Disney Riviera Resort

[lockedoutlogic]

They could go high end hotel, without fussing with themeing. Service, amenities, this is uncharted I could be down for such...depending on a ton of factors.

Not gonna happen...disney doesn't pay for service.

 

[amberpi]

Not gonna happen...disney doesn't pay for service.

Yeah, I know. Stay at the Swolphin to get the best of both.

 

[tjkraz]

That shouldn't hold for "better" locations...wilderness lodge has been typically hard to get.

It's simple math. There are 1,021,430 points worth of Copper Creek rooms in the timeshare program. DVC has sold 126,913 points. All Copper Creek owners combined could not book all of the rooms at 11 months if they tried.

I don't think the grand Floridian was "available" at 7 months...

Yes, it was.

 

[AnnaKat]

Won't potential DRR buyers discover the better value of buying BCV resale for 1/2 the buy/in cost of DRR?!?!

BVC resale could skyrocket!!!!!!
AND those BCV resale buyers could gondola over to DRR,
enjoy drinks & apps @ the new DRR rooftop restaurant & check out the fireworks view,

AND be pleased as punch with their Storm along Bay after seeing the plain, unexceptional DRR pool.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's simple math. There are 1,021,430 points worth of Copper Creek rooms in the timeshare program. DVC has sold 126,913 points. All Copper Creek owners combined could not book all of the rooms at 11 months if they tried.

Maybe we are on two different wave lengths..

Recently looking on and after 7 months..:wilderness was available when beach, contemporary, grand, boardwalk had dried up.

I found that surprising

 

[sachilles]

On the top 5 floors facing that side.

The rest get to watch the hustle and bustle at CBR.

I don't disagree, but it's the same with any building with a "fireworks" view. You hope the rooftop bar/rest offer view for the common folk.

 

[tjkraz]

Won't potential DRR buyers discover the better value of buying BCV resale for 1/2 the buy/in cost of DRR?!?!

BVC resale could skyrocket!!!!!!

Like most timeshares, DVC thrives on the uninformed buyer. DVC resale rates are much better than most. You could get a typical Bluegreen or Westgate timeshare for literal pennies resale while the developer is selling "new" for $20k.

Specific to Beach Club, any ownership purchased now is only valid for about 24 more years. And that impending RTU means the value will eventually decline to zero. Riviera should be 50 years from opening if Disney follows past practice. Yes it will cost more but it will also hold its resale value well.

Your financial planner will tell you that paying $100 per point for 24 years is a better value than $175 for 50 years due to the time value of money. But it's not as much of a rip-off as some may think. By January 2042, BCV contracts will be worthless. Riviera owners should still have 28 years of ownership remaining.

Maybe we are on two different wave lengths..

Recently looking on and after 7 months..:wilderness was available when beach, contemporary, grand, boardwalk had dried up.

I found that surprising

Those other locations are all mature, "sold out" destinations with a full compliment of owners taking advantage of their 11 month rights. Copper Creek is not. I wouldn't expect a brand new location (opened 5 days ago) with few owners to be booked at a similar pace to GF or Beach Club. Check back in about 3 years to see what owners think of Copper Creek as an 11-month destination.

But specifics also matter--dates, room sizes, etc. I just checked week of MLK holiday in January 2018. 6 months away. Copper Creek has nothing available for the full week. Can't get more than 2 consecutive nights in a Studio, 1b, 2b or grand villa. Boardwalk and Boulder Ridge (old VWL) both only have One Bedroom villas available. Nothing at Grand Floridian or Beach for the full week.

 

[danikoski]

That shouldn't hold for "better" locations...wilderness lodge has been typically hard to get. I don't think the grand Floridian was "available" at 7 months...and the poly was a miscalculation based on an overreaction for the grand Floridian.

If the buzz for wilderness was high...it would be booked at 7. But there was an old, much cheaper block (which I bet has killed their attempts to get legacy owners to buy more...), and they strip the wilderness out of WL and built white Hyatt rooms...

CCV are also same points as BRV. Yet BRV rooms are in many ways better laid out because they weren't crammed into former hotel rooms. Also the studios at BRV sleep 5, whereas CCV only sleep 4.

I think Disney missed the mark on CCV. They could have built the cabins and made them 3 bed grand villa and satisfied the need. Instead they frankensteined half of a beautiful lodge. If you can't tell, I'm a little bitter about half the hotel rooms going away.

Oh, and the price per point for CCV was bit ridiculous, especially when you can get resale of BRV for significantly less.

 

[danikoski]

I'm guessing point wise DRR will fall between BRV/CCV and SSR/OKW.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm guessing point wise DRR will fall between BRV/CCV and SSR/OKW.

That's the $176 question and we are early into speculation...

 

[Grumpy6264]

CCV are also same points as BRV. Yet BRV rooms are in many ways better laid out because they weren't crammed into former hotel rooms. Also the studios at BRV sleep 5, whereas CCV only sleep 4.

I think Disney missed the mark on CCV. They could have built the cabins and made them 3 bed grand villa and satisfied the need. Instead they frankensteined half of a beautiful lodge. If you can't tell, I'm a little bitter about half the hotel rooms going away.

