Disney's $1 billion dollar bet on magical wristband - Wired

Hmmm...and if that plan were to work... It wound require park capital investment... Because the current slate isn't gonna cut it...

So if that's the plan...I'm all in.

DVC was purchased for a variety of reasons...convenience of not worrying about paying is one - I believe...

DVC is capital investment. Kinda the point.

The attractions would require new investment capital, but if you offer Norway A&E FP+ (or a 4th for Soarin 2, or a 4th for TSM 2, or a 4th for either of the Avatar attractions or any new Star Wars attractions) as a 4th FP+ only to Deluxe-then sell remaining availability on the app for the price commanded by demand (time of year, attraction built-like Tron would be more etc) could be $1, $5, $10, $20 whatever-that goes toward construction of a ride built by deluxe guests and app purchases. The reset are SB. And no reason/excuse not to build more.

The other incentives cost nothing. 90 day window, no tiers, extra FP+'s, rerides, hopping picks.

.
 
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Hmmm...and if that plan were to work... It wound require park capital investment... Because the current slate isn't gonna cut it...

So if that's the plan...I'm all in.

DVC was purchased for a variety of reasons...convenience of not worrying about paying is one - I believe...

But I would pay for a Wildeness lodge room at $150 a night in 2003...

I sure as hell won't pay $350 for the same room now.

Did DVC hurt the deluxes? Or did they hit the wall with the prices?

Not even evil greedy Mikey Eisner attempted to find the price point where the product wouldn't sell...the "line on the horizon"...

This twit and his minions seem to be desperate to find it on everything.

My next guess of hitting the sweet spot will be sitdown food prices... They're close to the limit of tolerance based on the food quality now...

Tickets will follow... As aggressive increases when 2 parks are in decline will cause a large scale revolt amongst the experience eventually...even among the east coast lemmings...
DVC has been added to the Deluxe resorts because of their low occupancy. As you've said, Disney refuses to lower their room rates. It's ironic that the Waldorf Astoria and the Four Seasons have equal of lower room rates than the Disney deluxe resorts and their accommodations are more luxurious.

Some are speculating that free dining will not be offered this year. So I'm wondering how the TS spots will fare. I see a lot more posts talking about the mediocre food at most restaurants. Will guests remain willing to pay such high prices for atmosphere alone?
 
DVC has been added to the Deluxe resorts because of their low occupancy. As you've said, Disney refuses to lower their room rates. It's ironic that the Waldorf Astoria and the Four Seasons have equal of lower room rates than the Disney deluxe resorts and their accommodations are more luxurious.

Some are speculating that free dining will not be offered this year. So I'm wondering how the TS spots will fare. I see a lot more posts talking about the mediocre food at most restaurants. Will guests remain willing to pay such high prices for atmosphere alone?

I have always said that the construction of the four seasons was an admission by Disney:

We charge too much for what we're willing to give in services...you do it.

As far as the restaurants go...I don't think free dining is a lynchpin like it was 5 years ago...but I do see some shift in dining habits. I know mine have and the restaurants are the single biggest reason why I became a frequent customer.

The price is double and the quality just isn't there.

Is it enough to cause a major problem yet? No...but ten years ago I never though deluxes would run 50-75% occupancy (speculation...but an intelligent guess).
 
DVC is capital investment. Kinda the point.

The attractions would require new investment capital, but if you offer Norway A&E FP+ (or a 4th for Soarin 2, or a 4th for TSM 2, or a 4th for either of the Avatar attractions or any new Star Wars attractions) as a 4th FP+ only to Deluxe-then sell remaining availability on the app for the price commanded by demand (time of year, attraction built-like Tron would be more etc) could be $1, $5, $10, $20 whatever-that goes toward construction of a ride built by deluxe guests and app purchases. The reset are SB. And no reason/excuse not to build more.

The other incentives cost nothing. 90 day window, no tiers, extra FP+'s, rerides, hopping picks.

.

Wow...DVC is them "putting themselves out there" for you, huh?

As far as charging for really...really...really dated offerings...

It's not a bad plan...but that has to assume that Disney parks have nearly unlimited price potential...

wow...I'm not there.
 

Wow...DVC is them "putting themselves out there" for you, huh?

As far as charging for really...really...really dated offerings...

