Do I let this go or make a phone call? (teacher related)

[npmommie]

Fast forward to today. DD has been staying after for extra help in Chem. Wasn't going to stay after today because Mrs. Smith went off on the class. No one has above an 80 average & that "disgusts her". She told them that the Atomic Theory takes most teachers 2 days to teach & she is "bored to tears" because it has taken her over a week to teach & the kids still aren't understanding it.

I guess one of the girls asked if there was another method she could use to teach it because they were having a hard time. Mrs. Smith didn't like that & according to DD (who I know is a dramatic teenage) said Mrs. Smith pretty much called the class stupid & dumb for not understanding what she was teaching.

Now, while I don't think the student should question a teacher's teaching methods, my first thought was also that maybe the teacher should change her method. I know when I'm trying to teach something (dance teacher), if the students are grasping it I have to change the way I'm teaching it.

what I bolded in red is the deal breaker for me. being disgusted and calling the class stupid and dumb is not acceptable behaviour for a teacher. and why can't they question her teaching method? if it isn't working and apparently it is not since the class as a whole is having trouble, the teacher needs to rethink how she is teaching.

The teacher is calling the class stupid, not her dd. If the teacher had singled her out that is another matter to me.
My dd has had many teachers call them names. So I suppose we are from different areas.

Her PE coach calls them maggots and cusses....Oh how great it is to be back in Missouri.
I have to accept the lower standards here.

and this is ok because????????
No it is not ok, and I don't care if its the backwoods of where ever or the city, it is not ok to name call and belittle students.
why do i see numerous threads on this board about how people do not tolerate their kids calling each other stupid, but no one seems to take issue with a teacher, an adult no less, calling their child stupid???

why is this behaviour from teachers acceptable to parents? if you as an adult were called stupid at your job by another adult how would you react, what would you think and what would you do?
anyone, i am not just directing this at the quoted poster.

 

[shortbun]

Bottom line, your daughter needs to understand chemistry. Get her a tutor or ask the teacher for extra help so she knows everyone including your daughter is interested in learning chemistry. BTW, I've talked to many people who say the difference between private and public school students disappears after the first year of college. She's a snob but you have to deal with her. Flatter her and make sure your daughter learns what she needs to learn. Part of everyone's education is learning how the system works. In a few years when your daughter is alone at college, she'll need to know what to do on her own. Teach her now.

 

[SorcererDonald16]

I would try speaking with the teacher first. Policies differ from city to city, but my guess is the counselor will probably tell you to try and address the problem with the teacher. If that doesn't work, you go above the teacher's head and talk to her corresponding administrator. It's very important to document it if/when you talk to the teacher. That way if you end up talking to an admin, you can say "Here's what we tried, it didn't work because..."

No teacher has the right to call her class dumb or to take her frustrations out on them in that manner. As others said, if the majority of the class is not getting it, that should be a sign that she needs to try a different teaching tactic. Her comment about private school vs. public school was completely out of line. Unfortunately that is the attitude some people have. It was the same way when I was in a public HS; the private schools were seen as full of smart people, and it was all because they were in private school. I know a lot of people who attended private schools, and most of them are no more intelligent than people I know who went to public schools. Just an ignorant assumption of some people. And certainly not an assumption a teacher should be making! GL to you and your DD.

 

[agnes!]

I think this teacher needs to have her department supervisor or her subject mentor sit on on a few of her classes, or maybe even an administrator.

Unfortunately, I think you will have to find a tutor NOW. Yeah, it stinks to shell out money to make up for a teacher's deficiencies, but if your DD can't get transferred - if there isn't another teacher available, your DD *still* has to get a good grade.

Btw, if the entire class is not doing well and all the kids have the same experience with this teacher, then perhaps it's time for *everyone*(students, parents alike) to voice their thoughts on this teacher - first, to the teacher, second, to the department head and lastly, to the administration.

