Disney will post Alligator warning signs and fences

[zaccaglin]

The range of the brown recluse doesn't include Florida.

There are brown recluse spiders in FL. I was bit in 2014 and my mom by one last year.

We have been to Disney World over 20 times and never gave any thought to alligators being on property until last September when we saw one IN Magic Kingdom right by the pathway near the Tom Sawyer Island dock (see the red dot on the map). It was 4 feet long, I would estimate. The CM we pointed it out to didn't seem to care in the slightest! That was our wake-up call. But prior to that I honestly never would have expected they were on property. Call us naive but the thought never crossed our minds.
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I've seen one ON Tom Sawyer island as a guest back in 2013. As a CM I've also seen them backstage at Epcot and saw two last year at the TTC by the bus loop.

 

[Nancyg56]

Exactly. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Dis posts that are all "I know we're not supposed to feed the birds but it's just so much fun for my kids and so cute!"

And then these are probably the same people who complain when a bird snatches their food out of their hands while they're trying to eat.

I am embarrassed to say my own DH was one of those people who shared his lunch with the birds at Flame Tree....until a CM chastised him. He thought I was kidding when I told him it was against the rules to feed them. Now my DH is that guy who generally follows rules, but thought the rule was more "liberal" than what I explained. He did stop as soon as the CM came over, but he still broke it all the same. People tend to bend warnings to what they want the warning to mean. All this discussion about no swimming signs around beaches proves that. I think that that the signs will help til somone decides that the area looks safe and one little toe won't hurt.

They will be killed, and Disney has done this for a long time (assuming they are over 4 foot).

But let me tell you, now that people know the alligators removed will be killed, (euthanized sounds so sanitary, doesn't it) how many people will bemoan that as well? We have bear in our area. A lot of bear. They have been here forever, but there has been new development and there ae folks moving in who ae not used to seeing Mama and her cubs stroll down the street, or slip through their hedge. So they call the DEEP to report them. You know.....informational calls. Because the DEEP does not know the Bears are there. Having breakfasts fom all the fancy bird feeders we have all asked the to take down. The DEEP tags the Bears. Once a bear has two red "earrings" the bear is "relocated.....but there is no where to relocate them, The bear is killed. WHAT?????? The DEEP said relocated!!!!!!!!! No. KILLED> and you are responsible for that. THese folks wanted it both ways, they want to feed the birds, be safe from wildlife they invited into their back yards, feel great about reporting the animals who took advantage of the invitation, and they also want to believe the animals are now happy as clams in a "new" home.

I gaurantee this may not get even messier fo Disney. Instead of keeping an eye on the alligators they may be faced with killing them, and the outcry over that will happen too. They will nto be able to make eveyone happy.

You echoed My sentiments exactly... UGH.

Yes. Mine as well.

What about tom sawyers island? Is that just a haven for snakes and other things like alligators? It is a favorite of my son. We are going in August. We make sure they stay on the paths.

Goodbye TOm Sawyer's Island.

 

[LSLS]

But let me tell you, now that people know the alligators removed will be killed, (euthanized sounds so sanitary, doesn't it) how many people will bemoan that as well? We have bear in our area. A lot of bear. They have been here forever, but there has been new development and there ae folks moving in who ae not used to seeing Mama and her cubs stroll down the street, or slip through their hedge. So they call the DEEP to report them. You know.....informational calls. Because the DEEP does not know the Bears are there. Having breakfasts fom all the fancy bird feeders we have all asked the to take down. The DEEP tags the Bears. Once a bear has two red "earrings" the bear is "relocated.....but there is no where to relocate them, The bear is killed. WHAT?????? The DEEP said relocated!!!!!!!!! No. KILLED> and you are responsible for that. THese folks wanted it both ways, they want to feed the birds, be safe from wildlife they invited into their back yards, feel great about reporting the animals who took advantage of the invitation, and they also want to believe the animals are now happy as clams in a "new" home.

There will be some that have zero education on the subject, but people with knowledge of gators and florida will not bat an eye. They have been doing this for decades (probably that long at disney as well).

 

[LSLS]

To the people complaining about the fencing. I have been with you thay gator attacks are ridiculously rare and that nobody needs to be running in fear that gators are coming for them. I've also been with you pointing out the importance of gators. But your comparissons of putting up fences everywhere else does not work unless those beach areas you are mentioning involve a ban permanent ban on being in the water (like at disney). If so, they should have some sort of rope fence like this.

