Disney's miscalculation with Genie/Genie+

[Robbie Cottam]

Multiple cast members have given me the same answer on the DME question, that is to many other options to get people to the parks, and to other parks. It was no longer worth the investment to keep the DME… blame limos, uber, lyft, etc.

When i was down in June, most people wanted upgraded magic bands.
why give some a magic band they are never going to use when you know they are yoing to buy the one they like.

waste not want not…

not sure when the parades are coming back, but do you really want to be 9 people deep when some kids coughs on you? I dont, so im ok with no parades….

Dinning plans are schedule to come back.
it would have been very hard for Disney to sell a dinning plan when more than half of the restaurants were closed…

i totally agree that if you dont like something disney is doing show Them!

spend your money else where!!,

that isnwhat they will under stand

 

[DISNEY1975]

We choose to stay on-site solely for the convenience. There's no off-site hotel (save for Swan/Dolphin, which I also stay at) that is walkable to parks or is a quick Skyliner/monorail/boat/bus ride away. That's just a fact and the biggest benefit Disney can tout with on-site resorts.

Not 100% true. Ive stayed at the Best Western Lake Beuna Vista many times when visiting other Orlando Parks (Discovery Cove/Sea World/Aquatica). Though we rent a car I see shuttles to all the parks every 15 or so minute picking up/dropping off. They also run back and forth to Disney Springs in the evening, for those who do not want to walk the 5 minutes. Also, this hotel is the furthest from DS on Hotel Plaza Blvd and still only a 5 minute walk. For those staying even closer...1- 2 minute walk to Disney Springs, Im sure they can hop on any of the buses in DS and go to the parks/resorts.

My stays at BWLBV have averaged $100/night and the rooms are much bigger than those at the Poly/Contemporary/Yacht Club etc... All rooms have balconies w/ tables & chairs and for about $10 you can upgrade to Disney view room and see the fireworks from Epcot and DHS at night. Also nice view of Disney Springs all lit up! They even have 2 gift shops. 1) for Disney stuff 2) for FL/Orlando stuff. I really love it there, but to me, nothing beats a boat or monorail and the dining plan (love to prepay the trip), so when at Disney, I stay onsite. If it were a choice of a mod/value vs Disney Springs area, I would choose DS area hands down.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Not 100% true. Ive stayed at the Best Western Lake Beuna Vista many times when visiting other Orlando Parks (Discovery Cove/Sea World/Aquatica). Though we rent a car I see shuttles to all the parks every 15 or so minute picking up/dropping off. They also run back and forth to Disney Springs in the evening, for those who do not want to walk the 5 minutes. Also, this hotel is the furthest from DS on Hotel Plaza Blvd and still only a 5 minute walk. For those staying even closer...1- 2 minute walk to Disney Springs, Im sure they can hop on any of the buses in DS and go to the parks/resorts.

My stays at BWLBV have averaged $100/night and the rooms are much bigger than those at the Poly/Contemporary/Yacht Club etc... All rooms have balconies w/ tables & chairs and for about $10 you can upgrade to Disney view room and see the fireworks from Epcot and DHS at night. Also nice view of Disney Springs all lit up! They even have 2 gift shops. 1) for Disney stuff 2) for FL/Orlando stuff. I really love it there, but to me, nothing beats a boat or monorail and the dining plan (love to prepay the trip), so when at Disney, I stay onsite. If it were a choice of a mod/value vs Disney Springs area, I would choose DS area hands down.

The two Hiltons at the strings are at least a 5 minute walk…. Not saying you cant walk from the best western to the springs in 5 minutes, but i know i cant, and i would bet most cant either….

 

[DISNEY1975]

The two Hiltons at the strings are at least a 5 minute walk…. Not saying you cant walk from the best western to the springs in 5 minutes, but i know i cant, and i would bet most cant either….

Easy peasy. Not quite into the heart of DS, but BW to the bridge is 5 minutes .....and Im no spring chicken. (we, and every other guest, cut through the AAU parking lot.)

 

[miamimama]

Counterpoint: I’m not waking up at 7 am during my vacation to book one fastpass, no matter where I’m staying. It was one thing to do that at 60 days out, but I’m not doing it every single day of my vacation. That benefit is worthless to me, and I’d bet it’s worthless to everyone coming from the West Coast.
[/QUOTE
Agreed. I live on the East Coast and no way I’m getting up at 7am to get on a ride. I will rethink my Disney ride habits if I lose all my decent ride options because I don’t get up at 7am. I value staying onsite though Because , for example, I like staying at BWV and walking to Epcot for dinner and festivals and not driving to an off site resort. Or taking a bus to POR instead of driving. So it all depends on your priorities I guess.

