disney trying to get back the genZ boys

[OhDannyBoy]

So a female character isn't allowed to do ANYTHING at all. They can't participate in the action? Only the big strong men can rescue anybody! Why even have women...at all?

But, which male characters specifically have been denegrated, and to prop up a female character? People say that, but I just don't see it. SImply needing to be rescued is not a character flaw, nor does it diminish someone. Disney has certianly mad eplenty of movies too where the male is still the primary hero, so I don't get what the issue is.

I just responding to your question. Luke's character was dismantled to prop up Rey, as I said in the first place.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

Very excited to be relitigating this for the 100th time here.

Ehh fair enough, i kind of wandered into this and now wish i hadn't

 

[BrianL]

I just responding to your question. Luke's character was dismantled to prop up Rey, as I said in the first place.

Okay - except he wasn't dismatled. He stepped in to save the day. Sure, he went through some stuff to get there, but that's called drama. Happily Ever After is the end of a story - there's nothing more. If they wanted to tell more story, then they had to have more happen.

 

[Suger Mag]

Okay - except he wasn't dismatled. He stepped in to save the day. Sure, he went through some stuff to get there, but that's called drama. Happily Ever After is the end of a story - there's nothing more. If they wanted to tell more story, then they had to have more happen.

its funny, but that final Luke battle was one of my fav scenes... he was so badass, and the shoulder flick LOL. So much force power to do that feat and sadly his fans do not appreciate how much strength it took to accomplish that....

 

[BrianL]

its funny, but that final Luke battle was one of my fav scenes... he was so badass, and the shoulder flick LOL. So much force power to do that feat and sadly his fans do not appreciate how much strength it took to accomplish that....

I agree - it was awesome. It subverted expections in a good way. I didn't catch it at first, but I was wondering about the blue lightsaber. The real tell is the lack of footprints. I will say that maybe he didn't have to die from it - at least not immediatly, but I'm okay with it too.

Honestly, if he does come back to the fight for real, it's over but it becomes a Luke story instead of remaining focused on the new generation, which is what it needed to do. I know a lot of people really just wanted the Continuinng Adventures of Luke Skywalker and Friends, but they were about 30 years too late to actually make that.

 

[Suger Mag]

I agree - it was awesome. It subverted expections in a good way. I didn't catch it at first, but I was wondering about the blue lightsaber. The real tell is the lack of footprints. I will say that maybe he didn't have to die from it - at least not immediatly, but I'm okay with it too.

Honestly, if he does come back to the fight for real, it's over but it becomes a Luke story instead of remining focused on the new generation, which is what it needed to do. I know a lot of people really just wanted the Continuinng Adventures of Luke Skywalker and Friends, but they were about 30 years too late to actually make that.

I agree the first time I saw it, I thought he was really there and then I caught the salt footprints and of course the big reveal of him back on his island. He saved the day

 

[Smugpugmug]

Just to add my take on Last of Us as someone who has played the games (just replayed both 1 & 2) and watched the seasons. Season 1's focus was on the characters and the story as a whole, action was secondary. The change to lessen action and violence was not a big deal as the first game's theme focus was the characters and their relationship. Action heavy chapters like Bill's town or the tunnels in the game were not needed as these chapters don't really have an effect on the story or characters. The show could adapt their own episode revolving around Bill's town to focus on bringing more depth to the characters and enhancing the story. The main purpose of Bill's chapter in the game was to introduce some game mechanics (nail bomb, trip wire), the bloater and get a car to drive west. The game mechanics don't translate to live action and the bloater was introduced later in the show. This is an example where the show runners made a major change in the show that made the show better while not deviating from the theme of the game.

The second game's theme is the circle of violence and Revenge, i.e. Joel kills Abby's dad, Abby Kills Joel, Ellie Kills Abby's friends, etc. The first few episodes were good for the most part. The show lost some emotion from the story due to placing certain flashbacks in these early episodes and changing some timeline history. However, without the next seasons finishing their vision, I could live with those changes for now. The major problem I have with season 2 is Ellie's time and actions in Seattle. As smugpugmug stated, in the game she is a bloodthirsty monster. We see her decent into darkness happen over the course of the three days. The show condenses way to much into too few episodes and in return we are left with a product that does not dive into the characters or show Seattle as the battle zone between feuding groups like in the game. The season should have been 2-3 more episodes with each day in Seattle being an extra 20-30 mins to flesh out Ellie's violent nature and foreshadow more about the WLF taking down Fedra and their war with the Seraphites. Also, make Ellie competent. Why is she losing a 1v1 to a stalker in episode 1.

