Disney World is BROKEN!

[Toad_Passenger]

Well, if your definition of a "magical" time in the parks is paying ever-higher ticket and food prices, waiting much longer in line for rides than previously (whether FP or standby), being severely limited as to how many times you can ride your favorite rides, trying to work with an app that often malfunctions, being treated like a third-class citizen if you stay off-site, . . . . . (I could go on but these are probably the highlights), then I guess our ideas of what "magical" means are VERY far apart. And you are more than welcome to partake of your version of "magical".

Respectfully snipped.

I have to say that, for some of us, the waits are still much shorter than what we used to experience when there was not even a legacy FP system in place.

Ah, the days of the mid-Summer swelter and waiting 2 hours for Space Mountain, because, well, that's what you did without any sort of FP system. Riding the same ride 3+ times was almost out of the question due to the standby lines. Of course these were the days when they used to use a library-style stamper to stamp your entry ticket.

I find the "magic" for me has changed over the decades I've been going to Disney. The thing is, while it's been a different experience, the "magic" is still there. From my first trip and seeing things for the first time, to my 21st Birthday and my first time drinking around the World, to my Honeymoon, to seeing my son and daughter experience WDW for their first time, there is magic to be found each and every time.

But, I get that everyone is different. If some choose to equate magic to their value/# of rides ridden, then I can see why they'd be upset. I just wish we could all realize that no one is "right" or "wrong" here.

But, in classic DIS fashion, we'll continue to argue.

 

[Brian Noble]

Has Disney never cared about making people happy, or is it a new thing exclusively related to FP+ that makes them not care?

This is a good question. Disney is in the business of selling happiness. That's not the same thing as "Disney wants me to be happy." Every time a change happens that impacts a non-trivial number of people, the people impacted are shocked (shocked, I tell you!) to find that Disney is really just a big money-hungry corporation looking out for profits.

The fact is, 't'was ever thus. But, now it's personal for some folks. And, when you've been thinking all along that "Disney wants me to be happy" it's a pretty big shock when you discover that, really, they just want your money in exchange for some happiness.

The calculus for Disney is: does this change help us make more money by selling happiness overall. The answer to that could well be yes even if some people are quite a bit less happy---to the point that those people don't even come back. That's ultimately the question about MM+. I suspect the answer to that question is yes, this will help Disney make more money on balance. The powers that be are not infallible, but they are right more often than they are wrong, and they do know quite a bit about running the most profitable theme parks on the planet.

 

[johde]

I don't understand.

Has Disney never cared about making people happy, or is it a new thing exclusively related to FP+ that makes them not care?

I don't think they would be anywhere as successful as they are if they hadn't put peoples happiness at the forefront of their business.

They are raking in money, "LOTS OF IT", by not caring about their customers happiness? To me that doesn't even make sense.

Yes, we all know they are a business, but I'd submit they are in the business of making people happy.

On one hand you claim that Disney is all dollars and cents and doesn't give a whit about their customers, on the other hand you say they are wildly successful with Disney-obsessed customers. You may be under the mistaken impression that those 2 things go hand in hand, they don't.

As a finance teacher, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago. The goal of every company is to maximize shareholder wealth. That is true if it's Disney, Walmart, General Motors, Verizon or whom ever. Disney's strategy for maximizing shareholder wealth has been selling of "magic" and happiness. Through it's movies and theme parks taking you away from the everyday. Walmart's strategy for maximizing shareholder wealth is the perception of low prices.

Walmart is not going to lower prices to a level that causes them to lose profits. They will make sure the numbers work out either through increases in expected volume in decreases in their costs.

Likewise, Disney is not going to build 15 new E ticket rides at WDW in the next 10 years just to make WDW fans happy. They are going to do thing that allow them to continue to increase shareholder wealth while continuing to sell "magic" to the masses.

 

[manning]

Right back at ya'. This statement works both ways. When someone says, "I no longer enjoy going to Disney", the counter argument of, "Well, I think Disney is the greatest place on earth", isn't doing any good. Someone who is done with it doesn't care how you feel. You shouldn't care how they feel. Its all pointless.

I'm in the FP+ Haters Club, but honestly these conversations are 15 pages of useless banter. It's like trying to argue politics and religion. No one is ever going to change their mind, people are just wasting their breath.

Perhaps this should be put into the banned category.

 

[shalom]

I'm sad that people don't feel the magic anymore but at the same time I'm confused because for me everything about the parks is magical.

There is a sense where Disney doesn't have to be as magical as it was in days gone by; it just has to be more magical than its current competition.

