Disney's Legacy FastPass Failure

[sethschroeder]

This wasn't a FP- problem/failure. This was, and still is, a TSMM and a DHS problem/failure. FP+ didn't add additional tracks to the ride. FP+ didn't build additional family friendly headliners at DHS. Those are the two solutions to the problem. All FP+ did was move that line online, while adding a whole bunch of restrictions to the people waiting in the line.

Incorrect, part of the solution was to limit each person to 1 tier 1 ride. Opening up more TSMM FP+ times to other people. It also limited you to 1 park per day (at this point) thus people choosing to FP+ MK while still going to HS in the morning for instance.... While I understand both those solutions would have help with the overall ride wait issue this is the direction Disney decided to move.

One person said they get irritated by people saying they abused the old system... Well I get sick of people just ragging on FP+ just to rag on it instead of giving constructive feedback. "If you complain enough they will change it." False, if you give them corrective feedback of how you want the system changed they will change it. I would bet almost anything that FP+ is not going anywhere for the next 20 years.

 

[morethananyonex]

So what???? Would you rather stand in line 30 mins for a FP- AT the park or keep hitting refresh for 5 mins on your couch?

Again the current state of MDE is not what the end result should be. You should enter at 11:59 and by 12:05 have your FP+ picked and submitted. There should be no endless errors or just days of downtime we see now.

Also to those point out the FP+ kiosk... That will not be an issue for long once everyone off-site starts booking online 30 days out. You will still have a few lines but that will mostly be for people who are really out of the loop going to Disney likely for the first time with FP+ in place.

Finally to everyone complaining about tiers and all the other things. Tiers are in place because MORE people are actually using FP+ now (likely over using to capacity). I also don't see a connection between FP+ = less happy people with their trips. IF Disney can work out the kinks in the technical system and start managing the FP+ allotment better you will see happiness go up.

To throw back the 1+1=2 back at you
If people were getting 4/5/6/7/8/9 FP- in a day that means 1/2/3 people were not using ANY FP-. If there person for the first time ever uses FP+ on their next trip it likely will be a revelation that is just amazing to "skip" the line....

Well, I've never stood in line anywhere close to 30 minutes to get TSMM FP, but anyways, I'd rather get the FP from my couch before the trip all else being equal. BUT I'd rather wait in the line at the park if it doesn't restrict me to 3 total FP per day in one park, and if tiers did not have to be put in place. Again, you'd be hard pressed to find a FP- supporter who thought there was nothing wrong with TSMM. The thing is, most of us recognize that it's a TSMM problem, and this issue did not exist at the majority of the other attractions across all 4 parks. I would rather deal with a situation like this at one attraction (that cannot be resolved until more desirable capacity is added to DHS) and take all the other good stuff that FP- brought. Just like for many people benefits outweigh the downsides of FP+, the benefits of FP- outweighed the downsides for many of us too.

Tiers exist because Epcot and DHS don't have enough desirable rides to go around. In order for Disney to keep enough "inventory" for people to lock themselves into their DHS days, tiers are a necessity. I dislike tiers, but I do understand why they are there which leads to me viewing them as the aspect of FP+ least likely to change, at least for a good 5-10 more years.

 

[morethananyonex]

Incorrect, part of the solution was to limit each person to 1 tier 1 ride. Opening up more TSMM FP+ times to other people. It also limited you to 1 park per day (at this point) thus people choosing to FP+ MK while still going to HS in the morning for instance.... While I understand both those solutions would have help with the overall ride wait issue this is the direction Disney decided to move.

One person said they get irritated by people saying they abused the old system... Well I get sick of people just ragging on FP+ just to rag on it instead of giving constructive feedback. "If you complain enough they will change it." False, if you give them corrective feedback of how you want the system changed they will change it. I would bet almost anything that FP+ is not going anywhere for the next 20 years.

That's not a solution IMO, that's a band aid. The only solution to the capacity at TSMM is to either increase it at TSMM or increase similar capacity around DHS. The tiers show what most of us already knew, Epcot and DHS have glaring issues.

