuck in traffic for 45 minutes before getting out of the City, he finally gave up and took the train in from then on.

Oh, come now; there are plenty of places even in metro NYC that cabs don't go unless you book them in advance. I've lost count of the times that I've been tossed out of a NYC cab when the cabbie found out that I wanted to be taken to someplace on Long Island. Manhattan cabbies tend to want to stay in Manhattan if they can, especially if it's cold or raining; they make a lot more money on short fares and tips than they will driving out 9 miles for a fare that they won't be able to turn on the way back.
(And yeah, I know that they are not supposed to do it, but they do. I remember trying to get my aunt home from Lennox Hill once in the middle of the Xmas shopping season; THREE cabs in a row all managed to develop "engine trouble" within 2 blocks of the hospital. My aunt was a lifelong NY'er who had never driven and had no idea what a healthy engine does or does not sound like. Not the case with me. Those cabs no more had engine trouble than chickens have teeth; the engines were purring very nicely. If I hadn't been dealing with an elderly sick woman I might have taken the tag and made a scene, but it wasn't worth it at the time.)

I will agree that public transit is definitely preferable in most cases to using your own vehicle in a city like NYC, but for the vast majority of Americans, being able to drive yourself where you need to go is a necessity if you don't want to burn time or money in an absolutely ridiculous way. For one thing, cab fares in cities where cabs are little-used tend to be very high, and distances in suburbia are greater than in center cities. (If my elderly MIL needs to visit her doctor and one of us cannot take her, the r/t cab fare is $146 because it is 36 miles r/t. Now, she *could* use buses to make the trip, but it would take 5 hours r/t, assuming that they are running on time, which isn't a very good bet, and let's not even discuss the 4 transfers each way that she would have to navigate through.) My DH could easily take a train to work, and has, because we live within walking distance of a station and there is another one on the same line a block from his office. However, I work in suburbia, and if I tried to do it I would be spending 6 hours per day on the bus to go a total of 22 miles -- I could walk it faster than that.

As to where one would vacation that required a vehicle: the most obvious are camping, hunting or fishing. You can walk in, of course, but most modern Americans cannot spare the time that takes. The town where I spent my high school years has no public transit, and the nearest cab dispatch is 30 miles away. They won't come out unless you pay a 60-mile fare in advance by CC just to get them there, and even then the wait is normally several hours before they can come out to you. Even in the city where I now live (same one as Gumbo, btw, with a metro pop. of 2.25M), getting a cab on Christmas Eve requires calling at least a week in advance -- there just are not that many of them relative to the size of the population, and they book solid for peak times. It's not at all like getting a cab in the City.

FWIW, my mother didn't drive, and it was a huge PITA for everyone around her in the rural area where she ended up living for the final 40 years of her life. (She had tried to learn to drive, but never could get the hang of it; she got into a wreck every time she got behind the wheel.)

 

[PrincessSuzanne]

I am capable of driving, I have a valid license, but I choose not to, especially at night, unless I absolutely have to. DH and I have 1 vehicle and work opposite shifts, so it works for the most part.

We don't live in the area of town where public transportation comes, but I guess if I HAD to, I could call a cab. I could possibly get a friend to take me somwhere if need be.

 

[kirstenb1]

There are, however, cabs.

I guess so....they could drive you all the way from the Norfolk airport to your beach rental home. I just don't think I've ever seen a cab in the vacation home rental area. I guess in theory, one could also rent a cab to take you to the Outer Banks but it would just be strange.

To put it in your own backyard, the DIS has a lot of northerners who go to the Jersey Shore. Seriously, don't most people drive their cars to get there?

 

[BeckyEsq]

I've known several. Driving is a huge responsibility and not everyone is up for it. I respect that and it is better for the safety of everyone on the roads not to have nervous drivers out there if they don't need to be. I drive out of necessity and not for pleasure. I always say there's a reason why wealthy people have drivers!

 

[cornflake]

I guess so....they could drive you all the way from the Norfolk airport to your beach rental home. I just don't think I've ever seen a cab in the vacation home rental area. I guess in theory, one could also rent a cab to take you to the Outer Banks but it would just be strange.

To put it in your own backyard, the DIS has a lot of northerners who go to the Jersey Shore. Seriously, don't most people drive their cars to get there?

People from Jersey go to the Jersey shore - people from Jersey tend to have cars, except like, people in Newark or whatever, who probably aren't going to the shore.