It's not a bad plan...but that has to assume that Disney parks have nearly unlimited price potential...

wow...I'm not there.

Just adding suggestions. You said capital was required-there ya go.

wow....I'm there.
 
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Now that's laying it on pretty thick, and honestly I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. And to say that AT&T is too small in comparison (as far as companies in general are concerned) is flat out ludicrous. You do realize that Telephone and Telegraph are part of that acronym? Disney will never achieve the impact to American or world society the way Ma Bell did.

As a business, Tim Cook over at Apple could dig up the change in his sofa and buy Disney five times over.

Adjusted for inflation, John D Rockefeller by himself was worth nearly ten times as much as Disney. Countless other individuals and companies have contributed more to the world than Disney ever will. If you ask who was more influential on society - Henry Ford or Walt Disney - there's no real comparison when one created a cartoon and the other took the assembly line to the next level and changed the world economy.

I won't dispute the impact on entertainment (although I'll dispute the degree of impact), but don't go into a comparison with regards to a business impact.

Clearly Disney is the center of your universe and that's fine, but don't place it on an altar.

We are talking two different things: You are talking pure business value and I am talking cultural impact. As far as positive cultural saturation goes, Disney is near at the top and they are the biggest entertainment cultural force in the world. They have lots of money, too, but I am talking about how the public is aware of and loves Disney. No other entertainment company comes close. And Disney is on the rise around the world.

Sorry, Tim...

I see we're all buddies now...

But your previous characterization/ rant directed specifically at me couldn't have been more wrong...it was presumptuous and condescending...and borderline personal.

I'm thick skinned...and I like to muse in a meaningful exchange with anyone... Even the quacks who are 100% wrong (not you... To be clear... The nuts that say "it's not money...it's magic and dreams!!" And my favorite - "only 718 days till I book my adrs!!!!"...The Act like ya been there before types)...so I like all opinions...even those I staunchly disagree with...

But why... Oh why...should I be required to give you things that you deem "positive"?

Disney has done tons of positive, innovative things...the list could go on for days...

Recently, in wdw? Not so much.

This is where I tow the "hater" line...

Those that "hate"... Are actually the core defenders of what the place was and could be...
Those that accept - I fear - will one day say "hey... What happened?"...when it's far too late to affect anything.

Good night, god bless ;)

I apologize. Should have asked instead of told and shouldn't have said some of those things. Thank you for your measured response. I just wondered if you had 5 positives you wanted to and could share. Positivity is good for the soul. I can give you 5 negatives, but they are vastly outweighed by the positives of late, in my opinion. (Empty pavilion in Epcot, room sizes-particularly small and dark at All Star), Empty buildings at DHS, lack of benches in parks, and not enough hot tubs)

I understand you and others see change you don't like and want to defend the place that was. I just don't see it. I see lots of good, a little negative, and seems like things are on the way up.

Maybe if things get better (Pandora turns out to be awesome and they spend a park full of money on a great SW land) you will feel differently. Maybe as I go more often and get more familiar with the place I will begin to see some serious negatives. Time will tell.

I just want you to be happy, man! :) Oh, and I can be one of THOSE people: I book my ADR's tomorrow morning at 6:00! (Actually my son will do it for us.) :P

God Bless!
 
Maybe as I go more often and get more familiar with the place I will begin to see some serious negatives. Time will tell.

Unfortunately, it is time that points these things out. People that go the first few times tend to have a great experience (I think they struggle to justify the cost, but still have a good time). Those of us that have been going for decades and have seen the evolution - or lack thereof - would like to see some positive improvements at WDW. Other parks in the empire have seen vast improvements or infusions of investment, which WDW really hasn't seen. When you consider that it is, essentially, twice the size of DL and four times the size of Disney's other parks, you would expect it should have a matching size infusion of money over time, and that this infusion should translate to a better experience. Over the past five years, there is a new FantasyLand in MK, but most other parks have seen reductions in their offerings to customers (us). DHS is barely a shell of what it once was, and what it is capable of becoming.

I think you will see what many of us vent about on these boards in time. Having been attending WDW for over 35 years, I still have fun, but it is a far cry from what it was even 10-15 years ago. I will always hope it returns to the constantly improving place that Walt first envisioned, but for now, we have to be content with a nice experience at the parks, and a little venting about "the good old days' on these boards.
 