Back to the OP, the line at TSMM is being framed as a FP- failure. I'm questioning exactly how it's a failure, when the underlying cause of this has nothing to do with either FP system.

 

[sethschroeder]

I can honestly say that in all of my trips since FASTPASS was implemented - in both WDW and DLR - I have never personally seen nor stood in a FP distribution line like this.

IMO, it's more than a bit disingenuous to post that video of the massive TSMM distribution line and act as though lines like that appeared for every ride that had legacy FP.

Overall, yes, I'd rather potentially have issues with a ride or 2 (and I say potentially because I want to be very clear that I *never* experienced a distribution line (or any legacy FP line for that matter) like those posted), than have the current system.*

*to be further clear - I could careless whether the system was paper or RFID. It's the rules of the system that bother me (and that could be changed). If the tech reliably worked (which is a separate issue), I wouldn't have an issue with the tech itself.

I still think/hope changes come to limiting your preselection to 1 or 2 rides and forcing you to use those prior to getting a 3/4/5/6/7 FP+ after you used up your pre-booking allotment. After the first 2 it could work like the old system. Still giving the rope drop people a benefit for getting to the park early and reserving those FP+ times at 9/10am so they could get FP+ at 1PM/3PM/5PM/7PM

 

[cruisingtwins]

TSMM is not even that good no way I would want to ride it 4 times in one day.

 

[juliebug1997]

Tiers exist because Epcot and DHS don't have enough desirable rides to go around. In order for Disney to keep enough "inventory" for people to lock themselves into their DHS days, tiers are a necessity. I dislike tiers, but I do understand why they are there which leads to me viewing them as the aspect of FP+ least likely to change, at least for a good 5-10 more years.

Other than MK, IMO, there's no reason for me to have more than one FP. However, when I tried to go with just one or two at DHS, it kept forcing another one on me, so I finally relented to get one for the Muppets.

 

[morethananyonex]

I still think/hope changes come to limiting your preselection to 1 or 2 rides and forcing you to use those prior to getting a 3/4/5/6/7 FP+ after you used up your pre-booking allotment. After the first 2 it could work like the old system. Still giving the rope drop people a benefit for getting to the park early and reserving those FP+ times at 9/10am so they could get FP+ at 1PM/3PM/5PM/7PM

I think that could be a great compromise. People could still reserve those mega headliners, like TSMM, while not being shut out of the other rides because of it. The early birds would still be getting rewarded, which would be nice.

Unfortunately, I don't see Disney dipping below the 3 pre booked rides, as I think they've decided 3 is the magic number that will lock guests into their plans.

 

[surferdave]

I still think/hope changes come to limiting your preselection to 1 or 2 rides and forcing you to use those prior to getting a 3/4/5/6/7 FP+ after you used up your pre-booking allotment. After the first 2 it could work like the old system. Still giving the rope drop people a benefit for getting to the park early and reserving those FP+ times at 9/10am so they could get FP+ at 1PM/3PM/5PM/7PM

I could get behind that, if I didn't believe wireless technology (including WiFi and cellular), device battery lifetime and the ponderous multi-databank system won't be up to it for many years.

 

[Mad Hattered]

So what???? Would you rather stand in line 30 mins for a FP- AT the park or keep hitting refresh for 5 mins on your couch?

Again the current state of MDE is not what the end result should be. You should enter at 11:59 and by 12:05 have your FP+ picked and submitted. There should be no endless errors or just days of downtime we see now.

Also to those point out the FP+ kiosk... That will not be an issue for long once everyone off-site starts booking online 30 days out. You will still have a few lines but that will mostly be for people who are really out of the loop going to Disney likely for the first time with FP+ in place.

Finally to everyone complaining about tiers and all the other things. Tiers are in place because MORE people are actually using FP+ now (likely over using to capacity). I also don't see a connection between FP+ = less happy people with their trips. IF Disney can work out the kinks in the technical system and start managing the FP+ allotment better you will see happiness go up.

To throw back the 1+1=2 back at you
If people were getting 4/5/6/7/8/9 FP- in a day that means 1/2/3 people were not using ANY FP-. If there person for the first time ever uses FP+ on their next trip it likely will be a revelation that is just amazing to "skip" the line....

