Disney workers may face choice: Accept contract — or strike

[Oglet]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-daily-disney/os-disney-unions-20101229,0,5856998.story

 

[OKW Lover]

I've read the story and am of two minds. One is that I think Disney cast members are underpaid. The other is that I don't want the cost of my vacation to go up.

Fortunately I don't have to decide - its the individual cast member that has to decide if they are underpaid. And if a strike will result in a net gain (after considering the lost wages) over the course of the contract.

 

[OKW Lover]

Also wanted to add that I don't know what percent of cast members are actually union employees either. I believe that Florida is a right to work state so any strike wouldn't necessarily (and likely wouldn't) impact the guest experience.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They'll fold...they always do....

even when there is isn't rampant unemployment and the job market in florida is less putrid (which it normally is) than normal.

a strike there would be a true statement of the times and exactly what's going on in this country...

and i don't really like strikes that much...but the government has just systematically transfered wealth to those who don't need it (the ones that already had too much of it) over the last few years....and that is the truth of it....so i wouldn't mind a little organization of the proliteriat...

and just so it's not as political as it sounds: i'm a blue guy...and yet i still see how badly things have been handled

but the union will fold...and based on orlando's flimsy state...i wouldn't give them any grief about it....
...this time

 

[twooley2]

I am a bit confused as to how they are underpaid. I recently took a trip with 12 family members and every meal was of the required 18 percent tip. This was done for each of our parties which equated to 60-80 dollars in tips for one hour of work at one buffet restaurant for one waiter. The service was bad too.

 

[11290]

but the government has just systematically transfered wealth to those who don't need it (the ones that already had too much of it) over the last few years

Just who among us, government or individual, has the right to determine who doesn't need it or that someone already has too much of it. The short answer, NO ONE.

Neither you, I or the government has any right to say that I or anyone else has too much money or doesn't need it. This is SUPPOSED TO BE a free society.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just who among us, government or individual, has the right to determine who doesn't need it or that someone already has too much of it. The short answer, NO ONE.

Neither you, I or the government has any right to say that I or anyone else has too much money or doesn't need it. This is SUPPOSED TO BE a free society.

you trust that the "free market" is the only way to go because it has been drilled into your head since birth...

and don't think "captialism" is the same as "democracy". One is a political concept and the other is an economic one. Democracy should be defended at all costs...capitalism has as many evils as anything else you can compare it too.

it might be...but there are deficiencies and inconsistencies to that that could be tweaked to reduce the negatives in our society and make it better on the whole...that can't be disputed.

but what has gone on in washington is that they have cut deals to give more power and money to those that already have it and don't need it.

we are being told that saying "enough is enough" is unpatriotic. but it isn't...it's really our next evolution and what we should be embracing instead of throwing political darts at it.

this is my take...if you disagree fine...but do so with your eyes open and for the right reasons. not because some blowhard on cable tells you so - because he is lying to you to make money off you and laughing all the way to the bank as well...rest assured.

***this is the end of my social commentary. i think that the workers are not treated fairly based on the prices at WDW and there has been a conscious effort to squeeze more outta them for less for decades (probably because that is the exact thing that has happened). I would like to see the little guys win a few of these labor battles given the world we are in today...and even if it meant they striked while i'm there or it or it costs me more in the long run.

i won't debate politics or economics anymore...i'm sure we can find somewhere else on this board where we can fire away...if you want***

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I am a bit confused as to how they are underpaid. I recently took a trip with 12 family members and every meal was of the required 18 percent tip. This was done for each of our parties which equated to 60-80 dollars in tips for one hour of work at one buffet restaurant for one waiter. The service was bad too.

waiters and waitresses are the exceptions...not the rules

first, they make good money...but all those that support them do not. no tip pooling as in europe.
second, disney constantly attempts to squeeze the life out of the tipped individuals too. they eliminated the included gratuity in the dining plan to limit the earnings of those who were guaranteed the gratuities...nothing more. third, they have reduced table numbers and shifts periodically over the last 10-15 years to cut salaries. Again it was to limit pay, but also to bring pay more inline with their food and bev managers...who are also underpaid.

i see your point...there are some that do comparably well at WDW - this is true. But that is the statistical margin of error on the whole.

