Disney World Genie+ No longer sold pre-arrival, subject to availability

[Liquidice]

Don't disagree on the "revenge travel" and Disney is already doing / has done promotions for later in the year on their resorts to keep the good times rolling . Separately, I would argue adding GoTG in a week and Tron (sometime later ...hopefully .... soon), Moana's World of Water (I assume in months) are new.

Agreed, These aren't new gates or massive expansions, but I think they qualify as something. This is also what we know about now, but they are detractors to the current experience (another source of complaints i.e. "WallCot"). So from Disney's perspective, they need to balance these things out as well.

The problem with Disney's new rides and attractions is they don't help with the supply / overcrowding. Everything new is basically replacing an old ride or attraction.

Consider that roughly every 10 years WDW added a new park in its first 30 years, but we haven't gotten a new park since 1998.

Raising prices is not the only way to help with demand, another way to handle demand is to increase supply and spread out crowds more.

That is what Universal is doing with building Epic Universe instead of coming up with more complex systems like Genie+ -- at some point, people might choose Universal just because it is more simple to go there, no park passes, no Genie+ complication (sure they have Express Pass, but once you buy it, you just hop on the fast line).

 

[john7994]

The problem with Disney's new rides and attractions is they don't help with the supply / overcrowding. Everything new is basically replacing an old ride or attraction.

I actually went to the trouble of specifically saying the new attractions opening were not a full gate or massive expansion - (what is Tron replacing?)

Consider that roughly every 10 years WDW added a new park in its first 30 years, but we haven't gotten a new park since 1998.

Disney hasn't exactly been standing still outside of Orlando either (California Adventure (and fixing that debacle over 10 years and $1.5B later), Hong Kong, and Shanghai). Bought Media IP/Assets and Built on It. Not to mention adding a ton of Hotel Rooms and DVC Inventory - sure this didn't help crowding - but if they didn't build the properties - many others would have been more than happy to take that money outside of the bubble.

That is what Universal is doing with building Epic Universe instead of coming up with more complex systems like Genie+ -- at some point, people might choose Universal just because it is more simple to go there, no park passes, no Genie+ complication (sure they have Express Pass, but once you buy it, you just hop on the fast line).

But since you brought it up in relation to my post, by the look of things now with staffing, I am somewhat dubious the current labor market in Orlando could support two new gates - even if Disney were inclined to respond to Universal. Its interesting to track unemployment cycles in the area in relation to past park opens, Regardless, maybe population growth keeps up to demand for labor because its a hot mess right now.

 

[Liquidice]

I actually went to the trouble of specifically saying the new attractions opening were not a full gate or massive expansion - (what is Tron replacing?)

Disney hasn't exactly been standing still outside of Orlando either (California Adventure (and fixing that debacle over 10 years and $1.5B later), Hong Kong, and Shanghai). Bought Media IP/Assets and Built on It. Not to mention adding a ton of Hotel Rooms and DVC Inventory - sure this didn't help crowding - but if they didn't build the properties - many others would have been more than happy to take that money outside of the bubble.

But since you brought it up in relation to my post, by the look of things now with staffing, I am somewhat dubious the current labor market in Orlando could support two new gates - even if Disney were inclined to respond to Universal. Its interesting to track unemployment cycles in the area in relation to past park opens, Regardless, maybe population growth keeps up to demand for labor because its a hot mess right now.

Sorry you're right you said not a full gate or massive expansion - was just trying to make the point that while it is something, it hasn't really helped deal with crowds in a meaningful way.

And you're right for WDW, Tron might be the one exception where it didn't replace anything. DCA certainly helped in Disneyland - I'm not really sure Hong Kong and Shanghai Disney have really helped with crowding in the US parks. HK Disneyland has never turned a profit and is rarely crowded so you could almost say at least for HK Disney that it was a mistake on Disney's part almost the same way that Disneyland Paris seemed to be a mistake at first but I think Paris has turned a corner - so maybe HK Disneyland will eventually do that as well. But you could say Disney had originally anticipated the new parks worldwide would help reduce crowding in the US based parks - Who knows though maybe they have something planned? Would be a great announcement for the 100th anniversary of the Walt Disney Company, one can hope

As far as a 5th gate at WDW - I do tend to think a 3rd park somewhere else in the USA would make more sense than a 5th gate - but I'm sure if Disney were to pursue one of the 2 options they would be able to get a lot of data to support one or the other. Certainly they have enough land to do a 5th gate at WDW.

 

[john7994]

Sorry you're right you said not a full gate or massive expansion - was just trying to make the point that while it is something, it hasn't really helped deal with crowds in a meaningful way.