I am trying to decide if I should BURN you in public.

 

[sethschroeder]

I think that could be a great compromise. People could still reserve those mega headliners, like TSMM, while not being shut out of the other rides because of it. The early birds would still be getting rewarded, which would be nice.

Unfortunately, I don't see Disney dipping below the 3 pre booked rides, as I think they've decided 3 is the magic number that will lock guests into their plans.

They could give you a choice though? 1 FP+ pre booked and unlimited at the park following the old rules OR 3 FP+ pre booked.

This would give you a headache trying to figure out lol. Although if you were lucky you could get Soarin and TT done in 1 day with precooking 1 and booking someday when you get there for the other.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I still think/hope changes come to limiting your preselection to 1 or 2 rides and forcing you to use those prior to getting a 3/4/5/6/7 FP+ after you used up your pre-booking allotment. After the first 2 it could work like the old system. Still giving the rope drop people a benefit for getting to the park early and reserving those FP+ times at 9/10am so they could get FP+ at 1PM/3PM/5PM/7PM

I would like to hope that there will be changes to the base rules, but at this point I don't have much confidence in it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

They could give you a choice though? 1 FP+ pre booked and unlimited at the park following the old rules OR 3 FP+ pre booked.

This would give you a headache trying to figure out lol. Although if you were lucky you could get Soarin and TT done in 1 day with precooking 1 and booking someday when you get there for the other.

Disney can't get the system to function correctly most of the time now...talking about throwing things like this into the IT mix? Disney's IT dept is not something that inspires confidence in being able to pull off complicated endeavors (part of my concerns with MM+/FP+ in the first place)

 

[morethananyonex]

They could give you a choice though? 1 FP+ pre booked and unlimited at the park following the old rules OR 3 FP+ pre booked.

This would give you a headache trying to figure out lol. Although if you were lucky you could get Soarin and TT done in 1 day with precooking 1 and booking someday when you get there for the other.

Disney can't get the system to function correctly most of the time now...talking about throwing things like this into the IT mix? Disney's IT dept is not something that inspires confidence in being able to pull off complicated endeavors (part of my concerns with MM+/FP+ in the first place)

Yep, that was my first reaction. I think further complicating the system is a recipe for disaster. It's not like this is solely a MyMagic+ problem, Disney IT has been notorious for being pretty bad for years. I have no confidence that they could make a system that causes guests to rely even more on it work well.

 

[bjakmom]

I'd like to point out that that TSMM FP- distribution line was feeding into 6 lines - so it moved much quicker than it looks - I have stood in that line many times. Unless you were unlucky enough to get behind a Tour Group leader with a pile of tickets, you were moving very quickly - ticket in/FP out - zip...zip!lol
and speaking of Tour Groups - how on Earth is WDW going to accomodate their FP+ distribution this July??? How are they going to keep these groups together like they have always done in the past? I'd love to know the answer to this.

 

[magicbob]

Don't you get about the same?

To do it before, you had to spend 1/2 hour in this line to get a FP, to wait 20 min in line, then hope they're not gone and you can maybe get another FP for later that night. Total, 2 ridings, utilizing rope drop to squeak them in.

Now, you schedule a FP for one any time you want, and you rope drop TSMM right off. You still ride twice. Only your first ride is complete sooner and your second ride is whenever you want it.

This is such a great reminder of just how awful FP- was for TSMM.

I completely agree FP+ has improved the situation for TSMM somewhat. Previously, you had to go to RD, grab a FP-, ride standby with a relatively short wait, and then come back to use your FP- at the designated time to ride again.

Now, you reserve the time you want in advance, go to RD, ride SB with a relatively short wait, and then come back to use your FP+ at the time you selected. That is a slight improvement.

But don't forget that it came at the expense of now not being able to get other tier 1 FPs that you would have been able to get in the past. So instead of also having short waits at other headliners, you have no choice but to ride SB for those.

