DLT - Resale Restrictions (Yes or No)

[Bjaiken77]

Because DLT is the next new resort in the pipeline, do you think they add resale restrictions to it? I doubt it’ll matter a bit with DLT because that’ll get gobbled up no matter what. But I think it’ll be an indication of the direction going forward.

 

[princesscinderella]

I think with the restriction wording that’s in the RIV contract it will be applied to all new resorts built going forward.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I think with the restriction wording that’s in the RIV contract it will be applied to all new resorts built going forward.

I agree. But then you have to be consistent going forward like you said. I know some people simply hate RIV resort. Some people hate it solely for the resale restrictions. All things considered, I think RIV has done well. But I know a lot of people weren’t super enthused about Reflections. Let’s say it (or whatever the next resort might be) is a clunker they have a harder time selling. Will it truly bottom out like a lot of people predicted with RIV? If you buy resale, you can only stay at this clunker.

I don’t think you can selectively remove a new resort from resale restrictions going forward and maintain any internal logic. I find VGF2 teetering on cheating with respect to the resale restrictions, especially if it’s a separate building and booking category.

 

[fixerupper]

I think they will and I think it won't matter because it is in CA. I do not think they will/can for VGF. And if they will continue converting as people seem to think, it really doesn't make any sense to me to just have the one resort with the restrictions.

FTR- I hate the restrictions. I think one of the awesome parts of DVC is that you can change up where you stay.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I think they will and I think it won't matter because it is in CA. I do not think they will/can for VGF. And if they will continue converting as people seem to think, it really doesn't make any sense to me to just have the one resort with the restrictions.

FTR- I hate the restrictions. I think one of the awesome parts of DVC is that you can change up where you stay.

Yeah, I just see resale restrictions as a failed policy. They need to get rid of it. I bought into RIV knowing full well they had resale restrictions, and I’d have to be in big financial problems before I’d sell them (my blue card is connected to those points). So, for the most part, it doesn’t matter to me. Yet, I still think it’s stupid.

 

[poofyo101]

Not a chance they remove resale restrictions on new resorts moving forward

 

[Bjaiken77]

Not a chance they remove resale restrictions on new resorts moving forward

This will have an interesting impact going forward, and we probably won’t feel it for some time. Right now, we only have Riviera, which is a pretty new resort and doesn’t have many resales. But we know a lot of people don’t last long term in time shares, which means a lot of these points will eventually be resold. It’ll be interesting to see what it looks like, and how it operates, when a decent size chunk of points can only be used at one resort, especially when this rule starts to apply to other resorts besides RIV.

 

[KPeterso]

I am sure the resale restrictions will continue with all new resorts moving forward. And at DLT, I don't think it will matter in the least or impact the price all that much. Most people who buy DL resort points (VGC only right now) buy them to use exclusively at Disneyland. I have an add on for DLT in my mind. I own VGC already so I would not mind the restrictions on the points (and we love DLH so would love to lock in a visit there each year), so I may consider waiting for those to hit the resale market. Or I may be impatient and get them right away when they go on sale.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I am sure the resale restrictions will continue with all new resorts moving forward. And at DLT, I don't think it will matter in the least or impact the price all that much. Most people who buy DL resort points (VGC only right now) buy them to use exclusively at Disneyland. I have an add on for DLT in my mind. I own VGC already so I would not mind the restrictions on the points (and we love DLH so would love to lock in a visit there each year), so I may consider waiting for those to hit the resale market. Or I may be impatient and get them right away when they go on sale.

I want to buy DLT bad! However, I have to be careful not adding on to another resort with resale restrictions. 125 points with resale restrictions at RIV to keep and maintain my blue card doesn’t bother me a bit. However, I have to be careful not to buy too many resorts that I may take a loss on.

Also, I have a ton of family located near DL, and there are plenty of nice hotels in the area for much cheaper. I love DL, but it doesn’t have the same “Disney Bubble” feel as WDW. I have to remind myself that every stay near a Disney resort doesn’t have to be DVC, even though I’m now in that mindset.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think DLT is like VGC in that no one is buying it casually. People who want casual resale buy stuff that is cheap. Even in resale it won't be. People will buy it initially because they want CA booking privs at 11 months. People will buy it in resale for the same purpose. It being tied to DLT in resale won't matter, because it won't get any easier to get VGC at 7 months because VGC is so small and so sold out. People will use the DLT points, regardless of direct/resale, to book DLT during home resort.

