Disney will post Alligator warning signs and fences

Okay, comparing the sign posted on facebook to a video tour, it looks like the sign was there at least in May 2015. That said, I can't read the sign in the video because no one is recording the walls of the bungalow, they are just trying to show off the chairs/mini pool thing. But it's the first video I've seen showing the exterior walls on the balcony
Here's the sign from facebook
13419210_1213614365349902_2592129050649229381_n.jpg

It says balcony but it matches all the features of the exterior of the bungalow, so maybe that's just what they are called?
 
Okay, comparing the sign posted on facebook to a video tour, it looks like the sign was there at least in May 2015. That said, I can't read the sign in the video because no one is recording the walls of the bungalow, they are just trying to show off the chairs/mini pool thing. But it's the first video I've seen showing the exterior walls on the balcony
Here's the sign from facebook
13419210_1213614365349902_2592129050649229381_n.jpg

It says balcony but it matches all the features of the exterior of the bungalow, so maybe that's just what they are called?
Ok, thanks for the investigating! They at least knew it was against the rules.
 
Then by all means shut the place down - that's essentially what it would take to do what you're advocating.

Nonsense. Look, this is a matter of "want to". WDW should staff up their wildlife management team to deal with this problem. Eliminate/relocate the resident population first, with priority on high guest areas like Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. From there it's just a matter of vigilance to deal with newcomers. It will be difficult and continuous work but it is doable. I am flabbergasted that WDW has allowed this unnecessary risk to persist. Crazy!
 
Nonsense. Look, this is a matter of "want to". WDW should staff up their wildlife management team to deal with this problem. Eliminate/relocate the resident population first, with priority on high guest areas like Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. From there it's just a matter of vigilance to deal with newcomers. It will be difficult and continuous work but it is doable. I am flabbergasted that WDW has allowed this unnecessary risk to persist. Crazy!

The risk is teeny-tiny, and as long as guests follow the new signs it is all but non-existent. You are at a higher risk of being in a crash using the resort buses, but no one has advocated shutting them down. Someone has been killed on the monorail, and yet no one has said to shut them down.

And no, it is not doable to keep all gators out of any body of water in Florida. I am and continue to be flabbergasted that people think it is. You can manage wildlife, you can't control it to the extent that you can totally keep it out of certain areas. If that were true, there would be no gators anywhere out of the water in Florida. Arizona wouldn't have so many snakes that you need a gun or a stick to take a walk. You wouldn't have to worry about bears trekking to the falls in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Disney can and does manage the wildlife. What they can't do is eradicate it.
 

Nonsense. Look, this is a matter of "want to". WDW should staff up their wildlife management team to deal with this problem. Eliminate/relocate the resident population first, with priority on high guest areas like Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. From there it's just a matter of vigilance to deal with newcomers. It will be difficult and continuous work but it is doable. I am flabbergasted that WDW has allowed this unnecessary risk to persist. Crazy!


Ummm, that's EXACTLY what they have been doing for years. Even wildlife experts have said that it is impossible to remove them all. Also, it is against the law to mess with those under 4'. Also, all removal must be done by a licensed trapper.
 
I did not misunderstand your original post, it is very clear.

Now that you have edited your post it has a different meaning............

you did misunderstand, and it's ok. :-)
I edited the post for your benefit, to help avoid future misunderstandings.
 
I still don't know how the person heard about cuts to the program. I haven't heard anything about Disney making cuts to their alligator removal program.

Because you haven't read about it yet, it is not possible for others to have access to information?
 
/
Oh I don't believe him. Everyone wants to state excuses why this happened as if you can predict a something like 1 in 32 million incident.

My comment was more he states a fact, argues I don't understand what was said but then goes back and changes the post to a completely different statement. So ...

Quite frankly, I don't care what you believe. You did misunderstand, and as I said -it's ok

As I said, I changed it for your benefit since you were having issues understanding.

I'm not the one protesting. I was showing a kindness in altering the statement to avoid future misunderstandings.

As I have said right along, it's fine You're good! No hard feelings!
 
Because you haven't read about it yet, it is not possible for others to have access to information?
I am not saying people don't have access to that but some proof would be nice even if they just say I work for Disney. I also feel like that info would've leaked out by now with this situation. For now I'm going to doubt they made cuts to the program.
 
