Disneyland Needs Help

[3DisneyFanz]

Funny, if you go to the WDW boards you'll find a lot of people think the exact opposite.

We're thinking about making our first trip to DL in a few years and as I was reading this I thought the same thing. Nothing in the OP is exclusive to DL and just seems to be SOP for the parks at this point.

 

[Tracy Constantine]

I did send this to a few email addresses at Disney as well as a letter in the mail. I haven't heard anything back. I sent it months ago.

Some points. I LOVE Disneyland and pretty much all things Disney. I know it's not the same place as when I was a kid, and maybe growing up has made me cynical. I own a business myself and know that my customers can't all be pleased all the time. I accept that. But as I stated earlier, I think things have gotten a bit away from the vision of Walt. I hope that it can be corrected. Thank you all for being kind to me and my venting. I go often during many times of the year, so I experience crowds of all kinds and seasons. I've done this for years. I also take my little girls to park as often as I can and they do love it. I just don't want to worry about them getting trampled in the pushing throngs of people. I know that's dramatic, but I'm over protective of my kids..

I am glad to see so many people still love the park and can over look the flaws. I wish I could do the same.

Also, I'm a 'he' not a 'she'...for the record

 

[SMD]

I would say that Disneyland makes more from out of town guests. Yes. But I do admit I'm making a guess here. Without any real data, there's no way to know. I would consider myself a "local" from San Diego. Aside from our AP's and parking passes we can easily make a trip to Disneyland for no money out of pocket. This is by no means "data" but it is an example of why I think the way I do

Disneyland has this data though. Why do you think AP holders get discounts on food and merchandise? That is some valuable data right there as to your spending habits. That plus the surveys at the front gate, I'm sure Disney knows exactly what it's doing. The way they data mine is brilliant.

It might take me 3-4 visits to reach 12 hours in the park, at which point I've probably spent more on food and souvenirs than many guests who do a full 12 hour day. But I can see where parking is an issue. Because if I only occupy the space for 3 hours and leave it, they can't easily refill the parking space due to the way they do parking. And then that's $17 they potentially lose selling that spot to someone who pays daily to park.

But I also think that the part of eliminating the parking pass has to do with additional revenue. Sort of like how the airlines have started charging for checked bags and seat assignments that used to be included in the fare. I've spoken to people who think it's a great deal that they only have to spend $16/$17 to park each time they go because they "break even" on the AP and find that price comparatively cheap. You should see their eyes widen when I used to tell them that there's a parking add on.

 

[disney144]

I've been seeing a lot of negativity on her towards APs recently. Disneyland is our park too. We grew up going here. Many of us worked here at some point. We've had first dates and fallen in love here. We spent time with friends here when we were just old enough to go out without parents. We have celebrated birthdays, anniversaries, and Tuesday afternoons here. We cheers to the end of finals and the start of summer. We ditched school to spend the day with friends in the park. We sit in cars land with a beer and watch the sunset. We rush there after work to catch the fireworks. We spend the evening watching the bands in downtown Disney. We stop to say hello to our favorite cast members.

It is our park. Disneyland needs us, just like we need it. Disneyland is and always will be a locals park. Just because you are visiting from out of town or out state does not give you more of a right to our park. You are not entitled to a day free of APs just because you forked over $100 for a day ticket. At the end of the day, Disneyland is still ours, and we are still theirs.

 

[FryingPansWhoKnew]

I've been seeing a lot of negativity on her towards APs recently.

I hope I'm not perceived that way as I am a "local". I'm just trying to look at the situation objectively.

I am glad to see so many people still love the park and can over look the flaws. I wish I could do the same.

I don't necessarily see it as my overlooking flaws, more like having a realistic expectation.

It might take me 3-4 visits to reach 12 hours in the park, at which point I've probably spent more on food and souvenirs than many guests who do a full 12 hour day.

I suppose I could be wrong as we are both presenting anecdotal evidence. Disney has the data I'm sure of it and their recent moves to discontinue the SoCal and parking pass has me thinking they've concluded locals spend less.