I don't think there will be a bunch of additional conversions added to existing associations past the VGF addition. CCV is really the only realistic one. Jambo has the space but the add to the existing association gets complex due to association end date, and generally speaking AKV isn't nearly so high demand as VGF or CCV. Jambo may be too big as a cash resort, but lacks the demand factor to make it a quality cash grab for DVD.

There's a reason why the 3 longhouses that became DVC at Poly were the three that did. Poly was built fairly uniquely, and the original longhouses cannot be gutted de to construction style. The last 3 longhouses were built more traditionally. It is those 3 that became PVB. There is space at Poly to build a new tower, but that kind of build would take long enough that stapling it into the existing association would decrease in sense rapidly, and it would likely be a new association (a la how VWL and CCV are separate but share amenities).

 

[Bjaiken77]

You’re going to see everyone from Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Northern California, etc. just swarm all over DLT. It’s still a rough trip out there for those in middle America and East. The only people in SoCal who buy it are those with money to throw away, and there are at least a fair amount of those people. I never knew anyone in Southern California who stayed at the Disneyland Hotel.

 

[KPeterso]

You’re going to see everyone from Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Northern California, etc. just swarm all over DLT. It’s still a rough trip out there for those in middle America and East. The only people in SoCal who buy it are those with money to throw away, and there are at least a fair amount of those people. I never knew anyone in Southern California who stayed at the Disneyland Hotel.

I own 2 50 point VGC contracts and am thinking on DLT. I live 20 minutes from Disneyland (seriously 5 minutes from the John Wayne airport). I go for a lot of day trips, but I also do 2-4 staycations at DL each year. Usually 2 2 night stays at VGC (Disneyland's 7/17 anniversary and then around November or December to enjoy the holiday decorations) and then a 2 night cash stay at either DLH or PPH at some point in the year (or one of those times if VGC does not work out). And I am not one with money to throw away - I work hard for it and save a lot. I get itchy for vacation about every 3 months - hit WDW in March and September typically and then DL in between to close the gaps.

Oh and I have many SoCal friends/family that stay at the Disney hotels locally maybe once a year (or sometimes more) just to get a little getaway in. A friend just did a 3 night stay at the HoJo (not one of the DL hotels) because they were coming up from San Diego which is about 90 minutes away and wanted to do a couple park days with their kids. So not all SoCal is that close to always day trip it.

 

[Bjaiken77]

^ Right, I grew up in Orange and went to UCI and Long Beach St. I lived there until my mid 30s - right off Katella and Tustin. And I know there are the staycation exceptions. But the vast, overwhelming majority of DL frequenters from SoCal are come and go by car. That’s been my experience, at least.

 

[DonMacGregor]

People will come Walt. They’ll come to Anaheim for reasons they can’t even fathom. They’ll turn on to Magic Way, not knowing for sure why they’re doing it. They’ll arrive at your door, as innocent as children, longing for the past. “Welcome Home” you’ll say, “It’s only four hundred dollars per point, with a one hundred twenty-five point minimum.” And they’ll pass over the money without even thinking about it, for it is money they have and peace they lack. And they’ll walk off to the theme parks and sit in their short sleeves on a perfect afternoon. And find they have Fast Passes for Rise of the Resistance, and a spot on a bench somewhere along the parade route where they sat when they were children. And they’ll eat churros and popcorn, and it’ll be as if they’d dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick, they’ll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come, Walt. The one constant through all the years Walt, has been Disneyland. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It’s been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But Disneyland has marked the time. This park is a part of our past, Walt. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again. Oh people will come, Walt. People will most definitely come.

 

[ScubaCat]

As for the original question posed with this thread, the only correct answer is "Yes".

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I think with the restriction wording that’s in the RIV contract it will be applied to all new resorts built going forward.

I agree, unless they are overturned by a future legal challenge.

 

[denver7sb]

Hi all, this isn't related directly to DLT, but is more general about possible resale restrictions (and might be applicable, who knows). In short, has Disney started using new, looser language about resale restrictions in their ROFR waivers?

