Disney's New Princess - Tiana

challer

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Feb 6, 2008
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Wow, the NY Times gets the Robama story, and today they come out with this. The controversy, or non-controversy, of Tiana. The link, and the article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/fashion/31disney.html?_r=1&ref=style


31prin600.1.jpg


Her Prince Has Come. Critics, Too.

By BROOKS BARNES
LOS ANGELES


“THE Princess and the Frog” does not open nationwide until December, but the buzz is already breathless: For the first time in Walt Disney animation history, the fairest of them all is black.

Princess Tiana, a hand-drawn throwback to classic Disney characters like Cinderella and Snow White, has a dazzling green gown, a classy upsweep hairdo and a diamond tiara. Like her predecessors, she is a strong-willed songbird (courtesy of the Tony-winning actress Anika Noni Rose) who finds her muscle-bound boyfriend against all odds.

“Finally, here is something that all little girls, especially young black girls, can embrace,” Cori Murray, an entertainment director at Essence magazine, recently told CNN.

To the dismay of Disney executives — along with the African-American bloggers and others who side with the company — the film is also attracting chatter of an uglier nature. Is “The Princess and the Frog,” set in New Orleans in the 1920s, about to vaporize stereotypes or promote them?

The film, directed by Ron Clements and John Musker, two of the men behind “The Little Mermaid,” unfolds against a raucous backdrop of voodoo and jazz. Tiana, a waitress and budding chef who dreams of owning a restaurant, is persuaded to kiss a frog who is really a prince.

The spell backfires and — poof! — she is also an amphibian. Accompanied by a Cajun firefly and a folksy alligator, the couple search for a cure.

After viewing some photographs of merchandise tied to the movie, which is still unfinished, Black Voices, a Web site on AOL dedicated to African-American culture, faulted the prince’s relatively light skin color. Prince Naveen hails from the fictional land of Maldonia and is voiced by a Brazilian actor; Disney says that he is not white.

“Disney obviously doesn’t think a black man is worthy of the title of prince,” Angela Bronner Helm wrote March 19 on the site. “His hair and features are decidedly non-black. This has left many in the community shaking their head in befuddlement and even rage.”

Others see insensitivity in the locale.

“Disney should be ashamed,” William Blackburn, a former columnist at The Charlotte Observer, told London’s Daily Telegraph. “This princess story is set in New Orleans, the setting of one of the most devastating tragedies to beset a black community.”

ALSO under scrutiny is Ray the firefly, performed by Jim Cummings (the voice of Winnie the Pooh and Yosemite Sam). Some people think Ray sounds too much like the stereotype of an uneducated Southerner in an early trailer.

Of course, armchair critics have also been complaining about the princess. Disney originally called her Maddy (short for Madeleine). Too much like Mammy and thus racist. A rumor surfaced on the Internet that an early script called for her to be a chambermaid to a white woman, a historically correct profession. Too much like slavery.

And wait: We finally get a black princess and she spends the majority of her time on screen as a frog?

“Because of Disney’s history of stereotyping,” said Michael D. Baran, a cognitive psychologist and anthropologist who teaches at Harvard and specializes in how children learn about race, “people are really excited to see how Disney will handle her language, her culture, her physical attributes.”

Mr. Baran is reserving judgment and encourages others to do the same. But he added that the issue warrants scrutiny because of Disney’s outsize impact on children.

“People think that kids don’t catch subtle messages about race and gender in movies, but it’s quite the opposite,” he said.

Donna Farmer, a Los Angeles Web designer who is African-American and has two children, applauded Disney’s efforts to add diversity.

“I don’t know how important having a black princess is to little girls — my daughter loves Ariel and I see nothing wrong with that — but I think it’s important to moms,” she said.

“Who knows if Disney will get it right,” she added. “They haven’t always in the past, but the idea that Disney is not bending over backward to be sensitive is laughable. It wants to sell a whole lot of Tiana dolls and some Tiana paper plates and make people line up to see Tiana at Disney World.”

