disneyaholic but they keep finding ways to take advantage

[Dean]

It's not just about me, it's about Disney changing the point requirements after the fact. How would everyone feel if Disney added a $50 booking fee for all reservations? If they can change the point requirements they can change all kinds of things.

Bill

They can change all kind of things and any buyer either knew or should have known this up front. The reallocation options are spelled out plus there are past examples. And while there is some issue of what was planned or not at BWV, the booking category for standard was added later, granted without an increase in points. BLT was changed after sales started but before it opened. THV is a little different, legal but different. It was added to an existing resort then the rest of the resort was used to raise the points there. It should have been a stand alone resort.

 

[Anal Annie]

They also made drastic changes to the point structure at Aulani for this year by changing the entire summer season to premier. Those poor Aulani owners who bought enough points to vacation in the summer all got screwed over unless they buy more points or can change when they vacation. I think DVC can and will pull every trick in the book to suit their needs without any input from owners. They do not care who gets the short end of the stick.

 

[Dean]

They also made drastic changes to the point structure at Aulani for this year by changing the entire summer season to premier. Those poor Aulani owners who bought enough points to vacation in the summer all got screwed over unless they buy more points or can change when they vacation. I think DVC can and will pull every trick in the book to suit their needs without any input from owners. They do not care who gets the short end of the stick.

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that every owner either knew or should have known changes could occur and that DVCMC has not only the right but I believe the fiduciary responsibly to even out demand. They don't gain anything unless one is a conspiracy theorist thinking they're trying to generate vaccines during times easier for them to rent and I'm not. When the first reallocation happened after 10 years with none, we saw posts from people saying they knew it could happen and it had happened in the past but they were still upset thinking it'd never happen again. I realize this is personal and emotional for some but it isn't for DVC (either way) and it should not be.

 

[CarolMN]

IMO, this reallocation isn't any different than the reallocation between weekend and weekday nights. There were some "winners" and some "losers". Impact to the membership overall was neutral.

 

[Anal Annie]

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that every owner either knew or should have known changes could occur and that DVCMC has not only the right but I believe the fiduciary responsibly to even out demand. They don't gain anything unless one is a conspiracy theorist thinking they're trying to generate vaccines during times easier for them to rent and I'm not. When the first reallocation happened after 10 years with none, we saw posts from people saying they knew it could happen and it had happened in the past but they were still upset thinking it'd never happen again. I realize this is personal and emotional for some but it isn't for DVC (either way) and it should not be.

I was just pointing out that this change at SSR wasn't the first one & that there are a lot of different types of reallocations & some of them are a lot more drastic than others. IMO this change at SSR is a little tremor while the one at Aulani was an earthquake. We own at SSR & prefer the Grandstand section so we're ok with it.

I do not think most people just buying in are really made aware of the potential of the types of changes & the frequency of which they occur - especially if they're buying resale - how could those people really know? If buying direct however the guides really should be pointing it out.

 

[Dean]

I was just pointing out that this change at SSR wasn't the first one & that there are a lot of different types of reallocations & some of them are a lot more drastic than others. IMO this change at SSR is a little tremor while the one at Aulani was an earthquake. We own at SSR & prefer the Grandstand section so we're ok with it.

I do not think most people just buying in are really made aware of the potential of the types of changes & the frequency of which they occur - especially if they're buying resale - how could those people really know? If buying direct however the guides really should be pointing it out.

I agree it's not a big deal, my response was to the idea that DVC is uncaring. My point is that they aren't but they really should be in this situation. They should care but it should NOT affect their decisions which should be objective for the management of the resort as a whole.

 

[Mokat76]

I agree it's not a big deal, my response was to the idea that DVC is uncaring. My point is that they aren't but they really should be in this situation. They should care but it should NOT affect their decisions which should be objective for the management of the resort as a whole.

My problem with this is Disney doesn't care one whit what we think about any of it as long as they can continue to get more and more people into the parks and other places on property. Loyalty is a one-way street with them. I shouldn't have to buy more points in anticipation that someday they'll decide they can jack up the rates because Downtown Disney is now suddenly cool. I was loyal to them when SSR was the "loser" resort, when it had no real draw for most people. I was not the owner who bought there and stayed elsewhere. I liked SSR. Now that they've finally done something to fix Downtown Disney, they extend the proverbial middle finger. I know this is just my personal rant and that company won't know, much less care. But I think I am allowed to be disappointed and angry.