Which is not to argue that Disney has gotten less magical. Just an observation that Disney is still magical compared to the competition.

And, when you've been thinking all along that "Disney wants me to be happy" it's a pretty big shock when you discover that, really, they just want your money in exchange for some happiness.

Yes, to all of Brian's post, but I also think the sense of betrayal here is palpable. To me, the idea that a business will change things in a way one customer hates in order to please ten more is a truism on par with "wild tigers may bite you." A good corporation will serve its customers well, and to make reasonable efforts to keep them happy, but no corporation is going to worry about what any individual customer wants when planning strategy.

Disney wants to please as many as possible, and it's pretty easy to see why limiting FPs so more individuals can use them will probably do that. And to be honest, every time I go to register for the Vacation-a-Day-Giveaway, and see the deliberately dorky tween and teen dancing with Goofy (who are not even part of the video ), I can't help but think, "Disney is actively trying to chase ride mavens away!"

 

[TitanBrett]

There is no doubt that the crowds are bigger. Disney is reporting record park attendance so that fact cant be denied. Ones individual experience is the variable.

We moved down here 12 years ago and for us the parks aren't as enjoyable as they used to be. Even traditional off months are now crowded, often with the growing middle class of South America. That was a demographic that just didn't exist 15-20 years ago, now they have money and just like everyone else wants to spend it at Disney

Times change, you take the good with the bad.

 

[Love Tink]

But, I get that everyone is different. If some choose to equate magic to their value/# of rides ridden, then I can see why they'd be upset.

But, see, you say you see and respect that everyone is different. Then you make a comment like the one above. Are you trying to be dismissive and condescending, or do you actually not get it? I'm honestly curious.

Yes, those of us upset about FP+ are upset that it will curtail the number and kind of rides we can ride, and make for more time in lines. But it isn't because we are mindless, joyless drones who can't see the "true magic of Disney" and just want to race, heads down, from headliner to headliner.

It's because to us the magic of Disney was that it was a place that was completely designed to make people happy, however they wanted to experience it - a place where everything you did and every employee you met seemed totally devoted to making your day wonderful. It was THAT experience that made Disneyland and all the parks that followed seem magical, and made visitors feel like kids again.

And this new system feels like a contradiction of that mission because it is so blatantly designed to maximize profits and drive everything to the middle. Nothing about this was designed to improve my experience, or make me feel spoiled and happy and surrounded by Disney magic. It was designed, the executives admit, for reasons that have nothing to do with my experience. In fact, not only did they not improve my experience, they replaced a perfectly working system and made my experience worse.

This feels like a slap in the face even to some of the truly devoted. We trusted this company, with loyalty over many years, to make us happy. We gave them thousands of dollars and watched the company thrive under the business model of the World's Greatest Customer Experience. And now they've let us down and they've been brazen about it. The magic that is gone is not another ride on RRC. The magic that is gone is our belief that Disney World was a place where the number one priority was making people happy, with the idea that profits spilled from that.

 

[mom2rtk]

But, see, you say you see and respect that everyone is different. Then you make a comment like the one above. Are you trying to be dismissive and condescending, or do you actually not get it? I'm honestly curious.

Yes, those of us upset about FP+ are upset that it will curtail the number and kind of rides we can ride, and make for more time in lines. But it isn't because we are mindless, joyless drones who can't see the "true magic of Disney" and just want to race, heads down, from headliner to headliner.

It's because to us the magic of Disney was that it was a place that was completely designed to make people happy, however they wanted to experience it - a place where everything you did and every employee you met seemed totally devoted to making your day wonderful. It was THAT experience that made Disneyland and all the parks that followed seem magical, and made visitors feel like kids again.

And this new system feels like a contradiction of that mission because it is so blatantly designed to maximize profits and drive everything to the middle. Nothing about this was designed to improve my experience, or make me feel spoiled and happy and surrounded by Disney magic. It was designed, the executives admit, for reasons that have nothing to do with my experience. In fact, not only did they not improve my experience, they replaced a perfectly working system and made my experience worse.

This feels like a slap in the face even to some of the truly devoted. We trusted this company, with loyalty over many years, to make us happy. We gave them thousands of dollars and watched the company thrive under the business model of the World's Greatest Customer Experience. And now they've let us down and they've been brazen about it. The magic that is gone is not another ride on RRC. The magic that is gone is our belief that Disney World was a place where the number one priority was making people happy, with the idea that profits spilled from that.

I said it before but it bears repeating. Best post ever was where someone said Disney is replacing "Magic Your Way" with "Magic Our Way". It really conveys the shift in what is taking place.