And you're right for WDW, Tron might be the one exception where it didn't replace anything. DCA certainly helped in Disneyland - I'm not really sure Hong Kong and Shanghai Disney have really helped with crowding in the US parks. HK Disneyland has never turned a profit and is rarely crowded so you could almost say at least for HK Disney that it was a mistake on Disney's part almost the same way that Disneyland Paris seemed to be a mistake at first but I think Paris has turned a corner - so maybe HK Disneyland will eventually do that as well. But you could say Disney had originally anticipated the new parks worldwide would help reduce crowding in the US based parks - Who knows though maybe they have something planned? Would be a great announcement for the 100th anniversary of the Walt Disney Company, one can hope

As far as a 5th gate at WDW - I do tend to think a 3rd park somewhere else in the USA would make more sense than a 5th gate - but I'm sure if Disney were to pursue one of the 2 options they would be able to get a lot of data to support one or the other. Certainly they have enough land to do a 5th gate at WDW

Emotionally, I would love for Disney to get it together in Orlando and even a 5th Gate if they could pull it off.
Ideally, I think they could go after some tangible expansions in the existing parks (HS / AK) to spread crowds out more with maybe a longer term strategy for a 5th gate that makes sense to the area. Starting a park in a whole new area of the U.S. could be exciting, risky, and capitally intensive with no existing infrastructure, hotels, or supply chain to build off of.

 

[Gr8scott]

The problem with Disney's new rides and attractions is they don't help with the supply / overcrowding. Everything new is basically replacing an old ride or attraction.

Consider that roughly every 10 years WDW added a new park in its first 30 years, but we haven't gotten a new park since 1998.

Raising prices is not the only way to help with demand, another way to handle demand is to increase supply and spread out crowds more.

That is what Universal is doing with building Epic Universe instead of coming up with more complex systems like Genie+ -- at some point, people might choose Universal just because it is more simple to go there, no park passes, no Genie+ complication (sure they have Express Pass, but once you buy it, you just hop on the fast line).

Agreed. It seems that Disney has been more focused on demand, and don’t expect it to go away soon. With the expansions in hotels, especially DVC, I would expect the crowds to be a problem for a long time. It’s ironic that Disney is trying to alleviate this by restricting access to very thing that the lodging is intended for by means of park reservations, park hopping only after 2:00 PM, no new annual passes, and now expected capping of sales on Genie+.

If they are not going to address supply like Universal is by expanding the parks as opposed to re-purposing existing real estate that results in even more demand, expect the prices to go up.

 

[greeneyedchick]

Disney World is way too expensive - WAY too expensive. The idea that it might be even more difficult and more expensive to get on rides going forward is a huge turn off. Why did I just drop thousands of dollars on tickets then…was that not good enough? and thousands on a Disney resort…and thousands on Disney food? I have to consider the ROI on our end, too. And I feel like this is getting out of control. I would cancel our upcoming 2023 trip if I didn’t already have a non refundable voucher for a dvc rental …but even then, my husband is urging me to just throw the voucher/$ away and forget about it so that we don’t have to drop any more money (the thousands and thousands and thousands more that Disney World requires). This is going to be our last trip if we do go. But I’m starting to want to just walk away from our voucher too… I can’t justify it anymore. It’s becoming too stressful in combo with too expensive. Not worth it anymore.

Like a lot of people here who have been saying something similar - I didn’t mind spending the money before because I knew we were taken care of at Disney World - from the magical express, to fast pass where we could for sure grab the handful of rides everyone wanted ahead of time, etc - it was all the little things that just made everything seem more like a seamless and positive experience. I just can’t believe that we’re all supposed to now be on our phones on the day of our vacation at 7am (when it is supposed to be a vacation) fighting each other like wild animals to get something - and for the rest of us who don’t? How do we walk away from that expensive trip feeling good about that? Not to mention - this is always an IT disaster!!!! When you have that # of people trying to do the same thing, it’s just going to crash.

I don’t know - maybe if fast pass had never existed, it be easier to look at the Regular line ups with a different lens…but I can’t now. I liked Fast Pass. It worked for us. It was part of the vacation planning - which is where this sort of thing needed to live.

Can someone please tell me what was wrong with Fast Pass that they needed to get rid of it and replace it with this horrible sounding system?? We went to DW in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 and we never had a problem with it and it seemed to be working ok??

