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[KMovies]

This just in...

Motel 6 has decided to buy the value resorts.

Now, everyone can sing their praises are these are the best darn Motel 6 locations in the world.

These will be the first Motel 6's to offer a shuttle to the theme parks - so that is another positive.


They'll be just like the Swan and Dolphin, non-Disney owned but on Disney property.

Since Disney will no longer make as much money off the Value Resorts, they are going to up the prices of the other resorts to make up for the loss of income. I don't see that as a problem.

New names

Motel 6's Movieland Resort
Motel 6's Sportsland Resort
Motel 6's Musicland USA Resort
Motel 6's Pop Centuryland Resort

They'll be keeping the light on!

 

[YoHo]

Bear, Disney certainly did get some guests from offsite, but the internal rumors have pretty much stated that what really happened is that the mods and even more so the Values caused regular onsite guests to drop down to save money.

That's what the info out of burbank says as I remember it.

 

[minnie61650]

Bear, Disney certainly did get some guests from offsite, but the internal rumors have pretty much stated that what really happened is that the mods and even more so the Values caused regular onsite guests to drop down to save money.

That's what the info out of burbank says as I remember it.

Maybe some did but if that were truley case the deluxes would be half empty and that just is not the case.

There was a poll a few months ago on the resorts board about which type of resort
DIS'ners stayed at.

From this thread:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1470258


about 8% stayed at the values
about 24% stayed at the mods
about 58% stayed at the deluxes


Taking a brief look at these figures (if they truly represent the current numbers of rooms rented at Disney) it looks like 3 times as many guest stay at the mods than stay at the values.

The Values have a total of 8,324 rooms.
All Star resorts = 5,664 rooms and Suites
Pop - 2,660 rooms

The Mods have 7,089 rooms
CBR has 1,921 rooms
CSR has 1,921 rooms and Suites
POFQ has 1,008 rooms
POR has 2,048 rooms

So the value resorts have 1,235 more rooms than the mods but the mods are used by 3 times as many guests.

No wonder All Star Music and All Star Sports are often more than half empty during the slow times of the year.

If this truly represents the general public than it may be a long time before
Disney finishes the other half of Pop.

JMHO

 

[KMovies]

Some guests may have dropped down from the Mods to the Values ...

Since most resorts run at capacity, those that moved down to Values were replaced with other guests at the Mods.


Let's say a movie theatre has one show time 7:00 PM which would sell out.

They add another show at 9:00 PM. Some of the 7:00 PM people will go to the 9:00 PM show but that is fine since there are more guests that then have the 7:00 PM option available to them.

If the plan backfired, why would Disney then add All Star Movies and the Pop Century?

Gosh, we had people move from Mod to Value and we didn't want that. OK, let's add more Value then?????????????????

 

[EUROPACL]

This just in...

Maybe you missed the question before or you just don't have a good answer but I'll try again.

In your eyes is this place magic too??

http://www.nickhotel.com/

 

[YoHo]

For 2 reasons.
1: More values means more potential for offsite people moving over.
2: complete change in strategy. Focusing on regulars rather then the more general population (that think the regulars are kinda creepy) means adding more low cost options....at least until they realized that the regulars would get sucked into DVC which gives them even better up front profit. Hence the reason Pop was never finished.

 

[minnie61650]

For 2 reasons.
1: More values means more potential for offsite people moving over.
2: complete change in strategy. Focusing on regulars rather then the more general population (that think the regulars are kinda creepy) means adding more low cost options....at least until they realized that the regulars would get sucked into DVC which gives them even better up front profit. Hence the reason Pop was never finished.

....


I think one of the main reasons Pop was never finished was because of 9/11 and the downturn in tourism.