 

[NannyBeBe]

Mr. Disney said that the hope was that Disneyland would be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world. The park belongs to everyone. We all should be able to enjoy it on the same level, regardless of what we paid to get in or how far we traveled.

 

[disneydadazut2]

At the end of the day, Disneyland is still ours, and we are still theirs.

Exhibit A

 

[beachdreamr1229]

Exhibit A

You might be misunderstanding this. Disneyland is ours. It's all of ours. We (APs and ticketed guests) are a part of Disneyland and Disneyland is a part of us or we wouldn't be active on a forum like this. Why does it always have to come down to APs vs. ticketed? We all love the park. We all want it to be as wonderful as possible. How it gets there is really a matter of opinion, but honestly, neither side is to blame. Things aren't going to magically go back to where parks were empty for half of the year because it's a bad business model. So, making APs or regular tickets unaffordable to the point where they are no longer purchased essentially hurts the company, which in turn hurts all consumers as the revenue to create new things and maintain is diminished. Either way, your solution hurts all of us as a collective community.

Does anyone here understand Disney's business model well enough that they can weigh in on this?

"Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?"

 

[disneydadazut2]

Why does it always have to come down to APs vs. ticketed? We all love the park.

"Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?"

Sorry, I didn't mean to get us sidetracked. My point was - the affordability of AP tickets drives the crowds and the crowds strain patience for CMs and guests alike. And to be clear, I don't mind having all tickets prices raised. I wouldn't mind paying more for less crowds. I have actually told Disney this directly.

 

[FryingPansWhoKnew]

Does anyone here understand Disney's business model well enough that they can weigh in on this?

I think you have a good sense of the business model actually. I think the market could support higher prices, but raising prices to meet the supply/demand convergence would damage the brand.

Whether it's true or not, Disney seems to have a cosmopolitan aspect to it. In this very thread there have been posters passionately defending its accessibility and appeal to everyone. While I admire and agree with this sentiment, it still strikes me as something that is strangely unique to this company, inspiring an unwavering devotion by even some of its harshest critics. This devotion, this trust is what's at stake. Every price raise tugs at this trust.

Why is it always AP's vs. ticketed? Well because that's the way the pricing models have been established. It's only natural to make that comparison. I don't think it tells the whole story though and I agree it's not really fair.

For the record, I think DLR has improved tremendously from my childhood even with the crowds. I'm genuinely surprised there are people who are dissatisfied with the direction it has taken.

 

[DizMe]

I think you have a good sense of the business model actually. I think the market could support higher prices, but raising prices to meet the supply/demand convergence would damage the brand.

Whether it's true or not, Disney seems to have a cosmopolitan aspect to it. In this very thread there have been posters passionately defending its accessibility and appeal to everyone. While I admire and agree with this sentiment, it still strikes me as something that is strangely unique to this company, inspiring an unwavering devotion by even some of its harshest critics. This devotion, this trust is what's at stake. Every price raise tugs at this trust.

Why is it always AP's vs. ticketed? Well because that's the way the pricing models have been established. It's only natural to make that comparison. I don't think it tells the whole story though and I agree it's not really fair.

For the record, I think DLR has improved tremendously from my childhood even with the crowds. I'm genuinely surprised there are people who are dissatisfied with the direction it has taken.

Oh, it has improved tremendously since the 80s/90s. You're right about that...those years saw some genuinely abysmal quality (thanks to certain company execs). Thankfully, they recognized the error and went in a different direction--and went back to many of the previous successful models. Now, I find the quality to be very high but often at the expense of the families that visit (NOS remodel, loss of Court of Angels to Club 33). The direction Disney is headed may end up turning it into a place that is not accessible to a lot of people because they won't be able to afford the costs. I understand the desire to limit excessive crowds, but it makes me sad that the method being touted to do it is by pricing out those who are unable to pay as much, which effectively squeezes out those on the lower socio-economic rungs. And on another note, I wish the CMs were more valued--they are a huge part of what makes or breaks the DL experience for park visitors.

