Do People really believe this?

[DawnCt1]

Actually, both statements are true, aren't they?

The church's official doctrine states life begins at conceptions, I think everyoe knows that.

But the individual church members, which also are "the church", are conflicted, especially in the US.

Is the church the people, the doctrine, the Pope or the building? And how do we know to which Pelosi was referring?

Certainly one definition of "church" is the "body of its membership."

She specifically talked about church officials being conflicted. Look for the interview. Its easy enough to find.

 

[Alaska DogCat]

Nancy Pelosi for example, feels she is a "good Catholic" and then she did at least two interviews in which she said that even the Catholic Church is conflicted about when life begins". That isn't true at all. The Catholic Church is very direct in their stand about when life begins. It begins at conception.

The Catholic Church is also very direct in its opposition to the death penalty and its opposition to the war in Iraq. Does that many Sarah Palin and John McCain are the candidates of death? The current pope in also none too enamored with capitalism. Does that mean a political leader who supports capitalism is afoul of the Catholic Church and can't call themselves a Catholic?

As you are no doubt aware, there are Catholic Theologians who disagree when life begins. The Magesterium of the Church has taken the stance that life does begin at conception, but this does not mean there are no differing positions. We also have a separation of church and state in our secular nation, so a political leader could take a stance on supporting the law of the land (choice) while holding another spiritual belief.

I am also sure that you are also aware that the first law of the Roman Catholic Church (as promulgated through Canon Law) is the primacy of conscience--that all adherents to the faith must follow their conscience above all other teaching and law. Throughout its history, the Catholic Church has fought against ideas and philsophy and logic that have later become part of its dogma and teaching. Saint Augustine leaps to mind as does Saint Francis. While these men suffered condemnation for their thoughts and beliefs by the Church, they are revered today as a scholar and model of service. As Augustine put much more eloquently in his prelude to 'City of God,' there are many paths to the one true God.

 

[Alaska DogCat]

Actually, both statements are true, aren't they?

The church's official doctrine states life begins at conceptions, I think everyoe knows that.

But the individual church members, which also are "the church", are conflicted, especially in the US.

Is the church the people, the doctrine, the Pope or the building? And how do we know to which Pelosi was referring?

Certainly one definition of "church" is the "body of its membership."

 

[Chuck S]

She specifically talked about church officials being conflicted. Look for the interview. Its easy enough to find.

You mean this? It seems quite reasonable to me, and I'm not a big Pelosi supporter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8FmLCm2CiI

There have been conflicts over the history of the church as to defining when life begins.

 

[Goofycampers]

Well what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The Right Wing Christians have met their match.

Seriously I think of the Christian religion as insane right now so don't see too much difference.

If you want to think about that, the fact that he is in such a "radical Church" if you will, may appeal to people on a certain level. Maybe?

None of it appeals to me so you understand my issue. All churches look nuts to me right now. I am not knocking your method of faith, to each his own.

Pray for Obama lose, Abortion to be eradicated, whatever....I don't see prayer as something that you order thru the Drive-Thru.

I am more of a meditative, finding peace thru quiet "prayer", instead of a laundry list.

I find it extremely insulting that you call all "right wing Christinans" insane. If you care to look the vast majority of this country consider themselves Christians. Our country was founded on Christian principles. Their are lunatics on BOTH sides of the aisle but I think you are being a little narrow minded. Clearly you need to meditate a little longer. One prayer at a rally is hardly comparable to 20 years with a pastor with many sermons. EVERYONE knows he's LYING when he says he didn't hear them. PLEASE. if you believe this I've got some prime swamp land to sell you.

 

[Chuck S]

I find it extremely insulting that you call all "right wing Christinans" insane. If you care to look the vast majority of this country consider themselves Christians. Our country was founded on Christian principles. Their are lunatics on BOTH sides of the aisle but I think you are being a little narrow minded. Clearly you need to meditate a little longer. One prayer at a rally is hardly comparable to 20 years with a pastor with many sermons. EVERYONE knows he's LYING when he says he didn't hear them. PLEASE. if you believe this I've got some prime swamp land to sell you.

Actually, I think the problem with Mystery Machines post, and the term "Christian" in general, is there is no true, sole, definition of "Christian." There are just too many sects to paint them all with one brush. Christianity is much more than "one religion" just as Disney World is much more than the Magic Kingdom.

There are "Right Wing" Christians, "Conservative" Christians, "Liberal" Christians, "Left Wing" Christians, as many different types of Christians as there are people. And the biggest problem, to me, is when one type of "Christian" points their finger at another and says that they aren't a "real Christian."