We're about to close on our first resale contract at BRV and just received the closing documents from the title company that includes a copy of the DVD ROFR waiver. I'm a little concerned by some language in the DVD ROFR waiver (the part I bolded below for emphasis):

"As of March 21, 2011, you will not be able to use the vacation points associated with this Ownership interest to make reservations for the Concierge or Disney Collection options such as Disney Cruise Line, Adventures by Disney, or select Disney resorts. Further, as of April 4, 2016, you will not have access to other Disney Vacation Club incidental benefits (also known as Membership Extras) such as certain discounts, offers, and special events. Do not purchase your Ownership Interest in reliance on access to or the ability to transfer these Disney Vacation Club incidental benefits. Depending on the home resort where a resale purchaser owns their ownership interest, some or all of the other Disney Vacation Club Resorts are not available for reservations for Disney Vacation Club Members who do not acquire their ownership interests directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc."

The waiver ends with "Rev. 10/2020."

This language is different from the ROFR language in our sale agreement, which was much more specific about our ability to use points at the "original 14" resorts ("Effective January 19, 2019..." etc). It's also different from pre-10/2020 ROFR language that others have posted on these boards.

I'm a bit concerned that Disney is slipping in loose language here that would give them the flexibility to classify any DVC resort as ineligible for bookings by resale buyers in the future. Am I crazy? Am I just really bad at understanding legalese?

 

[Sandisw]

Hi all, this isn't related directly to DLT, but is more general about possible resale restrictions (and might be applicable, who knows). In short, has Disney started using new, looser language about resale restrictions in their ROFR waivers?

We're about to close on our first resale contract at BRV and just received the closing documents from the title company that includes a copy of the DVD ROFR waiver. I'm a little concerned by some language in the DVD ROFR waiver (the part I bolded below for emphasis):

"As of March 21, 2011, you will not be able to use the vacation points associated with this Ownership interest to make reservations for the Concierge or Disney Collection options such as Disney Cruise Line, Adventures by Disney, or select Disney resorts. Further, as of April 4, 2016, you will not have access to other Disney Vacation Club incidental benefits (also known as Membership Extras) such as certain discounts, offers, and special events. Do not purchase your Ownership Interest in reliance on access to or the ability to transfer these Disney Vacation Club incidental benefits. Depending on the home resort where a resale purchaser owns their ownership interest, some or all of the other Disney Vacation Club Resorts are not available for reservations for Disney Vacation Club Members who do not acquire their ownership interests directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc."

The waiver ends with "Rev. 10/2020."

This language is different from the ROFR language in our sale agreement, which was much more specific about our ability to use points at the "original 14" resorts ("Effective January 19, 2019..." etc). It's also different from pre-10/2020 ROFR language that others have posted on these boards.

I'm a bit concerned that Disney is slipping in loose language here that would give them the flexibility to classify any DVC resort as ineligible for bookings by resale buyers in the future. Am I crazy? Am I just really bad at understanding legalese?

I answered you in the other thread, but basically this is so it can apply to L14 and RIV which has different trading rules. It covers them all.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I kind of wish the next resort was Reflections and not DLT. I can see Disney executives patting themselves on the back when they see resale restrictions don’t hurt DLT sales at all, thus, continuing the poor policy. If the next resort were Reflections, located at WDW where there are already so many existing owners, as well as place where new owners have more options, I think it would stand a greater chance of proving the failure in the resale restriction policy.

Also, as others have said, Disney direct has been very quiet about resale restrictions at RIV during direct sales. It won’t be until about 3-5 years when those RIV owners encounter some hardship, or decide to go in a different direction, and start making loud noise about their dissatisfaction with Disney.

 

[ScubaCat]

I kind of wish the next resort was Reflections and not DLT. I can see Disney executives patting themselves on the back when they see resale restrictions don’t hurt DLT sales at all, thus, continuing the poor policy. If the next resort were Reflections, located at WDW where there are already so many existing owners, as well as place where new owners have more options, I think it would stand a greater chance of proving the failure in the resale restriction policy.

Also, as others have said, Disney direct has been very quiet about resale restrictions at RIV during direct sales. It won’t be until about 3-5 years when those RIV owners encounter some hardship, or decide to go in a different direction, and start making loud noise about their dissatisfaction with Disney.

Why would they tell people about them? That could only hurt their sales!

There will be no failure in the resale restriction policy. Reflections, if/when built, will sell out at about the same pace as all other DVC resorts, and whatever comes next will also carry the full set of resale restrictions (and any others they might conceive and implement in the future.)