Disney's miscalculation with Genie/Genie+

[revdon64]

I think it's going to be dependent on the size of your family. If you're considering paying an extra 100+ per day for rides, you may start considering staying off property.

This is the major sticking point for my family of 6 - (by Disney standards) 5 adults and one child.

To some extent. But I think if family size/more space/less $ is a major motivator you probably were already staying offsite. (I know families who could afford onsite, but always rent a house so they can spread out without dealing with kids in unconnected hotel rooms.)

We are a family of 5. Most of our friends have 2-4 kids, so I think pretty typical family sizes. I've heard friends grumble about "another money grab"---but I haven't heard anyone suggest it would change their lodging/overall travel style. More just resignation that "it's already expensive, what's a little more in comparison to the $ we were already spending."

This is, of course, completely anecdotal evidence. But thought I'd share it as a contrast to the anecdotal evidence on these boards of families promising they won't stay onsite anymore.

Here's my anecdotal evidence. We're an onsite family because we love being "in the bubble," and have gone 8 times or so. Last time we went in January of 2018 we had a very bad experience with a number of things. We've been comped rooms and tickets for a return trip, but I'm not sure we'll ever use them. At this point even if we do it's likely that we'd split our vacation between the free onsite and something offsite with visits to UOR/Seaworld/etc.

Very good post and I agree with most everything you said. I am also a DIS shareholder and my main point of my original post is that the company has eliminated many perks in a very short period of time (some necessary due to covid/short staffing issues...others just seemingly out of greed). With the lessening of the "Disney Magic" that has made us die hards go back multiple times...willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars in the parks and resorts, I'm just concerned that this is going to be that final straw...ppl will start to look towards other travel experiences with their families because of the eroding "magic"

Already there. No vacation trip in 2020, but instead of going back to Disney in 2021, we went to Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge/Great Smokey Mountains area. Considering how much there is to do there and how relaxing the trip was, Disney may well have lost this family for good.

 

[GatorChris]

I feel you. Why spend a fortune on small rooms when the only perk is bus service. Moderates went form about $200/night to $300/night in just one year. And for the extra money, you get no EMH, no FP perks, no discounts, and average bus service. I never thought I'd stay off-site for WDW. I love the bubble feeling you get there. But then again, I thought I'd never go all the way to Orlando and go to Universal. But I did. And I'm going to again this winter. Disney used to have great value. It has slowly diminished into a "Hawaii" trip - lot of money for lots of hype and lots of letdown.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Then you're not the target audience. Any person rope dropping a park and trying to do as much as possible is already awake at 7am. They're not requiring a special alarm or wake up call just to make a fastpass and go back to sleep.

Yeah, but I'm a lot of the audience that they just royally ticked off and alienated.

 

[cjsmom5]

For many reasons I don't think they will lose money. I don't think anything will change as far as their occupancy or attendance. Due to "travel circumstances" in the world, I think domestic travel will stay up for some time. They will continue to be a top destination, and with many new guests which is their actual target market. If their hotels are full of all new guests, they are good, they can upsell them more and these guests will have no expectations of what was "before". If you move offsite but still go to parks, they are good because most park guests are from offsite. Disney is dependent on offsite guests.

Disney was about the only park not offering a paid for "fast pass" so no matter what we all hoped for and argued for, it was inevitable. I am personally thrilled that Genie+ is so reasonable and IF they handle it like FP+ in terms of distribution it could work very well. No more 3 FP+ being held prior to park opening creates a big pool to pull from. I did quite well at rolling that last FP+ and hope this means doing the same. Having to purchase may also mean less people using the system which is a plus for those using it. I am worried about the pay for pass price point, but for me it will mean just giving up some table service. Guests will make it work for their needs; it won't change their trips and buy it, they will buy it and drop something else or they won't buy just like many didn't use FP+.



THIS^

Everyone pays the same price for tickets to the parks no matter where you stay. Parks and hotels are two different profit centers. Where you stay has to do with your needs for your non-park time, your personal preference and budgets.

Genie is for park guests and I assume booking dining/events located outside the parks. It doesn't care where you stay. We must remember that Disney depends on offsite guests as there are only enough onsite to fill half the park capacity if they are lucky.

