Disneyland fire trap

[Sherry E]

I also wonder if part of the reason for more crowds (or crowds at "slow" times of the year) could be because of the economy. What I mean is that maybe more local people than usual are going to DLR for day trips instead of going on vacation somewhere else in order to spend less money but still do something fun. Sort of like a staycation.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Staycations. I was pondering this very subject last night, after reading Bumbershoot's post about this year being an anomaly, overall, in terms of attendance and heavy crowds when we don't expect them and lighter crowds when it would normally be jam-packed. I think the economy has VERY much influenced DLR this past year, and may continue to influence it next year if things don't pick up soon. Not only are many SoCal residents staying closer to home (Staycationing) and visiting DLR more often than they might have if the economy hadn't taken such a nosedive, but they are also visiting DLR more during the typically less expensive 'off-peak seasons,' such as October. When you are literally counting your cents to scrape together money for a family vacation, and you see that you can visit DLR with a stay at one of the DLR hotels in October for MUCH less than what you would pay to stay there in summer or in December, you will probably pick the 'off-peak' time to go. Even at Goofy's Kitchen, there is something like a $6.00 difference between the off-peak breakfast buffet price in October and the peak breakfast buffet price in December!!! And saving little bits of money here and there does add up. Also, the people in neighboring states like AZ, NV and OR are probably coming to DLR more often for the same reasons too. Basically, it is closer and cheaper than going to WDW!

I am actually wondering if this coming December IS going to be as crowded at DLR right around Christmas as it usually is. It seems like it could go one of two ways. Either all the 'staycationers' who would normally travel out of state to visit family for the holidays will descend on DLR instead, just to have something to do for Christmas, OR they will stay away from DLR this year en masse because they need to save the money they might normally spend there in December on traveling to family gatherings and buying presents for everyone. I suspect a lot of those December DLR visitors already went in October to save some money.

Also, it does seem like many more folks are getting AP's of all different levels now, because it is cheaper than if they paid separate admission every time they went in, and if they start using it for discounts on food, etc., immediately, as I did, that pays off in pretty decent dividends instantaneously. So even though AP holders probably spend more money in a lot of ways than people who just pay admission separately each trip, a lot of brand new AP holders probably assume that the AP will pay for itself and save them a lot of money down the road, so they start going to DLR during all the periods they are not blacked out - the off-peak times, more or less - and that adds to the crowds a little bit, but it is certainly not the sole source of the crowds.

 

[bumbershoot]

See I just don't see AP holders being the type to go or stay on hugely busy days like the one day talked about in the OP. If you are local enough that it's literally a day trip, you know you can come back another day as soon as you see those crowds rolling in. If you're semi-local (northern CA for instance) you're probably staying another day or more and you can come back. If you are further away like me, you're on a longer trip and hop or just leave the park and try again the next day. Or if you're on a quick trip like I've been, you knew very well that the likelihood of "doing it all" and encountering big crowds can always happen, and you'll hop or go back to the hotel.

I've been reading that with WDW, their crowds are heavily made up by people from around the world this year. They stay longer (and for DLR, check out that 14 day pass people in some countries can get!), it's a BIG trip, but since they are there for longer they can just ditch the day, hop, and/or just get out of a crazy-crowded park.

To me, the people who go *and stay* on a day that ends up being crowded are the "once in a lifetime" trip people who will not be getting an AP, won't be coming back for a couple years, and really feel strongly that they *have to stay* for that evening b/c there are no do-overs.


And yes, if we had not gotten an AP in '07-'08 we definitely would have saved money. DLR would have gotten our package deal of a few days at PPH with one character breakfast included, and that's it. Instead we stayed for those few days, upgraded (more money), changed hotels (more money for the local economy), had more days in the parks (food money, souvenir money). And I think, all told, I spent something like 18 days, partial or full, in the parks in the year of our APs? We're not big eaters and we don't buy a ton, but we ate more at the parks and bought more stuff over the year than if we had just stuck with the original hopper and NOT gone more times throughout the year.

Definitely could have saved ourselves some money, but wowie what a boring year that would have been!

 

[Gisele]

I've never heard of the 3-day coming with free parking. Where did you hear that?

That is via AAA park hopper purchases. I believe it stops after the 3 day park hopper tickets. For I remember seeing recently as well, added benefits for up to the 3 day on their pricing list. And did not see that type of wording for 4 day or more.

 

[Gisele]

I would like to know why Americans cannot purchase those lovely 14 day passes? Anyone know? Any clues? (sigh)

 

[JaneJetson]

Off topic.

I don't understand how the economy would be effecting trips to Disneyland other than gas prices were high. And airline prices were high. Although I think they've both gone down.

