Disney Senate investigation

ok disney doent fill out the paperwork. they contrzcted with a third party who handles all of it. is is right? no but if they are going to investigate disney they need to check out silicon va,,ey and most fortune 500 companies in the us. Most major firm's IT departments these days are staffed with foreign workers. and have been for over a decade. so don't just point the finger at diseny. BTW chrysler and GM did it big time when they were rescued by the governemt. they laid off nonunion workers and replaced them with foreign workforce.
 
While I don't think the a Senate hearing will do anything but line the members pockets with cash from the various companies that do this, maybe the noise from the public may help bring more attention to it and start to change things. This is not just a Disney issue, its many companies.

Support US jobs and protect your own job!

AKK
 
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While I don't think the a Senate hearing will do anything but line the members pockets with cash from the various companies that do this, maybe the noise from the public may help bring more attention to it and start to change things. This is not just a Disney issue, its many companies.

Support US jobs and protect your own job!

AKK
Your right about the noise Skipper but have you heard or seen anything from the major broadcast companies. I can understand nothing from ABC but the others? My only answer to that is they must all be doing the same thing!
 

The H-1B program is nothing but a corporate welfare program plain and simple. I have to laugh when I read that there are still people that believe the politicians when they spread the equine fertilizer that you can only get H-1B visa workers if there are no Citizens or green card holders able to do the work. This is patently false! I own a software development firm and there is not a week go by that one of the many "insourcing" firms does not contact me with the pitch for getting visa holders to replace my "overly well paid" developers. Step 1 - contract out your development to a specialized firm and now you can lay off EVERYONE with no questions asked. Step 2 - offer your most talented former employees temporary contracts to train the new H-1B employees (technically of the consulting firm) to do their former jobs. Step 3 - bank tons of extra money because you don't have to pay nearly as much and you aren't on the hook for benefits. The contracting firm will typically be from another city and won't have to advertise locally to fill the jobs. In my case, small company with 10-14 employees depending on orders, I can save nearly 50% plus I don't have employees who expect time off or other benefits. If they complain I let them go (technically they are the employees of the consultant but I can fire on a whim) and their visa (read: right to live in the US) is gone.

What is really damaging in the long term about companies (my never will) that do this is that the people just getting into the field can't get entry level jobs, those jobs all go to the visa holders or the job actually gets sent to India (or the Phillipines or...). Without entry level jobs how are people going to grow into top talent? It is easy to find a script jockey who can write simple utilities to sort data or create reports but it is getting harder and harder to find truely great coders who can write elegant efficient code because folks in DC put the rest of the world in front of them in the job line. You don't get to the point of being excellent without working in the real world and learning what works and what doesn't and this phenomenon of bringing in low skilled IT from other countries is making that pretty near impossible. But watch the politicians line up in front of the chamber of commerce and business round table for donations and you can predict who will year in and year out say that we don't have enough IT workers and need more H-1B visas.
 
The H-1B program is nothing but a corporate welfare program plain and simple. I have to laugh when I read that there are still people that believe the politicians when they spread the equine fertilizer that you can only get H-1B visa workers if there are no Citizens or green card holders able to do the work. This is patently false! I own a software development firm and there is not a week go by that one of the many "insourcing" firms does not contact me with the pitch for getting visa holders to replace my "overly well paid" developers. Step 1 - contract out your development to a specialized firm and now you can lay off EVERYONE with no questions asked. Step 2 - offer your most talented former employees temporary contracts to train the new H-1B employees (technically of the consulting firm) to do their former jobs. Step 3 - bank tons of extra money because you don't have to pay nearly as much and you aren't on the hook for benefits. The contracting firm will typically be from another city and won't have to advertise locally to fill the jobs. In my case, small company with 10-14 employees depending on orders, I can save nearly 50% plus I don't have employees who expect time off or other benefits. If they complain I let them go (technically they are the employees of the consultant but I can fire on a whim) and their visa (read: right to live in the US) is gone.