 

[nkereina]

Not 100% true. Ive stayed at the Best Western Lake Beuna Vista many times when visiting other Orlando Parks (Discovery Cove/Sea World/Aquatica). Though we rent a car I see shuttles to all the parks every 15 or so minute picking up/dropping off. They also run back and forth to Disney Springs in the evening, for those who do not want to walk the 5 minutes. Also, this hotel is the furthest from DS on Hotel Plaza Blvd and still only a 5 minute walk. For those staying even closer...1- 2 minute walk to Disney Springs, Im sure they can hop on any of the buses in DS and go to the parks/resorts.

Its true off-property hotels have shuttles, but not all of them run at consistent intervals and some make multiple stops. They also drop off at TTC for MK. And being a 5 minute walk to DS is all fine and good, but its still a good distance to the parks. Time is money when you're there, since most of us have such a limited time to enjoy everything. So, I would still assert my point that the on-property resort's proximity to parks as well as regular/reliable transportation to and from the parks win out from a convenience perspective. The value of that is totally subjective.

 

[tony67]

Personally I find staying on property very convenient - but the cost for a generic room is just not worth it to me.

I recall all those people that used to complain that the rooms at Swan Dolphin did not feel Disney - and now IMO all the rooms feel like generic Marriott's unless you book themed rooms - dont have an issue with it - just saying.

Lack of EMH does make it easier to say off property - I did love staying at MK till the early AM hours and having transport. Staying off site those busses are just not as regular or convenient - especially at say 2AM.

Lack of ME makes it easier to stay off property - Uber is convenient - but not as convenient as your bag just being in your room. Sometimes I would bookend my stays just so I could use ME.

Driving from Off site - no matter how close to Disney is still loosing time - yeah you can get more room and a better value - but time is Money - especially at Disney.

Prices on property make it easy to stay off property add in paying to park, yeah biggest scam in the Hotel industry but it is what it is.

That said my first choice is Swan and Dolphin - I can walk to HS, Bordwalk and Epcot. From Epcot I can monorail to MK or Monorail hotels. Also Disney Busses to Mk, AK .etc and of course the boats to Epcot and HS.

Rooms are around 200 a night for what is a Disney Deluxe - just wish they still had the club lounges - they really added to it and the staff was great.

They are also building a second more upscale Swan (autograph Collection) - will be interesting to see - will be more expensive Im sure - but another option.

 

[Miffy]

We always stay onsite and one of the main reasons is transportation. I don't mean DME. I mean the bus/boat/monorail transportation from the resorts to the parks.

I do not want to go on a Disney vacation where I have to rent a car and drive everywhere. And I want to be able to go back to the room easily and quickly if I want to, even if the other person I'm traveling with wants to stay in the parks.

Sure, we could use Uber/Lyft for all our transportation if we stayed off-site, but then the trip would cost much more.

Additionally, we stay at AKL. There's nothing like this off-site, and it's a big part of our vacation. We are not just there for the parks. We are there for the resort.

This doesn't make us "stupid," as a PP indicated.

 

[DISNEY1975]

Its true off-property hotels have shuttles, but not all of them run at consistent intervals and some make multiple stops. They also drop off at TTC for MK. And being a 5 minute walk to DS is all fine and good, but its still a good distance to the parks. Time is money when you're there, since most of us have such a limited time to enjoy everything. So, I would still assert my point that the on-property resort's proximity to parks as well as regular/reliable transportation to and from the parks win out from a convenience perspective. The value of that is totally subjective.

DS hotels are actually closer to the parks than some of the values.

You could use some of the HUGE amount of money you save by staying off property on a rental car and zip to anywhere you want to go without waiting for Disney transportation. Even at the end of an MK night its over 1/2 hour waiting for the resort monorail and ferry is worse as it goes to multiple resorts and some only hold like 40 people! (GF/Poly in particular). I just rented a midsized SUV from Hertz for a week $290 including prepaid gas. If I stayed off site for a week, I could have saved

(Using last week of Sept dates ...value season)

B resort is currently $97/night, Wydham $139, Hilton $166. (Best Western is building a new tower and not open yet)



vs Value - All Stars are....$191 - $360 (for Music??? not sure why) , but clearly Hilton is a WAY better hotel! And closer to the parks!
vs Value - Pop & AoA are $290+ per night.. saving $700 +and renting a car for $300 you still have $400+ extra
vs Mod - Coronado - $277, Caribbean Beach $310,
vs Deluxe - IF youre lucky, you can get AK and WL in the low 500's. Most are $600+ So lets say $566..on the low side... you would save $2800 - $300 for car. = $2500.

Do you know what you could do with $2500? Go to Disney again!!!!