Oh, and the price per point for CCV was bit ridiculous, especially when you can get resale of BRV for significantly less.

I don't think you will see the price per point go down, with the exception of special offers.

The point per night requirement will be different, and could be less that a more desirable resort. If the price per point were less that the going rate, people could buy more points with the intent of using them at a different resort. If there are enough points available at a lower price per point, it could through the system out of balance, somewhat.

 

[tjkraz]

CCV are also same points as BRV. Yet BRV rooms are in many ways better laid out because they weren't crammed into former hotel rooms. Also the studios at BRV sleep 5, whereas CCV only sleep 4.

For the first 15-ish years of its existence, Boulder Ridge studios only slept 4. The resort "sold out" under those terms. It wasn't until about 2 years ago that they were retrofitted for 5...a move that many owners were not pleased with.

I agree there are some idiosyncrasies about Copper Creek which would make Boulder Ridge a better fit for our family. If we were trying to book either at 7 months, Boulder Ridge would be the preference. But buyers will evaluate the two with a different eye. Copper Creek studios are the same footprint as a WL hotel room, albeit with different furnishings.

IMO the Studio part is fine and the master suite portion of the 1b/2b is very nice. But the living room & kitchen area is a turnoff. Size of party will probably influence overall opinion. We usually have kids sleeping in the living room when booking those larger villas, making it less than ideal. Others who have their party staying exclusively in the bedrooms probably won't mind changes to the living space as much.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Won't potential DRR buyers discover the better value of buying BCV resale for 1/2 the buy/in cost of DRR?!?!

Why? They haven't been in the BCV resale market before. I worked in timeshare briefly years ago. Most first-time timeshare buyers know little to nothing about resale. Going to a sales presentation for DRR won't prompt most of them to research resales.

Others who have their party staying exclusively in the bedrooms probably won't mind changes to the living space as much.

Yup. Precise floor plan from DVC to DVC is not a concern to us at all.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

CCV are also same points as BRV. Yet BRV rooms are in many ways better laid out because they weren't crammed into former hotel rooms. Also the studios at BRV sleep 5, whereas CCV only sleep 4.

I think Disney missed the mark on CCV. They could have built the cabins and made them 3 bed grand villa and satisfied the need. Instead they frankensteined half of a beautiful lodge. If you can't tell, I'm a little bitter about half the hotel rooms going away.

Oh, and the price per point for CCV was bit ridiculous, especially when you can get resale of BRV for significantly less.

The strong speculation is that the occupancy fell to roughly 50% at wilderness lodge. All those things you list are great...but nothing else actually matters.

 

[Capang]

I'm guessing point wise DRR will fall between BRV/CCV and SSR/OKW.

There is no way Disney, knowing what they can now charge and get away with, will use those point values. This will be top dollar, top point DVC. Even if it shouldn't be.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There is no way Disney, knowing what they can now charge and get away with, will use those point values. This will be top dollar, top point DVC. Even if it shouldn't be.

Again...the big questions...and what to watch.

I'm not so sure you're correct on this one.

 

[Capang]

Again...the big questions...and what to watch.

I'm not so sure you're correct on this one.

I hope I'm not correct. I just don't see Disney building something they can charge less than the old stuff they already have. This is one time I wouldn't mind being wrong.

 

[amberpi]

The strong speculation is that the occupancy fell to roughly 50% at wilderness lodge. All those things you list are great...but nothing else actually matters.

If occupancy at WL fell, why did they double down and build more DVC there, or was it a pure conversion? I'm just thinking there are plenty of people like me you couldn't pay to stay there. I've tried twice at DL and stayed at GC because the location was so good. Now I stay down the road at the Hilton. While Napa Rose is excellent, the theming turns some people off, but of course, tons of people on the Dis LOVE it. Different strokes. I'm just not surprised to hear that they had too many rooms at WL. Would love more info.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

If occupancy at WL fell, why did they double down and build more DVC there, or was it a pure conversion?

Hotel occupancy was low. DVC points sales are like printing money and provide maintenance cash via dues.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If occupancy at WL fell, why did they double down and build more DVC there, or was it a pure conversion? I'm just thinking there are plenty of people like me you couldn't pay to stay there. I've tried twice at DL and stayed at GC because the location was so good. Now I stay down the road at the Hilton. While Napa Rose is excellent, the theming turns some people off, but of course, tons of people on the Dis LOVE it. Different strokes. I'm just not surprised to hear that they had too many rooms at WL. Would love more info.

It was pure conversion...and dvc is near 100% guaranteed occupancy with probably 1/4 the staffing requirements once sold...

Like fishing with dynamite

Edit: it wasn't pure conversion...they built tepees on the water...

But that is an investment worth their time too...they market it like they are providing "luxury accommodations"...and some use them as such...but the point charge per night allows them to sell thousands and thousands of extra points that get dumped into the pool and sell many smaller contracts which create a higher volume of travelers staying in studios, ones and twos off those points sold and spend more, eat more...and when they see the crowds...drink more.