And one last thing...ALL contacts *must* be documented. Create a paper trail.

agnes!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

and this is ok because????????
No it is not ok, and I don't care if its the backwoods of where ever or the city, it is not ok to name call and belittle students.
why do i see numerous threads on this board about how people do not tolerate their kids calling each other stupid, but no one seems to take issue with a teacher, an adult no less, calling their child stupid???

why is this behaviour from teachers acceptable to parents? if you as an adult were called stupid at your job by another adult how would you react, what would you think and what would you do?
anyone, i am not just directing this at the quoted poster.

I did not say it was OK.... Unfortunately it is the norm, at least here. They have you over a barrel.
Hello.....my kid is not going to be the "example" or "Maverick". I am sorry, my kid needs to get in learn and get out. I am not going to go beat up on the school, unless it was very serious. Then that is different.

I have stepped in on several occasions when my dd is singled out or messing up. Both things have happened.

My dd's have learned to stand up for themselves and do what it takes. It is a skill that you do have to learn.

My first step is to try and get my dd's to handle the problem on their own, with my counsel of course.

It is a tough situation for the OP's dd. Calm approach and trying to work with the teacher has a better chance of success.

My end goal is success....in whatever form.

 

[*Robin*]

I haven't read all the responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone...but I think it's safe to say that if you do call, you will not have been the first...and yes, you should most definitely call.

There are hundreds of good teachers in every state that would be honored to be teaching your children. My best friend is one of them...she is just finishing up her masters and is afraid that she won't find a permanent job.

People like this should be given the chance to go teach exactly where they feel they are most needed. I would think the teacher would be thrilled to get her chance to leave such a horrible situation!

 

[MELSMICE]

If they don't learn the way you teach, then teach the way they learn.

That is a great comment.

It really is unacceptable for a teacher to be angry at a class when they don't understand something. If they feel that way, I am thinking teaching isn't the right career for them in the first place.

I am in total agreement.

I have numerous classes that I teach at my dance studio. Some are a lot more enjoyable to teach than others. One class in particular is full of kids that talk a lot & have a harder time grasping what I am trying to teach. It is very frustrating, but it helps me to practice my patience skills!!!

I have changed my teaching methods numerous times throughout the years to mesh differently with different classes. I guess that comes from experience, but I feel this teacher really needs to open her mind about different tactics.

 

[Camicar]

If we don't hold teachers accountable, then we have only ourselves to blame for poor education.

It is absolutely unacceptable for a teacher to call an entire class stupid. That is derogatory namecalling and unprofessional. Add to that the fact that no one in her class is getting above a 80 and you have an ineffective teacher.* I'd be making phone calls. There are more teachers than there are jobs, so the bad ones need to be weeded out so good ones can get the jobs. And since you pay taxes, you should not have to hire a separate tutor to accomodate her failures -- you're already paying her to do the job.


*And the notion that she needs to learn how to handle bad teachers bec it's inevitable that she'll get them in college is poppycock. It is still important on the college level for a professor to actually teach -- or else, you've gone to the wrong college. When I was teaching at the college level, it was MY JOB to ensure that the students acquired the information I was teaching. Just bec you are teaching at that level doesn't mean you get to do what you want how you want to do it -- you are still responsible and accountable for your students' learning. I once co-taught a class with another professor who, sadly, turned out to be a poor teacher. Good research, but could not impart his information to students at all bec he was more concerned with making himself look important. It became a real struggle bec after he would launch into one of his digressive and stultifying monologues, the students would all look at me and one of them would always ask, "Can you rephrase what he said for us, please?" Or they'd come in during my office hours for 'reteaching.' He got more and more agitated that the students 'liked' me better. Also poppycock. They liked my ability to actually TEACH them better. Several of the kids went to the department head, who spoke to him and told him that he'd gotten this complaint before and reminded him that his job was to teach. But he refused to change his style or methods, whereas from having been a math tutor for years, I knew that it was my job to check my ego at the door and find a way to teach so that the student can learn. PERIOD. At the end of the year on the evals, guess who get 10s and guess who got 1s and guess who was asked to teach again and who wasn't? Further proof that it's important to complain.