The old fastpass system was great for those staying on property. I have never been able to afford to stay on property. We unfortunately went the week that they switched to fastpass+. We were staying off property and not concerned since I had worked at Disney for years and knew all of the touring plan strategies. We were going with another family that was staying on property (how I regret not insisting that we pay to stay on property. We would've have saved on the rental car, but I didn't know anything about magical express-but I digresss). It was a disaster of a vacation for us! The other family had rides pre-booked. We couldn't get the rides, nor the same times as them. We only rode 2 rides together in 1 week. The lines were longer. It screwed up the touring plans. We didn't go back until years later when we moved to Orlando and got annual passes. We could never get headliners as AP holders because they were all taken before the 30 day mark. It wasn't until about 9 months in that I learned about the whole refreshing constantly thing to see if we could snag something better. But for the average person who wasn't staying on property, he or she has been experiencing the park the way that people are now fearing that they will have to do too. You spend all of that money and you don't know if you'll get to go on the ride you want or not or whether you'll get on 3 rides in a day or 10. It's literally quite the gamble! Personally, I think they should do away with all of it like they did during covid. That way, all paying customers have an equal chance of getting to ride the headliners.

 

[greeneyedchick]

Sorry you're right you said not a full gate or massive expansion - was just trying to make the point that while it is something, it hasn't really helped deal with crowds in a meaningful way.

And you're right for WDW, Tron might be the one exception where it didn't replace anything. DCA certainly helped in Disneyland - I'm not really sure Hong Kong and Shanghai Disney have really helped with crowding in the US parks. HK Disneyland has never turned a profit and is rarely crowded so you could almost say at least for HK Disney that it was a mistake on Disney's part almost the same way that Disneyland Paris seemed to be a mistake at first but I think Paris has turned a corner - so maybe HK Disneyland will eventually do that as well. But you could say Disney had originally anticipated the new parks worldwide would help reduce crowding in the US based parks - Who knows though maybe they have something planned? Would be a great announcement for the 100th anniversary of the Walt Disney Company, one can hope

As far as a 5th gate at WDW - I do tend to think a 3rd park somewhere else in the USA would make more sense than a 5th gate - but I'm sure if Disney were to pursue one of the 2 options they would be able to get a lot of data to support one or the other. Certainly they have enough land to do a 5th gate at WDW.

They could have made the Star Wars land at Hollywood Studios meaningful if that had built it for the estimated capacity. Same with Toy Story. They squeezed it into a small area and then built a tiny cantina (how about a 3 story cantina) and then rides that don't have a high capacity flow to them. Think of how many people could ride The Great Movie Ride at one time and how many can ride Mickey's Runaway Railroad. They are making the problem worse when they build these rides that can't meet known demand.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

Oh...so i can't just use the My Disney Experience and modify reservation? We got the Disney+ deal so don't want to lose that.

I have the Disney plus deal and I upgraded my tickets to add genie plus on my mde on my laptop, not the app. Upgraded tickets, no impact to discount on room.

 

[lcmckenzie2022]

The old fastpass system was great for those staying on property. I have never been able to afford to stay on property. We unfortunately went the week that they switched to fastpass+. We were staying off property and not concerned since I had worked at Disney for years and knew all of the touring plan strategies. We were going with another family that was staying on property (how I regret not insisting that we pay to stay on property. We would've have saved on the rental car, but I didn't know anything about magical express-but I digresss). It was a disaster of a vacation for us! The other family had rides pre-booked. We couldn't get the rides, nor the same times as them. We only rode 2 rides together in 1 week. The lines were longer. It screwed up the touring plans. We didn't go back until years later when we moved to Orlando and got annual passes. We could never get headliners as AP holders because they were all taken before the 30 day mark. It wasn't until about 9 months in that I learned about the whole refreshing constantly thing to see if we could snag something better. But for the average person who wasn't staying on property, he or she has been experiencing the park the way that people are now fearing that they will have to do too. You spend all of that money and you don't know if you'll get to go on the ride you want or not or whether you'll get on 3 rides in a day or 10. It's literally quite the gamble! Personally, I think they should do away with all of it like they did during covid. That way, all paying customers have an equal chance of getting to ride the headliners.

That's so true and a great perspective.

 

[Pyxie]

Does this change affect Disneyland too or just WDW?

 

[Jrb1979]

Does this change affect Disneyland too or just WDW?

I think just WDW. Disneyland isn't suffering from the same issue in regards to the amount of people buying it.

 

[Misha72683]

I had booked Genie+ for every day of our trip and was second-guessing myself, bit this news means I will keep it.

Planning this trip has given me a new perspective. Normally I try to balance fun and affordable with my vacations. We do Great Wolf Lodge every year, do other amusement parks every summer, etc. The first time I did Disney, I approached it that way and did it as affordably as possible.

I defintiely had some sticker shock this time and I do feel like it is impossible to be as.frugal as I was in 2015. But this time I going with my mom and she is paying for most of it and she has a totally different perspective than me. She sees this as a once in a lifetime vacation, a gift she very much wants to give to her grandchildren and she looks at the costs accordingly.

