Disney pulls funding for Boy Scouts over LGBT Ban

[disney1990]

Thank you Disney.

 

[EMom]

I think that you are missing the point, probably deliberately.
To recap: the BSA are rightly castigated for discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation.
A previous poster points out that the BSA still discriminates against people because of their religious persuasion.
In response another poster says tough, if you don't like it then start your own organisation.
My point is that the Scouting movement was not set up as a religious organisation that taught woodcraft, survival skills etc but, rather, it was an organisation that taught woodcraft, survival skills etc against the background of the religious norms of its day. Those norms have changed although perhaps more slowly in America. When Scouting began, atheism was unusual and disparaged. Homosexuality was illegal. Fast forward a hundred years and homosexuality is, quite rightly, no longer discriminated against in most western countries but you seem to tolerate discrimination on grounds of personal belief.

I was a cub scout and scout in the 50s and 60s in England and there was no mention of religion whatsoever other than the pledge which was repeated parrot fashion. I find it hard to envisage the BSA spending time even discussing religion let alone "instilling" it. That is not the purpose of scouting and, in my opinion, any troop that did so would not be fit for purpose.

The fact that the BSA made and, apparently, still make belief in a monotheistic religion a compulsory requirement (and probably only one of those would really pass muster) is a form of discrimination.


ford family

It is a private organization and as such, can include/exclude people based on certain criteria. That is their right.

Disney is free to donate money or not. That is their right.

 

[delyrium]

And if you are happy to be an atheist, why worry about "outing" your family?

I'm going to treat this as a sincere question, rather than a dig. Have you read any of the statistics on how atheists are perceived in this country? This article links to a study where religious people were about as likely to trust a rapist as an atheist. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-distrust-atheists-as-much-as-rapists/250005/

 

[NEDisneyFans]

Their ban on atheists is just as wrong

"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."[4]

Was not aware of this -- thanks for making public.

 

[lauradis]

I do not see it wrong to ban atheists as it's a somewhat religious based organization. How can leader instill religion when they do not believe in religion. I find it strange that an atheist would even want to join the group. You would think they would want to start their own boys organization for their own way of thinking. Something with a motto excluding religion. Only makes sense, unless it's just to prove a point.

As a religion org BSA why would the support the gay movement when the major of org religion is against it?

 

[Planogirl]

I applaud Disney for doing this but I also support the BSA's right to set their own rules. I don't like their rules but that doesn't matter.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

To me it's funny that anyone would support BSA's rules. Would they still support them if BSA decided to exclude Black men, or Muslim men, or men who didn't make a certain income?

 

[lauradis]

Hmmmm.... I'm not sure about this. People don't choose what they believe, really.

we are born into what religion our parents choice.

All the core religions still preach being gay is a choice.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

we are born into what religion our parents choice.

All the core religions still preach being gay is a choice.

This could not be more untrue.

 

[Planogirl]

To me it's funny that anyone would support BSA's rules. Would they still support them if BSA decided to exclude Black men, or Muslim men, or men who didn't make a certain income?

A private organization can set their own rules as distasteful as we might find that. See the Klan for a horrible example. That is a basic right and not something that we can do anything about unless we do what Disney did. Don't support them financially which normally makes a big difference.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

A private organization can set their own rules as distasteful as we might find that. See the Klan for a horrible example. That is a basic right and not something that we can do anything about unless we do what Disney did. Don't support them financially which normally makes a big difference.

As we just learned in Arizona, we are very close to making great strides against the rhetoric that private organizations get to do whatever they want!

 

[Missy1961]

we are born into what religion our parents choice.

All the core religions still preach being gay is a choice.

"All" the core religions? I don't think that's true. At all.

 

[lauradis]

This could not be more untrue.

Which part born into

Or core religions still don't support gay movement.

 

[delyrium]

What is a core religion?

 

[Planogirl]

As we just learned in Arizona, we are very close to making great strides against the rhetoric that private organizations get to do whatever they want!

What exactly are you referring to? The law that was vetoed? There is a difference between a place of business and a private club. At least for now.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

What exactly are you referring to? The law that was vetoed? There is a difference between a place of business and a private club. At least for now.