And after all, how many of us got thru our first years on the job without getting corrected by our supervisors or customers? None. Why should teachers be any different?

 

[scottishduffy]

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/tutorials/index.shtml


This site has tutorials and quizzes. Just when you get to the link click on Atoms and Ions to get to the material.

http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/intro/AT.html

This one looked good as well.

 

[Paull117]

This reminds me of College Prep English that teacher had it in for a lot of us. Eventually I ended up talking to the teacher that got me no where had my parents talk to her. Then I had the principal observe and show my work to other teachers in the school and my grade changed from a D to B+. She had a problem with boys in the class. I remember standing up to her and she gave me a detention at the time I was 19. I was held back in first grade, but came back and did really well and graduated HS with a 3.5 GPA taking College Prep Courses. Back to the story I went with her to the principle she gave me the detention in front of him she walks out of the room. We have a conversation and then he begins to show my work to other teachers in the school, and said we will see what they have to say. That got my grade changed eventually, she also got a lecture from the administration because it was not just me. As for the detention well it never happened.

One option that we had in school for seniors and juniors. The school had set up a program to take college level classes with the Community College some where in our building some where on the UW campus 30 miles away. So we had the option to take college classes instead of HS classes if you had the right grades and where already on that path.

Paul

 

[Took]

With a new teacher this is not true. Once a teacher has tenor maybe but phone calls & feed back from parents & students are how the schools
weed out awful teachers.

Your child might still be stuck with her but she will at least have the chance to change her teaching style.

I agree. The young need help--heaven knows I did! LOL

Also, the thing you're referring to is "tenure." Sorry, the teacher in me can't help it.

 

[scottishduffy]

*And the notion that she needs to learn how to handle bad teachers bec it's inevitable that she'll get them in college is poppycock. It is still important on the college level for a professor to actually teach -- or else, you've gone to the wrong college. When I was teaching at the college level, it was MY JOB to ensure that the students acquired the information I was teaching. Just bec you are teaching at that level doesn't mean you get to do what you want how you want to do it -- you are still responsible and accountable for your students' learning. I once co-taught a class with another professor who, sadly, turned out to be a poor teacher. Good research, but could not impart his information to students at all bec he was more concerned with making himself look important. It became a real struggle bec after he would launch into one of his digressive and stultifying monologues, the students would all look at me and one of them would always ask, "Can you rephrase what he said for us, please?" Or they'd come in during my office hours for 'reteaching.' He got more and more agitated that the students 'liked' me better. Also poppycock. They liked my ability to actually TEACH them better. Several of the kids went to the department head, who spoke to him and told him that he'd gotten this complaint before and reminded him that his job was to teach. But he refused to change his style or methods, whereas from having been a math tutor for years, I knew that it was my job to check my ego at the door and find a way to teach so that the student can learn. PERIOD. At the end of the year on the evals, guess who get 10s and guess who got 1s and guess who was asked to teach again and who wasn't? Further proof that it's important to complain.

Does the teacher have the right to call people stupid? Absolutely not, but there is almost NO WAY you can get through college without at least one of these types of teachers. Especially if you choose particular fields there are people who take pride in 'weeding out' students. They purposely intimidate, and make life a bit harder than needed. In undergrad there was a professor who consistently got poor reviews, there was a petition going around to try to get Mrs. Smith (Ha ha! same name is in OP's... maybe it's the name?) out of the teaching arena. No luck, the woman had tenure and could pretty much do what she felt.

I had another teacher say the FIRST day of class that if he did his job properly he would weed out and fail ~30%-40% of the class. Not exactly a warm and fuzzy greeting but what could you do? He was a popular teacher, and always stayed. He was in charge of all the pre-med people and was on a mission to find the best of the best. Some people really hated the guy becuase you HAD to pass through him to get to higher medical education and if you didn't pass that was the END for you. He was a jerk during office hours and wouldn't help you much. His statement "I'm not here to spoon feed you."

Most college teachers are wonderful. Had many great ones.... but there are jerks that sometimes due to their rank or tenure you just can't get rid of and have to deal with. Some teacher's take 'pride' in their flunk rates. Depending on what department they are in that may be acceptable. The higher sciences in college will accept a higher flunk rate.

