Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[DVC92]

One final thought: IF this move were driven by a desire to sell more points, why not do it 2 years ago? Why not 5 years ago or 8 years ago? I believe that Dean has said that DVC has known a reallocation was needed as far back as 2001, but they held off doing it out of fear of member backlash. (That's also 2-3 years before Jim Lewis was appointed VP of DVC.)

Probably, because sales have been significanty reduced at the present time. Additional sales weren't an issue in the past few years with people spending money like there was no tomorrow. That has come to an abrupt end. New buyers (although fewer than DVD would like) will still purchase BLT and AKV if they have the money, and since they aren't aware of any of these issues. However, DVD probably hopes a sufficient number of current members do add-ons for the minimal number of points they need to continue their previous plans.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have a question about the maximum reallocation chart. It states that each club member will always be eligible to reserve at least one (1) Use Day in the different Vacation Home types at his or her Home Resort, subject to availability, for the following number of Home Resort Vacation Points.

It then continues on with a grid showing points for each Resort and accomodation size.

In comparing this to the current point charts it appears that this requires them to keep at least 1 season (or I guess technically 1 day in a year) at the point amount they list and then they are allowed to go over or under this, correct?

Second - are they ever allowed to change this maximum point number in the categories - ie, if they discover Studios have developed an overwhelming popularity and two-bedrooms have dropped like rocks and would that change apply to all members or just those who bought under those provisions?

From a couple of other postings on this it sounds like they have modified the length of time they will be guaranteed to book at this maximum - does the change to a one day rule apply retroactively to those members? I think Doc posted something similar to being guaranteed a week at a certain maximum.

I'm just wishing to beef up my knowledge of what can and can't be done in the future so I am fully prepared.

FYI - the Treehouse maximum is set at 42 while two-bedroom rooms at SSR are at 41. Just something that stood out since currently they are renting at the same point level.

 

[bub]

The e-mails only direct you to the members' site where you read about them. You are getting an "alert to go to the members' site," not special information.

Bobbi

PS. This came after the notice about Tree House sales:
Plus...

Disney Parks Celebrate US Military with Free Admission in 2009
New wait-list process designed to improve Member experience
Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points Charts
Sanaa reservations begin Feb. 16

Bobbi - Thanks for posting this. I am not getting the emails anymore...I used to get them. Guess I will need to contact DVC and try and figure out why (as did "Anal Annie" above, with no luck). But still, not all members get emails so they should send something this major out in the real mail asap.

Has anyone who is unhappy about the changes complained directly to DVC and not just through this forum? I think I will do this, so that they will know that the changes are not something that every member is so happy about. I am starting not to like it when the words "improve Member experience" or "to benefit Members" are used.

 

[Chuck S]

I am also irritated that I don't receive these emails they send out either. (I still haven't had time to log onto the DVC website to even read about these latest changes!) I emailed MS about the email thing (or lack of it) earlier this month. I got a reply back on Jan. 12 from someone in "online communications" saying that I was indeed set up correctly and they didn't know why I wasn't receiving them. She said they had more emails scheduled to go out this month and if I didn't receive them to call. So I just hung up from spending 42 min. on hold with MS while they "checked" again. For some reason they could not Xfer me to this "online communications" department. Once again I had to sit thru the "did you check your junk mail box" excuse. YES, DARN IT!!!

One possible explanation for your not receiving email, is the mass email service DVC uses for general info is different from the go.com address used for most other Disney email communications. DVC mass emails go through chtah.com, some anti-spam/anti virus software may be automatically blocking the email. It could also be auto-blocked by your ISP.

While I am sure you checked the Member Website under email updates, you may want to take a look to be sure it is showing your correct address, and that you checked both boxes for Receive Member Update/Promo material and Disney insider.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm still so depressed about these changes. Of course they benefit Disney's bottom line, because otherwise why would they do this and put up with the complaints?

Because DVCMC (Disney Vacation Club Management Corp) has an obligation to ensure that the point charts remain in line with member demand. Detailed explanation here:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=29921973&postcount=1480

If this truly is the reason, you basically have a major change to point usage due to the complaints of those wanting weekends and some wanting 9 nights out of 365 for MVMCP and ESPN,

And also due do shifts in member demand as stated in the notice.

Yes, DVC is guilty of "buying the lead" (not stressing that fact strongly enough), but it is very much part of the reasoning behind the reallocation.

Probably, because sales have been significanty reduced at the present time. Additional sales weren't an issue in the past few years with people spending money like there was no tomorrow. That has come to an abrupt end.