The other incentives cost nothing. 90 day window, no tiers, extra FP+'s, rerides, hopping picks..

My bet is those things WILL end up costing them. In it's present state, they could be losing future customers. Using those "incentives" as perks like you describe might bring some guests in thru the front door but could also drive an exodus out the back door.
 
My bet is those things WILL end up costing them. In it's present state, they could be losing future customers. Using those "incentives" as perks like you describe might bring some guests in thru the front door but could also drive an exodus out the back door.

Possible. Heard that about the 60 30 rule as well though. Plus it could be offered seasonally, and as more attractions come on line.
 
DVC is capital investment. Kinda the point.

The attractions would require new investment capital, but if you offer Norway A&E FP+ (or a 4th for Soarin 2, or a 4th for TSM 2, or a 4th for either of the Avatar attractions or any new Star Wars attractions) as a 4th FP+ only to Deluxe-then sell remaining availability on the app for the price commanded by demand (time of year, attraction built-like Tron would be more etc) could be $1, $5, $10, $20 whatever-that goes toward construction of a ride built by deluxe guests and app purchases. The reset are SB. And no reason/excuse not to build more.

The other incentives cost nothing. 90 day window, no tiers, extra FP+'s, rerides, hopping picks.

.
Possible. Heard that about the 60 30 rule as well though. Plus it could be offered seasonally, and as more attractions come on line.
They're short what, 9-12 solid rides across Property?

I mean, we have 2 Parks with Tiering, with the flagship in pretty good shape only because of nostalgia and getting the masses to select FP's for Parades and Fireworks.

They have nothing extra to sell as far as capacity. It's easy to say what you're saying. So, toss some math and a timeline in it to prove your premise.

Because to do that. Some class of guest is going to have to give theirs up
 
My bet is those things WILL end up costing them. In it's present state, they could be losing future customers. Using those "incentives" as perks like you describe might bring some guests in thru the front door but could also drive an exodus out the back door.

I have been saying this for years. I believe it has already starting costing them in terms of future customers. In their haste to drive up profits, they are solely focused on new customers, as they are more likely to spend money on a trip. That will work for a time, but new customers don't visit in tough economic times (like the recent recession), and that is the scenario that seems to have scared Disney execs to death (financially speaking). They are grasping at solutions that don't solve the problems that they seem to see. Unless something else came to light during the recession that none of us can see right now.
 
They have nothing extra to sell as far as capacity. It's easy to say what you're saying. So, toss some math and a timeline in it to prove your premise.

They have nothing to sell for extra capacity at WDW, but they have lots of extra capacity in Europe, and before too long in Asia. I hate the idea, but maybe Disney is trying to force people to spread their vacations to parks other than WDW because it has reached its max capacity in terms of what they are willing to build at this point.
 
They have nothing to sell for extra capacity at WDW, but they have lots of extra capacity in Europe, and before too long in Asia. I hate the idea, but maybe Disney is trying to force people to spread their vacations to parks other than WDW because it has reached its max capacity in terms of what they are willing to build at this point.
DVC is capital investment. Kinda the point.

The attractions would require new investment capital, but if you offer Norway A&E FP+ (or a 4th for Soarin 2, or a 4th for TSM 2, or a 4th for either of the Avatar attractions or any new Star Wars attractions) as a 4th FP+ only to Deluxe-then sell remaining availability on the app for the price commanded by demand (time of year, attraction built-like Tron would be more etc) could be $1, $5, $10, $20 whatever-that goes toward construction of a ride built by deluxe guests and app purchases. The reset are SB. And no reason/excuse not to build more.

The other incentives cost nothing. 90 day window, no tiers, extra FP+'s, rerides, hopping picks.

.

They're short what, 9-12 solid rides across Property?

I mean, we have 2 Parks with Tiering, with the flagship in pretty good shape only because of nostalgia and getting the masses to select FP's for Parades and Fireworks.

They have nothing extra to sell as far as capacity. It's easy to say what you're saying. So, toss some math and a timeline in it to prove your premise.

Because to do that. Some class of guest is going to have to give theirs up

Ahhhh...and here we are back at the guts of it...yet again...

They are short on attractions to "maximize" FP+ in the parks-esp busier weeks. I really think AK is on track, and have a feeling DHS is as well. Adding Frozen and Soarin 2 and TSM 2 will also help-AS THEY COME ONLINE.