I am the only one in my group who watched the show that also played the game. Everyone else gave it a positive review and is very excited for season 3. I am much more neutral on it and I'll rewatch season 2 again. I would recommend to either play the second game or watch the cutscenes on Youtube over watching season 2.

Said it better than me and I agree with all of this. I was on my phone at the beach typing my initial reply so didn't want to write a novel. But for real, why is Ellie losing these fights in the show when she was like Rambo in the game LOL Game Ellie would easily beat Season 2 Ellie in a duel - the fight would be like 0.2 seconds long.



......oh this thread is the same boring argument about Star Wars. Yawn. Maybe that's why Gen Z men don't care lol

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

My daughter is GenZ and let me tell you. Many of her friends and her to some degree love anime, a lot more than Star Wars and/or Marvel.
So something failed bad and something didn't. And they all talk of the storylines so I'm betting that is more important than anything. Her friend made her watch two series 1 was air bender the other I do not remember. The airbender was not the one on tv here. They kept telling me that

 

[jade1]

its funny, but that final Luke battle was one of my fav scenes... he was so badass, and the shoulder flick LOL. So much force power to do that feat and sadly his fans do not appreciate how much strength it took to accomplish that....

I do agree with this. But we do appreciate how much strength it took- IT KILLED HIM.
The shoulder flick, the canons shooting him. You think you killed me, the jokes on you Kylo. Oh wait, I guess I am dead. Ha jokes on me now.

But the scene literally showed how good of shape Mark actually was. Not like Harrison and Carrie ( who had already passed b4 it was released). But nope, we wasted the primary OT legend still in good shape to appear in only one of the final 3 trilogy movies. 27 minutes out of 429 minutes. And his big accomplishment was never leaving his cave, and projecting a 5 minute look over here while you idiots go out the back so the hero can save you.

I will admit if they simply cut the 5 second scene where he disappeared, and gave him a real part and death in 9- I would have been far more impressed.

Or, raise his ship and be a man/hero in person.

I'm pretty sure he could have just told Leia telepathically to just go out the back. It's either that or force myself there for a few minutes and actually die.

I really had no problem with Rey, just why gut our hero.

1977 Poster.

 

[Suger Mag]

I do agree with this. But we do appreciate how much strength it took- IT KILLED HIM.
The shoulder flick, the canons shooting him. You think you killed me, the jokes on you Kylo. Oh wait, I guess I am dead. Ha jokes on me now.

But the scene literally showed how good of shape Mark actually was. Not like Harrison and Carrie ( who had already passed b4 it was released). But nope, we wasted the primary OT legend still in good shape to appear in only one of the final 3 trilogy movies. 27 minutes out of 429 minutes. And his big accomplishment was never leaving his cave, and projecting a 5 minute look over here while you idiots go out the back so the hero can save you.

I will admit if they simply cut the 5 second scene where he disappeared, and gave him a real part and death in 9- I would have been far more impressed.

Or, raise his ship and be a man/hero in person.

I'm pretty sure he could have just told Leia telepathically to just go out the back. It's either that or force myself there for a few minutes and actually die.

I really had no problem with Rey, just why gut our hero.

1977 Poster.

View attachment 997835

always interesting how different people can view the same thing and come to totally different conclusions

I thought his death was well earned and well played.

Anyhoo....

 

[BrianL]

I do agree with this. But we do appreciate how much strength it took- IT KILLED HIM.
The shoulder flick, the canons shooting him. You think you killed me, the jokes on you Kylo. Oh wait, I guess I am dead. Ha jokes on me now.

But the scene literally showed how good of shape Mark actually was. Not like Harrison and Carrie ( who had already passed b4 it was released). But nope, we wasted the primary OT legend still in good shape to appear in only one of the final 3 trilogy movies. 27 minutes out of 429 minutes. And his big accomplishment was never leaving his cave, and projecting a 5 minute look over here while you idiots go out the back so the hero can save you.

I will admit if they simply cut the 5 second scene where he disappeared, and gave him a real part and death in 9- I would have been far more impressed.

Or, raise his ship and be a man/hero in person.

I'm pretty sure he could have just told Leia telepathically to just go out the back. It's either that or force myself there for a few minutes and actually die.

I really had no problem with Rey, just why gut our hero.

But if Luke Skywalker, Super Jedi, showed up out of nowhere and wrecks the First Order, it would undercut the entire story, which is about the new generation. And that 's the thing, a lot of fans simply didn't want Star Wars to be about a new generation - or for a new generation. With that mindset, nothing ever would have satisfied that contingent.

Interesting that you conflate "man" and "hero" as if that's the only way it can be. If it makes you, just think that Chewie saved the resistance.