 

[DanielleC]

The two Hiltons at the strings are at least a 5 minute walk…. Not saying you cant walk from the best western to the springs in 5 minutes, but i know i cant, and i would bet most cant either….

Before anyone asks me "What about you? Why are you paying?" I'm older and single. I've been going for 40+ years. I have a limited number of close friends. Disneyworld is my happy place. I like to people watch. All I pay for is my Annual Pass and QS meals.

I rarely pay for signature dining and might pay for a sit down dining experience in DS. I'll get a room only stay at the least expensive hotel I can find. No Dining Plans, no Photo Pass no Memory Maker, no Genie+, no extras at all. No more Mickey's Very Merry Christmas (my first one cost me $15), no Boo Bash. If I don't see/ride/do/experience it on this trip there's always the next trip.

Like I said in an earlier post, Disney is concerned about the bottom line. If you're upset about the changes then don't pay. Enough people do this and Disney will notice. Everyone is different. Everyone has different income levels. Everyone wants a different experience. No one is stupid or wrong for how much they chose to spend at Disney.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Great post!!! great points,!,
We all don’t want the same Disney trip.
I know i dont want to pay for things I have no need for, and you pointed out neither do you.

I also completely agree if anyone doesn’t like a Disney change, that persons best course of action, would be to spend their money else where. That is what Disney understands…..

Great post well said!

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I see what you are saying..
Then yes i agree, it takes 5 minutes to walkup the stairs and over the bridges that lead to the springs, or at least the market place ….

 

[snappy]

We have enjoyed multiple stays in nearby pool homes, at least 10-12 stays in Wyndham Bonnet Creek villas of all sizes, stays in suites and regular rooms at the Hilton and Waldorf Bonnet Creek, 10-15 stays at Swandolphin. Also stayed at most Disney resorts at least once and many DVC stays at different resorts. All good. I look for value. Found a great airport-resort transport (Tony Hinds) years ago, like split stats so do Uber’s frequently for those and also for mid day park-resort transport. It is all good but again, I look for value which means deals.We use our DVC points frugally and add days where I can get the best bang for the buck. Often that has meant offsite. I find moving mid stay seems to lengthen the trip. We do the same thing when we stay in Manhattan since location means access to different things just like in WDW.

 

[Matt'sMom]

.
You could use some of the HUGE amount of money you save by staying off property on a rental car and zip to anywhere you want to go without waiting for Disney transportation. Even at the end of an MK night its over 1/2 hour waiting for the resort monorail and ferry is worse ...

Don't forget to add in an additional $25 parking fee for each day you drive that rental car to a park. And keep in mind the distance you'll need to walk from the lot to the park entrance, and that for MK you'll then still need to also take a monorail or ferry/boat to get to/from the park entrance in addition to walking from the lot to the TTC.

 

[DISNEY1975]

Don't forget to add in an additional $25 parking fee for each day you drive that rental car to a park. And keep in mind the distance you'll need to walk from the lot to the park entrance, and that for MK you'll then still need to also take a monorail or ferry/boat to get to/from the park entrance in addition to walking from the lot to the TTC.

Somewhat negated by the $15 -25 you pay for parking at the resort...or the new cost of getting you from and to the airport

Yes, car, bus, monorail, ferry etc.. you need to walk and wait for all! The trams, when they are running, usually take care of the car to entrance problem. When I went 3 weeks ago, parks were dead. We went straight from airport to Epcot, getting there around noon, and had like 10th row parking! I walked on to Soarin' 3x in a row, starting at 2pm!! I stay on property for the dining plan Nothing better than pre paying the whole trip. That is the ONE drawback staying off site. Im usually on the monorail, but always rent a car to get to DHS/AK/Waterparks/other resort dining. And self admitted, Im stupid! If I think of all the money I could have saved Id start kicking myself. So I dont think about it!!!

Signia Hilton (closer to parks, shuttles every 15 minutes, early morning hours)





All star resort....





Or even B for under $100



OK..pool not great, but I bet its quiet! Ive stayed across the street at BW before when visiting Discovery Cove/SeaWorld/Aquatica and the pool area was basically empty every day.

 

[bakerworld]

Let me add my 2 cents on the discussion. My family has been to WDW 9 times and each time we have stayed on property. The magic and perks outweighed the overpriced room prices. We are returning in December. Will we buy Genie+...yes. Will we probably ever stay on property again? Probably not. Here is why. I just priced seven nights at Beach Club during our stay and and an on property stay would have cost our family about $3200 MORE than the off-site resort we are staying at that has a lazy river etc. I'm guessing there are many families similar to mine and this is literally the one move that Disney could have made (taking away the old fast pass system) that completely flipped the value proposition away from staying on property. WDW in the long run IMO is going to lose lots of money because of this decision.