 

[cmash95]

it's not about pay it's about benefits. Disney wants to get rid of it's pension plan and instead go solely to 401K plans. They also want to cut back on what they pay for health insureance as well as cut back on the number of full time employees that qualify for the benefits. I have lived in florida for 27 years and have seen disney cut bach on benefits systematically over the yrears, especaiily after micheal eisner took over. It's time disney stop focussing on the bottom line and focus on their employees, especially those hourly employees that create the guest experience.

 

[Oglet]

Actually it's all about pay. The company and union agreed on the pension issue in the end, where they cant agree is on pay raises and rates across the board that would offset any increases in health insurance.

Monorails and a couple others are looking at 60 cents a hour extra in return for random drug testing, housekeepers are not doing too bad either but some of the other groups feel that they are getting a raw deal and I have to agree.

I am quite happy with what the company is offering us (monorails) sure they could do better but what person doesn't think their company could pay them more. The problem is a couple departments get looked after okay while others are pretty much thrown to the curb. As long as Disney does enough to keep certain groups happy their contract will be approved and tough luck to everyone else, that is what is hurting Disney workers more than anything. There is simply no unity between the unions, they all negotiate under the one banner and pretend to be united as one but at the end of the day they would all throw each other under a bus as long as their particular group is taken care off.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

it's not about pay it's about benefits. Disney wants to get rid of it's pension plan and instead go solely to 401K plans. They also want to cut back on what they pay for health insureance as well as cut back on the number of full time employees that qualify for the benefits. I have lived in florida for 27 years and have seen disney cut bach on benefits systematically over the yrears, especaiily after micheal eisner took over. It's time disney stop focussing on the bottom line and focus on their employees, especially those hourly employees that create the guest experience.

i hear you there...but this is one case where it's no worse for WDW workers than everyone else.

we've all had to pay more in contributions and more in copays for our healthcare for ten years...increasing each year. And many have abandoned what could be considered a pension altogether in favor of 401k and ira...

the only real exceptions now are public employees...and their time is coming on a widespread scale alot sooner than they think.

so while everyone went bats over the concept of a tax-based incorporated, universal system in this country...even though there is only 1 country of the top 50 economies in the world not to have one (100 bucks if you guess which one)...we continue to allow those who profit off health to get a firmer grip...while the corporations who determine the prices and pay shift the onus to the "individual"

so this is not a tragedy by WDW standards...its the new norm.

OH SAY - CAN YOU SEE?

...what's really going on?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I am quite happy with what the company is offering us (monorails) sure they could do better but what person doesn't think their company could pay them more. The problem is a couple departments get looked after okay while others are pretty much thrown to the curb. As long as Disney does enough to keep certain groups happy their contract will be approved and tough luck to everyone else, that is what is hurting Disney workers more than anything. There is simply no unity between the unions, they all negotiate under the one banner and pretend to be united as one but at the end of the day they would all throw each other under a bus as long as their particular group is taken care off.

the divide and conquer strategy that has worked in every negotiation and is the prime reason why no labor action will ever be taken at WDW.

like a charm

 

[Donut23]

i hear you there...but this is one case where it's no worse for WDW workers than everyone else.

we've all had to pay more in contributions and more in copays for our healthcare for ten years...increasing each year. And many have abandoned what could be considered a pension altogether in favor of 401k and ira...

the only real exceptions now are public employees...and their time is coming on a widespread scale alot sooner than they think.

so while everyone went bats over the concept of a tax-based incorporated, universal system in this country...even though there is only 1 country of the top 50 economies in the world not to have one (100 bucks if you guess which one)...we continue to allow those who profit off health to get a firmer grip...while the corporations who determine the prices and pay shift the onus to the "individual"

so this is not a tragedy by WDW standards...its the new norm.

OH SAY - CAN YOU SEE?

...what's really going on?

Don't forget many Disney pensions are waaaayyyyyy underfunded.

 

[OKW Lover]

Don't forget many Disney pensions are waaaayyyyyy underfunded.

It isn't at all unusual for a pension to be under-funded. At this point, its likely that almost everybody's pension plan is under-funded. Its a simple matter of the market and the fact that an employee's pension gets funded over the employee's career. So if the average service life of a company's employees is 10 years, but people are expected to work for 35 years, then you would only expect the fund to be about 1/3rd funded.

 

[11290]

Don't forget many Disney pensions are waaaayyyyyy underfunded.

And you know that for a fact? Send us a link to that information.

 

[OKW Lover]

And you know that for a fact? Send us a link to that information.

It wouldn't be any trouble to find that info. As a public company, Disney has to disclose this information in its 10K's.