Do I think the fence here is needed? Not to protect from gators, no. But you guys are acting like a 15 foot brick wall was just constructed and all ambiance has been ruined. I fail to see how this is going to have any impact on you or others other than giving people a physical barrier so they know how close they can get to the water.

 

[Nancyg56]

There will be some that have zero education on the subject, but people with knowledge of gators and florida will not bat an eye. They have been doing this for decades (probably that long at disney as well).

I know. In our area we ae pretty peeved with the folks who are disrupting our wildlife. DH and I were just discussing though, how this Spring differed from last year. Three of us had started a FB open forum that is pretty lively, and has a huge number of townies on it. I will not say we are no holds barred, but there ae very few rules in regards to posts, so we allowed residents to "educate" the posters who thought they were doing all of the community a service by reporting the pesky animals. Last year the DEEP responded a lot, this year...not so much. There is something to be said for "peer" pressure and some PSA's when it comes to managing the wildlife in the areas you choose to live. These people moved here for "ambiance". We have a lot of open space, protected environments and wildlife galore. If you choose to be a part of the community, you need to be aware of all aspects f the community and how your actions impact others. I know in FL the alligator population is problematic and residents know how the deal works. Outsiders may not. WE found that out the had way in our area.

Now we just need to stop whoever is feeding "his" foxes Bologna every day. I guess they must be cute, and they look hungry.

 

[HopperFan]

Disney SHOULD have had clear warning signs about the gator danger from the beginning.
Disney SHOULDN'T have cut their gator removal program this year in an effort to save money.
Disney will NOW do these things not because they want to, but because they have to.

This is not true and if you had watched the new conferences they actually talked about them. Disney has a very active wildlife management team who works closely with the state. In the case of gators they said Disney will relocate 4 foot and under to other areas of the property if they are where they should not be ie. on Splash Mountain. If larger gators are spotted and determined to be a nuisance or where they shouldn't be, they call the state who evaluates sending in State licensed trappers. They catch them and kill them. They said if they are a problem there they will be elsewhere as well.

I believe the toddler drowning at AOA happened at night when no lifeguards were on duty. The family decided to go swimming at night, someone didn't pay attention for a moment and the child drowned. All of the pools at that time had signs posted after hours that lifeguards are not present and swim at your own risk. Shortly after the incident fences were erected around the pools (some not all) and hours of operation were changed.

Wasn't it before that the pools were 24 hours?

This is not right. It was during swim hours with lifeguards and lots of people at the pool. It was an extended family at the pool, they lost track of their child, he had entered the shallow end and got in over his head. In a busy pool it is very easy to miss a child and it takes only minutes for a sad ending. The lifeguards and a guest who was a nurse tried to save him.

The range of the brown recluse doesn't include Florida.

There are brown recluse spiders in FL. I was bit in 2014 and my mom by one last year.

Yup, they are a real fear and they are in Florida.

I think the confusion comes in that they are not "native" but they have migrated all over Georgia and Florida. We are talking Brown Recluse and Black Widows.

We can spot Black Widows pretty quickly and they are usually tucked under rocks etc but the brown recluse is fast and in your garages and you can get bit and never see them.

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Div...Alerts/Pest-Alert-Venomous-Spiders-in-Florida

We are going to have to start educating ourselves because native means nothing anymore. The Nile Crocodile and Python are not native to Florida but they are there, dangerous and a HUGE concern. Yeah, the everglades we know is far away but the everglades start in Orlando ......... meaning these reptiles, if not gotten in control, can travel easily north.

 

[rteetz]

Fences and signs going up at the Poly today

 

[whiporee]

The Nile Crocodile and Python are not native to Florida but they are there, dangerous and a HUGE concern. Yeah, the everglades we know is far away but the everglades start in Orlando ......... meaning these reptiles, if not gotten in control, can travel easily north.

As anyone on the other thread can tell, I don't like them. But the Niles are a real threat (to anyone who doesn't know, Nile crocodile are like alligators and Florida crocodiles but exponentially more aggressive) and must be treated as real and significant threats to people and wildlife. So far it appears there's just one family line there, so hopefully they''l be easy.

As for the fences, i think WDW ought to consider large boulders, like these:

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/30/05/08/the-baths.jpg

That's the Baths in the BVI. The boulders would be pretty, and they'd be difficult to alligators to climb. They'd obstruct some beach view, but with water-based safeguards in place, the beach doesn't have to be as protected. You'd be cutting off some fish traffic and you'd be inviting more swimming, but it would limit the alligators willingness to come on to land in the specific areas where people might congregate.