If you like the BC location, price out the Dolphin. You can do it on the hotel sites (Expedia, Trip Advisor, etc.) of just go straight to the hotel site. I think their correct name is Walt Disney World Dolphin. The Swan is a bit more. The Dolphin is a great location. Remember to add $30/pd to the price to cover their fees and if you are driving it's another $20/pd (?). I love the Dolphin because you get the great location without the BC/BW/YC pricing however I avoid their QS because it has a 'convenience fee' which I just don't understand.

If you are into packaging, my BIL said Dolphin is an option in the hotels on the Disney website. We usually stay at the Dolphin over Labor day weekends for roughly $320/pn inclusive of the $30/pd fee but not the parking fee, as we fly in.

 

[shawthorne44]

What I am shocked about is that I recently had very little on-site choices for late-Jan to early-Feb. So, people are staying on-site. Then when Biden opens the borders, it will be filled with international travelers who had postponed trips.

Not entirely sure where we will stay, we have three reservations right now, on-site tent camping, on-site resort and off-site 3/2 condo. I don't know if on-site will be worthwhile. For me, it will depend on how good the half-hour early entry is. With it being for all four parks, and us being early-birds while on vacation, I suspect it will be awesome. But, it might turn out to be *meh*, in which case we'll go with the condo.

What I suspect will happen is that maybe a year after the borders open, the Disney hotel bubble will burst. Many people will stay offsite or not go at all. Then the discounts and free dining will come back. Disney will figure out a way to fill the rooms.

 

[cakebaker]

not sure when the parades are coming back, but do you really want to be 9 people deep when some kids coughs on you? I dont, so im ok with no parades….

Have you seen what it looks like for fireworks at the MK? 9 people deep is nothing.

The reason they haven't brought back the parade has nothing to do with safety issues. For those not comfortable being in a crowd of any kind, they don't have to stop and watch the parade just like they don't have to watch the fireworks. But Disney isn't bringing it back to save $$$$- that's the only viable reason.

 

[nkereina]

DS hotels are actually closer to the parks than some of the values.

You could use some of the HUGE amount of money you save by staying off property on a rental car and zip to anywhere you want to go without waiting for Disney transportation. Even at the end of an MK night its over 1/2 hour waiting for the resort monorail and ferry is worse as it goes to multiple resorts and some only hold like 40 people! (GF/Poly in particular). I just rented a midsized SUV from Hertz for a week $290 including prepaid gas. If I stayed off site for a week, I could have saved

(Using last week of Sept dates ...value season)

B resort is currently $97/night, Wydham $139, Hilton $166. (Best Western is building a new tower and not open yet)

View attachment 602857

vs Value - All Stars are....$191 - $360 (for Music??? not sure why) , but clearly Hilton is a WAY better hotel! And closer to the parks!
vs Value - Pop & AoA are $290+ per night.. saving $700 +and renting a car for $300 you still have $400+ extra
vs Mod - Coronado - $277, Caribbean Beach $310,
vs Deluxe - IF youre lucky, you can get AK and WL in the low 500's. Most are $600+ So lets say $566..on the low side... you would save $2800 - $300 for car. = $2500.

Do you know what you could do with $2500? Go to Disney again!!!!


View attachment 602852

I absolutely do not want to drive myself in a rental car on vacation. I commute 90 minutes roundtrip to work, so the last thing I want to do is navigate the traffic/construction mess that is Orlando and its suburbs. I also want to drink and not have to worry about driving. So a rental car is out of the question for me. If I were to rideshare, that has its own set of costs and restrictions, not to mention I'd still have to go out to TTC to catch it.

We can agree to disagree on the matter. There's no point in trying to convince anyone to stay on-site or off-site because everyone vacations differently and places different values on each of these considerations. For me, the convenience of Disney resorts and transportation coupled with the immersive theme (and also package deliveries when that resumes) make it worth the added cost for me to stay on-site. So, I budget accordingly for this. If you'd rather be more budget-focused, there's nothing wrong with that. But there's nothing wrong with chalking the price difference up to the cost of convenience and preference either.

 

[DISNEY1975]

What I am shocked about is that I recently had very little on-site choices for late-Jan to early-Feb. So, people are staying on-site.

Not really. Poly and Contemporary Tower are under major construction. Most rooms are not available to book yet. Port Orleans Hotels are still closed too completely. All others are either DVC only or have limited rooms available to book. No resort or restaurant is running at full capacity yet.....except Beaches and Cream!! People soup! So if there is no availability it doesnt mean every room is occupied. They are still pretty limited. They wont open up bookings until they know they can accommodate. I just heard they had to upgrade a bunch of All Star guests to Mods because they opened up more rooms than they could service.