People from NYC don't go to the Jersey shore. I've never met anyone not from or in Jersey who has ( I'm sure SOMEONE has but you know what I mean). We go to the Hamptons (take the Jitney or the LIRR), or Fire Island or what have you, if we're talking about the same type of trip, and you don't need a car.

As to the above longer post - I didn't say it was similarly convenient everywhere; nor did I ever suggest that people in rural areas generally live happily without cars. It'd obviously be harder there - though cabs do exist. The arguments about there come up when people kept insisting that it was necessary to drive because what if one went someplace more rural. Options exist.

Here, it's more convenient not to. Cabs often don't want to go to the outer boroughs yeah. That's why you don't tell them where you're going before you get in and while I understand the particular circumstance you describe (and though I don't doubt you, I don't think that many is usual - in my experience actually arguing the point or trying to weasel out of the trip is rare, it's more likely just a sigh because they know if you got in before saying, you know better), in most cases, someone will just get loud or get out a phone to call the TLC and all is resolved. Again, how often is this an issue - a visitor to or resident of NYC needs to drive because what if they want to go to the outer bouroughs and can't, for whatever reason, get the train or a bus and need a cab immediately and might have to wait a couple minutes to get one will go without an argument? I mean... this doesn't come close to the inconvenience of having a car here.

As to the vacation spots - ok, I have no idea how camping works or where it is. I don't think I know anyone who's done that though I know people who've gone up to the Adirondacks or what have you to look around or climb, but they just take a train and go someplace near where they want to be.

All I'm saying is HERE, it's not a deal, no one needs a car and for people here who don't drive, I've never known it to be a deal when travelling other places. If someone lives another, very car-centric place, yes, I suspect that'd be a big deal to not drive, but not impossible.

 

[HelenePA]

My brother doesn't drive and its honestly a PITA!! We live in a VERY rural area to get anywhere good you NEED to drive. forget cabs forget buses... everything good is at least an hour away...

 

[doxdogy]

People from Jersey go to the Jersey shore - people from Jersey tend to have cars, except like, people in Newark or whatever, who probably aren't going to the shore.

People from NYC don't go to the Jersey shore. I've never met anyone not from or in Jersey who has ( I'm sure SOMEONE has but you know what I mean). We go to the Hamptons (take the Jitney or the LIRR), or Fire Island or what have you, if we're talking about the same type of trip, and you don't need a car.

As to the above longer post - I didn't say it was similarly convenient everywhere; nor did I ever suggest that people in rural areas generally live happily without cars. It'd obviously be harder there - though cabs do exist. The arguments about there come up when people kept insisting that it was necessary to drive because what if one went someplace more rural. Options exist.

Here, it's more convenient not to. Cabs often don't want to go to the outer boroughs yeah. That's why you don't tell them where you're going before you get in and while I understand the particular circumstance you describe (and though I don't doubt you, I don't think that many is usual - in my experience actually arguing the point or trying to weasel out of the trip is rare, it's more likely just a sigh because they know if you got in before saying, you know better), in most cases, someone will just get loud or get out a phone to call the TLC and all is resolved. Again, how often is this an issue - a visitor to or resident of NYC needs to drive because what if they want to go to the outer bouroughs and can't, for whatever reason, get the train or a bus and need a cab immediately and might have to wait a couple minutes to get one will go without an argument? I mean... this doesn't come close to the inconvenience of having a car here.

As to the vacation spots - ok, I have no idea how camping works or where it is. I don't think I know anyone who's done that though I know people who've gone up to the Adirondacks or what have you to look around or climb, but they just take a train and go someplace near where they want to be.

All I'm saying is HERE, it's not a deal, no one needs a car and for people here who don't drive, I've never known it to be a deal when travelling other places. If someone lives another, very car-centric place, yes, I suspect that'd be a big deal to not drive, but not impossible.

My father was from Newark and use to have family living in Newark and they all had cars. Personally I drive as little as possible, I view it like a cell phone a necessary evil.

 

[cornflake]

My father was from Newark and use to have family living in Newark and they all had cars. Personally I drive as little as possible, I view it like a cell phone a necessary evil.

I'm sure many do - it was just a shorthand for the most urbanized, and now in many places very poor, area of Jersey I could think of. Wasn't meaning to suggest no one in Newark had cars, sorry, just meant I presume most people in Jersey do, except perhaps those in very urbanized Jersey.

