Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[manning]

As a matter of real estate law, anything spoken means nothing. Everything must be spelled out in the contract and is enforcable.

Everything that has taken place is legal and it is the responsibility of the purchaser to read and understand everything that is in the contract.

There are only three options an owner has here.

1. complain and hope there is an outside chance DVC will change their mind. And it will be a very outside chance if at all. (think if at all)

2. Continue as a member

3. Sell.

And to future buyers...read and understand the contract before signing. Anyone who tells you anything verbally means nothing. It is up to you to verify anything told you is covered in the contract before signing. There are only two options. Sign the contract or walk away.

 

[disneynutz]

I just computed the new point chart difference on our typical reservations. The point requirements increased by 33 points. That doesn't seem like much but at rental rate that's $363.00.

Multiply that, or any increase by 150,000 members and that's a big impact.

Many will want to buy more points, which substantiates my belief that Disney's reason for the change is to increase revenue.

 

[ashbradnmom]

I think this is not accurate- some rooms did increase in their annual allotment of points- because in some cases they took points from on room type and applied it to another, isn't that so?

It was still legal, the way they did it (assuming the charts are actually balanced) but I wanted to clarify or get clarification on that point. Some rooms did go up, I think.

I believe you are right, it should be the points for the entire resort can not increase, not a specific room. I might be wrong though but that was the way it was explained to me.

 

[toocherie]

I just computed the new point chart difference on our typical reservations. The point requirements increased by 33 points. That doesn't seem like much but at rental rate that's $363.00.

Multiply that, or any increase by 150,000 members and that's a big impact.

Many will want to buy more points, which substantiates my belief that Disney's reason for the change is to increase revenue.

But that reasoning doesn't take into account that for someone else the number of points required has gone down . . . . .

 

[disneynutz]

But that reasoning doesn't take into account that for someone else the number of points required has gone down . . . . .

Not for someone else, for other weekday/weekend patterns other than mine.

 

[dd08]

I just computed the new point chart difference on our typical reservations. The point requirements increased by 33 points. That doesn't seem like much but at rental rate that's $363.00.

Multiply that, or any increase by 150,000 members and that's a big impact.

Many will want to buy more points, which substantiates my belief that Disney's reason for the change is to increase revenue.

What makes this off is that not all members required points to vacation will go up.

For example our 2010 trip is now going to be ~7 points less than what it would have been via the old charts, I've seen other posts from members here who will have a smaller increase than 33 points and some who are like us and will have a decrease.....

The people hit hardest, as stated numerous times before, are the Sun-Thurs travelers.

 

[Dean]

What do you think about the reallocation in conjuction with the new waitlist? One person has already been told no w/l if there is an existing reservation. Not sure if that is true information or not (MS has been known to give out incorrect information before). But if that is the case, there is going to be one heck of a game of chicken at the 7 month window for those wishing to stay someplace besides their home resort.

Say even half of the previous Sun-Thurs. people continue their travel pattern (it will still maximize point usage), those same stays are using up more points, and at some point extra nights will be opening up as a result. Combined with the new restrictions on the W/L and I think the end result is more rooms open for booking after 7 months. I still wonder if an intended consequence of these two new combined "member enhancements" is to aid the sales team, that the incentives which include developer points are going to go way up and that there needs to be a way to use them (nothing says "Welcome Home" like no room at the inn you've just been promised).

Just trying to see why it behooves DVC to make these two changes at the same time and it seems there should be a logicistical connection.

I think we need more info as to how this will be implemented. I see no conspiracy theory looking at the two issues, I doubt they are related in any way.

To borrow a phrase from Dean, I think the only solution left is to 'Vote with your feet'. And I think DVC is fine with that too, as they feel they'll just sell your points to someone else.

Brings up some very interesting visuals doesn't it. Seriously, I hate the approach that if you don't like everything about DVC, sell. There was a very obnoxious DVC members on the OLD prodigy list who would blast you with that if you even questioned anything about DVC. However, this change may be negative enough that DVC no longer makes sense for them. It would be hard for me to envisions a situation where simply this change alone would cause that to be a valid approach but it could be the item that pushed some over the top.