What is really damaging in the long term about companies (my never will) that do this is that the people just getting into the field can't get entry level jobs, those jobs all go to the visa holders or the job actually gets sent to India (or the Phillipines or...). Without entry level jobs how are people going to grow into top talent? It is easy to find a script jockey who can write simple utilities to sort data or create reports but it is getting harder and harder to find truely great coders who can write elegant efficient code because folks in DC put the rest of the world in front of them in the job line. You don't get to the point of being excellent without working in the real world and learning what works and what doesn't and this phenomenon of bringing in low skilled IT from other countries is making that pretty near impossible. But watch the politicians line up in front of the chamber of commerce and business round table for donations and you can predict who will year in and year out say that we don't have enough IT workers and need more H-1B visas.
Well said. You are absolutely right about this being corporate welfare. This is basic supply and demand only it applies to employment. Companies heavy with IT staff just don't want to pay the rate that the job demands.
 
gsimpson: I agree!

I have worked in IT for over 25 years. When all the outsourcing started, I was also concerned about how most US comp sci majors were going to get entry level jobs and what that would mean when looking for experienced people such as technical leads a few years later. I definitely did not encourage my child to go into computer science in part due to outsourcing. My company outsourced the bulk of IT about 8 years ago, and has brought over 85% of it back.

Although it is anecdotal...I have several tech lead/tech manager job postings open right now, that due to regulations in my industry, require US citizens. I am receiving little to no resumes. I believe that it is mainly due to people avoiding the field due to outsourcing, so we are not 'growing' our own US talent for more senior positions (although I have not researched to validate my opinion). I am also located on the East Coast in a tight IT job market so that also is a factor, but I am discounting it somewhat because I would still expect to get applicants but have to compete for good talent with salary/location/benefits.
 
The H-1B program is nothing but a corporate welfare program plain and simple. I have to laugh when I read that there are still people that believe the politicians when they spread the equine fertilizer that you can only get H-1B visa workers if there are no Citizens or green card holders able to do the work. This is patently false! I own a software development firm and there is not a week go by that one of the many "insourcing" firms does not contact me with the pitch for getting visa holders to replace my "overly well paid" developers. Step 1 - contract out your development to a specialized firm and now you can lay off EVERYONE with no questions asked. Step 2 - offer your most talented former employees temporary contracts to train the new H-1B employees (technically of the consulting firm) to do their former jobs. Step 3 - bank tons of extra money because you don't have to pay nearly as much and you aren't on the hook for benefits. The contracting firm will typically be from another city and won't have to advertise locally to fill the jobs. In my case, small company with 10-14 employees depending on orders, I can save nearly 50% plus I don't have employees who expect time off or other benefits. If they complain I let them go (technically they are the employees of the consultant but I can fire on a whim) and their visa (read: right to live in the US) is gone.

What is really damaging in the long term about companies (my never will) that do this is that the people just getting into the field can't get entry level jobs, those jobs all go to the visa holders or the job actually gets sent to India (or the Phillipines or...). Without entry level jobs how are people going to grow into top talent? It is easy to find a script jockey who can write simple utilities to sort data or create reports but it is getting harder and harder to find truely great coders who can write elegant efficient code because folks in DC put the rest of the world in front of them in the job line. You don't get to the point of being excellent without working in the real world and learning what works and what doesn't and this phenomenon of bringing in low skilled IT from other countries is making that pretty near impossible. But watch the politicians line up in front of the chamber of commerce and business round table for donations and you can predict who will year in and year out say that we don't have enough IT workers and need more H-1B visas.

Yes thank you for sharing this. I want to add in a perspective that hasn't been discussed in all there discussions yet- the highly skilled foreign tech worker

The kind like the instagram co founder who had such issues getting a visa to finish working. The kind like all of the students graduating from top tech programs such as Stanford or MIT and then this top talent is shipped back home because they did not win the visa lottery. The kind, like my husband, who are extremely successful in their fields in their countries and want to bring their talent to the states (silicon valley tech scene is quite some steps up form Austria..), turn down multiple job offers (with salaries of 150k plus) such as Amazon- chose a company to go with (because these companies are looking for good tech workers and willing to pay them) and then did not get to start said great job because of the H1B visa lottery (we were not picked).