There are many who work for Disney, love and respect what it's about and seek to keep it magical. My issue is mainly with those at the highest decision-making levels. This isn't a Disney problem per se, but the way our society is set up where corporations must put profit above everything else, even when the profit is already huge. The original company purpose can easily get lost in that scenario.

 

[NannyBeBe]

I think at some point DLR will have to address the stroller issue.

 

[peterpanandwendy]

Yeah, actually it would be best if Disneyland was made to be solely for rich adult's with no children. That makes the most sense for me. Than nobody would have to deal with the poor riffraff (who are so rude and selfish), or snotty nosed, ice cream covered screaming kids in strollers. Then you could take leisure walks down the main street, surrounded by other rich couples in fascinators. Lets just price it right out the realm of reality so that only, say, a few hundred very wealthy patrons can enjoy the park each day… Or, we could have a plebeian day, where all the poor are allowed into the park…

Since my 2 year old daughter is severely special needs and so I am not working right now, and since we are coming from Canada, so it costs us around $5000 each trip, the would rule me out totally. I would have to come on Plebian Day, I guess… but I would totally make the sacrifice so that others don't have to wait behind her wheel chair, or be stuck in a line with us….

I guess it's just pure selfishness and entitlement that I should even consider myself important enough to even get to enjoy Disneyland in the first place. I have obviously been truly misguided to believe that if we work hard enough and save hard enough we should all be able to enjoy Walt's Gift. Disneyland IS only for Trust Funders. I get that know. I can't believe I have been so naive.

Poor Disney, they are in for a rude awakening when they narrow down their clientele to only the top %2….

PS - Of course I'm being facetious… and I'm not directing this at anyone in particular… I could just see where the conversation was going and had to do some speculative satire….

 

[Xenorye]

Yeah, actually it would be best if Disneyland was made to be solely for rich adult's with no children. That makes the most sense for me. Than nobody would have to deal with the poor riffraff (who are so rude and selfish), or snotty nosed, ice cream covered screaming kids in strollers. Then you could take leisure walks down the main street, surrounded by other rich couples in fascinators. Lets just price it right out the realm of reality so that only, say, a few hundred very wealthy patrons can enjoy the park each day… Or, we could have a plebeian day, where all the poor are allowed into the park…

Since my 2 year old daughter is severely special needs and so I am not working right now, and since we are coming from Canada, so it costs us around $5000 each trip, the would rule me out totally. I would have to come on Plebian Day, I guess… but I would totally make the sacrifice so that others don't have to wait behind her wheel chair, or be stuck in a line with us….

I guess it's just pure selfishness and entitlement that I should even consider myself important enough to even get to enjoy Disneyland in the first place. I have obviously been truly misguided to believe that if we work hard enough and save hard enough we should all be able to enjoy Walt's Gift. Disneyland IS only for Trust Funders. I get that know. I can't believe I have been so naive.

Poor Disney, they are in for a rude awakening when they narrow down their clientele to only the top %2….

This response is like when you try to start a conversation about sports with your super political uncle who somehow transitions from football to that darn Obama and his Obamacare.

 

[peterpanandwendy]

yeah, i tend to be that uncle. My mind goes 20 steps ahead… I was reading the posts and was thinking, "oh Geez, well, i know where this is going"… so i went there.

 

[NannyBeBe]

Don't get me wrong. I am not against strollers. I went to DLR for decades with two strollers, first for my twin daughters and then for my twin granddaughters. I'm just wondering if there would be any way to manage the strollers that would help both the parents and the other visitors. I don't have the answer.

 

[SMD]

Don't get me wrong. I am not against strollers. I went to DLR for decades with two strollers, first for my twin daughters and then for my twin granddaughters. I'm just wondering if there would be any way to manage the strollers that would help both the parents and the other visitors. I don't have the answer.