I'm going to repeat a concept I said a couple of times on the long thread about the 7 day reservation change a few months ago. The same is true on this thread as on that one. You have a group of people who drank the koolade and wore the rose colored glasses that now have the jilted lover complex. They feel they've been betrayed and can no longer trust DVC. As the old timers know, I've not given DVC a pass on many things but I've never questioned their honesty and integrity as a company or timeshare that I recall and certainly not intentionally. I may have questioned the approach of certain individuals along the way including employees. IMO all these changes in the last year or two are reasonable though not necessarily preferable. The lapses in judgement (this timing, AKV unit assignment issues) are forgivable on a limited basis as long as corrective action is taken. However, the bottom line is that if you no longer feel you can trust DVC, it is time to get out and move on. It's one thing to disagree with the decisions but the element of character and trust is a much more important and fundamental issue, IMO.

 

[Dean]

I believe you are right, it should be the points for the entire resort can not increase, not a specific room. I might be wrong though but that was the way it was explained to me.

Technically the requirement is a "unit" which is a collection of rooms. The ONLY single room units I'm aware of are GV at VB and AKV, not sure about BLT.

 

[Maelstrom_]

I'm a Sun-Thur traveler...so I'm not liking this change. Yes, I know what the contract says...I just wish they didn't make this change. Oh well, just gotta move on. I think I now have to go a full week to get the max value out of my points. So I will just go less often, and stay a couple of days longer when I do go. I guess I'll save on airfare anyway...

 

[bobbiwoz]

Did the large discrepancy between weekend days and weekdays originate with the OKW point chart changes or were weekend points always nearly double weekday points?

Bobbi

 

[Chuck S]

Did the large discrepancy between weekend days and weekdays originate with the OKW point chart changes or were weekend points always nearly double weekday points?

Bobbi

In the original, pre-1996, OKW charts the weekend points were much than double the weekdays.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

. . . However, the bottom line is that if you no longer feel you can trust DVC, it is time to get out and move on. It's one thing to disagree with the decisions but the element of character and trust is a much more important and fundamental issue, IMO.

I think the real test on selling your DVC after these changes is two fold: first, with these changes, is DVC still the best way for your family to vacation at WDW? If not and you don't think that will change in the near future, you should sell.

Second, even if DVC still works for you, if you no longer trust DVC to do the right thing and you have a real concern that this will mean you cannot sell you points in the future at a reasonable price, then you should evaluate whether you will be adequately compensated in "vacation value" for the risk on selling later. By that, I mean that if DVC still works for you and it costs you $1000 less than any other acceptable vacation alternative, then you may want to sell if you think the value of your points will go down by $2000 a year and not sell if the value of your points will only go down by $500 a year.

This analysis only applies for someone who already owns at DVC. For a perspective buyer, I think the trust issue is more important and may trump the quesiton of whether owning at DVC is the best way for your family to vacation at WDW.

-- Suzanne

 

[Muushka]

We bought at VWL with the intention of always going at a certain time each year. Not only have the points gone up for the 1 BR, the season went up also. Great. We will now have to pay an additional 40 points for our vacation habits. And no way will we give DVC another dime for more points.

Cutting off my nose to spite my face? Probably.

Ticked? Yes, definitely.

Recommend DVC to others? No way.

 

[jekjones1558]

Muushka,
Way OT but LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your new signature!

 

[tjkraz]

I will give them that one, but they are past due for a few more explanations, heck I don't really want to them to have to back track and make an explanation, I want them to get it right in the first place.

If they truly need to make adjustments then handle it professionally, explain the reason and do it. It will go over a whole lot better than the slip shod way they have been doing things lately.

Other than housekeeping and maintenance issues I am satisfied with the product on the resort level, however I very disappointed lately in the way changes are presented to the membership. I might not agree with the changes all of the time and that is fine, but their delivery stinks.