I happen to think with what they are planning things will be fine. Slower seasons were already very workable (when we visited in Mar).

But stay with me a minute.

I have no reason to believe what I suggest will happen.

Am only thinking of a way WDW would have the capital to build more attractions-without spending theirs as mentioned here.

I am saying they could decide today to build Tron at EPCOT (for example). Offering that attraction as an extra FP+ to deluxe would help fill deluxe IMO. Then leftovers are sold on the app. Everyone else is SB. Over a 10 (or 20) year period they would recover the entire attraction.

Everyone in SB should high 5 the FP+ guests as they walk by-because the ride would not even be there if not for them.

Once it is paid off-it can go back to a "4th" FP+ for everyone.

Frozen Norway would pay off in about 3 to 5 years depends on capacity.

Why is suggesting solutions/options/ideas such a negative thing?

App purchases are very popular in many businesses. Prices can change throughout the day depending on demand.

ipad_app_store_swipe.jpg




 
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Somebody go back and count how many times on this thread, and then on the disboards-"not enough capacity" is complained about.

Yet the only suggested solutions are-WDW should just pay for more rides (and drop prices as well). Well of course they could (and maybe even should), but if they are not (but arguably they are) where are the ideas?

And if the for sure major recession is coming-why would WDW go crazier than what they are planning now?
 
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Maybe because they want to earn as much money as they can before anything changes. Many companies are heavily about short-term profits nowadays.

Or maybe they have big plans and we will all be amazed at the wonder of it all. Does that sound as phony to everyone else as it does to me?
 
Somebody go back and count how many times on this thread, and then on the disboards-"not enough capacity" is complained about.

Yet the only suggested solutions are-WDW should just pay for more rides (and drop prices as well). Well of course they could (and maybe even should), but if they are not (but arguably they are) where are the ideas?

And if the for sure major recession is coming-why would WDW go crazier than what they are planning now?
True, capacity is an issue. But we don't even know for sure how many attractions will be added to Avatarland, the addition of more capacity on Soarin' and TSMM is not enough. As far as any other improvements, there have been no statements about what's coming or how long it will be. A "Star Wars presence in the theme parks" could mean the addition of a gift shop or restroom and it may be 20 years down the road.
 
Am only thinking of a way WDW would have the capital to build more attractions-without spending theirs as mentioned here.

I am saying they could decide today to build Tron at EPCOT (for example). Offering that attraction as an extra FP+ to deluxe would help fill deluxe IMO. Then leftovers are sold on the app. Everyone else is SB. Over a 10 (or 20) year period they would recover the entire attraction.

Everyone in SB should high 5 the FP+ guests as they walk by-because the ride would not even be there if not for them.

Once it is paid off-it can go back to a "4th" FP+ for everyone.
Hmmm...

That would be an interesting Marketing Message:

"For Only $105.00, Come to WDW and experience our Magical attractions! Well except for that new one you really want to ride - that one's extra, or you can ride if you spend another $500 per night with us...."

Even the Orlando Sentinel, that bastion of Disney love, would rip them apart for that.

Disney has plenty of available capital to build whatever they want to - gobs of it. Check the 10K. Those extra funds in the manner you are suggesting would still go into the same revenue buckets as every other dollar earned.

You don't break things out separately like that nor would they want to.
 
Why is suggesting solutions/options/ideas such a negative thing?

It isn't so much that suggesting ideas is a negative thing, but rather that when those ideas cost more money than we are already spending to go on vacation that people feel like they are getting burned. There is already a feeling of "those with the most money win" throughout this country, so that the idea that if you have plenty of money to spend, you can just buy your way to the front of the line, makes the "masses" feel burned. I think most people feel that once you pay to get in the door of a theme park, the attractions should not cost more money to enjoy (unless you are going back to the old system of no admission fee but tickets for each ride). If you charge me $100+ per person to get in the door, then greet me with 60-120 minute lines for every attraction meaning I can only enjoy 6-10 attractions before your park closes, UNLESS I spend an extra $100 per person to buy fast passes to get into more attractions, then I am feeling REALLY burned up about the experience.