This was published in June 2006 from this website:
http://www.mouseplanet.com/articles.php?art=eo060630bb
After the strong success of the All Star Resorts, it became clear to Disney management that more "value level" resort capacity at Walt Disney World would be a good investment. Having more inexpensive rooms on-site would bring more customers through the gates to stay for longer duration visits, rather than staying off site at the chain motels on the 192 and International Drive strips.
Construction for the new Pop Century Resort, began in late 1999 and continued at a steady, if not breakneck, pace for almost two years.
Located just South of Caribbean Beach Resort off of Victory Way, the new resort was expected to be the perfect place for sports teams to stay while competing at various tournaments at the nearby Wide World of Sports. The influx of amateur softball and baseball teams, cheerleading and dance squads, and fans of the Atlanta Braves (who make Wide World of Sports their Spring training home base) would certainly fill this new resort's rooms as soon as it was built.
Then came the tragedy of 9/11. As our nation mourned the loss of heros and innocent civilians to the dastardly attacks on New York and Washington (not forgetting the patriots on the flight that "failed" it's mission when it crashed in Pennsylvania), going on vacation to visit Mickey Mouse became much less important. More families stayed home or took shorter, local trips for vacation in the two years or so that followed.
Without the need for the extra capacity, construction on the Pop Century Resort buildings was put on hold and the buildings were mothballed. It wasn't until late 2003, just in time for the Christmas holiday week in fact, that the Classic Years (depicting the 1950s, '60s, '70s, '80s, and '90s) half of the resort opened. The Legendary Years (depicting the decades from 1900 through 1940) remains incomplete and unopened with no published plans for completion.
---------------------------------------------------------

 

[minnie61650]

There's a difference behind decoration and themeing. Decoration means you throw in artificats to remind people of place -the taxi cab, the giant hats, the giant piano. Taco Bell does the same thing with their restaurants. Decoration is an intellectual connection between what you're looking at and the idea the designer is trying plant in your mind.

But real themeing makes you feel your in another place. It's a gut feeling to - that sudden sense of familiarity, that feeling that "this is what I thought it would be like". It requires all your senses, not just what you see. It's the russle of the palm fronds, the smell of the flowers, the rolling meandering paths that make the Polynesian different - not a eighty foot tiki doll.

Imagine the real Disney Broadway resort - the steam seeing out of the manhole overs, the glittering lights from the signs, the offstage background music of a rehersal in a closed theater, the smell of the fresh hot hogs from the cart on the corner.......


I don't want them to be "better than Motel 6" - I want them to be "Disney".

When I go to Disney I want a resort that makes me feel like I am staying at Disney.
I don't want a resort that transports me to Africa, the Beach, New England, SS, or even Hawaii, or Mexico.

If I want to feel like I am in Hawaii I will go to Hawaii.
Same goes for the Beach, New England, SS., Mexico even New York.

Yes, All Star Music has artifacts to remind me of Broadway -the taxi cab, the giant hats, the giant piano.
It makes me feel like I am at a Broadway theater where the stage has been set or in a Disney Movie Fantasyland.
When I arrive at All Star Music and see those artifacts and the icons and the decorations I get the biggest smile on my face.
I know I am at Disney!

 

[Another Voice]

When I go to Disney I want a resort that makes me feel like I am staying at Disney.

What in heaven's name does "staying at Disney" mean?

Sleeping in a store? Surrounded by merchandise and brand labels? How does one stay "at" a marketing enterprise?

You must really, really hate the parks then. Surrounded by all those castles (I'd go to Europe), all those rocket ships (Cape Kennedy is so much cheaper), those animals (I'd go to a zoo - those lions don't even talk like they do in the movies!).

And how do you even set foot in a value resort. What's "Disney" about Broadway. I mean - it's a taxi and it's not even from Cars! How stupid is that! And the Sports All Star, Disney hasn't owned the Ducks and Angels for years so quick - rip those non-Disney resorts out!

Like I said - the "lifestyle brand" concept is very strong with some people. But normal adults really don't need to sleep on Mickey Mouse sheets with Pixar wallpaper to have a good time. Very few people have dreams of running naked through the World of Disney Store - they have normal dreams of the future or the past or of far away and exotoc lands.

Meeting those is what the Real Disney is all about.

 

[DancingBear]

I'm sure 9-11 affected the Pop development, but given that attendance was trending downward before 9-11, and the huge numbers of rooms that they shut down over that time period, I believe it's pretty clear that Disney got ahead of themselves in even commencing construction there.