But I also have a problem in saying one prayer at a rally isn't the same as 20 years in a church. Isn't one prayer like that too many? Just as one visit to that type of church too many? Like being "just a little bit" pregnant.

 

[Holly]

I find it extremely insulting that you call all "right wing Christinans" insane. If you care to look the vast majority of this country consider themselves Christians. Our country was founded on Christian principles. Their are lunatics on BOTH sides of the aisle but I think you are being a little narrow minded. Clearly you need to meditate a little longer. One prayer at a rally is hardly comparable to 20 years with a pastor with many sermons. EVERYONE knows he's LYING when he says he didn't hear them. PLEASE. if you believe this I've got some prime swamp land to sell you.

I find it odd that someone would criticize another poster for being judgmental and then judge someone else in the same paragraph.

Over that twenty years Wright gave how many sermons? How many of those were controversial? How may of the controversial ones did Barack Obama hear?

No one knows but Obama, so the two choices are to believe him or judge him and accuse him of being a liar. I have chosen the first choice, because that's what I believe Jesus would do.

 

[Goofycampers]

I agree that from what you all have said the prayer may have been inappropriate, I didn't hear it so I really don't know what was said. But being a Christian does not = radical, and I'm really getting tired of the the left trying to paint all conservatives as far right whackos. There are finatics on both sides of the aisle. I certainly wouldn't condone racism or violence to advance a political agenda.

 

[gaelic grace]

How do you know that was the first and only time this minister said something like this?

Do you have transcripts of the 1000+ sermons that Rev Wright gave over 20 years to prove that every sermon Obama heard while in attendance was inappropriate, racist, and/or anti-American?

I don't but I have no doubt that if they exist they will be on every media outlet in the next few days. I will reserve judgment until that point. If Obama had been a member of the Reverend Wright's church and left before he ran for office or had only been a member for a short time these might be comparable situations. He was not only a member for 20 years but he went beyond that to say he was a very important figure in his life. I can't give the same amount of weight to one prayer. If there is more than that comes out I am free to change my mind. I don't believe that every sermon Rev. Wright gave was inappropriate. In fact I believe most of them weren't. I also am very familiar with the African-American church and realize that many of the things that people are uncomfortable with are cultural and have been taken out of context. However, Rev. Wright has carried it to an extreme that very few people can justify. I think Senator Obama used poor judgement just as I feel his relationship with Mr. Ayers is poor judgement. Just as I believe Keeting 5 was an example of poor judgement for John McCain. I believe that everyone has exhibited poor judgement during their lives and many of us wouldn't want those things exposed. I will weigh the judgement of both men along with many other things when I make my final decision. What I won't do is make apologies for either in situations where they are wrong.

 

[Goofycampers]

I find it odd that someone would criticize another poster for being judgmental and then judge someone else in the same paragraph.

Over that twenty years Wright gave how many sermons? How many of those were controversial? How may of the controversial ones did Barack Obama hear?

No one knows but Obama, so the two choices are to believe him or judge him and accuse him of being a liar. I have chosen the first choice, because that's what I believe Jesus would do.

I didn't say I felt criticized, I said INSULTED. And no I don't KNOW how many sermons he listened to but I'd be willing to bet he heard plenty. A person who said the kind of things Wright said isn't just mild mannered most of the time and then all of a sudden when Barak Obama isn't in church ramps up the message. You're kidding right? Are you guys like brain washed or something? Get real . Like your canidate, but reallize who you're voting for -faults and all.

 

[Holly]

I didn't say I felt criticized, I said INSULTED. And no I don't KNOW how many sermons he listened to but I'd be willing to bet he heard plenty. A person who said the kind of things Wright said isn't just mild mannered most of the time and then all of a sudden when Barak Obama isn't in church ramps up the message. You're kidding right? Are you guys like brain washed or something? Get real . Like your canidate, but reallize who you're voting for -faults and all.

Get real?

I'm a lesbian. People sit in church every week and listen to their religious leaders say all kinds of nasty things about me and people like me. Millions listened to Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson when they blamed homosexuals and witches for 9/11, and still continued to support them and hateful religious leaders like them.

Am I concerned that Obama sat in Church and heard Reverend Wright talking about black anger, white resentment, and saying God damn America for its racism?

About as concerned as I am with ANY religious politician who controls my country and sits in church every single week and listens to hate spilling from the pulpit.

 

[Chuck S]

And no I don't KNOW how many sermons he listened to but I'd be willing to bet he heard plenty. A person who said the kind of things Wright said isn't just mild mannered most of the time and then all of a sudden when Barak Obama isn't in church ramps up the message. You're kidding right? Are you guys like brain washed or something? Get real . Like your canidate, but reallize who you're voting for -faults and all.