For now, right. Changes are happening.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Being an atheist is a choice, being gay is not. It's not discrimination. The BSA today is very broad in its religious "requirements" - our Cub Scout book said something along the lines of "whatever your family believes." But it does still have a faith component, at least in the U.S.

And if you are happy to be an atheist, why worry about "outing" your family?

I completely disagree. I was raised as a Catholic. Even as a young child I knew that I did not believe in what I was being taught. I questioned everything...respectfully, but to the complete frustration of our parish priest ...and I always thought that the religious stories made no sense (my opinion only).

I did not choose to abandon a faith. I never had it to begin with. Just because I was raised in a certain church it does not mean that I was of that faith. Each person needs to look at his/her own beliefs and find the path that is right for him/her. It may be the path set out by his/her parents, and it might not. Some may continue to follow the path set out for them, even though they don't fully believe, and some may not. Outside factors can certainly influence what path a person takes but, internally, each person knows where their own beliefs lie.

I was going to respond to the idea that being an atheist is a choice but MouseMomx2 beat me to it, saying everything that pretty much sums up my childhood experiences with religion to a T. The only thing I would add is if someone thinks belief is a choice then they should try changing their beliefs for a day -- Commit to believing in Zeus, Thor, Shiva, etc. I'm sure that person would find it impossible to truly believe in another deity. That's because beliefs are felt, not chosen.

As for why an atheist would be concerned about 'outing' themselves? Fear of discrimination, potentially exposing themselves to violence, or being shunned by their family and/or community. I live in Maryland, a state that is progressive on many issues and where I'm comfortable telling anyone that I'm an atheist. But even here, in this liberal state, discrimination against atheists remains. I am barred, per the state constitution, from holding public office, serving on a jury, or being seen as a credible witness. I can only imagine how much worse it would be for an atheist in other parts of the country where liberal attitudes aren't so prevalent.

 

[Chin Chin]

The BSA do not advertise themselves to boys and families who want to join as a religious org, and they hold their events in public schools and on public grounds. They present the appearance of being a wholesome, all-American group that every boy should want to be a part of, and yet they discriminate. I don't feel particularly excited about my son being in a special group for nonbelievers. The Boy Scout troop in our area takes special measures to be inclusive, and a good portion of the boys in our community are involved, but the organization as a whole doesn't want us as members. It sucks that I have to basically out our family as atheists when my son inevitably is asked why he won't join.

We are Atheists and my one son is an Eagle Scout. My son likes camping and hiking. The Boy Scouts provide this and many other activities for him to do with other boys.

 

[DawnM]

No, not missing any point, at least not on my end.

I think that you are missing the point, probably deliberately.
To recap: the BSA are rightly castigated for discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation.
A previous poster points out that the BSA still discriminates against people because of their religious persuasion.
In response another poster says tough, if you don't like it then start your own organisation.
My point is that the Scouting movement was not set up as a religious organisation that taught woodcraft, survival skills etc but, rather, it was an organisation that taught woodcraft, survival skills etc against the background of the religious norms of its day. Those norms have changed although perhaps more slowly in America. When Scouting began, atheism was unusual and disparaged. Homosexuality was illegal. Fast forward a hundred years and homosexuality is, quite rightly, no longer discriminated against in most western countries but you seem to tolerate discrimination on grounds of personal belief.

I was a cub scout and scout in the 50s and 60s in England and there was no mention of religion whatsoever other than the pledge which was repeated parrot fashion. I find it hard to envisage the BSA spending time even discussing religion let alone "instilling" it. That is not the purpose of scouting and, in my opinion, any troop that did so would not be fit for purpose.

The fact that the BSA made and, apparently, still make belief in a monotheistic religion a compulsory requirement (and probably only one of those would really pass muster) is a form of discrimination.


ford family

 

[TLSnell1981]

It is a private organization and as such, can include/exclude people based on certain criteria. That is their right.

Disney is free to donate money or not. That is their right.

To me it's funny that anyone would support BSA's rules. Would they still support them if BSA decided to exclude Black men, or Muslim men, or men who didn't make a certain income?

I support their right to make their own rules. We don't all beat the same drum.