 

[LSLS]

As anyone on the other thread can tell, I don't like them. But the Niles are a real threat (to anyone who doesn't know, Nile crocodile are like alligators and Florida crocodiles but exponentially more aggressive) and must be treated as real and significant threats to people and wildlife. So far it appears there's just one family line there, so hopefully they''l be easy.

As for the fences, i think WDW ought to consider large boulders, like these:

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/30/05/08/the-baths.jpg

That's the Baths in the BVI. The boulders would be pretty, and they'd be difficult to alligators to climb. They'd obstruct some beach view, but with water-based safeguards in place, the beach doesn't have to be as protected. You'd be cutting off some fish traffic and you'd be inviting more swimming, but it would limit the alligators willingness to come on to land in the specific areas where people might congregate.

It makes zero sense. First, it would cost a fortune. Second, gators would either go over it or they would go around it on land bringing people closer to conract. And third, they aren't that big a threat, especially if people know to stay away from the water. This is an insane overeation. Not to mention no swimming is not just because of gators.

Also, 4 Niles have been found in 15 years in the everglades with zero evidence of a breeding population.

 

[whiporee]

It makes zero sense. First, it would cost a fortune. Second, gators would either go over it or they would go around it on land bringing people closer to conract. And third, they aren't that big a threat, especially if people know to stay away from the water. This is an insane overeation. Not to mention no swimming is not just because of gators.

Also, 4 Niles have been found in 15 years in the everglades with zero evidence of a breeding population.

I think I addressed all your concerns, but I guess a rope fence along the beach works well, too.

But to be clear, do you think that the Niles should just be left alone? or should they be removed? Just curious.

 

[chelynnah]

As anyone on the other thread can tell, I don't like them. But the Niles are a real threat (to anyone who doesn't know, Nile crocodile are like alligators and Florida crocodiles but exponentially more aggressive) and must be treated as real and significant threats to people and wildlife. So far it appears there's just one family line there, so hopefully they''l be easy.

As for the fences, i think WDW ought to consider large boulders, like these:

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/30/05/08/the-baths.jpg

That's the Baths in the BVI. The boulders would be pretty, and they'd be difficult to alligators to climb. They'd obstruct some beach view, but with water-based safeguards in place, the beach doesn't have to be as protected. You'd be cutting off some fish traffic and you'd be inviting more swimming, but it would limit the alligators willingness to come on to land in the specific areas where people might congregate.

It's not about keeping the gators off land, it's about keeping people out of the water. Gators will scale rocks like that in a heartbeat, so it will only add a false sense of security. If you want to see how agile gators are go search YouTube for videos of them scaling wire fences.

The current fences going up won't actually physically stop either, but it's a visual barrier (along with the attached signs) that will hopefully now communicate to everyone that the water is off limits, while still in keeping with the theming of the area and still feeling 'beachy'

 

[only hope]

To those who can't believe Disney "allows" alligators to live on their property:

Alligators are everywhere in Florida. Neighborhoods are dotted with ponds, some natural and some for retention. Alligators live in many of them, and rarely cause problems.

Disney was built on a swamp and is surrounded by swamp land. If all the alligators were somehow found and removed from WDW property today, more would move in very quickly. It is not possible to keep WDW alligator-free. Also, Disney is not allowed to remove alligators. They are a federally protected species and only people with a license are allowed to move them, and then only under certain conditions. Small alligators who are afraid of people will never be removed. Alligators are just a part of life in Florida, like wolves, coyotes, scorpions, etc are in other parts of the country. Once we had a very large alligator living in the pond across from our house. There is an elementary school just past the pond and kids walk by it to go to and from school. However, the alligator was not removed until it started laying on the shore near the sidewalk even when people were walking by. The trapper who came told us even so it was only being removed because of the dozens of kids who walk past every day, as it wasn't laying right next to the sidewalk or approaching anyone.

Please don't overreact and expect Disney to remove all the alligators. It's not going to happen and it's not necessary. What is necessary is staying away from the shore and refraining from feeding alligators or any other wildlife in the water as alligators may eat the food intended for other animals.

 

[nugov2]

To those who can't believe Disney "allows" alligators to live on their property:

Alligators are everywhere in Florida. Neighborhoods are dotted with ponds, some natural and some for retention. Alligators live in many of them, and rarely cause problems.

