Disney set to invest $17B in Florida parks, opening door for 5th theme park

[Smugpugmug]

Which theme park, in your opinion, is considered luxuriously high class?

I think they're comparing a Disney vacation to a luxury type vacation, to which Disney is blatantly not a luxury experience. Unless I misunderstood what they're trying to say.

I do agree that Disney is not in any way luxury in terms of what they are offering in their parks.

 

[Minnie1222]

I think they're comparing a Disney vacation to a luxury type vacation, to which Disney is blatantly not a luxury experience. Unless I misunderstood what they're trying to say.

This is the part I don't understand. Disney provides a theme park experience, and for a fair comparison should only be compared to another theme park.

 

[Jrb1979]

This is the part I don't understand. Disney provides a theme park experience, and for a fair comparison should only be compared to another theme park.

I agree. IMO the reason so many compare it to Europe type vacations is that's what a lot of Disney guests view Disney as. The other is I have found is many don't visit other parks except for Disney/Universal, so they have nothing to compare it to.

 

[Minnie1222]

The other is I have found is many don't visit other parks except for Disney/Universal, so they have nothing to compare it to.

If they had visit other theme parks in the world, they wouldn’t think so lowly of Disney/Universal.

 

[Cfabar1]

I agree. IMO the reason so many compare it to Europe type vacations is that's what a lot of Disney guests view Disney as. The other is I have found is many don't visit other parks except for Disney/Universal, so they have nothing to compare it to.

It is compared to those vacations because of the cost - and in many instances the Europe type vacations can be done cheaper than Disney.

 

[Jrb1979]

If they had visit other theme parks in the world, they wouldn’t think so lowly of Disney/Universal.

Yes and no. The parks themselves are great parks my family did enjoy them. They are tops when it comes to theming. I personally think some of the European theme parks are almost as good as Disney and Universal.

Some US parks my family finds better value to visit. We find Dollywood a much better value. Price plays a part but you don't need to do a lot of planning to enjoy the park.

 

[Smugpugmug]

This is the part I don't understand. Disney provides a theme park experience, and for a fair comparison should only be compared to another theme park.

It's because of the price. You can do international trips with similar or even better accommodations for the same price or cheaper than Disney.

 

[akadada]

We just got back from DL. Disney is not remotely luxury, although it is very fun and we really like it.

Disney is expensive because it's basically trying to run city-level infrastructure and jobs while attempting at a high level guest experience. I think they did a good job overall, but it's just not cheap and it's hard to adjust. I think disney parks are in trouble because it's hard to go backward on prices, especially on food and goods. In a recession, folks will not be okay with these levels of pricing. Most aren't okay with it now.

When we were there, beer ranged from $14-$17 a cup. Pastries were $6-$10. Over $5 for a cup of coffee. A cheaply made DL Sweatshirt was $60 when adding tax. ice cream was $6-$12. Trading pins are $14+! Total downer for the pin trading plans for my son because he just didn't have the money to spend on it. In California, you then add another 10% +sales tax on everything!

I read somewhere that DL recently raised prices on food and goods. Anecdotally quoted as a $1-$3 here and there. Okay, so if you raise a pastry or ice cream from $5 to $6, that $1 is a 20% increase! That is not 3%-5% inflation. People don't notice a $1 here and there but when you add it up overall the things you buy it's a massive increase. Literally every time I pulled my credit card out I swear it was always over $50. It was nauseating, especially since none of those food or good items are remotely luxury.

Of course we bought some of those things, but we bought far less than we've ever bought in the past for souvenirs and food. We split meals. We also skipped entire meals opting for snacks that we picked up at the grocery store instead. We drank no soda/coffee at all, rather water and then used hotel coffee pods in the morning.

We did one nice restaurant (Napa Rose). We were admittedly dumb because we didn't review the menu prices before booking the restaurant. We assumed it would be pricey, but it was next level nuts. I couldn't stomach paying over $70-$80 for a steak. Even my kids were offended by the prices and they never look. We ended up just eating appetizers/salads, no main meal, but did get two glasses of wine and the kids got mocktails. The food and service was excellent, but it was still over $300 when adding tip! I could not believe it. Beyond that, average restaurants still ran up to $200 for four of us.

I think it cost about $1500 per day for us all in for five days staying at DL hotel without airfare or the car rental. That's just not affordable for most folks and those that do find a way to afford to go will eventually find that those levels of expenses to not be sustainable for the future. We really liked going and found the experience to be overly positive, but we also just can't return as much as we'd like or if we do, we have to budget far less time there.

And again, I don't see how Disney can back down from the price precedents they already established, so I see it becoming a downward cycle for them all while further departing from being remotely luxury. As much as we really liked the trip, I could go almost anywhere I want in the world and have an amazing time at $1500 per day including true luxury spots.

 

[tjkraz]

I read somewhere that DL recently raised prices on food and goods. Anecdotally quoted as a $1-$3 here and there. Okay, so if you raise a pastry or ice cream from $5 to $6, that $1 is a 20% increase! That is not 3%-5% inflation. People don't notice a $1 here and there but when you add it up overall the things you buy it's a massive increase. Literally every time I pulled my credit card out I swear it was always over $50. It was nauseating, especially since none of those food or good items are remotely luxury.