Few people outside the company have seen footage of the movie. Among them are consultants like Oprah Winfrey, whom Disney asked for input on the racial aspects of the film and was cast as Tiana’s mother. (Movie theater owners and members of the N.A.A.C.P. have also been shown scenes, and the reactions, according to a Disney spokeswoman, were “extremely positive.”)

Rather, fueling the debate are photos of related merchandise taken from a toy industry event, a one-minute teaser trailer and Disney’s enormous cultural impact.

The company wants to vanquish once and for all the whispers of racism that linger from stumbles in the past. Yes, “Dumbo” traded in black stereotypes in 1941 with its band of uneducated, pimp-hat-wearing crows. All the animals in “The Jungle Book” from 1967 speak in proper British accents except for the jive-talking monkeys who desperately want to become “real people.”


31prin650.4.jpg

HEY YOU! "Dumbo" depicted black stereotypes in 1941 with its uneducated, pimp-hat-clad crows.

More recently, “Aladdin” ran into trouble in 1993. The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee labeled certain song lyrics defamatory (“Where they cut off your ear/If they don’t like your face/It’s barbaric, but, hey, it’s home”).

The company responds that criticism of such well-worn examples — particularly of films from the ’60s and earlier — applies a 21st-century morality to movies made in sharply different times. The United States barely had a Civil Rights Act in 1967, much less a black president.

Disney executives think people should stop jumping to conclusions about “The Princess and the Frog.”

A producer of the film, Peter Del Vecho, said: “We feel a great responsibility to get this right. Every artistic decision is being carefully thought out.”

Ms. Rose, familiar to movie audiences for her role in “Dreamgirls,” has also defended Disney.

“There is no reason to get up in arms,” she told reporters at a recent Los Angeles Urban League dinner. “If there was something that I thought was disrespectful to me or to my heritage, I would certainly not be a part of it.”

Ms. Winfrey declined to comment. A spokesman for the N.A.A.C.P. said the organization had no immediate comment.

Disney often gets criticized no matter how carefully it strives to put together its television shows, theme-park attractions and movies. For years, Disney has been lambasted by some parents for not having a black princess. Now, some of those same voices are taking aim at the company without seeing the finished product. (Officially, the princesses are Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Ariel of “The Little Mermaid,” Belle of “Beauty and the Beast” and Jasmine of “Aladdin” — all white except for Jasmine, who is Arabian. The leads from “Mulan” and “Pocahontas” are sometimes sold with the Princess merchandising line.)

Mr. Del Vecho said the idea for a black princess came about organically. The producers wanted to create a fairy tale set in the United States and centered on New Orleans, with its colorful past and deep musical history.

“As we spent time in New Orleans, we realized how truly it is a melting pot, which is how the idea of strongly multicultural characters came about,” Mr. Del Vecho said.

He described Tiana as “a resourceful and talented person” and the rare fairy tale heroine “who is not saved by a prince.” Once the decision was made to make the lead black, he added, “We wanted her to bear the traits of African-American women and be truly beautiful.”

Getting “The Princess and the Frog” right is of enormous importance to Disney. The company needs hits, as evidenced by a recently announced 97 percent drop in quarterly profit. The Disney Princess merchandising line is a $4 billion annual business and the company has plans for Tiana to be everywhere. Get ready for Tiana dresses, elaborate dolls and Halloween costumes.

The movie also marks a return by Disney to traditional hand-drawn animation. A failure could be the final nail in the coffin of an art form pioneered by Walt Disney himself.

In the last 20 years, Disney has made huge strides in depicting race. In 1997, the company’s television division presented a live-action version of “Cinderella” with a black actress, the singer Brandy, playing the lead. In 1998, “Mulan” was celebrated as a rare animated feature that depicted Chinese characters with realistic-looking eyes; most animated films (even those from Japan) had Westernized versions of Asian people until that time.