I agree with you there, as a former Hillary supporter and delegate, I really had to weigh the Obama and the Wright thing against McCain and his campaign.

I also considered that McCain solicited Hagee for an endorsement, and the choice of Palin as a VP.

I decided to Vote Obama, not because I like him (I don't) but I think between the two he is still the best choice. I'm very liberal socially, but fiscally conservative. I want the government to stay out of my personal life, stay out of my finances, but insure regular savings and checking accounts - if I make a risky investment, it is my risk, don't bail me out, give us reasonably priced, good health care, promote the general welfare of all the people without mandating their morals. Yet stop spending every dime you can get your hands on, protect the environment, and make us a financially sound country.

Neither candidate meets that criteria. I look at both McCain and Obama, and think to myself, these really can't be the best America has to offer.

 

[BuckNaked]

I was brought up in my Christian church that asking God to grant your wish was using the Lord's name in vain.

What your church teaches is really of no concern to me.

 

[BuckNaked]

Interesting, as I've never seen either of them try to give the impression they are presenting official church doctrine about anything. I'm pretty sure almost every breathing American knows the Catholic church is officially opposed to legal abortion. But yes, let's have him attack the entire Democratic party. But then, by the same token, I'm sure he'd also be agreeable to holding the entire Catholic church equally responsible for the actions of some of their clergy.

Nancy Pelosi actually did speak during an interview on a Sunday talk show (I can't remember which one, but I want to say "This Week", on ABC) about Catholic church doctrine, and she made statements about the doctrine and what it teaches that were incorrect. It was shortly afterward that Archbishop Wuerl of Washington DC and another archbishop (Denver, perhaps?) came out and stated that she was incorrect. The Denver archbishop even went so far as to say that though she may be very knowledgable in many areas, apparently Catholic doctrine wasn't one of them.

 

[Uncle Remus]

Get real?

I'm a lesbian. People sit in church every week and listen to their religious leaders say all kinds of nasty things about me and people like me. Millions listened to Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson when they blamed homosexuals and witches for 9/11, and still continued to support them and hateful religious leaders like them.

Am I concerned that Obama sat in Church and heard Reverend Wright talking about black anger, white resentment, and saying God damn America for its racism?

About as concerned as I am with ANY religious politician who controls my country and sits in church every single week and listens to hate spilling from the pulpit.

Hallelujah 'n Amen!

Sure would be American if candidates could get away from the religious reich
as there should be no religious test to run for office in this country.

 

[Alaska DogCat]

What your church teaches is really of no concern to me.

Of course not. You certainly would not want to consider what someone else's interpretation or experience is.

 

[BuckNaked]

But I also have a problem in saying one prayer at a rally isn't the same as 20 years in a church. Isn't one prayer like that too many? Just as one visit to that type of church too many? Like being "just a little bit" pregnant.

I haven't heard the prayer, so I can't speak as to whether it was hateful or not. But to answer your question, yes, one hateful prayer is too many. However, there is no comparison to one hateful prayer and 20 years of hate being spewed from the pulpit by a racist.

 

[creativeamanda]

What your church teaches is really of no concern to me.

I think this is a very intolerant view. What the poster was trying to get at (I think) is that not all people who go to church feel that the election should be preached from the pulpit.

IMO, the person who does become president will be the person who God wills to be in office. Others are free not to share my belief and that is fine. But I have concerns about anyone who chooses to disregard another's feelings/beliefs as valid.

 

[BuckNaked]

Of course not. You certainly would not want to consider what someone else's interpretation or experience is.

I'm not questioning your interpretation or the teachings of your church. I'm simply saying they don't apply to me, so I'm in no way bound to follow them.

 

[Goofycampers]

Get real?

I'm a lesbian. People sit in church every week and listen to their religious leaders say all kinds of nasty things about me and people like me. Millions listened to Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson when they blamed homosexuals and witches for 9/11, and still continued to support them and hateful religious leaders like them.

Am I concerned that Obama sat in Church and heard Reverend Wright talking about black anger, white resentment, and saying God damn America for its racism?

About as concerned as I am with ANY religious politician who controls my country and sits in church every single week and listens to hate spilling from the pulpit.

Please don't try to bring Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson into this. I detest the things the two of them have said. That still doesn't excuse a canidate for the presidency sitting in the pew for TWENTY YEARS listening to that garbage. If McCain sat in Jerry Falwell's church for 20 years I would NOT vote for him. BTW your sexual orientation is of no concern to me.