Sorry if it seems like I'm riding you Sammie 'ole boy, but...well....maybe I am.

So what changes have occurred where communications were lacking? This 2010 reallocation was certainly lacking. The studio glass issue was a big FUBAR but DVC did admit fault on that one. What else?

I know some folks were openly cynical about the "due to member demand" comments regarding the booking windows...but look what happened. It actually worked and people really DO seem satisfied with the change!

I don't recall any big blips with the RCI change. Some were disappointed but if we're just looking at the manner in which things are presented, I don't recall any noteworthy issues.

Most announcements seem pretty routine: free Internet, expanded MS hours, booking windows for new resorts, new member discounts, booking categories at OKW, etc. We probably get a half-dozen new notices on the member website each month.

The policy changes that were made about 18 months ago (banking changes, $95 fee) were handled quite well with a full write-up in the member mag.

The roll-out of BLT sales was handled VERY well, IMO.

I still think there have been far more "hits" than "misses" if we want to keep score.

I think we also need to acknowledge that people's concept of "communications" has changed a lot over the last decade. Back in 1999 the website was never used for news releases (if it even existed.) Ten years ago, DVC's only avenue for "communicating" with members was a quarterly issue of Vacation Magic.

Fast-forward to 2009. Now if we aren't given answers to every intricate procedural question in the initial policy announcement, the immediate outcry is "communications are SORELY lacking!"

 

[Karamia]

My vacation is usually Sunday through Thursday at a villa and the weekends at a Value with free dining. I will still do that, and spend maybe one less day at DVC. To bring the whole family we need two rooms, so these increases are quite upsetting and I still won't stay at a villa on the weekends. I am going to watch the market now and consider selling.

 

[Inkmahm]

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Demand for that period is currently so high that I don't see bumping it up one or two seasons as driving demand from the current "95% booked 10 months in advance" to the point where there are vacancies.

September deserves to be in the lowest season because there are resorts which do not fill even after 11 months of reservations. Demand is just too low.

Early-December should not be in the same season.

I have to agree with you. I can't travel in September due to my work schedule but I wouldn't travel then anyway, it is just too HOT in Florida for me at that time of year. I do travel in early December because I love the decorations and MVMCP. I would agree, even though it would hurt me, that December should be higher points than September. I'd still travel then.

 

[Muushka]

Muushka,
Way OT but LOVE, LOVE, LOVE your new signature!

Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny, and stole it!

Yours for the taking!

 

[ashbradnmom]

Technically the requirement is a "unit" which is a collection of rooms. The ONLY single room units I'm aware of are GV at VB and AKV, not sure about BLT.

I agree with that Dean the way the OP put it was that a specific room could not increase in point over the year. The way that i took his comment was, for instance that this studio at ssr has to have the same point allocation as it did last year.

 

[Sammie]

TJ, I really do not want to get into a back and forth between just us, as we obviously disagree. I have already voiced my complaint to DVC.

Most announcements seem pretty routine: free Internet, expanded MS hours, booking windows for new resorts, new member discounts, booking categories at OKW, etc. We probably get a half-dozen new notices on the member website each month.

See to me the things they do that they know will be well recieved by the membership they do a good job of letting us know about it.

They definitely do a good job about anything that involves spending money with them.

But things that might not be well received by the membership, the $95 fee change, the banking changes, the removal of glassware, the lowering of water temps in pools, and this one, and I am sure there are others, that have slipped my tired mind, they seem to try to just slide it past us and hope we don't notice and put out that disclaimer of "due to member feedback".

I would suggest anyone that is unhappy with the change for whatever reason, be it the actual change or the manner in which it was presented, contact them.

I know they are reading here, but they really need to hear from us personally.

The one thing that I don't understand in this thread is that it does not bother me that some are glad about the change or don't even care one way or the other, but it does seem it bothers some that others are not happy with the change.