THE debate surrounding “The Princess and the Frog” illustrates how difficult it is to deal with race in animation, experts say. Cartoons by their nature trade in caricatures.

Mainstream producers have largely avoided characters of color for fear of offending minority groups, although black producers have been creating cartoons featuring stereotyped characters since the days of “Fat Albert.”

Disney can take some comfort in a backlash to the backlash.

“This is one of those situations where I am ashamed of the black community,” Levi Roberts said in a YouTube video. “Are we being racist ourselves by saying this movie shouldn’t have a white prince?”

Perhaps the final word — for now — should come from somebody who is African-American and a former Disney animator.

“Overly sensitive people see racial or ethnic slights in every image,” wrote Floyd Norman, whose credits span from “Sleeping Beauty” to “Mulan,” in a 2007 essay on the Web site Jim Hill Media. “And in their zeal to sanitize and pasteurize everything, they’ve taken all the fun out of cartoon making.”
 
Really interesting.

After writing an essay on Disney as a culturally imperialist company, I will be interested to see how this turns out, hopefully for the good.

Disney have made a lot of errors in their time, hopefully this will go down as a classic.
 
No wonder this is Disney's first crack at it. You are criticized for not doing something, and ripped apart if you don't do it flawlessly. :rolleyes:

I am searching for a copy of Song of the South. I would love to show it to my kids and talk about how things have changed through the years. I think it's good for kids to know history so they can learn from the mistakes that have been made. I consider the movies of the past reflective of the attitudes in our country at the time and our future generations need to know how far we've come so that they don't take it for granted.

DH and I were comparing our mom's spanking tool of choice and laughing about which was worse flyswatter or wooden spoon and the kids were horrified. "My grandmothers?" :rotfl2: Attitudes about things change so rapidly, how the heck are movies supposed to keep up?
 

Personally, I think it is very irritating that Disney is getting ripped to shreads over this when the movie (or even substantial trailers for it) are not even out yet. The company was bashed for not having an African-American princess and is now bashed for having one. I really think people need to wait for the product to be out before they begin their criticism.

I also think it is absolutely outrageous that Song of the South is not available to today's public. There are other films out there (think Gone with the Wind and The Indian in the Cupboard, for example) with racial stereotypes in them. Why is this such a huge social faux pas? If Disney is so dang concerned about issues within the film, re-release it with a prologue of some sort explaining the time and thoughts put into its characters and how it was produced.
 
Personally, I think it is very irritating that Disney is getting ripped to shreads over this when the movie (or even substantial trailers for it) are not even out yet. The company was bashed for not having an African-American princess and is now bashed for having one. I really think people need to wait for the product to be out before they begin their criticism.

I also think it is absolutely outrageous that Song of the South is not available to today's public. There are other films out there (think Gone with the Wind and The Indian in the Cupboard, for example) with racial stereotypes in them. Why is this such a huge social faux pas? If Disney is so dang concerned about issues within the film, re-release it with a prologue of some sort explaining the time and thoughts put into its characters and how it was produced.


ITA!

When I first heard about this movie I knew it would be a no win situation and I knew it would be critized no matter what Disney did. It's already been changed and the release date pushed backed a few times. There is just no way to please everyone.

And I completely agree about Song of the South. It's time to release that movie. It was made in 1946, 63 years ago for pete's sake, of COURSE things were different then. Why can't releasing it be about showing how things have changed for the better?
 
I totally agree!

Oh, and btw, I nearly fell over laughing when you said, "For Pete's sake." ROFL!
 
Yeah for a price! ;)

Yeah $20. About a year ago. I wanted to see this film badly (because I had not see it and because it was often called racist). So I ordered it from http://www.officialsongofthesouth.com/. It was a great quality, but a bootleg. I can't say I'd call it racist, but 'typical' of that time and YES full of shameful steretypes. My DD and I saw it together, she had problems trying to listen (for understanding) thru the 'thick' southern accent. To be honest, I couldn't stand listening to it myself. It took me a few times just to see the whole thing. My DD never did finish it. I didn't know that one of my favorite Disney song (Zip a di do dah) came from that movie.
 