I was also reading about a toddler drowning in the AoA pool after getting away from his parents. I think I'm going to be one of those paranoid mothers who puts her toddler on one of those backpack leashes this year, seriously!!
To be honest that issue is not one related to Disney at all. That happens all the time all over the U.S. We've already had multiple news stories about children in near drowning this year and it's only been a few weeks since the pools have been open (they open Memorial Day here). So far no one has actually drowned but that is very likely to happen at least once in my metro. Any time a child has access to water they could drown-a person's own pool, a public pool, a community pool, an apartment complex pool, etc. It's a very sad thing when it happens though and I understand your worry just don't let it get to you too much :flower1:
 
I've lived in Florida for most of my life.

When Disney World was built, alligators were receiving protection from the Lacey act and later would receive additional protection by being declared endangered just a couple of years later.

This poor two year old boy was the very first victim for the year in all of the state of Florida. Last year, only one person was fatally attacked. That person was killed in a spring that had always been safe for swimming up in an area of the spring where I had never seen a gator. This spring had/has excellent visibility. But, we get complacent swimming in an area that has always been safe. The person who was killed had gone diving in that same location many times.

Disney has significantly less gators than it would if it wasn't managing gators proactively. There is a trail near my home where I routinely walk and on a 2 mile walk I can EASILY count 40 gators sunning on the banks of what is little more than a marshy drainage ditch. I've only seen a few gators at Disney and I've been there quite a bit. If Disney wasn't managing gators, you would be able to count tons of them on the banks. Of course, those you see on the bank are only some of the gators that are actually there.

Additionally, the gator involved was of a size that is usually still very skittish. I spook 7 foot gators on a pretty regular basis. They usually have to be bigger than that to be bold enough to be a problem. 6 foot and smaller usually dive into the water and swim away when I'm within 20 feet or so. The big ones stay on land and watch you.

We all decide what risks we will take. I don't let my daughter wade in or play near freshwater bodies of water here in Florida even though she is a LOT more likely to die in a car accident on the way home from the park. I had good friends growing up that swam in the water on a regular basis without mishaps despite the large gators.

Pretty much, what happened to this kid was nobody's fault. It was a fantastically rare freak incident.

One of my favorite trails was ruined by tourists in the last few years. This is a trail that has tons of gators, but, also great migrating bird viewing. Anyways, despite tons of warning signs, tourists kept approaching and trying to handle baby gators. The park tried to keep it under control by posting a ranger, but, people kept approaching gators. They finally built a raised platform with a locked gate at the end and now the trail is a few hundred feet long instead of 2 miles long. From what I understand, now they only open the rest of the trail when they have the staffing to post what are essentially babysitters for tourists.
But, even with hundreds of ignorant people approaching tons of gators and attempting to catch baby gators, somehow, NO ONE GOT KILLED.

I share this point to illustrate how truly rare it is for a gator to actually kill a human.

There is a marina and dock near my home where people fish off the banks of a river which is just full of gators. On weekends, even small children are fishing right at the water's edge. That is a scene repeated all over the state of Florida and yet this poor kid is the ONLY gator fatality.

It's just bad luck.

If we're being truly honest with ourselves, the reason this is so upsetting is because it illustrates just one more way in which we are not in control. It's just one more thing to be afraid of. I think that people have really latched on to it because no one wants to think about Pulse nightclub and what might have happened at Disney. Which could really happen anywhere. But, that's not something we can control. We can control whether or not we go near freshwater in Florida. Alligators seem like a less complex problem and it's easy to get caught up in the 'put up a fence' 'post a better sign' rhetoric. You are still statistically more likely to die in a mass shooting than get killed by a gator. But, we all know how to fix the alligator problem from the safety and comfort of our living rooms. It gives us something to think about that has a solution.

Bottomline- I understand why Disney didn't have a fence there. There are tons of places in Florida with gators and tourists, no fences and no fatalities. I understand why the parents of that child thought it was safe, because it was safe 99.99% of the time for the other 99.99% of people who used that beach. Sometimes, you are just that incredibly unlucky person or family who make up the 0.001%. It's not fair, but, last I checked life isn't fair when it's handing out cancer either.
 
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I am not saying people don't have access to that but some proof would be nice even if they just say I work for Disney. I also feel like that info would've leaked out by now with this situation. For now I'm going to doubt they made cuts to the program.

I'm with you. If someone had factual information, at the least they would have posted the correct info the first time and not needed to backtrack and edit their comments.

What a week.

Guess many just like to thrive on sensationalism, exaggeration and love to tell "stories" to create hysteria. Too bad facts have gotten lost in all this; it is a really bad game of telephone and then add in all the suggestions of what should happen ................ no words.