 

[NotUrsula]

As to the above longer post - I didn't say it was similarly convenient everywhere; nor did I ever suggest that people in rural areas generally live happily without cars. It'd obviously be harder there - though cabs do exist. The arguments about there come up when people kept insisting that it was necessary to drive because what if one went someplace more rural. Options exist.

Options SOMETIMES exist. My home town has a city 30 miles away that is big enough to support a cab service, but many small towns don't. When the nearest city of any size is over about 75 miles away, cab services are generally nonexistant. One depends upon the kindness of friends and neighbors, and take it from me, if you have ever been in that position for an extended period of time, it is awful. It is the most embarassing and frustrating situation imaginable, for you and for those around you. When you live in the sticks and need a ride round-trip to get somewhere, you are asking for a large chunk of your driver's time. Most of the time that means that you don't go until they happen to be heading that way anyway, unless it is an emergency such as doctor visit or a court hearing.

As to the vacation spots - ok, I have no idea how camping works or where it is. I don't think I know anyone who's done that though I know people who've gone up to the Adirondacks or what have you to look around or climb, but they just take a train and go someplace near where they want to be.

That works in the Northeast where trains are plentiful and small stations are still open, but not so much in other areas. Greyhound might get you close, but you're still in the position of finding a ride to the trailhead, and hitching isn't really the greatest idea.

All I'm saying is HERE, it's not a deal, no one needs a car and for people here who don't drive, I've never known it to be a deal when travelling other places. If someone lives another, very car-centric place, yes, I suspect that'd be a big deal to not drive, but not impossible.

And you are right about the NYC metro area, but initially you were painting that idea with a much broader geographical brush.

IME, New Yorkers who don't know HOW to drive tend to avoid vacationing in places where driving is truly necessary to get around. I know a fair number of NY'ers who do not drive as a regular thing, but who do have licenses and who do know how to drive (most of them were either raised in the boroughs or spent an extended amount of time out of the city, such as summers with grandparents), and to them it's a simple matter to just rent a car if they need to use one when away from home. OWNING a car is usually a hugely bad idea for a city dweller, but even for a Manhattanite, having a license can come in mighty handy at times.

As to impossible: that's kind of a complicated thing. Generally speaking, if you live outside a public transit area and cannot drive, and your extended family isn't willing or able to take up the slack, you are not going to be living a very productive life. Your job prospects will be severely limited and possibly non-existant, and you will either have to move or go onto public assistance of some kind in order to keep the roof over your head. In that situation getting together $200 for a cab ride to a hardware store might as well be financing a trip to the moon. So, impossible? Not in the literal sense, but it is an extremely difficult life situation in most cases unless you can manage to never need to leave home, and it causes a lot of resentment in the people around you if it is happening not because you CANNOT drive or cannot afford a car, but because you simply prefer not to do so.

 

[Pixiedust34]

I can't imagine being a SAHM and not driving. I'm a SAHM and I feel like we are never home! Drs apts, preschool, grocery shopping, etc. I couldn't function if I didn't drive.

I agree. We always have someplace to go. I guess not driving would work OK if you live within walking distance to a bus stop or subway, but there are just so many places we have to drive the kids to for various reasons.

I have a cousin, in her late 20s, that doesn't drive. No kids yet, but if they do have kids they don't live near good public transportation so I'm not sure how she'd take the kids to all the places they need to go (pediatrician, dentist, eye doctor, orthodontist, ER visits, various specialists--not to mention sports, PTA meetings, b-day parties, playdates, etc.).

 

[crazyme5kids]

Cornflake, the more you post, the more I know you are not from the city. You may go to school there, but raised there? No, I think not. I'm beginning to think you barely no anyone who is a true New Yorker (born and raised in the city, or long time resident).

There are indeed people from the city who go to The Jersey Shore. If the don't drive, they take a train or a bus.

There are people who live in the city who do indeed drive out to the Hamptons.

Why, I even know people from the city who have beach houses in Conn! And guess what? They drive their cars.

I know someone who lives in the city who likes to spend time in Vermont (you are familiar with Vermont, right?), and he drives.

I know someone who lives in the city who climbs. He drives upstate for that.

I know, shocking, isn't it?

 

[gina2000]

Most NYers I know do have licenses but very rarely drive. Car rentals at vacation spots is the primary reason they keep licenses. Taking the jitney/train/helicopter to the Hamptons is convenient - but judging from the traffic on Friday night trying to get out to the Hamptons, I'd say that there are quite a few people who do drive out.