But members abilities to add-on have also been impacted by the economy. In fact, I don't think it is unreasonable to assume those with smaller contracts and resort-specific add-ons (who are most impacted by the reallocation) are the ones now most lacking the funds for another add-on.

And I cannot see this as a net gain in sales for DVC...particularly in light of the ill will it has certainly generated.

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=29945415&postcount=1610

I have a question about the maximum reallocation chart. It states that each club member will always be eligible to reserve at least one (1) Use Day in the different Vacation Home types at his or her Home Resort, subject to availability, for the following number of Home Resort Vacation Points.

It then continues on with a grid showing points for each Resort and accomodation size.

In comparing this to the current point charts it appears that this requires them to keep at least 1 season (or I guess technically 1 day in a year) at the point amount they list and then they are allowed to go over or under this, correct?

No. The maximum reallocation values only apply if DVC were to completely eliminate all booking seasons and weekday/weekend differentials. The values listed would be the nightly point cost for all 365 days of the year.

 

[Mike]

I am quite PO'd about the reallocation. My annual vacation will now require 40 more points. I own 220 points and now I need 260 points per year. I will not change the length of my vacations. I will not be adding on. I will be staying offsite those additional days that I can no longer afford.

I will not be selling my contract but I doubt I will be buying APs anytime soon. We will be spending less days in the parks and we will visit other area attractions more frequently.

Also, when I am in the parks, everytime I walk by a DVC kiosk and see people inquiring, I am going to pull out my member card, show it to them and tell them to think twice about buying. I will do my part to caution perspective buyers.

 

[lugnut33]

I'd be interested to know if they are even showing the 2010 points charts at those kiosks.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I'd be interested to know if they are even showing the 2010 points charts at those kiosks.

I am not sure that the kiosks even have charts. I think the kiosks exist to get people over to the SSR showroom. We were at BWV once and I stopped at the little disk they had and asked to see a chart, because we were talking about our next visit. The person didn't have one to show me.
Bobbi
PS. If they did have the charts, I think it would benefit DVC to show next years charts.

 

[KLR-wlv]

SOme people keep insisting this has no financial benefit for disney - what about the rental market - this move ups rental weeks - likely the sun - thursday crowd - by $150-$400 per week. That could move people to CRO instead of taking a risk with rentals.

ALso we don't know how many ROFR contracts they have - say for $50 Vero points. Perhaps they have a bunch of VB points they ROFR'd and think jacking those nights all up by the 20% will get VB owners to do add-ons.

Are there any numbers on how many points DVC owns at the older resorts due to ROFR??

 

[dizney4us]

Also, when I am in the parks, everytime I walk by a DVC kiosk and see people inquiring, I am going to pull out my member card, show it to them and tell them to think twice about buying. I will do my part to caution perspective buyers.

We will be doing this as well. We have a few family members that were on the fence about buying....this will be a total turn off for them!
The con is on!

 

[Chuck S]

SOme people keep insisting this has no financial benefit for disney - what about the rental market - this move ups rental weeks - likely the sun - thursday crowd - by $150-$400 per week. That could move people to CRO instead of taking a risk with rentals.

ALso we don't know how many ROFR contracts they have - say for $50 Vero points. Perhaps they have a bunch of VB points they ROFR'd and think jacking those nights all up by the 20% will get VB owners to do add-ons.

Are there any numbers on how many points DVC owns at the older resorts due to ROFR??

But remember, Disney CRO has somewhat limited DVC unit inventory, garnered mostly from members trading into the Disney collection. I'm more inclined to think that DVC was not able to as easily recoup the $$ needed for such trades, as overall rental demand likely has dropped with the economy. Having more expensive DVC rooms to rent does not necessarily equal more income today, remember that CRO often upgraded VALUE class guests to DVC one bedrooms during the last two "free dining" promotions for free. Not much of a money maker.

Also, ROFR really isn't a huge money maker, either. Remember Disney has to pay a decent price to get those points back, they have to match the original offer received and accepted by the seller, who theoretically should be accepting the highest offer submitted. Much lower profit ratio than simply selling "new" points at the newest resorts. It is possible, though, that Disney has some inventory of repossessed points, but that is also less likely with the older resorts, as the vast majority of those loans would have beed satisfied years ago. Unless people are defaulting simply on dues, instead of selling the points - which makes very little sense, too.

 

[Chuck S]

Also, when I am in the parks, everytime I walk by a DVC kiosk and see people inquiring, I am going to pull out my member card, show it to them and tell them to think twice about buying. I will do my part to caution perspective buyers.