In 13 years here I have never seen anything like it.
 
I've lived in Florida for most of my life.

When Disney World was built, alligators were receiving protection from the Lacey act and later would receive additional protection by being declared endangered just a couple of years later.

This poor two year old boy was the very first victim for the year in all of the state of Florida. Last year, only one person was fatally attacked. That person was killed in a spring that had always been safe for swimming up in an area of the spring where I had never seen a gator. This spring had/has excellent visibility. But, we get complacent swimming in an area that has always been safe. The person who was killed had gone diving in that same location many times.

Disney has significantly less gators than it would if it wasn't managing gators proactively. There is a trail near my home where I routinely walk and on a 2 mile walk I can EASILY count 40 gators sunning on the banks of what is little more than a marshy drainage ditch. I've only seen a few gators at Disney and I've been there quite a bit. If Disney wasn't managing gators, you would be able to count tons of them on the banks. Of course, those you see on the bank are only some of the gators that are actually there.

Additionally, the gator involved was of a size that is usually still very skittish. I spook 7 foot gators on a pretty regular basis. They usually have to be bigger than that to be bold enough to be a problem. 6 foot and smaller usually dive into the water and swim away when I'm within 20 feet or so. The big ones stay on land and watch you.

We all decide what risks we will take. I don't let my daughter wade in or play near freshwater bodies of water here in Florida even though she is a LOT more likely to die in a car accident on the way home from the park. I had good friends growing up that swam in the water on a regular basis without mishaps despite the large gators.

Pretty much, what happened to this kid was nobody's fault. It was a fantastically rare freak incident.

One of my favorite trails was ruined by tourists in the last few years. This is a trail that has tons of gators, but, also great migrating bird viewing. Anyways, despite tons of warning signs, tourists kept approaching and trying to handle baby gators. The park tried to keep it under control by posting a ranger, but, people kept approaching gators. They finally built a raised platform with a locked gate at the end and now the trail is a few hundred feet long instead of 2 miles long. From what I understand, now they only open the rest of the trail when they have the staffing to post what are essentially babysitters for tourists.
But, even with hundreds of ignorant people approaching tons of gators and attempting to catch baby gators, somehow, NO ONE GOT KILLED.

I share this point to illustrate how truly rare it is for a gator to actually kill a human.

There is a marina and dock near my home where people fish off the banks of a river which is just full of gators. On weekends, even small children are fishing right at the water's edge. That is a scene repeated all over the state of Florida and yet this poor kid is the ONLY gator fatality.

It's just bad luck.

If we're being truly honest with ourselves, the reason this is so upsetting is because it illustrates just one more way in which we are not in control. It's just one more thing to be afraid of. I think that people have really latched on to it because no one wants to think about Pulse nightclub and what might have happened at Disney. Which could really happen anywhere. But, that's not something we can control. We can control whether or not we go near freshwater in Florida. Alligators seem like a less complex problem and it's easy to get caught up in the 'put up a fence' 'post a better sign' rhetoric. You are still statistically more likely to die in a mass shooting than get killed by a gator. But, we all know how to fix the alligator problem from the safety and comfort of our living rooms. It gives us something to think about that has a solution.

Bottomline- I understand why Disney didn't have a fence there. There are tons of places in Florida with gators and tourists, no fences and no fatalities. I understand why the parents of that child thought it was safe, because it was safe 99.99% of the time for the other 99.99% of people who used that beach. Sometimes, you are just that incredibly unlucky person or family who make up the 0.001%. It's not fair, but, last I checked life isn't fair when it's handing out cancer either.


You sound like a person who has a vast knowledge of Florida and its' natural habitat. It would be silly to place a fence around the entire lake. It was plain stupid of Disney to build a beachfront on the lake to invite guests to the water with nighttime activities such as Movie night, electrical water pageant and fireworks viewing and not warn them of the dangers. The .0001%' odds were against this poor child. A little more effort and information by Disney could have decreased the odds even more.
 
In 13 years here I have never seen anything like it.
In my three years here I would have to agree. Even from a moderator standpoint a lot of us are monitoring these types of threads since the issue crosses so many different categories on the disboards. I think it's going to be a long time before we see another topic like this if ever.
 