 

[disneynutz]

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that every owner either knew or should have known changes could occur and that DVCMC has not only the right but I believe the fiduciary responsibly to even out demand. They don't gain anything unless one is a conspiracy theorist thinking they're trying to generate vaccines during times easier for them to rent and I'm not. When the first reallocation happened after 10 years with none, we saw posts from people saying they knew it could happen and it had happened in the past but they were still upset thinking it'd never happen again. I realize this is personal and emotional for some but it isn't for DVC (either way) and it should not be.

I still don't see that they have a responsibility to even out demand, why? Rooms will be filled no matter what they do. If they want to change things, create additional booking categories at all the resorts so when we book an area or view in a resort, we know what we are getting.

Bill

 

[Deb & Bill]

I kind of wondered why they didn't raise the number of points for Near Hospitality House at OKW. Then I counted the buildings: 8 in HHA, 41 in non-HHA. They would reduce the number of points by one in the non-HHA and have to raise the points by 5 in the HHA villa. I'm not sure they are allowed to raise a single villa 5 points. Especially when a studio only requires 10 points in Adv season for Sun-Thur.

As for SSR, I think I'd like Carousel because it would probably be the quietest. And we always have a car.

 

[Dean]

My problem with this is Disney doesn't care one whit what we think about any of it as long as they can continue to get more and more people into the parks and other places on property. Loyalty is a one-way street with them. I shouldn't have to buy more points in anticipation that someday they'll decide they can jack up the rates because Downtown Disney is now suddenly cool. I was loyal to them when SSR was the "loser" resort, when it had no real draw for most people. I was not the owner who bought there and stayed elsewhere. I liked SSR. Now that they've finally done something to fix Downtown Disney, they extend the proverbial middle finger. I know this is just my personal rant and that company won't know, much less care. But I think I am allowed to be disappointed and angry.

If I felt that way and was that cynical, I would not play in their sandbox. I believe DVD & DVC is trying to do the right thing along the way while satisfying the other requirements before them as well. Disney really has little to nothing to gain in this situation for a sold out resort. It is a reasonable change, I don't think any reasonable person can argue otherwise even if they disagree with the final decision. I believe the obvious answer is the correct one, that the demand was uneven and they've responded to that situation, just like it was for weekends/weekdays though I believe they went overboard a little with that change. And the Aulani change is reasonable as well though one could argue it should have been that way to start with.

I still don't see that they have a responsibility to even out demand, why? Rooms will be filled no matter what they do. If they want to change things, create additional booking categories at all the resorts so when we book an area or view in a resort, we know what we are getting.

Bill

I can see the opinion that they don't because ultimately everything will get used. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

 

[Dean]

I kind of wondered why they didn't raise the number of points for Near Hospitality House at OKW. Then I counted the buildings: 8 in HHA, 41 in non-HHA. They would reduce the number of points by one in the non-HHA and have to raise the points by 5 in the HHA villa. I'm not sure they are allowed to raise a single villa 5 points. Especially when a studio only requires 10 points in Adv season for Sun-Thur.

As for SSR, I think I'd like Carousel because it would probably be the quietest. And we always have a car.

That might change later, we simply don't have enough information to know the true demand in this situation, I'm guessing it's not that different for OKW between the booking categories. The other issue is the ease of working the numbers to satisfy the POS requirements.

 

[southerngirl528]

t's not just about me, it's about Disney changing the point requirements after the fact. How would everyone feel if Disney added a $50 booking fee for all reservations? If they can change the point requirements they can change all kinds of things.

I do not think most people just buying in are really made aware of the potential of the types of changes & the frequency of which they occur - especially if they're buying resale - how could those people really know? If buying direct however the guides really should be pointing it out.