I thought that Genie+ was to work like Max Pass worked at DL when they had it. You can get your first fast pass starting at 7am but you can not book any additional fast passes until you use that one. As I understood it, and I could be wrong, if you pay for Genie+ you can only hold one fast pass at a time. You can purchase up to 2 Lightening passes at attractions during the day .... so you could pay extra for a ticket for Test Track and the new coaster ... as well as hold 1 fast pass at a time. The "kink" as I look at it comes in booking your fast pass. If you don't get your first one booked early enough in the day that could hinder your ability to book more later in the day. This will be the incentive to get up earlier.

I agree the demand is very real. People want to travel and right now they know Florida will be open. Have a friend who booked WDW instead of DL because she wasn't sure DL would be open for her trip. And, many people staying will be new and not realize that there was a time when you didn't have to pay for fast pass. The scheduling of it all could be a possible headache.

 

[snappy]

We had an amazing Universal trip December 2019. Christmas parade, fireworks, first look at Harry Potter land, Dr. Seuss land itself and the stage show was great. Not sure what will be available at Universal parks this Christmas but I highly recommend both it, as well a the Royal Pacific. Our king suite was on the same floor as the lobby. It was so nice to skip the elevators. Walking to the parks was so easy. I was sorry to leave there to go to Disney although we did like club level at Coronado Springs.

 

[cjsmom5]

Thank you for the concise explanation. Did they give any indication as to whether, as in the case of FP-, you can select a second G+ LL pass if the first is 2+ hours into the future? Or will it be one and only one at a time?

Good question. My interpretation of how it has been explained is that you have to use your current FP before you can get another one. They may have an option for a time lapse period after the first one is scheduled but i have not heard anyone mention that. The catch will be scheduling the first fast pass earlier in the morning so you can then get that done and schedule your next one. If you go to schedule a Test Track and the first available is 2pm, you will not be able to get another one til after that time. They did say only a certain amount of passes will be available for the time slot. This may affect a person's ability to get the number of fast passes that they want. So it could become a perk for staying on Disney property as you can make them at 7am and get the first one on a ride you want early in the morning.

 

[cjsmom5]

We had an amazing Universal trip December 2019. Christmas parade, fireworks, first look at Harry Potter land, Dr. Seuss land itself and the stage show was great. Not sure what will be available at Universal parks this Christmas but I highly recommend both it, as well a the Royal Pacific. Our king suite was on the same floor as the lobby. It was so nice to skip the elevators. Walking to the parks was so easy. I was sorry to leave there to go to Disney although we did like club level at Coronado Springs.

This is off topic - but how was club level at Coronado Springs. We have stayed in the tower often and was wondering if it were the same level as we have experienced in a deluxe resort. I was disappointed to see that the Coronado - especially club level - was not considered in the "deluxe" category for the extra evening hours. I just priced it and it is similar in price to staying at a deluxe.

 

[cjsmom5]

My 2 cents worth is it will depend probably a lot on the size of the family. For smaller families adding $15 a day to your ticket price might not be an issue. But, for larger families that adds up quickly. We have gone for over 30 years and stayed throughout Disney Property. I remember when POFQ was $98 for a water/pool view room. Gone are those days as I just priced it and it is over $220 per night and depending on the time even more than that. So, for us -kids grown and Disney not their choice - traveling just the two of us - we like the proximity of YC to Epcot and Hollywood. We like being in the bubble and love the pool. We have stayed off property and it isn't quite the same although the value much better. But, I don't think the added expense will deter many right now. It used to be $10 per day for Max Pass at DL so $15 per day at WDW is in line with what they have done in the past -- DL is now $20.

 

[lovin'fl]

Which offsite resort? I’ve been looking at Windsor HIlls because it appears to be the closest offsite that has washer/dryers kitchens (I’m going to be selling my DVC contract based upon the elimination of on-property perks), but I’d love to know if there are other good ones I should be looking at.

We just bought our own vacay place in a resort called Regal Palms. It has a lazy river with a slide, 2nd pool and hot tub plus restaurant/bar and huge arcade. Has a gym and hair salon and spa. Really tip top amenities. It's like 22 mins to Disney though. But we don't mind that now that we're limiting our park time (mainly doing Epcot festivals and DS hanging out). We rent when not using. They are 3 and 4 bedroom townhomes. Ours is 4 with a 1st floor master and second floor master. Well stocked kitchens. And you can rent anywhere from $85-130 ish a night. (they do have a $20/night resort fee plus tax as well).