Yeah for a price! ;)

The Pirate Bay has a great deal at the moment. ;)

I don't like the idea of banning movies like Song of the South. We should be able to watch something and put it in Historical context. It is like reading about the Salem Witch trials not because we still think witches exist, but to learn what was happening in society to make those witches seem so real to their contemporaries. Watching a movie like Song of the South or Birth of a Nation is not all that different than reading Huck Finn or watching the old news footage of the debates about Jim Crow laws. They provide context to our history and, much like each of us individually, our present state is a product of our collective past.

I do think that collectively as a nation we sometimes have trouble distinguishing between things that are racial and things that are racist.
 
The Pirate Bay has a great deal at the moment. ;)

I don't like the idea of banning movies like Song of the South. We should be able to watch something and put it in Historical context. it is like reading about the Salem Witch trials not because we still think witches exist, but to learn what was happening in society to make those witches seem so real to their contemporaries. Watching a movie like Song of the South or Birth of a Nation are not all that different than reading Huck Finn or watching the old news footage of the debates about Jim Crow laws. They provide context to our history and, much like each of us individually, our present state is a product of our collective past.

I do think that collectively as a nation we sometimes have trouble distinguishing between things that are racial and things that are racist.

Thanks! I have one of those from a friend ;) but would like a real copy someday. And ITA with your comments.

I am looking forward to Princess Tiana.
 
I just hope this controversy goes away and everyone can enjoy the movie (if it's good).

(& I got Song of the South on mousetunes)
 
While the article and we are discussing Disney issues with race throughout the years, here are some pics from the original Three Little Pigs that was eventually edited out. Here is the Big Bad Wolf as the "Jewish Brushpeddler:"

PDVD_235.jpg

PDVD_237.jpg

PDVD_239.jpg

PDVD_242.jpg


Surprised? Here's what it was subsequently changed to:
threelittlepigs5.jpg
 
**This is not directed toward any DIS'ers, but to the moron that wrote that NY Times article.**

No matter what, people will ALWAYS find something wrong with whatever they are given. Minorities constantly complain about racism and discrimination, and I have heard for years from people about why there isn't a black Disney princess. Well, finally Disney brings us Tiana, a princess who I am sure will be loved my many children and adults alike, and these minorities rip it to shreds - again citing racism and discriminatory undertones. GIMME A BREAK PEOPLE! Just be happy with what you are given! You say it being set in N.O. is insensitive to the black community by conjuring up memories and thoughts of voodoo, jazz, and slavery? Well, that is a part of history, like it or not. Did white people cry discrimination and insensitivity when Cinderella was made to scrub the floors and put up with the ridicule of her stepmother and stepsisters? No. And if Tiana's prince was black, then I'm sure they'd find something wrong with that too.

And I'm sure we'll hear complaints about the movie using hand-drawn animation. We've been asking for it for a long time, so Disney brings it back - now I'm just waiting to hear the criticism.

People need to take this movie for what it is - a Disney princess movie. Kids will love it. [B]“People think that kids don’t catch subtle messages about race and gender in movies, but it’s quite the opposite,” [/B] says that Baran psychologist guy? They aren't going to pick up on that kind of stuff unless they hear their parents complaining about it. Kids are going to watch the movie and enjoy it.

The critics (whether they are in the industry or involved in the black community somehow) obviously have nothing better to do than to pick apart this movie with a fine-toothed comb. It's too bad, because this movie has already had so much negative stuff said and written about it, that people are now going to go into the theater w/ a jaded view of the newest addition to the Disney Princess line. Let those of us who are here just enjoy a new classic that looks funny and light-hearted, and keep your thoughts to yourself.
 