Whoever first posted that..... remind me who you are so I can start crediting you.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

.

This feels like a slap in the face even to some of the truly devoted. We trusted this company, with loyalty over many years, to make us happy. We gave them thousands of dollars and watched the company thrive under the business model of the World's Greatest Customer Experience. And now they've let us down and they've been brazen about it. The magic that is gone is not another ride on RRC. The magic that is gone is our belief that Disney World was a place where the number one priority was making people happy, with the idea that profits spilled from that.

You take Disney too seriously. Honestly, the vast majority of people coming back have said they are still happy. If you can't find a way to have a great time at Disney World, maybe it's you that's changed, too.

 

[Brian Noble]

I also think the sense of betrayal here is palpable. To me, the idea that a business will change things in a way one customer hates in order to please ten more is a truism on par with "wild tigers may bite you." A good corporation will serve its customers well, and to make reasonable efforts to keep them happy, but no corporation is going to worry about what any individual customer wants when planning strategy.

I suspect we may be over-estimating the number of people who are really so upset. Even on DIS, there are a fair number of people who like (or even just don't mind) the New World Order, and DISers are *way* more likely to be Fastpass hackers than the average guest. What's more, DISers are a small slice of overall theme park attendance.

We are the fanatics---the people who make Disney parks a hobby. Nearly by definition, we are not at all representative of the people who treat a Disney trip as "just a vacation." However, we live in a universe (DISboards, EasyWDW, etc. etc.) where we are surrounded by other people who are right there with us, mainlining pixie dust like it was weak coffee. And, even in this reasonably small echo-chamber, there are an even smaller number of people who are trumpeting the FP+ Is Evil Horn as if they were the Seven Trumpeters from Revelations. If that's what you see, it's hard to imagine that this isn't the universal shared opinion by the entire 48M+ admissions to WDW parks each year. It turns out that there is some good psychiatry/sociology behind these sorts of biases, but that doesn't make them any easier to avoid!

 

[HopperFan]

But why do you get to tell me if an experience is any more or less "magical" for me?

Agree. What is good for someone is not good for another. No one should be telling another that their perspective on their vacation is wrong.

Vacation time is priceless and vacation costs can be expensive. Some families can vacation a couple times a year, some once a year and some only once every few years.....some never. Everyone needs to decide where they feel the costs of the vacation brings them the value they want. We all have different expectations for our precious vacation time.

Example - Beach vacation: My sister will rent an expensive condo, sit on the beach for 10 hours baking, eat dinner, go to bed and start over the next day. No way I can do that. I want a nice condo, spend 5-6 hours on the beach, head out to evening entertainment, come back relax, then go to bed. We have done the beach together at the same time - and we won't do it again because even though we had the same destination, we had completely different expectations for our trip and placed different values on our vacation time.

Disney World is first and foremost a vacation/entertainment business. Their stockholders expect profits. Since the day it has opened there has been constant change with park operations, tickets, dining plans, resort prices and even transportation. Change will always happen. Yes, MyMagic+ is huge. It's lots of changes at once and lots of changes that some guests are not happy with. I believe that there is a long term plan and part of it is to redefine their customer base.

Everyone has to decide if the changes to Disney World are going to bring value to your vacation dollar and time. For those who feel this will not change their experience value, plan on taking the changes into account when you do. For those who feel the new FP+ system and the wearing of MagicBands are reducing the value of your vacation and not something you are happy with, then begin looking for other destinations to spend your dollars. Everyone should be happy at the end of their vacation, and if you aren't then it wasn't a vacation.

 

[btk2333]

And you are more than welcome to partake of your version of "magical".

Thanks I will! I hope you find other vacation destinations that are more magical to you!

 

[Donut23]

Thanks I will! I hope you find other vacation destinations that are more magical to you!

Should not be a problem.

There is a great big travel World out there with staff who treat you like Disney used to. With fabulous resorts or lodges in New England, National Parks, tropical paradises and the Old South. Not reproductions but the real thing.....well maintained and staffed.

Your choices are unlimited and it's a funny thing....if you cannot travel better for less, you need a travel planner.

We have cut down to one Disney trip a year, to DL. Airfare more and CASTMEMBER rates. What we have discovered is, the balance if DH's 8 weeks vacation we are staying in very nice accommodations but we are spending less overall.

Happy travels everyone!

 

[schrammalot]

We went in October and it was just as magical as the other stays.

Don't forget, the ones who "hate" it are often the loudest.

 

[shalom]

I suspect we may be over-estimating the number of people who are really so upset.