Obviously OP is not here yet, this is a high school course but it may darn well happen again later in life. Heck, I also think everyone at some time has had a jerk manager or boss who just wasn't very good but ended up staying around much longer than they should have. Tis Life.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

If we don't hold teachers accountable, then we have only ourselves to blame for poor education.

Hard to do when your state sucks already. Come to Missouri where there is no accountability.

 

[agnes!]

I still stand by my comment that the parent should seriously consider hiring a tutor NOW (and also get pro-active regarding her high school student's learning, like utilizing the subject links provided upthread). These sorts of things can be done while everything else is shaking out - DD talking to teacher, DD talking to Admin, you + other parents talking to teacher/Admin. and whatever else might happen to try to change the classroom situation for the better. You might get everything improved...for the kids next year! Get the learning situation stabilized for your student now - you might even go in with some other students and share a tutor between a couple of families. DO NOT WAIT until the first quarter is over, until grades are in the system.

agnes!

 

[mousey]

Any chance of having your chld transferred to another class (teacher). Not all science teachers are great, believe me. I hope you don't have to put up with this teacher for the entire school year. She sounds like she is trying to come across as "tough". Her reputation is at stake because she is new. Good Luck!

 

[ZephyrHawk]

I went to a great school where 90% of the teachers were wonderful.

It was a small school, so I had most of the not-so-great 10% as well.

I had some teachers who belittled their classes. Even the good ones would do this when they knew we could perform better. I didn't take it personally. Even if I had there's a pretty good chance my mother (a teacher for 30 years herself) would never have taken my side in the issue.

Personally, I would tell my kids to just deal with it on their own. My boss (not the world's nicest guy) yells at people every day and belittles them. Often I'm in his line of fire. I try not to take it personally. I learned my lesson early on.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

OP can your DD start a study group? My dd has done this in the past.

As she starts college next semster we have drilled forming a group right away or getting in with one.

 

[MELSMICE]

Thanks for the links Scottishduffy. I will pass them along to my DD & make sure she uses them.

OP can your DD start a study group? My dd has done this in the past.

As she starts college next semster we have drilled forming a group right away or getting in with one.

This might be helpful. My one fear with that though is that my DD is pretty sociable & gets side tracked easily. She is the kind of kid that needs to sit down without any distractions to get homework done. Usually the dining room table is a good spot for her - no distractions!!! (TV, etc)

 

[MELSMICE]

Almost forgot - I did end up calling the counselor today, even though DD was going to speak to the teacher.

I told the counselor that I am not trying to get anyone in trouble & that is why I didn't go to the administration first. I said I would rather handle it with her (we have a very open communication with the counselor). Anyway, she said she would make sure to discreetly speak with the teacher to find our what is going on with her.

She also said she would speak with the department director & have her monitor & mentor her more closely. She said to contact her in a week if things aren't better.

I told her a big concern is the teacher being unapproachable. I also don't want DD falling behind so early in the year. I think those sites posted above will help - thanks again!

Gotta run & take DD for her allergy shots now!

 

[mickeyboat]

Sounds like you are handling it well.

My thought would be to let DD handle on her own as much as she can. It will really help her in the future. Definitely be there to help, but do it in such a way as to give her the tools she will need to deal with people like this in college and in the real world. shirleyb has some great advice for her to get going on learning the material on her own.

I had a TA for a math class in college who was probably brilliant, but a dud as a teacher. No one understood a word of what he was trying to teach, and no one was getting more than 50% correct on tests. We complained and complained but it did no good.

I had several days between my last two final exams and spent hours and hours in the library teaching myself this math course. Thank goodness the answers to sample questions were in the back of the book. I ended up acing the exam - no thanks to his teaching.

The reason I tell you this is because even to this day I have a huge sense of accomplishment and a knowledge that I can succeed because of my hard work, even when the challenge seems unsurmountable.

Good luck to your DD.

Denae