Minnie makes an interesting observation about how empty some of the All-Stars often are. Of course I understand that we really don't have reliable occupancy rates broken down by resort.

 

[diznyfanatic]

There's a difference behind decoration and themeing. Decoration means you throw in artificats to remind people of place -the taxi cab, the giant hats, the giant piano. Taco Bell does the same thing with their restaurants. Decoration is an intellectual connection between what you're looking at and the idea the designer is trying plant in your mind.

But real themeing makes you feel your in another place. It's a gut feeling to - that sudden sense of familiarity, that feeling that "this is what I thought it would be like". It requires all your senses, not just what you see. It's the russle of the palm fronds, the smell of the flowers, the rolling meandering paths that make the Polynesian different - not a eighty foot tiki doll.

Imagine the real Disney Broadway resort - the steam seeing out of the manhole overs, the glittering lights from the signs, the offstage background music of a rehersal in a closed theater, the smell of the fresh hot hogs from the cart on the corner.

Or take a look at the what Disney did with the Cheyenne Resort at Euro Disney. You all but see the tumble weed roll down the street.

I'm not saying people are dumb for liking the All Stars - what I am saying is that Disney should have done so much more. It's what the company is based on, it's what's driven the company to it success. The values are servicable for inexpensive lodgings and no one should be ashamed to stay there.

But they could have been amazing and not cost Disney a single dime more. It's Disney's lack of confidence, their lack of effort and most of all their lack of faith in us, the guests, that keep them from being great. I don't want them to be "better than Motel 6" - I want them to be "Disney".

Bolding in above quote is mine.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but thank you for the information on the Cheyenne Resort at DLP. We've never really looked at these resorts as we've no future plans to travel there, but this resort looks amazing and as you describe, that you can almost see the tumbleweeds!

Just curious, as I know nothing about the DLP resorts, but what budget classification is the Cheyenne considered? Is it equivilent to a Value, Moderate or Deluxe, or is it a whole 'nuther classification altogether?

 

[EUROPACL]

When I go to Disney I want a resort that makes me feel like I am staying at Disney.
I don't want a resort that transports me to Africa, the Beach, New England, SS, or even Hawaii, or Mexico.

If I want to feel like I am in Hawaii I will go to Hawaii.
Same goes for the Beach, New England, SS., Mexico even New York.

You must have hated your stays at the Contempary, CBR, Dolphin, Disney Inn and FW.

 

[KMovies]

Europacl -

I would say that many kids find the Nick hotels "magic" - its all about their favorite characters on Nick.

I'm sure that some people don't see the Magic at the theme parks, long lines, overpriced food, not enough thrill rides - but most find a lot of Magic.

There is "Magic" at those value resorts. I think the value resorts are built more for kids and families and the deluxe resorts more for adults. I feel that may impact whether people love or hate the value resorts.

Some people feel Epcot is the best park - others the worse park. It's just what appeals to one that makes you go either way.

 

[EUROPACL]

Europacl -

I would say that many kids find the Nick hotels "magic" - its all about their favorite characters on Nick.

I'm sure that some people don't see the Magic at the theme parks, long lines, overpriced food, not enough thrill rides - but most find a lot of Magic.

There is "Magic" at those value resorts. I think the value resorts are built more for kids and families and the deluxe resorts more for adults. I feel that may impact whether people love or hate the value resorts.

Some people feel Epcot is the best park - others the worse park. It's just what appeals to one that makes you go either way.

You're avoiding the question..and I know why...the simple answer is NO. There is no "magic" at that place in your eyes either....and it renforced something that AV has said before you take anyone of the All-Stars or Pop and place it on I-drive or outside the gates and the Disney Fanatics will hate the place and talk about how cheap it is and dosen't have the Disney "magic".

 

[minnie61650]

You must have hated your stays at the Contempary, CBR, Dolphin, Disney Inn and FW.