Why is such an important program that is supposed to enable highly skilled, entrepreneurial, US advanced degree holding workers to enter and stay in the US such a mess? Why is it even a lottery when these people have job offers?

IT consultancy firms. Firms which sponsor cheap labor from India (oftentimes letting these workers pay them to sponsor them!! Highly illegal! These workers will also put in multiple entries so as to have a better shot) by the thousands. My husband even got cold e-mails from IT consultancy firms offering to sponsor his H1B just based on his linked in. They offer salaries which probably sound good to someone from a third world country, but not to someone who has actually been to SF! But hey, it's technically an entry level salary so it's allowed. Obviously he told them where they could go. The work offered was temporary contractual work. This was not a set up for an immigrant that would stay and contribute to the country in a significant way (the idea of the H1B program no?), no no. It was corporate welfare.

Meanwhile, the legit US tech companies: FB, Google, etc. all have built or are building offices in Europe so that their tech hires/ current workers (yes! that happens!) have a place where they can still work of the company because they are growing too fast and need their skilled workers! Instead of expanding a US office as the company grows, the work goes overseas.

The Europe office of my husband's company opens this week. Only 20% of the employees they applied for visas for got them. One was even an employee that had studied in the US and was doing an internship there and is now getting sent home. Can try again in a year.

It's ridiculous and infuriating. I buy local as much as possible here at home. I support local jobs and growing local businesses- it is best for me in the long run. I feel for all of my American friends as the country is missing out on top talent and shooting itself in the foot with all of the abuse of the H1B program going on. Disney should be ashamed for being a part of it. Walt is certainly turning in his grave. We will probably sell our stock.
 
Apparently the American workers in this case were capable of doing the job, since they were required to spend several months training and supervising their immigrant replacements to make sure that the replacements did the job exactly as they did previously.

And the pay and benefits of the visa workers are a lot lower than the Americans they replaced. Allegedly.

The issue is, if there were American workers available and if the visa workers are not paid the going rate for American workers, then why were attestations made to the contrary? Usually it's a serious offense to make written attestations to the gummint that are false. If that happened in this case, and it looks like a really blatant breach of the law, then Disney is bound to get beat up a bit, by public opinion and media opinion, if not by the courts.

I say, "if not by the courts" because legislators have a habit of letting really large corporations skate if their legal infractions are very widespread and very long term ... look at the robo-signing scandal ... Disney may have told themselves, "If we get caught we'll just point at defense contractors XYZ and PDQ, and the congress will step in and retroactively legalize everything we've been doing."

I think what is going on is that Disney is outsourcing in the sense that they are now getting an outside company to do the IT work and not employees. They do this to bring down costs. The new company in charge of the IT workers does not have to pay them what Disney pays it's workers. It is whatever the new company's salary range is. I think that the new company would be the ones getting the visas and this is how Disney is getting around it. It may be legal but it is unethical.
 
I think what is going on is that Disney is outsourcing in the sense that they are now getting an outside company to do the IT work and not employees. They do this to bring down costs. The new company in charge of the IT workers does not have to pay them what Disney pays it's workers. It is whatever the new company's salary range is. I think that the new company would be the ones getting the visas and this is how Disney is getting around it. It may be legal but it is unethical.

It's no defense under the law to cause a law to be broken by another party. That I believe is what is called "conspiracy" ... and "racketeering" when it's done on a large scale.

That doesn't mean however that Disney is in legal jeopardy. If the government decides that they're not unhappy with large companies conspiring to break federal immigration laws, and apparently they have been for years and years, then you're not going to see any prosecutions take place. At worst, if there is a public outcry, they will pass a law to retroactively legalize the lawbreaking, conspiracy and racketeering offenses. Like they did for Foreclosure-gate.
 




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