I hate that everyone is panicing about the economy. It's getting to be ridiculous. How much has the average person really been effected (other than gas and whatnot? I mean, if you don't have money in the stocks or mutual funds or anything...I just don't see how it's effecting you.

 

[Sherry E]

Off topic.

I don't understand how the economy would be effecting trips to Disneyland other than gas prices were high. And airline prices were high. Although I think they've both gone down.

I hate that everyone is panicing about the economy. It's getting to be ridiculous. How much has the average person really been effected (other than gas and whatnot? I mean, if you don't have money in the stocks or mutual funds or anything...I just don't see how it's effecting you.

Easy answer. People have no money! It goes way beyond stocks and gas prices. People are being laid off left and right (myself included) and/or are not able to find new jobs (I personally know several folks this has happened to), or folks are being forced to take jobs that severely underpay just to keep money coming in. The 'older' workers are being let go. The 'younger' people cannot get hired. And everyone else is hanging on for dear life! Everyone is in debt. Not to mention that there is a tremendous deficit. That is how the economy is affecting DLR attendance. In a big way. People cannot afford to go to DLR like they may have been able to before, or have to find the cheaper ways to do it. Some folks I know have even slipped into 'survival mode' and are stocking up on grains and storable food items because they are convinced we are headed into a depression! SOme people are very concerned. You are lucky if it is not affecting you in any way!

 

[JaneJetson]

Apparently I am lucky. And so are all of the people around me. I don't know anyone who has been laid off or lost their job or anything. I don't know anyone that has gone into "survival mode."

And not EVERYONE is in debt.

 

[Sherry E]

Apparently I am lucky. And so are all of the people around me. I don't know anyone who has been laid off or lost their job or anything. I don't know anyone that has gone into "survival mode."

And not EVERYONE is in debt.

Yes, you and your friends/family are very lucky. I am sure other folks have not been hit hard either, but many of us have been hit very hard. The unemployment rate is the highest it has been in 5 years - at least in California it is - and that is a fact told to me directly by the EDD employees I have dealt with since losing my job in February. They currently have millions of dollars in outstanding claims and not enough money to fund them all, and in one single day recently, they had 17,000 people to call back about new claims or active claims. I would be willing to bet many of those folks cannot afford a trip to DLR!

 

[JaneJetson]

Well, if people are being forced into survival mode, it sounds to me like they were probably in a bit of trouble before anything happened with the economy. And if that's the case, they really shouldn't be going on any vacation at all.

 

[Stacerita]

Well, if people are being forced into survival mode, it sounds to me like they were probably in a bit of trouble before anything happened with the economy. And if that's the case, they really shouldn't be going on any vacation at all.

That's not always the case.

 

[JaneJetson]

That's not always the case.

Obviously it's not always the case. But I'm sure a lot of the time it is.

 

[Sherry E]

Well, if people are being forced into survival mode, it sounds to me like they were probably in a bit of trouble before anything happened with the economy. And if that's the case, they really shouldn't be going on any vacation at all.

People can lose their jobs without being in any prior "trouble" and without seeing it coming. The economy is bad, no two ways about it. It just doesn't happen to affect every single person on earth. But it is still bad. And I would be willing to bet that if the only people who went on vacation to DLR or WDW were the ones who have NO debt and NO financial worries at all, DLR would probably be 3/4 empty - or more! (Oh, and my specific friends who have begun to store grains and snap into survival mode were computer techs and nurses - not in any financial trouble, per se, but scared of what they see happening with jobs, especially in California.) Other folks I know just had the rug pulled out from under them and lost their jobs. It happens.

 

[JaneJetson]

People can lose their jobs without being in any prior "trouble" and without seeing it coming. The economy is bad, no two ways about it. It just doesn't happen to affect every single person on earth. But it is still bad. And I would be willing to bet that if the only people who went on vacation to DLR or WDW were the ones who have NO debt and NO financial worries at all, DLR would probably be 3/4 empty - or more! (Oh, and my specific friends who have begun to store grains and snap into survival mode were computer techs and nurses - not in any financial trouble, per se, but scared of what they see happening with jobs, especially in California.) Other folks I know just had the rug pulled out from under them and lost their jobs. It happens.

Hasn't the economy in california been pretty terrible all the time anyway?

 

[Sherry E]

Hasn't the economy in california been pretty terrible all the time anyway?

Yes. It has been pretty lousy for a long time, and this is a state with a ton of debt, but, again the extremely high unemployment statistics this year alone - being the highest in five years - are evidence that it has taken an even more dismal turn. Even the State's employees are being laid off! In that way, I would imagine that the economy has affected DLR attendance a bit this year because many people just can't afford to go. I don't know how long it will go on that way. Maybe things will bounce back next year. I think that is also a reason why DLR has offered some of the PIN offers and other discounts they have been offering this year and into next year. Financial times are tough and they are trying to take small steps to make it easier for people to visit DLR.