 

[*disgal*]

I know for a fact when I was there in November people were pulling many many tickets using old room keys. That is not right. I have also heard people say stuff like if you can do it, it is not abuse in relation to this. I really do not agree with the idea that finding a loop hole makes it ok. (Not saying this is your opinion)

That to me is a horse of a different color. And I'm pretty sure that was only able to be done during that small amount of time when disney was first installing the new system but yet still had some old FP machines around.

I don't think that's right to do either but I'm not even going to figure that time into what I'm talking about because it wasn't the "norm". Legacy was around for how many years? I can't remember, was it like 12? A few months of people doing the above isn't what most on this board are talking about when they say we "abused" the system. So I'm not even going to count it.

Disney has every right to change things if they want to. And there are some great things about the new system that I like. My family, like many, many people I read on this board, will get to know the new system and work with it just like we do with everything. Will we ever be able to get what we did before, especially during busy season? Probably not. But we will deal. It's disney, we're still happy.

 

[*disgal*]

This wasn't a FP- problem/failure. This was, and still is, a TSMM and a DHS problem/failure. FP+ didn't add additional tracks to the ride. FP+ didn't build additional family friendly headliners at DHS. Those are the two solutions to the problem. All FP+ did was move that line online, while adding a whole bunch of restrictions to the people waiting in the line.

TOTALLY!!

I forget the word that Pete used to describe DHS.....it wasn't obsolete, I can't remember.....but it wasn't a positive description. lol

 

[mom2rtk]

I knew without looking the example was going to be Toy Story Midway Mania, which has a singular problem no distribution system is going to be able to fix but has somehow become the poster child for NextGen. It will only be addressed when new major attractions are introduced to Hollywood Studios. The same attraction doesn't have this problem in California where it's not in a park starving for family attractions.

Seriously. I wish they'd just tear that ride down. I'm so sick of hearing about it. They need a rule here that if you want to claim FP+ as a success, you need to be able to explain why without mentioning that ride.

This wasn't a FP- problem/failure. This was, and still is, a TSMM and a DHS problem/failure. FP+ didn't add additional tracks to the ride. FP+ didn't build additional family friendly headliners at DHS. Those are the two solutions to the problem. All FP+ did was move that line online, while adding a whole bunch of restrictions to the people waiting in the line.

Yep. That.

I still think/hope changes come to limiting your preselection to 1 or 2 rides and forcing you to use those prior to getting a 3/4/5/6/7 FP+ after you used up your pre-booking allotment. After the first 2 it could work like the old system. Still giving the rope drop people a benefit for getting to the park early and reserving those FP+ times at 9/10am so they could get FP+ at 1PM/3PM/5PM/7PM

They could give you a choice though? 1 FP+ pre booked and unlimited at the park following the old rules OR 3 FP+ pre booked.

This would give you a headache trying to figure out lol. Although if you were lucky you could get Soarin and TT done in 1 day with precooking 1 and booking someday when you get there for the other.

You seem to like the potential in FP+ more than the reality of what it is.

I still don't have much faith in anything worthwhile being left after initial prebooking. Although I do like the idea of cutting back to 1 or 2 prebooking slots followed up by additional bookings once those are used. What I don't like about that is how it would incentivize people to get to the parks earlier. At least with FP+ in its current form some are encouraged to sleep in and get to the parks later. Once rope drop is diminished in a significant way, it's game over for me.

 

[clsteve]

I still don't have much faith in anything worthwhile being left after initial prebooking. Although I do like the idea of cutting back to 1 or 2 prebooking slots followed up by additional bookings once those are used. What I don't like about that is how it would incentivize people to get to the parks earlier. At least with FP+ in its current form some are encouraged to sleep in and get to the parks later. Once rope drop is diminished in a significant way, it's game over for me.

Rope drop would be fine under that scenario!

Well, as long as you were there in front of the huge pile up caused by people trying to book ressies on their IPad while driving into the parking lot........

 

[Planogirl]

This thread is because one ride had a backup at its fastpass legacy kiosks? ONE ride?

TSMM has been a problem since it was built and that isn't likely to change. We waited a bit there, that is true, but we never waited anywhere else.