 

[Salf777]

I have heard (not sure the sources are reliable but supposedly comes from high up in Disney so take it for what it is just a rumor) that Disney has said they don’t want the parks full to capacity like they were prior to COVID as the guest experience was getting bad reviews. The way to make the same or more money is to raise prices so people like many here complaining and saying they won’t go anymore don’t go. There will still be plenty of people willing to go and willing to pay the higher price. Less people paying more equates to the same profits or more and then less people in the park the people paying more get a better guest experience. Look at cruise lines almost all of them have now gone to a ship within a ship higher end experience (Norwegian Haven, Celebrity Retreat, etc) why because people are will to spend more for a more special “feeling” treatment. We cruise quite a bit and had a cruise that was canceled due to COVID-19 I just went to rebook for 2022 and the price is DOUBLE WHAT WE HAD BOOKED FOR 2020! The sailing is pretty much booked. I have a choice pay it or don’t go. We all think that we are saying we won’t go we won’t pay, etc. yet Disney is making more DVC at where else the Grand Floridan the higher end. i am willing to bet it sells out quickly. I remember when COVID first hit prices dropped for a short time for DVC and I read countless experts on here give detailed reasons about how DVC is done prices are going to fall further and here we are still in the midst of it all and prices are almost at all time highs. It’s Disney there’s a whole new generation that’s starting to go and the prices will just keep going up.

 

[snappy]

This is off topic - but how was club level at Coronado Springs. We have stayed in the tower often and was wondering if it were the same level as we have experienced in a deluxe resort. I was disappointed to see that the Coronado - especially club level - was not considered in the "deluxe" category for the extra evening hours. I just priced it and it is similar in price to staying at a deluxe.

We actually went to both UO and Disney twice, once in early December 2019 and again in late January 2020. Seemed crazy at the time but we had expiring AP’s, and looking back when everything shut down, it was actually pretty good we went. As far a Gran Destino Tower club level goes, we loved it, and the prices back then at least were not bad. We actually got an AP discount in December, no discount for January, but the rack rate was really low because it was off season. We booked a regular room both times and was upgraded to a king suite. Food was very great to us, breakfast especially and happy hour was divine. Five or six decent Spanish wines and then six or so Spanish cordials that were excellent especially mixed with the coffee from their espresso machine. The staff at the time was top drawer, very accommodating. We enjoyed visiting with many of them throughout our stay. It was just my husband and I and we only like to spend a few hours in the parks each day so we spent a lot of time at the resort, in the lounge and just enjoying the suite. Good views from both sides of the resort. I did miss having a balcony a bit, but there are ceiling to floor windows in the living area and bedroom of the suites. I can see us returning someday.

 

[Letsoflyakite]

With all the continued money printing, Disney is grabbing its piece of it. Just like everyone else.

 

[Cupcakesmum]

We’ve been 6 times in the last 7 years, plus 2 cruises. We’ve definitely missed it during the pandemic and will make 1 more trip - and throw the money at genie+ and likely stay onsite. The magic express hurts the most. I think they have priced me out of where I think the experience is worth it. I was planning to do 2 trips post pandemic - one ASAP as we thought it was safe Covid wise and then a trip to experience Christmas decorations that same year. We recommended on-site to anyone who would listen and at least 3 families did as a result of our sway- but we won’t put recommend it anymore without magic express. I have no doubt that Disney will continue to make money with genie+ and pent up vacation demand, but for us and based on previous experiences the next will be the last which is actually what I think they’re banking on to thin crowds but continue to turn big profit. We had a good run!

 

[HopperFan]

I thought that Genie+ was to work like Max Pass worked at DL when they had it. You can get your first fast pass starting at 7am but you can not book any additional fast passes until you use that one. As I understood it, and I could be wrong, if you pay for Genie+ you can only hold one fast pass at a time. You can purchase up to 2 Lightening passes at attractions during the day .... so you could pay extra for a ticket for Test Track and the new coaster ... as well as hold 1 fast pass at a time. The "kink" as I look at it comes in booking your fast pass. If you don't get your first one booked early enough in the day that could hinder your ability to book more later in the day. This will be the incentive to get up earlier.