I have also known several people who kept cars in NYC though the monthly garage cost is prohibitive. If you live in the boroughs, street parking is at a premium. Hedge and wedge up and down the streets for the most part.

My SIL is a reluctant driver. She grew up in Queens and lived a great portion of her life in Manhattan. She has a license but hates driving. She now lives in Hoboken and does drive under duress.

I guess it's all what you get used to. My mother learned to drive in the
1940s at the earliest possible age- she was the first among her friends to drive. I live in the burbs and have always driven - and will drive in NYC. I have friends who drive in every day. Is it necessary? No but when you work odd hours or car pool, it can be done as economically as taking a train.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Cabbies go at your schedule, I dunno anyone who does tour buses, there's no place buses, trains or cabs don't go besides like, McMurdo Station, and I don't get the allure of seeing things via a car vs. anyplace else.

I mean... if someone says oh, in rural wherever, in the middle of noplace, there's no public transit and cabs are scarce... is that really someplace anyone is vacationing?

Most places anyone I know vacations, there're plentiful transit options.

You can't possibly be serious. I picture you sitting at home giggling over how much you're messing with me. I seem to recall you stating you went on the great American road trip & were disappointed with the lack of lights at Rushmore & the lack of meat-free pancakes in Wyoming. Do you honestly consider cabs a legitimate form of transportation in any of those places? I doubt you do

The 'my own schedule' thing I think can become a fixation for some people - it's like the idea of taking transit is scary or makes them anxious.

Where other options - legitimate options - exist, yes. It is silly. Sunday, I wanted to go put a trail cam up at deer camp. Hiring a limo, waiting an hour for it to show up, and then paying the guy several hundred bucks to haul me 15 miles was one option. Driving my own vehicle was the other. I bet you can guess which I chose, and convenience was only one factor.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

As to the above longer post - I didn't say it was similarly convenient everywhere; nor did I ever suggest that people in rural areas generally live happily without cars. It'd obviously be harder there - though cabs do exist. The arguments about there come up when people kept insisting that it was necessary to drive because what if one went someplace more rural. Options exist.

Cabs do exist in small towns - say 15,000 people or more. Any smaller than that & you're SOL. And forget about trying to get anywhere OUT of town. Because traffic is light & there are no fees to park, everyone owns their own cars & just drives themselves. So, the demand for cabs is so low as to make them pretty much non-existent. My grandmother utilized the cab quite a bit toward the end of her life after she got her apartment. The cabbie loved her - she was almost half his business. And when I say "the cabbie", I do mean THE cabbie, as in the only one in town

As to the vacation spots - ok, I have no idea how camping works or where it is. I don't think I know anyone who's done that though I know people who've gone up to the Adirondacks or what have you to look around or climb, but they just take a train and go someplace near where they want to be.

Cabs, buses, and trains won't even get you within 20 miles of the woods in most parts of the country. But, your point about not knowing anyone who camps is telling. Though your circle of friends may function that way, I know plenty of urban folks who absolutely love the outdoors. And their ability to enjoy wild places would be severely limited if they couldn't drive.

All I'm saying is HERE, it's not a deal, no one needs a car and for people here who don't drive, I've never known it to be a deal when travelling other places. If someone lives another, very car-centric place, yes, I suspect that'd be a big deal to not drive, but not impossible.

Not having a car is an entirely different thing than not driving though. With a license, at least you could borrow or rent a car. Without, well you're dependent on everyone else.

 

[cornflake]

Cornflake, the more you post, the more I know you are not from the city. You may go to school there, but raised there? No, I think not. I'm beginning to think you barely no anyone who is a true New Yorker (born and raised in the city, or long time resident).

There are indeed people from the city who go to The Jersey Shore. If the don't drive, they take a train or a bus.

There are people who live in the city who do indeed drive out to the Hamptons.

Why, I even know people from the city who have beach houses in Conn! And guess what? They drive their cars.

I know someone who lives in the city who likes to spend time in Vermont (you are familiar with Vermont, right?), and he drives.

I know someone who lives in the city who climbs. He drives upstate for that.

I know, shocking, isn't it?

Considering you're NOT in the City, that assessment carries....

Did I say no one here knows how to drive or ever drives? Nope. I do not nor have I ever met anyone here who would go to the Jersey shore, no. It's in New Jersey.

Not having a car is an entirely different thing than not driving though. With a license, at least you could borrow or rent a car. Without, well you're dependent on everyone else.