If on the other hand, I feel like you are investing some of the profit that I have provided you to improve my experience, then I feel like everything I have paid for is worth my money. Right now, this is not the scenario playing out at WDW, the first one is, and it is infuriating. It also has to do with the perceived value of the investment that is being made. Nearly a billion dollars to add two rides to AK? That seems ridiculous. You're spending less than 10 times that to get an entire theme park in Asia. How about we find a way to not so drastically overpay for the experience, how about we blend E-ticket attractions with other level attractions for a better overall experience. If you only want e-tickets, get a 1- or 2-day park hopper and split your time with US and IOA. I would rather have the complete experience that WDW can offer with attractions of all levels.

Take these magic bands and realize that the lines are longest for e-tickets and family attractions. Have you seen the line for Snow White, Winnie the Pooh, Small World, etc? They are some of the longest in MK, roughly equal to Space M, BTMRR, and SM at most times.

One of the problems is that many people want different things, or at least think they do. What we all want, is to enjoy our vacations without feeling like we spent the whole thing in line or getting rooked for our hard earned dollar.

My solutions are:
1) to spend around $2.5 billion at DHS spread across 10-12 attractions of varying complexity levels, probably over 2-4 years. Expand animation courtyard with more things for kids and adults to do that are just "playing", provide a short "how to" movie that is 5-10 minutes long, add a small theater with old Disney cartoons that run continuously or every 10 minutes, etc. Expand entire Lucas area with both Indy and Star Wars attractions (2-4 total). Expand Pixar place with 2-4 attractions from Monsters, Incredibles, Up, Brave, WALL-E or Cars. Expand Muppet presence. Add some type of Roger Rabbit attraction. My kids just saw this movie and LOVED it. Come up with an additional attraction or two from Disney vaults - like Herbie, National Treasure, Santa Clause, Bolt, Princess and Frog, Tangled, Tron, or Wreck it Ralph.
2) to spend around $1.5 billion at EPCOT spread across improvements and new attractions over 2-4 years. Energy and IMagination need near complete overhauls. We need the WOnders of Life pavilion to return, even if somewhat different than its original incarnation. Some type of Horizons needs to return. That was a great concept and is sorely missed in EPCOT. Many of the countries need small types of attractions to make it more than a dining extravaganza. Canada needs a log flume tour, Japan could use the oft talked about bullet train ride, Italy would be fantastic with a tour of their cultural identity in some type of boat ride/arial tour, or a Pompeii "adventure", would America be better with an Imax tour of our biggest natural wonders (Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite, Hoover Dam, etc.); Germany with a train ride through their castles and countryside, or a matterhorn style mountain ride, and France with a countryside tour by "truck" or omniomover.
3) to spend another $750 million in AK to expand more small rides for families and kids. Mine love the carnival area, but it is still a little intense for my smaller kids. We still need 4-6 small attractions in this park.
4) to spend another $500 million in MK to expand TOmorrowland and Fantasyland (again). There is still a need for more attractions to balance out the number of visitors in this park.

With time, I can come up with more concrete plans if Disney is really interested. However, at around $100 million for a really good attraction, and $250 for an E-ticket, Disney is spending more than just about anyone in the industry for improvements. Some of that is worth the cost, some, not so much. Even if you average $150 million per attraction (I include shows in this), I think you can make huge improvements to these parks (including in capacity) with around a $5.5 billion investment over 5 years. Easy to say, I know. I do realize that is around 2 years of profit for the entire Disney company, so it isn't likely. However, these improvement costs should be getting set aside every year so that it is more palatable to the annual budget. Then you can move forward spending around $500 million each year to upgrade and maintain the facility rather than needing these massive overhauls.

Is this where I also put in for the monorail to visit all major parks?
 
Hmmm...

That would be an interesting Marketing Message:

"For Only $105.00, Come to WDW and experience our Magical attractions! Well except for that new one you really want to ride - that one's extra, or you can ride if you spend another $500 per night with us...."

Even the Orlando Sentinel, that bastion of Disney love, would rip them apart for that.

Disney has plenty of available capital to build whatever they want to - gobs of it. Check the 10K. Those extra funds in the manner you are suggesting would still go into the same revenue buckets as every other dollar earned.

You don't break things out separately like that nor would they want to.

Well did the rip them apart when deluxe concierge added a 4th last month?

As for spending capital-as I said they could and maybe should, they have no excuse though if guests pay for it.

Breaking things out is exactly what the do at UNI.
 
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