I never said I hated any of those places. The values were not even built when I stayed at those resorts and they were all nice resorts and each of them had their own pluses.
I would love to stay in tower room with a MK view again. Since my last stay I became disabled and I need a room with a roll in shower.
The only HA MK views rooms at the CR are club level.
We have no interest in club level. I am hoping a new tower where the north wing was and that more HA rooms will be available.

I do love the Dolphin and whimical theaming of the Swan and Dolphin hotels.
Plus they have 4 star service and I can use my starwood points there.

Just my 2 cents

 

[EUROPACL]

I never said I hated any of those places. The values were not even built when I stayed at those resorts and they were all nice resorts and each of them had their own pluses.
I would love to stay in tower room with a MK view again. Since my last stay I became disabled and I need a room with a roll in shower.
The only HA MK views rooms at the CR are club level.
We have no interest in club level. I am hoping a new tower where the north wing was and that more HA rooms will be available.

I do love the Dolphin and whimical theaming of the Swan and Dolphin hotels.
Plus they have 4 star service and I can use my starwood points there.

Just my 2 cents

How could you enjoyed your stay at those places without feeling like you were "at Disney"? That is why you go to Disney after all....as you said.

 

[Another Voice]

but what budget classification is the Cheyenne considered? Is it equivilent to a Value, Moderate or Deluxe, or is it a whole 'nuther classification altogether?

At Euro Disney, the Cheyenne and the Santa Fe are considered the "lower end" resorts. The idea of a four, five, six day "vacation" is unheard of in France. Generally people either go to a tourist destination for a single day - or they go for a month. The American style fly-in vacation is rather rare (but things have been changing in the last twenty years).

There really isn't a good translation for "motel" - you have places to stop at while travelling, but once you're at your destination you're either staying at a luxorious hotel (for the rich) or in a room or condo-like accomidation because you'll be there for weeks.

At WDW, these places would probably be very much in the "Value" category - they have no pool (this is Paris after all), and a large central area with a food court and a shop. The rooms generally are of value size - two twins or a queen with bunk beds.

In fact, we should have already been able to stay in this very hotel. The "Disney Decade" plans called for the 'Buffalo Junction' resort (a lift from they Cheyenne) to be built linking the Wilderness Lodge with Fort Wilderness itself.

 

[Demosthenes]

What frustrates me about the value resorts, is not the execution. It is just plain wrong to say that they are no different than a Motel 6; they really are substantially better. However, the values feel like a first draft that somehow never got the next re-write.

If I was imagining the values, they would have been quite a bit different. You could achieve the same style of accommodations, the same number of rooms, and the same number of personnel needed to maintain and operate them, it would have just taken more land. I would have built all of the hotels in on Disney's Route 66. The resort would have featured multiple restaurants (even - God forbid - outside vendors) that would have stretched along the "highway." Each hotel would have been the standard motel you see in so many old towns and and cities along abandoned bi-ways. They would have required one check in agent to man the reception desk. That person would act as a guest relations and check-in agent for their specific "hotel." Each "hotel" would feature 15-20 rooms. Each "hotel" would not necessarily have a pool, though a you could share with other "sister" hotels, which would be close enough to walk to. The resort would stretch on for quite a bit, but the theme would be immersive. I'm a deluxe guy, who would have lined up to stay in that place. Instead of giant Rubik's Cubes, imagine "Dew Drop Inn" signs with flashing neon and no vacancy signs. Imagine gift shops made of old service stations. Both sit-down and fast food restaurants (Disney branded and non-branded). The cost is low, the theme is great.

Ok, so the idea looks good in my head, and doesn't come out very well while writing it, but I really think it could have worked. That is more like the theme I would expect from Disney. I just hate to see a star pupil earn low marks; that is what Disney has done with the values.

 

[ChrisFL]

Pleae allow me, for once, to not take the high road on this issue. I usually like to choose my words carefully, to show what how much thought I put into my opinions, but this time I can't do it.

Specifically about Pop Century.... because honestly I haven't see enough of the All-Star resorts to have an opinion.

To be quite honest, I think Pop Century could have been "designed" by a 5 year old. The amount of sheer tackiness is mind-blowing.