**This is not directed toward any DIS'ers, but to the moron that wrote that NY Times article.**

No matter what, people will ALWAYS find something wrong with whatever they are given. Minorities constantly complain about racism and discrimination, and I have heard for years from people about why there isn't a black Disney princess. Well, finally Disney brings us Tiana, a princess who I am sure will be loved my many children and adults alike, and these minorities rip it to shreds - again citing racism and discriminatory undertones. GIMME A BREAK PEOPLE! Just be happy with what you are given! You say it being set in N.O. is insensitive to the black community by conjuring up memories and thoughts of voodoo, jazz, and slavery? Well, that is a part of history, like it or not. Did white people cry discrimination and insensitivity when Cinderella was made to scrub the floors and put up with the ridicule of her stepmother and stepsisters? No. And if Tiana's prince was black, then I'm sure they'd find something wrong with that too.

And I'm sure we'll hear complaints about the movie using hand-drawn animation. We've been asking for it for a long time, so Disney brings it back - now I'm just waiting to hear the criticism.

People need to take this movie for what it is - a Disney princess movie. Kids will love it. [B]“People think that kids don’t catch subtle messages about race and gender in movies, but it’s quite the opposite,” [/B] says that Baran psychologist guy? They aren't going to pick up on that kind of stuff unless they hear their parents complaining about it. Kids are going to watch the movie and enjoy it.

The critics (whether they are in the industry or involved in the black community somehow) obviously have nothing better to do than to pick apart this movie with a fine-toothed comb. It's too bad, because this movie has already had so much negative stuff said and written about it, that people are now going to go into the theater w/ a jaded view of the newest addition to the Disney Princess line. Let those of us who are here just enjoy a new classic that looks funny and light-hearted, and keep your thoughts to yourself.

THERE IS SOOOOOO MUCH WRONG WITH YOUR COMMENTS. I WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO EXPLAIN, BUT YOUR CINDERELLA statement Leads me to believe that I'd be wasting my time so I'll pass on that debate. :rolleyes:

Sidebar: Ignore caps - I'm trying to type on a little netbook. I just found the caps lock button.
 
In re-reading the article it doesn't come off as "Disney bashing" as the first time. They do talk about some of the objections but also highlight some prominent people like Oprah that were consulted in the movie. Everything Disney does has its proponents and detractors, just look at the D23 debates on these boards. Until the movie is out and we can judge for ourselves we will never know.

I believe the PP's mention of Cinderella is in reference to one of the early objections of the movie. Originally the princess, named Matty, was to be a chambermaid who later becomes a princess. This was viewed as a negative stereotype and the example of Cinderella starting in a similar role and becoming a princess was made. I think maybe the earlier reference was not very clear in why the comparison was made.
 
THERE IS SOOOOOO MUCH WRONG WITH YOUR COMMENTS. I WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO EXPLAIN, BUT YOUR CINDERELLA statement Leads me to believe that I'd be wasting my time so I'll pass on that debate. :rolleyes:

Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with my opinion - that's why it's called an opinion.

I believe the PP's mention of Cinderella is in reference to one of the early objections of the movie. Originally the princess, named Matty, was to be a chambermaid who later becomes a princess. This was viewed as a negative stereotype and the example of Cinderella starting in a similar role and becoming a princess was made. I think maybe the earlier reference was not very clear in why the comparison was made.

You are right. :thumbsup2
 
Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with my opinion - that's why it's called an opinion.

You can have your opinion and I can have mine. Again, I would explain but I don't think you'll get it or even care, so I'll pass.

For the record, my objection is from the following statements:

Minorities constantly complain about racism and discrimination, and I have heard for years.... Just be happy with what you are given!

Did white people cry discrimination and insensitivity when Cinderella was made to scrub the floors and put up with the ridicule of her stepmother and stepsisters?
 