When I bought in the early 90's it was clearly explained to me that the overall points total for any one DVC resort would stay the same forever. But it was also explained that if the points ever changed, and it is in our DVC contracts (EVERY members' contract docs) that they can reallocate but if they raise points in one place they must lower them in another. I totally get that reallocation can be upsetting but it is entirely legal and outlined in the contracts. I haven't examined the Aulani changes Anal Annie describes but if there was that drastic a change then some other seasons must have gone down in points a good deal to balance.

Supply/Demand is a reality with DVC and elsewhere. There have not been very many reallocations in 25 years. For those with kids still in school or others that are very restricted on when they can vacation, I can see where reallocations might be more upsetting. But for those of us that have a little flexibility on when we can vacation, we can simply choose a less expensive season. As frustrating as this may be for some, it is ultimately each of our responsibility to know what we are buying, whether from DVC or resale. Big purchases are best given plenty of time to study and question IMHO.

 

[Mokat76]

If I felt that way and was that cynical, I would not play in their sandbox.

Duly noted.

 

[Granny]

It's not just about me, it's about Disney changing the point requirements after the fact. How would everyone feel if Disney added a $50 booking fee for all reservations? If they can change the point requirements they can change all kinds of things.

Bill

Bill...I tend to generally agree with many of your posts and comments. But I don't see reallocation of points as a Disney extortion plan. Why did they raise points for CP and the Springs? Because demand outweighed supply. Since they have only been requests in the past, I'm sure that there were very many people disappointed in not being able to get their request filled. Now, with the separate booking category they will be able to assure their location requests for those areas and also have the option of point-stretching villas in the standard view areas. Personally, I think this is a good thing for most members.

For what it's worth, I can see additional reallocations from Disney in a couple of areas. If VWL II ends up creating a clear view of Bay Lake for half of the current VWL, then I could see them creating a Lake View and Standard View there with different point schedules.

And I also think at some point there may be a general reallocation to lower the point totals (possibly at the expense of studios) for 1BR since it appears (from booking availability) that many members don't feel the 1BR point differential is worth it compared to a studio. And that was before they made the studio able to sleep 5 in some resorts.

At the end of the day, as Dean points out, we can choose whether to play in their sandbox or not. For me, the dramatic ticket price increases are much more of a concern than point allocations.

 

[jerseyduke]

I understand the frustration, but do not see it as unethical, or extortion.

Stay one year in CP, next year stay in another area.

Why should people who do not care about proximity to the springs pay the same as people who do.

You could very easily take the point of view that those people have been getting the shaft for years, and this rights a previous wrong.

I always have a car with me, so if i were to stay at SS, I would not say at CP now. So that room can potentially be freed up for someone to whom that location is important.

Otherwise, I might have ended up in CP, and someone without a car, who wanted to talk to the springs, ended up far away.

 

[disneynutz]

If they (for why I still don't want to accept) change the point charts for higher demand rooms, why not worry about the rooms no one wants and lower those rooms even more. If people are unhappy because room are not available for booking, they should be even more unhappy because they keep changing point requirements after the sale.

IMO Disney has other reasons that benefits Disney and not the owners, we just don't know what those reasons are. Just because the say that member feed back dictated their actions, that doesn't really make it so. They could mail questionnaires with the dues bill or the magazine so the members really have a place for feed back.

Bill

 

[Dean]

If they (for why I still don't want to accept) change the point charts for higher demand rooms, why not worry about the rooms no one wants and lower those rooms even more. If people are unhappy because room are not available for booking, they should be even more unhappy because they keep changing point requirements after the sale.

IMO Disney has other reasons that benefits Disney and not the owners, we just don't know what those reasons are. Just because the say that member feed back dictated their actions, that doesn't really make it so. They could mail questionnaires with the dues bill or the magazine so the members really have a place for feed back.

Bill

And they may at some point. But what they aren't likely to do is micromanage individual rooms or anything similar though they may adjust rooms when it fits within the booking category structure such as moving rooms from one category to another as they have. For example, they're not going to single out the dumpster view at VLW but what they might do is create a separate category at VWL (?standard) and include that room. I haven't seen any reallocation that didn't seem to be a reasonable change at the time though I think the up front decision to add THV to SSR was questionable. The only one that comes to mind as to how it was done was BLT while in sales but before it opened but they gave everyone who'd bought an out if they wanted.