I agree the demand is very real. People want to travel and right now they know Florida will be open. Have a friend who booked WDW instead of DL because she wasn't sure DL would be open for her trip. And, many people staying will be new and not realize that there was a time when you didn't have to pay for fast pass. The scheduling of it all could be a possible headache.

How you understand process is how I understand it. I'm thinking you misunderstood when I said "similar distribution". I didn't mean 3 per person, what I mean was the percentage of ride slots that they will populate Genie+ with ... will it be as much as with FP+? If so I think it will work well.

I always booked 3 in advance, sometimes even the night before or in morning. I would then roll that 3rd FP+ all day long. I never had trouble getting just about anything we wanted except for FoP and sometimes 7DMT. The way I see this is we are jumping straight to the 3rd FP+ and rolling.

 

[mullysisters]

Disney lost me at no more EMH. That was my whole trip. Getting up extra early and staying up extra late. Watching the park hours weeks in advance of our trip and praying for a 2am close at Magic Kingdom. That's what I call pixie dust. We had 11 trips in 15 years. We now call them the "Golden Years". Apart from booking the resort( special offers only) we felt like everything was free! My last trip was Feb 2019, it was amazing. The gondolas became my new favourite ride.
Next year we are visiting DL before we seek out other vacation options. Very sad, I'm going to always be wondering what I am missing.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Terrible money grab. Disney has so many long time/repeat visitors, I don't see how this can fly.

Different if it is an expensive paid 'benefit' for a small %age of people (looking at the CL people). I think, 'they have money, they want to spend it on that, I think it's crazy, but it doesn't really affect me'. But this is just a big

look at boo bash people were waiting hand over first to pay MORE for a very considerable less experience! All this complaining the same will buy this day one, guaranteed.

I didn’t need boo bash and don’t need this. To be honest I actually don’t miss fast past as it is now.

 

[Kickstart]

... rumor) that Disney has said they don’t want the parks full to capacity like they were prior to COVID as the guest experience was getting bad reviews...
... Less people paying more equates to the same profits or more and then less people in the park the people paying more get a better guest experience. ..

This makes sense to me. It was just getting too crowded. They either had to expand the park capacity or raise prices.

I'm also wondering if charging for G+ and IAS LL was driven by similar logic - if being free would have significantly deteriorated the experience as there's really no way to give so many people 3 good "fast passes" per day.

I wish they expanded the park capacity instead, and I do feel they've taken away too much (park hours, DME, free FP, etc.). I'm also concerned about them not investing enough in staff (is the trash still overflowing?)

 

[snappy]

Expanding park capacity costs money. Maybe they sell more stuff, food and other, but not enough to cover the additional costs.

 

[OKW Lover]

Expanding park capacity costs money. Maybe they sell more stuff, food and other, but not enough to cover the additional costs.

If that were true, there would never be a new attraction.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Let me add my 2 cents on the discussion. My family has been to WDW 9 times and each time we have stayed on property. The magic and perks outweighed the overpriced room prices. We are returning in December. Will we buy Genie+...yes. Will we probably ever stay on property again? Probably not. Here is why. I just priced seven nights at Beach Club during our stay and and an on property stay would have cost our family about $3200 MORE than the off-site resort we are staying at that has a lazy river etc. I'm guessing there are many families similar to mine and this is literally the one move that Disney could have made (taking away the old fast pass system) that completely flipped the value proposition away from staying on property. WDW in the long run IMO is going to lose lots of money because of this decision.

If the Genie/fastpass system is the only thing that "flipped the value proposition away from staying on property" , Have you ever thought about renting dvc points? Most owners rent there points at about 40% of what Disney would charge for rack rate.

Also if you don't mind me ask what Hotel are you staying at off property? Not all resort are created equal.
If you don't believe me google "A NICE INN AND SUITES" in Orlando. That watch the hotel impossible about that hotel.

If the lost of the free fastpass system change your mind about staying on property, what will the 1.5 hours a day you lose commuting to and from the parks cost you?