There's a more precise list of increases here: https://allears.net/2024/07/18/price-increases-hit-popular-disneyland-restaurants/

Most of the numbers they cite represent a 3-7% increase.

Of course we bought some of those things, but we bought far less than we've ever bought in the past for souvenirs and food. We split meals. We also skipped entire meals opting for snacks that we picked up at the grocery store instead. We drank no soda/coffee at all, rather water and then used hotel coffee pods in the morning.

Everything you describe has been happening for decades. While at DL, you were surrounded by 50,000 other people who were also eating snacks from home, sharing meals and only occasionally buying a new shirt. Disney doesn't even have the restaurant capacity to serve every guest 2-3 meals per day. We've traveled across the country 6-8 times to visit Disneyland and have never eaten at Napa Rose. Every night, those restaurants only host a tiny fraction of the number of guests visiting the parks or staying at a nearby Disney hotel. Napa Rose doesn't need to be affordable to the masses--it only needs to cater to a few dozen parties per night.

Disney theme park visits are absolutely expensive. And they always have been. Unless you're a local with an Annual Pass, the average family probably does have to save up several years to be able to afford one visit. I'm not sure that has really changed over time. Back in the 70s and 80s, did any of us know families who traveled long distances to visit WDW or DL every year, much less multiple times per year?

Disney has run this cycle many times over the years. Most noteworthy were the travel lull after 9/11/2001 and the 2009 "Great Recession", both of which impacted vacation spending for at least a couple of years. In both cases, Disney played the discount game and generally kept the hotels and parks full. If restaurant demand sags or they need to move some merch, they will temporarily increase the discounts for Passholders or DVC members. When hotel occupancy declines they've done similar discounts, sometimes expanding to Disney+ subscribers.

Like the economy, tourism is cyclical. Right now, theme park tourism is a bit down. During the last quarter, Disney reported that its domestic park revenues were up 3% but profits declined 2%. That's a reflection of the discounting. But it's not just rebellion against Disney and its prices. Universal, Cedar Fair, Six Flags and others all reported declines compared to the prior year. And they'll all bounce back when inflation subsides, new attractions open, international airfare continues to rise, people tire of whatever alternative plans they are pursuing now, etc. Post covid "revenge travel" drew a lot of infrequent visitors to Disney destinations. Many can't afford or don't want to come back year-after-year. But it will come around again.

 

[BrianL]

There's a more precise list of increases here: https://allears.net/2024/07/18/price-increases-hit-popular-disneyland-restaurants/

Most of the numbers they cite represent a 3-7% increase.



Everything you describe has been happening for decades. While at DL, you were surrounded by 50,000 other people who were also eating snacks from home, sharing meals and only occasionally buying a new shirt. Disney doesn't even have the restaurant capacity to serve every guest 2-3 meals per day. We've traveled across the country 6-8 times to visit Disneyland and have never eaten at Napa Rose. Every night, those restaurants only host a tiny fraction of the number of guests visiting the parks or staying at a nearby Disney hotel. Napa Rose doesn't need to be affordable to the masses--it only needs to cater to a few dozen parties per night.

Disney theme park visits are absolutely expensive. And they always have been. Unless you're a local with an Annual Pass, the average family probably does have to save up several years to be able to afford one visit. I'm not sure that has really changed over time. Back in the 70s and 80s, did any of us know families who traveled long distances to visit WDW or DL every year, much less multiple times per year?

Disney has run this cycle many times over the years. Most noteworthy were the travel lull after 9/11/2001 and the 2009 "Great Recession", both of which impacted vacation spending for at least a couple of years. In both cases, Disney played the discount game and generally kept the hotels and parks full. If restaurant demand sags or they need to move some merch, they will temporarily increase the discounts for Passholders or DVC members. When hotel occupancy declines they've done similar discounts, sometimes expanding to Disney+ subscribers.

Like the economy, tourism is cyclical. Right now, theme park tourism is a bit down. During the last quarter, Disney reported that its domestic park revenues were up 3% but profits declined 2%. That's a reflection of the discounting. But it's not just rebellion against Disney and its prices. Universal, Cedar Fair, Six Flags and others all reported declines compared to the prior year. And they'll all bounce back when inflation subsides, new attractions open, international airfare continues to rise, people tire of whatever alternative plans they are pursuing now, etc. Post covid "revenge travel" drew a lot of infrequent visitors to Disney destinations. Many can't afford or don't want to come back year-after-year. But it will come around again.

Right - and Disney is also pursuing the proper course of building new things NOW, when demand is soft. That's one way to help get it back up and ensure that you can handle the demand once it bounces back. A lot of the money guys don't like that because it will look rough on paper short-term, but in the end it will be for the best.

 

[zackiedawg]

Luxury wouldn't be the right word, but Disney vacations can be indulgent and relaxing. Few people travel to Disney resorts that way, but some do, and it can be done. Not having any young kids myself or with any close family, and often traveling with friends, my Disney trips are definitely different than the typical family trip.