Only if you go, like, on a work trip to Noplace, Kansas and there aren't cabs within 100 miles. Which was the original point we were discussing.

Many people who do not and cannot drive have never seen or found any particular reason to and aren't dependent on other people. That was the original point. Somehow now people are acting as if I said people all over the U.S. don't drive and it's not any inconvenience and etc.

I know plenty of people who don't and can't drive. None of them camp, no. I don't know anyone who camps, afaik. Yes, these are the people I know. I am not suggesting no one camps. I don't think it's a particularly common activity for NYers to go on a camping vacation in Wyoming or whatever. Doesn't mean no one ever has but I've not run into one. Yes, I have been to Wyoming. I was not camping, I don't have any desire to go back, god knows.

I've known, and know, many, many people who have never had a license. None of them seem to find it hampering. They go on vacations, they travel for work, they do whatever and it causes no issues. There are many people in the thread saying the exact same thing about people they know and themselves.

I'm not saying they go to Noplace, Kansas on the weekends to go camping and it's no inconvenience. They don't.

This is like you saying you don't know people who can tell you what subway line to take from X to Y and me saying that's ridiculous because everyone knows that. We're talking about different groups with different lives and lifestyles.

The thread was about whether people know anyone who doesn't/can't drive. A number of us, mostly from large cities in the NE, said yes. Others expressed doubt that that was really a feasible, not inconvenient lifestyle. Well, lots of people find no inconvenience to it at all. Doesn't mean YOU wouldn't find it inconvenient in your area, in your life. They're fine over here, and fine on trips and etc.

 

[badblackpug]

Oh, I would LOVE to chime in.

I do know people who don't drive at all. They live in the city and they take mostly public transit. The majority of people I know do know how to drive. Some do not own cars because of the expense and inconvenience in the city, but they do have a license and they rent a car if they are going somewhere where public transport isn't convenient and cabs are not available. ...and, yes, those places exist. I have never seen a train, cab, or public transit bus tooling through Yosemite National Park, Sequoia National Park, or Grand Canyon National Park.

...and...EWW... I spent every summer of my childhood on the Jersey Shore, yes in EWWWW ... NEW JERSEY. Let me tell you, New Yorkers were as common as greenhead flies.

 

[cornflake]

Oh, I would LOVE to chime in.

I do know people who don't drive at all. They live in the city and they take mostly public transit. The majority of people I know do know how to drive. Some do not own cars because of the expense and inconvenience in the city, but they do have a license and they rent a car if they are going somewhere where public transport isn't convenient and cabs are not available. ...and, yes, those places exist. I have never seen a train, cab, or public transit bus tooling through Yosemite National Park, Sequoia National Park, or Grand Canyon National Park.

...and...EWW... I spent every summer of my childhood on the Jersey Shore, yes in EWWWW ... NEW JERSEY. Let me tell you, New Yorkers were as common as greenhead flies.

Ew. Nyers or people from Staten Island and LI?

 

[IloveDMB]

Ew. Nyers or people from Staten Island and LI?

Okay, so I think I've got this figured out.

You grew up somewhere in the Northeast, perhaps upstate, or even heaven forbid New Jersey. You were accepted and go to school in the city, probably Columbia (congrats on that, by the way). You move to the city and a common affliction that happens, you become "city affected." As in NYC is the be all and end all, and you are now an expert.

Except you don't really know everything about the city or the people that live there, and most of what you post is wrong.

I could dispute everything you've written, as I've also lived and practiced in the city, but others have already done that, and you've either ignored them or tried to prove them wrong.

 

[badblackpug]

Ew. Nyers or people from Staten Island and LI?

I know I'm just a tacky, little git from the vast cultural wasteland that is not NYC, so what could I possibly know, but I will tell you that we own shore property and have rented to plenty of New yorkers.

Yes, shore property in the disgusting swamp known as New Jersey.

Now let me go fry up that possum the young'uns was wanting for vittles.

 

[allison443]

Okay, so I think I've got this figured out.

You grew up somewhere in the Northeast, perhaps upstate, or even heaven forbid New Jersey. You were accepted and go to school in the city, probably Columbia (congrats on that, by the way). You move to the city and a common affliction that happens, you become "city affected." As in NYC is the be all and end all, and you are now an expert.

Except you don't really know everything about the city or the people that live there, and most of what you post is wrong.

I could dispute everything you've written, as I've also lived and practiced in the city, but others have already done that, and you've either ignored them or tried to prove them wrong.

The bolded is so true!