Disney was built on a swamp and is surrounded by swamp land. If all the alligators were somehow found and removed from WDW property today, more would move in very quickly. It is not possible to keep WDW alligator-free. Also, Disney is not allowed to remove alligators. They are a federally protected species and only people with a license are allowed to move them, and then only under certain conditions. Small alligators who are afraid of people will never be removed. Alligators are just a part of life in Florida, like wolves, coyotes, scorpions, etc are in other parts of the country. Once we had a very large alligator living in the pond across from our house. There is an elementary school just past the pond and kids walk by it to go to and from school. However, the alligator was not removed until it started laying on the shore near the sidewalk even when people were walking by. The trapper who came told us even so it was only being removed because of the dozens of kids who walk past every day, as it wasn't laying right next to the sidewalk or approaching anyone.

Please don't overreact and expect Disney to remove all the alligators. It's not going to happen and it's not necessary. What is necessary is staying away from the shore and refraining from feeding alligators or any other wildlife in the water as alligators may eat the food intended for other animals.

I don't think anyone thinks (or very few)Disney shouldn't allow gators. They think that when they build an inviting man made family beach and know there are gators in that body of water they should warn their guests of it.

I think your statement is an overreaction just like the few who actually have the viewpoint you are posting about, because very few people feel that way. Most just feel proper signage is appropriate and they did not have it.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't think anyone thinks (or very few)Disney shouldn't allow gators. They think that when they build an inviting man made family beach and know there are gators in that body of water they should warn their guests of it.

I think your statement is an overreaction just like the few who actually have the viewpoint you are posting about, because very few people feel that way. Most just feel proper signage is appropriate and they did not have it.

Oh, there has been some posts the past few days that suggest just that. The frenzy is dying down but there are still people who believe you can control them like you do the mosquitoes

 

[nugov2]

Oh, there has been some posts the past few days that suggest just that. The frenzy is dying down but there are still people who believe you can control them like you do the mosquitoes

I've read most of the threads and tons of news articles...I see very few who are suggesting that. I see people suggesting they should try to remove them when sighted and hopefully they aren't cutting down on removal due to budget cuts all over disney, but very few who think it is a no brainer for Disney to just keep the gators off their property. I think you are reading more into some comments then is actually there.

 

[Planogirl]

When I said here we go I just meant backlash against Disney. Was just passing on the story I saw.

I understand. I just don't get why these other people would sue. People are so sue happy nowadays.

 

[midaroco]

This is not true and if you had watched the new conferences they actually talked about them. Disney has a very active wildlife management team who works closely with the state. In the case of gators they said Disney will relocate 4 foot and under to other areas of the property if they are where they should not be ie. on Splash Mountain. If larger gators are spotted and determined to be a nuisance or where they shouldn't be, they call the state who evaluates sending in State licensed trappers. They catch them and kill them. They said if they are a problem there they will be elsewhere as well.

It is true.
I didn't say Disney ceased their program in dealing with the gators. They made departmental cuts that effected the overall hours and operations of their wildlife program that then, in turn, effected their program to deal with gators. Just because it is not public knowledge, and you are unaware of it does not make it untrue.

 

[DearDonald]

I wonder if at Aulani they will put a fence up at the ocean and a sign listing all the potential dangerous creatures....

The difference is that just about everyone knows the dangers of the ocean. If you stayed at a resort in the Washington Wildnerness, would you expect the signs to say "stay out of the forest", put the lawn chairs right by the trees, and never mention that bears have been seen in that exact area?

 

[1234lucky]

I'm very surprised Disney is implementing these changes so quickly. Doesn't that basically doom them legally, when the family decides to file suit? They are basically admitting they didn't do enough to prevent this from happening.

Generally post accident remedial measures are inadmissible in court. The theory is that you don't want to discourage business owners from making changes after an accident by allowing plaintiffs to claim these changes were because they knew of the risk/danger.

 

[LSLS]

I think I addressed all your concerns, but I guess a rope fence along the beach works well, too.

But to be clear, do you think that the Niles should just be left alone? or should they be removed? Just curious.

You didn't address any of them. Specifically the cost and the fact there is zero need. You should not be in that water regardless of alligators. Gators scaling it would not be an issue, they scale things all the time. Plus if it was an issue, all that would happen is either a.) They would sir in the pool you just created being more dangerous or b.) They would walk on land bringing them more into contact with people.

As for niles, yes they should be wiped out in florida, if they are ever hwre they are invasive. But to say they are a real threat means that you ignore every shred of evidence and expert in biology. 4 have been found in 15 years, and there is no breeding population. Just because a few idiots have released a nile into the wild when it is illegal doesn't make it a real threat, especially at disney world. That is sensationalism at its worst.