Trying to maximize value at the accommodations, trying to plan and schedule daily itinerary, spend maximum hours in the parks, cram as many rides in as possible, economizing on food wherever possible, etc. - the way many families do Disney - ends up often being a harrying, tiring experience, still feels too expensive, and creates too many disappointments and frustrations when crowds, lines, costs, etc exceed expectation and planning.

My typical Disney trips involve staying in nice, roomy 1-bedroom DVC villas, sleeping in a bit and avoiding rope-drops, breakfast in the villa, visiting other resort restaurants and bars, taking the slowest, most relaxed transportation options and routes possible (boats are preferred, then skyliner/monorail, then bus). I don't do any park planning, no Genie/Lightning stuff...loose strolling around the parks, and if standby waits are reasonable, pop onto a ride, enjoy drinks & cocktails around the parks, head to various resorts for dinner, usually at a nicer or higher-end restaurant, enjoy some live music, a late evening bar or two, back to the villa...repeat the next day.

It's all about relaxing, not planning, enjoying food and drinks, boating on the lakes, visiting resorts and taking in the theming, lots of walking but not at ankle-breaking pace trying to rush to the next ride. Luxurious? Not quite. But indulgent and relaxing - absolutely. In my rare visits to other theme parks, I haven't gotten that same mix - they don't seem to have the diverse theming, the diverse transportation, not to mention the size and sprawl to have so many parks and resorts spread all around, with so many restaurants and bars and entertainment options. For me at least.

 

[akadada]

In both cases, Disney played the discount game and generally kept the hotels and parks full. If restaurant demand sags or they need to move some merch, they will temporarily increase the discounts for Passholders or DVC members. When hotel occupancy declines they've done similar discounts, sometimes expanding to Disney+ subscribers.

Many can't afford or don't want to come back year-after-year. But it will come around again.

Good points. To be clear, we'll definitely go back, it was really fun, but not as soon as I'd like unless my work sends me out there again.

I just have an anecdotal memory from doing WDW every year when my kids were little (8-12 years ago). It "felt" much more affordable. We would stay at Yacht/Beach as well.

We started doing Universal for 3-4 nights and it was this past December significantly less expensive (Staying at Portofino) overall.

The spread of Disney-type-inflation v. real world wages I think is the issue. Maybe Disney is just doing things they've been doing for a long time, but real wages "Feel" like they're not keeping up. That's part of my point. I think Disney might be a tough spot because of that. Might be hard to pivot other than discounts (or bringing back food plans).

 

[Elijah Abrams]

We just got back from DL. Disney is not remotely luxury, although it is very fun and we really like it.

Disney is expensive because it's basically trying to run city-level infrastructure and jobs while attempting at a high level guest experience. I think they did a good job overall, but it's just not cheap and it's hard to adjust. I think disney parks are in trouble because it's hard to go backward on prices, especially on food and goods. In a recession, folks will not be okay with these levels of pricing. Most aren't okay with it now.

When we were there, beer ranged from $14-$17 a cup. Pastries were $6-$10. Over $5 for a cup of coffee. A cheaply made DL Sweatshirt was $60 when adding tax. ice cream was $6-$12. Trading pins are $14+! Total downer for the pin trading plans for my son because he just didn't have the money to spend on it. In California, you then add another 10% +sales tax on everything!

I read somewhere that DL recently raised prices on food and goods. Anecdotally quoted as a $1-$3 here and there. Okay, so if you raise a pastry or ice cream from $5 to $6, that $1 is a 20% increase! That is not 3%-5% inflation. People don't notice a $1 here and there but when you add it up overall the things you buy it's a massive increase. Literally every time I pulled my credit card out I swear it was always over $50. It was nauseating, especially since none of those food or good items are remotely luxury.

Of course we bought some of those things, but we bought far less than we've ever bought in the past for souvenirs and food. We split meals. We also skipped entire meals opting for snacks that we picked up at the grocery store instead. We drank no soda/coffee at all, rather water and then used hotel coffee pods in the morning.

We did one nice restaurant (Napa Rose). We were admittedly dumb because we didn't review the menu prices before booking the restaurant. We assumed it would be pricey, but it was next level nuts. I couldn't stomach paying over $70-$80 for a steak. Even my kids were offended by the prices and they never look. We ended up just eating appetizers/salads, no main meal, but did get two glasses of wine and the kids got mocktails. The food and service was excellent, but it was still over $300 when adding tip! I could not believe it. Beyond that, average restaurants still ran up to $200 for four of us.

I think it cost about $1500 per day for us all in for five days staying at DL hotel without airfare or the car rental. That's just not affordable for most folks and those that do find a way to afford to go will eventually find that those levels of expenses to not be sustainable for the future. We really liked going and found the experience to be overly positive, but we also just can't return as much as we'd like or if we do, we have to budget far less time there.

And again, I don't see how Disney can back down from the price precedents they already established, so I see it becoming a downward cycle for them all while further departing from being remotely luxury. As much as we really liked the trip, I could go almost anywhere I want in the world and have an amazing time at $1500 per day including true luxury spots.

Maybe once a new CEO takes over?