 

[Donut23]

It isn't at all unusual for a pension to be under-funded. At this point, its likely that almost everybody's pension plan is under-funded. Its a simple matter of the market and the fact that an employee's pension gets funded over the employee's career. So if the average service life of a company's employees is 10 years, but people are expected to work for 35 years, then you would only expect the fund to be about 1/3rd funded.

Perhaps some find comfort in the company of underfunded pensions because "all are underfunded". Personally, I sleep far better at night knowing my DH's pension, as of November 2010, is only down to 123% funded.

Yes, he works for a union which got smart after the .com bubble burst and carefully managed pensions after.

62% funded....no thank you.

Pension funds CAN produce - but not many of Disney's.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

the divide and conquer strategy that has worked in every negotiation and is the prime reason why no labor action will ever be taken at WDW. like a charm

1) First, Disney has the dumbest unions I have ever seen.
2) They have zero power and almost zero negotiating sense.
3) They have a failed vote.
4) Then, agree to another vote AFTER the busy holiday season.
5) Stupid.
6) Really stupid.
7) Disney could care less if there is a strike - especially at this time of year.
8) And, if there is a strike,
. . . the membership can't afford to stay out until busy time
. . . the members will start to break the line and go back to work
. . . force the officers to settle because the strike isn't sustained

NOTE: I have never been on the union side of the table. But, I have been on the company side negotiating agreements with major unions, not the mamby-pamby ones at WDW. In fact, I had one negotiation where Bob King (President of UAW) said my proposals were the worst he ever saw and threw the papers across the table onto the floor, yet we got every one through! Meanwhile, union officers at WDW get all sorts of perks and do nothing for their folks. No wonder there is such a low participation percentage in union membership at WDW.

 

[Donut23]

1) First, Disney has the dumbest unions I have ever seen.
2) They have zero power and almost zero negotiating sense.
3) They have a failed vote.
4) Then, agree to another vote AFTER the busy holiday season.
5) Stupid.
6) Really stupid.
7) Disney could care less if there is a strike - especially at this time of year.
8) And, if there is a strike,
. . . the membership can't afford to stay out until busy time
. . . the members will start to break the line and go back to work
. . . force the officers to settle because the strike isn't sustained

NOTE: I have never been on the union side of the table. But, I have been on the company side negotiating agreements with major unions, not the mamby-pamby ones at WDW. In fact, I had one negotiation where Bob King (President of UAW) said my proposals were the worst he ever saw and threw the papers across the table onto the floor, yet we got every one through! Meanwhile, union officers at WDW get all sorts of perks and do nothing for their folks. No wonder there is such a low participation percentage in union membership at WDW.

I remember the stories of a strike my DH's union organized many years ago. GREAT support from the non-union employees but the less saavy strikers decided they were going to "bring Disney to its knees".

Well......day before Thanksgiving Disney cancelled the health insurance coverage for all strikers and everything resolved pretty quickly after that.

In DH's case, as long as there is a union employee on the payroll in his department, they have steadily and successfully replaced most others with contract workers the last 3 years. So far 33 years seniority has worked to our advantage. We are actually now keeping our fingers crossed for another tidy buyout when contract talks start later this Spring. He can finally collect his pension and we will be gone-gone-gone. Give me a sunny beach and a frosty blender drink!

Disney won't care if they strike. They WANT to break the unions.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

1) First, Disney has the dumbest unions I have ever seen.
2) They have zero power and almost zero negotiating sense.
3) They have a failed vote.
4) Then, agree to another vote AFTER the busy holiday season.
5) Stupid.
6) Really stupid.
7) Disney could care less if there is a strike - especially at this time of year.
8) And, if there is a strike,
. . . the membership can't afford to stay out until busy time
. . . the members will start to break the line and go back to work
. . . force the officers to settle because the strike isn't sustained

NOTE: I have never been on the union side of the table. But, I have been on the company side negotiating agreements with major unions, not the mamby-pamby ones at WDW. In fact, I had one negotiation where Bob King (President of UAW) said my proposals were the worst he ever saw and threw the papers across the table onto the floor, yet we got every one through! Meanwhile, union officers at WDW get all sorts of perks and do nothing for their folks. No wonder there is such a low participation percentage in union membership at WDW.

yeah...all those things you said...

and "right to work" is the biggest crock of SH!@##$%T ever laid on blue collar, lower income workers in the history of the US of A

go figure it takes root in the south...and is pushed by one particular family that systematically destroys everything they touch while in power