Yeah, I don't think it's anything like unanimous upset at the Dis and the other two Disney boards I (sort of) frequent are pretty mellow right now. But when you're talking the number of people who go to Disney, a small percentage can still be a pretty big number of people!

 

[btk2333]

Should not be a problem.

There is a great big travel World out there with staff who treat you like Disney used to. With fabulous resorts or lodges in New England, National Parks, tropical paradises and the Old South. Not reproductions but the real thing.....well maintained and staffed.

Your choices are unlimited and it's a funny thing....if you cannot travel better for less, you need a travel planner.

We have cut down to one Disney trip a year, to DL. Airfare more and CASTMEMBER rates. What we have discovered is, the balance if DH's 8 weeks vacation we are staying in very nice accommodations but we are spending less overall.

Happy travels everyone!

I agree- it is a great world to travel. I had a great three week trip to South Korea and China this summer.

"better" is subjective- and you have no idea how much anyone here spends on their WDW vacations. For example, we priced a weekend in Chicago vs. a weekend at WDW for this weekend. Because of giftcards (presents from Christmas), APs (granted we paid for them earlier this year; however, for this trip they're paid for), United miles, and AP discounts, it was cheaper to fly to Orlando and stay on property than stay downtown Chicago for four nights for a babymoon.

I have friends who are castmembers and we get castmember rates frequently. We have friends who are DVC members and we frequently use their points for reservations as well. These things all cut down on expenses.

It's great that you think you know everyone's situation and what everyone should value on vacation- but the truth is you don't.

 

[glamdring269]

We went in October and it was just as magical as the other stays.

Don't forget, the ones who "hate" it are often the loudest.

Look, I'm not all doom and gloom on the FP+ front but let's be honest here...

I was there in October as well. We still had paper FP available to us then. And some (us included) also had FP+ so it was a best of both worlds experience. Add in some food & wine fun, being surprised that Sugar Ray was playing and yes... Best trip ever!

But it's different now. FP+ only and no paper FP available. So completely apples to oranges comparison.

 

[clsteve]

This is a good question. Disney is in the business of selling happiness. That's not the same thing as "Disney wants me to be happy." Every time a change happens that impacts a non-trivial number of people, the people impacted are shocked (shocked, I tell you!) to find that Disney is really just a big money-hungry corporation looking out for profits.

The fact is, 't'was ever thus. But, now it's personal for some folks. And, when you've been thinking all along that "Disney wants me to be happy" it's a pretty big shock when you discover that, really, they just want your money in exchange for some happiness.

The calculus for Disney is: does this change help us make more money by selling happiness overall. The answer to that could well be yes even if some people are quite a bit less happy---to the point that those people don't even come back. That's ultimately the question about MM+. I suspect the answer to that question is yes, this will help Disney make more money on balance. The powers that be are not infallible, but they are right more often than they are wrong, and they do know quite a bit about running the most profitable theme parks on the planet.

Excellent point. I think that one thing MM+/FP+ has done (for the first time for many) is give a glimpse at the "man behind the curtain", so to speak. And, it's an uncomfortable view for many to see the raw corporate side of the company known for selling magic and pixie dust.

Earnings Reports, Analyst comments, MiceChat Articles, etc., have reached a much higher state of visibility - where it can be hard for many to reconcile "the Walt's Disney" with the "Rasulo Corporate Disney" of - "MM+ is designed to get an extra 10-11% more money out of you."

No matter which side of the FP+ argument you are on, I guarantee Disney did not foresee and would rather not have this level of (self-inflicted) public scrutiny on this.

They (and I think, most of us) would much rather have the conversations back on the merits of the DP, debating AvatarLand, waiting for reports on the Dwarf Train, etc. - and not talking about FP+ limitations, MB's not letting people in rooms and campsite bathrooms, or whether the App works in the Park. It's caught them a bit off-guard and unprepared...

 

[schrammalot]

Look, I'm not all doom and gloom on the FP+ front but let's be honest here...

I was there in October as well. We still had paper FP available to us then. And some (us included) also had FP+ so it was a best of both worlds experience. Add in some food & wine fun, being surprised that Sugar Ray was playing and yes... Best trip ever!

But it's different now. FP+ only and no paper FP available. So completely apples to oranges comparison.

We didn't use the paper FPs. Didn't need them.

 

[rastuso]

We didn't use the paper FPs. Didn't need them.

Which means you are happy with 3 rides a day without standing in long lines. Surely you realize that many folks would be very unhappy with that number.

The other option is that you were there when FP wasn't needed at all, so any discussion about the awesomeness/suckiness of FP in your opinion, based on that visit, are exceedingly meaningless.

Jason