We will be doing this as well. We have a few family members that were on the fence about buying....this will be a total turn off for them!
The con is on!

Let us know what it is like in the park security area, OK?

 

[disneynutz]

SOme people keep insisting this has no financial benefit for disney

Some people will never admit or understand that everything that Disney does is based upon financial benefit, flavored to look like an improvement to the Guest/Member experience.

Programs, perks, park hours, point charts, DDP, are all adjusted to increase corporate revenue.

They are going to make adjustments no matter what we say. DVD just does a poor job of implementing the adjustments because they have become sales focused and not member focused.

In fact, I will bet that they made the change now because they want to print new sales information that includes 2010.

 

[bcrook]

Let us know what it is like in the park security area, OK?

Yikes! That sounds intimidating. If that is a possibility they are going to have to change their slogan to Welcome Home - but keep your opinions to yourself!

 

[Chuck S]

Programs, perks, park hours, point charts, DDP, are all adjusted to increase corporate revenue.

I should think this is true of every corporation and business. Just like the way video stores offered cards that you pre-paid for a movie rental every month, but got a discount. The were hoping that your'd either forget to get your movie, or would pick-up more than one whie you are their.

All inclusive resorts, like in Mexico and the Bahamas, which the DDP sort of mimics, are not about saving money for the guests, they are a a convienence for the guest. The resort hopes they skip a few meals.

Park hours...of course, how many businesses do you know that will remain open if they don't have enough customers to justify the operating costs?

Point charts, I still disagree the re-allocation is designed primarily as a money maker. They have a legal obligation to balance the charts for the DVC demand. Given the bad publicity and ill will this seems to be causing, it is doubtful it was designed to increase sales...especially as the older resorts are sold out.

 

[Chuck S]

Yikes! That sounds intimidating. If that is a possibility they are going to have to change their slogan to Welcome Home - but keep your opinions to yourself!

If you waltz up to a DVC in-park kiosk, while others are browsing, and tell people not to buy...what do you think would happen? Honestly, do you think any company would let you stand on their property to persuade their customers to not buy their products?

 

[baj0505]

If you waltz up to a DVC in-park kiosk, while others are browsing, and tell people not to buy...what do you think would happen? Honestly, do you think any company would let you stand on their property to persuade their customers to not buy their products?

I'll just wear my 'Ask me about DVC' button Disney gave me

 

[Cmbar]

In fact, I will bet that they made the change now because they want to print new sales information that includes 2010.

Probably true. We received the new Dream book this week but this book no longer has point charts in it. Every resort is there with their layout including the VGC and THV at SSR and of course BLT. In the back of the book they had two, 2009 chart sheets. One for BLT and one for AKV. The BLT chart had at the very bottom in small print: "This Vacation Point Chart is effective from the Resort Opening date, currently scheduled to be fall 2009, throught December 31, 2009."

Does anyone else have a BLT point chart that has that small print that was given to them prior to last week? Just curious. I also am hoping someone who took the tour recently would be able to tell us if the guides were telling the BLT customers that the points have changed for 2010. They did not highlight this in the literature or even indicate it except for this small print on the bottom of the chart. The same statement is not on the AKV chart.

Also in the back of the book they have this disclouse page with various disclosures such as "the top of the world isn't part of BLT and access can be terminated (which means it will)

But also for the AKV it states: "
Purchasers should not rely on the continued existence of, and access to, existing Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge Amenities, such as Savannas, Restaurants, and recreational facilities that are not part of membership."

Does this mean that AKV members won't have access to the lodge and their facilities? Does that mean they can't use the pool at the AKL?? Is this true for all the other properties like Beach Club and Boardwalk and Wilderness Lodge? What about BLT? Will I not be entitled to use the pool over at the Contemporary??

Wow it is scary when you read the fine print

 

[Chuck S]

But also for the AKV it states: "
Purchasers should not rely on the continued existence of, and access to, existing Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge Amenities, such as Savannas, Restaurants, and recreational facilities that are not part of membership."

Does this mean that AKV members won't have access to the lodge and their facilities?

It probably means that Disney can remove/remodel the lodge facilites/restaurants and Savannahs at will, they are not legally a part of DVC.

Just like at OKW, they can rename, retheme, remove or remodel Olivia's restaurant, and other non-DVC operated entities, like the General Store.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Heck, somewhere in the POS for AKV, there is a statement that says there are not guarantees that there will be animals in the savannahs. It's all there...at that point, I stopped reading. I figured it wasn't going to make a difference. If I wanted a "piece" of AKV, which I did, these were the conditions it would be under.

Bobbi