Ah well, we will see what happens in 2009. Hopefully things will be on the upswing. I haven't begun to store grains or other food yet, so I haven't leapt into survivalist mode!

 

[JaneJetson]

I have money in mutual funds...so I'm hoping things go up in 2009. That's the only way I've been effected by any of this.

I'm just going to be frustrated if the elected president raises taxes.

*Note to self, fill out ballot and send it in.

 

[kiwitravel]

Off topic.

I don't understand how the economy would be effecting trips to Disneyland other than gas prices were high. And airline prices were high. Although I think they've both gone down.

I hate that everyone is panicing about the economy. It's getting to be ridiculous. How much has the average person really been effected (other than gas and whatnot? I mean, if you don't have money in the stocks or mutual funds or anything...I just don't see how it's effecting you.

It is affecting even us in New Zealand, as about as far away in terms of distance and types of economies as you can get.

The key thing is that the US economy is the biggest in the world economy by a HUGE margin and that economy is in big big trouble. The US has been running huge deficits (more than the total GDP of my country) every year and getting bigger every year. But that's not the scary part, its how they have been funding this deficit that has cause this meltdown, and too late they realized the effect of the Government Bond/Reserve Bank issue was having on the banking systems.

Until the US can get back into the black, this isn't going away. There are some that are saying this has the potentional to make the 1929 depression look like a walk in the park, I don't think it will be that bad, the US economy is too big to completely collapse and the governments of the entire world have recognised this potentional and have stepped in to guarantee the faulty banking systems. I would suggest this will be two or three years at least before things start to pick up. In the meantime expect high unemployment, the US dollar to fall back in value against the Euro and Pacific rim currencies, inflation to approach 10% and the US economy to reduce by about 1% per quarter. In other words a Recession albeit a bad one.

 

[JaneJetson]

The problem is....so many people panic. People that don't need to panic, freak out and stop spending money. What they don't realize is by doing that, they are making the problem worse. If people haven't been directly effected, they need to continue with their regular spending. Instead, so many stupid people are thinking, "Oh my God, there's going to be a depression. I better stockpile goods and stop spending money." While I can understand doing that if you don't have any money....I don't understand it if you do have the money and you haven't been hit with anything bad. I'm not saying people should run themselves into debt (no one should EVER do that.) But people that have the ability, should go about their lives normally.

 

[Gisele]

Very well stated Kiwitravel. You sound like a financial expert, that being a compliment.
Very good points as well,Sherry and Jane. And overall I agree.

 

[kiwitravel]

The problem is....so many people panic. People that don't need to panic, freak out and stop spending money. What they don't realize is by doing that, they are making the problem worse. If people haven't been directly effected, they need to continue with their regular spending. Instead, so many stupid people are thinking, "Oh my God, there's going to be a depression. I better stockpile goods and stop spending money." While I can understand doing that if you don't have any money....I don't understand it if you do have the money and you haven't been hit with anything bad. I'm not saying people should run themselves into debt (no one should EVER do that.) But people that have the ability, should go about their lives normally.

I agree that people certainly shouldn't panic, the sun will come up each day, no-one will starve or not have shelter, in the scheme of the whole universe what is happening in the US Bond and securities is very small potato.

But the key things you have pointed out are that people should continue with their regular spending and should not get into debt are right on the button. The problem is too many Americans have been borrowing for their regular spending (much like the US government is doing). Just those people reducing their spending to affordable levels will throw the US economy into recession, if those that can afford it stop spending then you will have a depression. But all evidence points to this not happening so there is absolutely no need to panic. The key indicator will be if the government can cut spending and increase taxes enough to get back into the black, once they do recovery will be swift. Both Obama and McCain have indicated there will be tax increases, their difference is which income bracket will be hit the hardest.

 

[JaneJetson]

I agree that people certainly shouldn't panic, the sun will come up each day, no-one will starve or not have shelter, in the scheme of the whole universe what is happening in the US Bond and securities is very small potato.

But the key things you have pointed out are that people should continue with their regular spending and should not get into debt are right on the button. The problem is too many Americans have been borrowing for their regular spending (much like the US government is doing). Just those people reducing their spending to affordable levels will throw the US economy into recession, if those that can afford it stop spending then you will have a depression. But all evidence points to this not happening so there is absolutely no need to panic. The key indicator will be if the government can cut spending and increase taxes enough to get back into the black, once they do recovery will be swift. Both Obama and McCain have indicated there will be tax increases, their difference is which income bracket will be hit the hardest.

Yep. With Obama we'll all be paying more taxes to fund more and more govenment programs to help people such as non tax payers. And the lower-middle/middle class will probably be hit hardest.