**This is not directed toward any DIS'ers, but to the moron that wrote that NY Times article.**

No matter what, people will ALWAYS find something wrong with whatever they are given. Minorities constantly complain about racism and discrimination, and I have heard for years from people about why there isn't a black Disney princess. Well, finally Disney brings us Tiana, a princess who I am sure will be loved my many children and adults alike, and these minorities rip it to shreds - again citing racism and discriminatory undertones. GIMME A BREAK PEOPLE! Just be happy with what you are given! You say it being set in N.O. is insensitive to the black community by conjuring up memories and thoughts of voodoo, jazz, and slavery? Well, that is a part of history, like it or not. Did white people cry discrimination and insensitivity when Cinderella was made to scrub the floors and put up with the ridicule of her stepmother and stepsisters? No. And if Tiana's prince was black, then I'm sure they'd find something wrong with that too.

And I'm sure we'll hear complaints about the movie using hand-drawn animation. We've been asking for it for a long time, so Disney brings it back - now I'm just waiting to hear the criticism.

People need to take this movie for what it is - a Disney princess movie. Kids will love it. [B]``People think that kids don`t catch subtle messages about race and gender in movies, but it`s quite the opposite,`` [/B] says that Baran psychologist guy? They aren't going to pick up on that kind of stuff unless they hear their parents complaining about it. Kids are going to watch the movie and enjoy it.

The critics (whether they are in the industry or involved in the black community somehow) obviously have nothing better to do than to pick apart this movie with a fine-toothed comb. It's too bad, because this movie has already had so much negative stuff said and written about it, that people are now going to go into the theater w/ a jaded view of the newest addition to the Disney Princess line. Let those of us who are here just enjoy a new classic that looks funny and light-hearted, and keep your thoughts to yourself.

I shouldn't be, but I am constantly surprised by the ignorance that is still rampant today. (And I use ignorance in it's correct form) I'm not upset at your remarks because I don't think you get it, but I am dissapointed. When you say things like "these minorities" and "be happy with what you're given", it comes across as if you look at minorities as lesser people. We are not, and it is our right and sometimes our duty to speak up when we don't think we're being taken seriously. Do we overreact sometimes to frivolous issues? Yes, but not always. Most white characters have white romantic counterparts.......What's wrong with having a black prince? If you were consistently misrepresented, you might understand. But even so, don't dismiss what you don't understand. With that being said, I will hold my yay or nay until I actually see the film. P.S. I am from New Orleans and am not offended about the Voodoo angle.
 
I shouldn't be, but I am constantly surprised by the ignorance that is still rampant today. (And I use ignorance in it's correct form) I'm not upset at your remarks because I don't think you get it, but I am dissapointed. When you say things like "these minorities" and "be happy with what you're given", it comes across as if you look at minorities as lesser people. We are not, and it is our right and sometimes our duty to speak up when we don't think we're being taken seriously. Do we overreact sometimes to frivolous issues? Yes, but not always. Most white characters have white romantic counterparts.......What's wrong with having a black prince? If you were consistently misrepresented, you might understand. But even so, don't dismiss what you don't understand. With that being said, I will hold my yay or nay until I actually see the film. P.S. I am from New Orleans and am not offended about the Voodoo angle.

Well, I do get it. I'm not an idiot, I'm not ignorant, and I do understand. Please stop making assumptions about me. I am not referring to minorities as a whole in my post...I know that there a lot of people who don't see anything wrong w/ with these "issues". But there will always be those people (all types of people) who have to pick apart and analyze anything just to start a heated discussion. I never said that you weren't taken seriously and everyone overreacts to frivolous issues - no single person or group is singled out here. And I think that everyone has felt misrepresented at some point in their lives, so I do understand.

For the record, I don't think of minorities as "lesser people". And I never said there was anything wrong with having a black prince - actually, I think it would be great. I just wish that these critics would leave well enough alone and let people enjoy the addition of Princess Tiana to the Disney family.
 












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