 

[Jrb1979]

Here is a quote from Disneyglimpses at Wdwmagic on the issues with Genie+ and why it's not working.

"The product was designed for guests to open the app in the morning, reserve a ride, close it, ride that ride and rinse and repeat throughout the day. It was not designed to allow guests to schedule their entire itinerary of rides as you did with FP+. They don't want guests on their phone all day mixing and matching reservations. And that's exactly what has happened. Reducing the number of people using it solves all of that.

And to be honest, almost all of the issues you face are due to too many people using it. For example, you want the ability to reserve rides around dining reservations. If less people used it, you wouldn't have to even think about this. Just open the app during your dinner and book something for when it finishes. That's how it was supposed to work until everyone and their cousin bought it."

 

[SealedSeven]

Here is a quote from Disneyglimpses at Wdwmagic on the issues with Genie+ and why it's not working.

"The product was designed for guests to open the app in the morning, reserve a ride, close it, ride that ride and rinse and repeat throughout the day. It was not designed to allow guests to schedule their entire itinerary of rides as you did with FP+. They don't want guests on their phone all day mixing and matching reservations. And that's exactly what has happened. Reducing the number of people using it solves all of that.

And to be honest, almost all of the issues you face are due to too many people using it. For example, you want the ability to reserve rides around dining reservations. If less people used it, you wouldn't have to even think about this. Just open the app during your dinner and book something for when it finishes. That's how it was supposed to work until everyone and their cousin bought it."

It was more towards giving all guests a fair shot to ride rides, as the people that aren't tech savvy / researched enough for Fastpass + (or didn't stay onsite) were out of luck to ride lot of the rides without spending hours waiting.

I think it's working as intended, that anyone can pick it up and learn how to use it and get passes for rides (and also making money from it).

 

[Smugpugmug]

It was more towards giving all guests a fair shot to ride rides, as the people that aren't tech savvy / researched enough for Fastpass + (or didn't stay onsite) were out of luck to ride lot of the rides without spending hours waiting.

I think it's working as intended, that anyone can pick it up and learn how to use it and get passes for rides (and also making money from it).

But Genie+ still needs a considerable amount of research to really take advantage of too. I'm on a Disney Facebook group and there are dozens of posts every day of people asking how Genie+ works because they're confused and don't understand the 120 minute rule or what stacking is. Disney didn't fix anything in regards to not needing knowledge in order to use their skip the line service.

 

[Jrb1979]

But Genie+ still needs a considerable amount of research to really take advantage of too. I'm on a Disney Facebook group and there are dozens of posts every day of people asking how Genie+ works because they're confused and don't understand the 120 minute rule or what stacking is. Disney didn't fix anything in regards to not needing knowledge in order to use their skip the line service.

Going by my post it was never meant to have people stack. It was meant as a go with the flor system. As I posted with the amount of people buying it, its not working like it should.

 

[SealedSeven]

But Genie+ still needs a considerable amount of research to really take advantage of too. I'm on a Disney Facebook group and there are dozens of posts every day of people asking how Genie+ works because they're confused and don't understand the 120 minute rule or what stacking is. Disney didn't fix anything in regards to not needing knowledge in order to use their skip the line service.

They can learn after first day and be able to attempt to get lightning passes for good rides, where fastpass + by the time they learn about it, it's too late

 

[RamblingMad]

Bring back the paper fastpasses.

This feels like Disney is trying to maximize caffeine consumption on the day of arrival to the parks. Now, I see why they let Starbucks into the parks.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Going by my post it was never meant to have people stack. It was meant as a go with the flor system. As I posted with the amount of people buying it, its not working like it should.

I don't disagree. I did the stacking method at Hollywood Studios and with the current state of Genie+ I'm not sure how I would've been able to use Genie+ at that park without it due to rides very quickly selling out and being pushed to evening times.

They can learn after first day and be able to attempt to get lightning passes for good rides, where fastpass + by the time they learn about it, it's too late

Sure they can but not everyone will learn. Systems with Genie+ and Fastpass+ thrive on having a percentage of users not using it and/or not understanding how to use them. The Youtube channel Defunctland did a fantastic video explaining this if you're interested in hearing more.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't disagree. I did the stacking method at Hollywood Studios and with the current state of Genie+ I'm not sure how I would've been able to use Genie+ at that park without it due to rides very quickly selling out and being pushed to evening times.


Sure they can but not everyone will learn. Systems with Genie+ and Fastpass+ thrive on having a percentage of users not using it and/or not understanding how to use them. The Youtube channel Defunctland did a fantastic video explaining this if you're interested in hearing more.

Having to stack is happening cause too many people are buying it each day. One number I have been hearing is they need to cap it at 20% of guests per day.