To be honest that issue is not one related to Disney at all. That happens all the time all over the U.S. We've already had multiple news stories about children in near drowning this year and it's only been a few weeks since the pools have been open (they open Memorial Day here). So far no one has actually drowned but that is very likely to happen at least once in my metro. Any time a child has access to water they could drown-a person's own pool, a public pool, a community pool, an apartment complex pool, etc. It's a very sad thing when it happens though and I understand your worry just don't let it get to you too much :flower1:

Unfortunately we have already had a few drownings near us too. It happens every year. And in South Carolina there recently were toddler twins who drown when they somehow got into a fenced off pool, and no one noticed they were gone until it was too late.:sad1: Accidents happen, even when all the proper steps are taken to keep people safe.
 
I am not saying people don't have access to that but some proof would be nice even if they just say I work for Disney. I also feel like that info would've leaked out by now with this situation. For now I'm going to doubt they made cuts to the program.

With the microscope that they are putting this whole thing under, I would have to agree. Every news outlet from here to Istanbul would pay good money for such CREDIBLE info. This whole thing is 30 years old in news cycle years and not a peep has come out.
 
You sound like a person who has a vast knowledge of Florida and its' natural habitat. It would be silly to place a fence around the entire lake. It was plain stupid of Disney to build a beachfront on the lake to invite guests to the water with nighttime activities such as Movie night, electrical water pageant and fireworks viewing and not warn them of the dangers. The .0001%' odds were against this poor child. A little more effort and information by Disney could have decreased the odds even more.


I think you missed my point. I don't think anyone was at fault. Disney posted a "no swimming" sign to protect themselves from liability. Their first concerns were probably accidental drowning followed closely by brain-eating amoeba, Naegleria fowleri. They were concerned about large gators, which is why there weren't any gators greater than 7 feet in that whole area. A 7 foot or smaller gator hasn't killed a person in 40 years, until now. There has only been one alligator attack in the southern states where a person was taken from land and all of the 28 other alligator fatalities in the last 40 years have been a situation where the person was in the water.

Pretty much, you were safe until you put your feet in the water. Even if you did put your feet in the water, which I'm sure thousands of people in Florida do every single day, you were still safer than you were on your drive to the water.

Freak accident. The kid could have just as easily tripped and fallen in the water and ended up with Naegleria fowleri. That would have been another particularly rare way to die.

You are more likely to trip over your own feet and die by knocking your head against a countertop. Am I liable if I don't post that warning sign in my kitchen and a visitor trips over their own feet and dies? We're talking that kind of rare. It's just something that happens.
 
I think you missed my point. I don't think anyone was at fault. Disney posted a "no swimming" sign to protect themselves from liability. Their first concerns were probably accidental drowning followed closely by brain-eating amoeba, Naegleria fowleri. They were concerned about large gators, which is why there weren't any gators greater than 7 feet in that whole area. A 7 foot or smaller gator hasn't killed a person in 40 years, until now. There has only been one alligator attack in the southern states where a person was taken from land and all of the 28 other alligator fatalities in the last 40 years have been a situation where the person was in the water.

Pretty much, you were safe until you put your feet in the water. Even if you did put your feet in the water, which I'm sure thousands of people in Florida do every single day, you were still safer than you were on your drive to the water.

Freak accident. The kid could have just as easily tripped and fallen in the water and ended up with Naegleria fowleri. That would have been another particularly rare way to die.

You are more likely to trip over your own feet and die by knocking your head against a countertop. Am I liable if I don't post that warning sign in my kitchen and a visitor trips over their own feet and dies? We're talking that kind of rare. It's just something that happens.

People just don't like statistics, I think. I guess when it finally happens, it's more "real" than something abstract like low probabilities. I would imagine it's as difficult to imagine these small probabilities as it is to imagine just how large 1 trillion is, even though we often hear the number talked about in reference to the national debt.

I still trust in the numbers.
 
People just don't like statistics, I think. I guess when it finally happens, it's more "real" than something abstract like low probabilities. I would imagine it's as difficult to imagine these small probabilities as it is to imagine just how large 1 trillion is, even though we often hear the number talked about in reference to the national debt.

I still trust in the numbers.

The general public will always treat anecdotes with more respect than data, which is horrifying and disappointing. Emotions really do mess with the average person's brain.

At the end of the day those who have talked about data are correct. This was utterly unexpected and is essentially the 0.0001%. Which, granted, that 0.0001% was a person, with a family, who are now grieving...and Disney will more than likely be paying out a heck of an out-of-court settlement as a result. But to treat the entire situation with such caution and overbearing restriction over the 0.0001% is just silly.
 

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