One thing they could do right now is put a maximum size on strollers (since they already have tags for stroller as wheelchair they could also do this for exceptions for medical needs) and enforce safety rules. Now, they haven't been able to keep kids from steering ECVs from someone's lap, so I don't see it happening, but when I was waiting for 3+ hours for Paint the Night do you know how many people I saw with their kids riding on the footrest, or sitting unstrapped across the safety bar on a stroller? Several times they stopped short because the kid put their feet on the ground. Well, if they were strapped into the seat they couldn't reach the ground. I've also seen kids fall out of strollers and off of laps on wheelchairs on the hill heading down to Toontown.

 

[jeffg4]

The bottom line is that Disney is a business, and it charges what it thinks you will be willing to pay and it spends its money on what it chooses to spend it on contingent on what it believes will keep you coming back. YOU decide to go there and spend your money. It's the same with professional sports. I never understand the people that complain about the pro atheletes making millions of dollars. They make millions of dollars because YOU buy tickets to the games and YOU buy the products that are endorsed and advertised during the games.

 

[DizMe]

The bottom line is that Disney is a business, and it charges what it thinks you will be willing to pay and it spends its money on what it chooses to spend it on contingent on what it believes will keep you coming back. YOU decide to go there and spend your money. It's the same with professional sports. I never understand the people that complain about the pro atheletes making millions of dollars. They make millions of dollars because YOU buy tickets to the games and YOU buy the products that are endorsed and advertised during the games.

That is a very simplistic explanation which does not take into account any number of factors; however, there is a definite point to your argument--our society has elevated sports to a level that makes it possible to charge what they do. However, I see the same thing with sports as with Disney. It simply isn't going to be in the realm of possibility for many if the prices keep increasing the way they have. It's economics, certainly. It's just that Disney at one time was not primarily about profit. Some quotes from Walt:
"When we opened Disneyland, a lot of people got the impressions that it was a get-rich-quick thing, but they didn't realize that behind Disneyland was this great organization that I built here at the Studio, and they all got into it and we were doing it because we loved to do it."

"Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."

 

[bumbershoot]

I understand your concerns about privacy, but some people (myself included) purposely use full names for the purpose of transparency. (I don't like the anonymity of the Internet, as it allows people to say things they wouldn't necessarily say if their names were attached to their statements.)

But now I know your full name and when you are going to be GONE from your home for your vacation. If I were a creeper and a thief, this would be terrific info.

Say what you want to say because your name and face are there (I also know what you look like!), but don't put personal information in the same place.

I won't be going back to Disneyland. They have some serious work to do.

Every thing the OP wrote could apply to ANY themepark on ANY day. Crowds, upkeep, merchandise, and grumpy CMs. Everywhere. To think you'll avoid them at WDW is just silly. I've found THE grumpiest CMs at WDW. But I've also found kind CMs at WDW and grumpy ones at DL. I consistently have the best employee interactions at Universal Orlando (they are TMs there).

And upkeep is dependent on the day/week/month you are there.

When DS was 3 we went a few times. On one visit the ONLY thing I noticed was the dust on the *ceiling* of Small World (how does THAT happen?) and the chipping paint and all of that. We went back a few months later and voila, like magic, it was all clean. OK so small world, I believe, was refurbished, but everything else was fixed that I had noticed before. I imagined that there could have been a CM 5 minutes behind me as I noticed the paint, painting things. I didn't go back to check during that trip, so who knows?

I believe I know how to fix the problem - and at the risk of upsetting others here, I'm going to say it... DL needs to stop making Annual Passes affordable.

In what universe are DL APs *affordable*????

They couldn't maintain the $99/$156 1 day ticket price if they drastically reduced the number of APs. The park and the city would not operate on out of town guests alone.

Why are we always assuming that AP holders are also locals? Why?

There are locals who have APs.

There are semi-locals who are not. (my brother for instance)

There are further-away visitors who buy tickets. (I have done that)

There are further-away visitors who buy APs. (I have done that and we're likely doing it again)

I've been seeing a lot of negativity on her towards APs recently.

It's always. People always like to put down people who buy APs.

I have actually told Disney this directly.

Oh please stop doing that.