The Dictionary should have a picture of Pop Century right next to the term "Gaudy".

Whoever had the idea to slap up 20 foot tall catch phrases in pastels and glitter should be....well I can't say it, but it should be painful.

The other classic Disney resorts, like the parks, easily show the dedication to the idea of what they're trying to accomplish, the place they're taking you to.

Pop Century screams from every square foot of its exterior that it is a mess of randomly placed massive artifcacts of decades past. I cringe whenever I see it as Im driving by.

I remember the outrage when it wasn't finished yet and the thought that people who had any sense wouldn't be caught dead admitting staying there, but I was wrong. Yes, people do stay there and take pictures and tell all of their friends, but to me, it's like Disney deciding to put up the world's largest ball of string in the middle of main st. Sure, people would take pictures with it, proud of the moment and tell their friends, but that still doesn't mean it belongs.

 

[diznyfanatic]

At Euro Disney, the Cheyenne and the Santa Fe are considered the "lower end" resorts. The idea of a four, five, six day "vacation" is unheard of in France. Generally people either go to a tourist destination for a single day - or they go for a month. The American style fly-in vacation is rather rare (but things have been changing in the last twenty years).

There really isn't a good translation for "motel" - you have places to stop at while travelling, but once you're at your destination you're either staying at a luxorious hotel (for the rich) or in a room or condo-like accomidation because you'll be there for weeks.

At WDW, these places would probably be very much in the "Value" category - they have no pool (this is Paris after all), and a large central area with a food court and a shop. The rooms generally are of value size - two twins or a queen with bunk beds.

In fact, we should have already been able to stay in this very hotel. The "Disney Decade" plans called for the 'Buffalo Junction' resort (a lift from they Cheyenne) to be built linking the Wilderness Lodge with Fort Wilderness itself.

Thanks for the additional information. I didn't know that much about the Disney Decade plans, so I've dug a little to find some information as our two favorite WDW resorts are Wilderness Lodge and Animal Kingdom Lodge so I was intrigued by your mention to link the WL to the proposed Buffalo Junction.

Here is a tidbit from the DIS dated May 30, 2005, that outlines some of what was planned for Disney Decade. It's interesting to compare the proposals vs. the reality:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=826756

This was the title of an Orlando Sentinel article from 9/7/1992.

I thought it would be interesting to compare what was planned vs. what happened.

Here is a rundown of the article:

1. Construction of the Boardwalk was on hold (after originally being planned for a summer '92 opening)(& it was originally planned to have a carousel & Ferris Wheel on the Boardwalk).

2. An Andrew Lloyd Webber entertainment show was planned.

3. Boardwalk was also planned to have a 900 seat "Little Mermaid" dinner show.

4. All suite "Mediterrenean" & "Buffalo Junction" hotels for the Boardwalk area were on hold.

5. Work on the 3800 room All Star resort was begun.

6. Wilderness Lodge construction has been moved up from to '94 from the mid-late 90's.

7. Recent DVC start up has done so well that an expansion is planned.

8. MGM Studios expansion is 18 months behind schedule.

9. Tower of Terror development is moving forward with a 1994 opening planned.

10. Plans for a replica of Walt's original Hyperion Studio is now "possible" instead of "probable"

11. The re-development of Tomorrowland is "now under evaluation", after having originally been planned for 1996.

12. Disney has postponed for 2 years the development of a 2 million SF shopping mall.

13. Disney still plans to build "The workplace", a 3.5 million SF center where visitors can see a product being made, & also have single & multifamily housing.

14. Progress is described as "slow" on adding Russian & Swiss pavilions to WS & "Journeys in Space" in FW.


This article also notes that the recent opening of Splash Mountain was "desperately needed", having been the first major attraction at the MK since Thunder Mountain opened in 1980. Analysts state (are you listening, Mr. Iger) that addnig a ride or park is the SUREST WAY TO BOOST ATTENDANCE.

Kind of interesting to look at the future as itr appeared a few years ago.

No real point to be made, just thought it would be appreciated here.