Disney Planning Robot Dinosaur at Theme Park

[scooby-the-doo]

This is from the imdb's newswire:

The Walt Disney Imagineering division plans to introduce an untethered "audio-animatronics" dinosaur at one of the parent company's two California theme parks, Disneyland or California Adventure, next spring, the Orange County Register reported Saturday. Imagineering vice chairman Marty Sklar described the introduction of the robotic dinosaur as "a real groundbreaking experience."

If the apparant ability to turn out some new 'ground breaking' audio-animatronic means that the reported huge cuts to the Imagineering division were not as drastic as originally thought, then this is good news.

 

[daber]

If this is true, then it would be one way to bolster attendance at California Adventure, but then they'd have to add a La Brea tar pits area.

 

[raidermatt]

Hmmm, I guess this makes Jeff Goldblum's line in Jurassic Park outdated... ("Yeah, but when the PoC breaks down the Pirates don't EAT the customers...")

OCRegister

'Dinosaur' will roam free in Disney park
Imagineering's first Animatronic figure to walk will interact with visitors.
By MICHELE HIMMELBERG
The Orange County Register

ANAHEIM – Walt Disney Imagineering has brought us birds that sing, pirates that wink and presidents that stand to greet us. Now, it plans to introduce the first walking Audio-Animatronic figure in a theme park.

An as-yet unnamed dinosaur will begin roaming through a designated area of either California Adventure or Disneyland this spring, said Marty Sklar, vice chairman of Imagineering. This will be the first test of untethered Audio-Animatronics and the next phase in Imagineering's quest to increase interaction with visitors.

Disney created Audio-Animatronic figures and has used them in attractions since 1963, beginning with birds in the Enchanted Tiki Room. But this will be the first one that's not fixed to a spot. An unseen operator will guide the dinosaur's movements, allowing it to respond to guests.

"That's the magic," Sklar said. "When people see, hear and touch this character, it will be a real groundbreaking experience."

The character doesn't talk, but can respond with movements. Some of its potential antics are eating popcorn, "stealing" a guest's hat and sneezing.

Imagineers have long dreamed about walking Animatronics, but it took technology a while to catch up with their creative minds.

The first Animatronic figures, called A-4s, could turn and open their mouths to be synchronized with music. The next phase, called A-100s, had more real-life movement and were used in Pirates of the Caribbean and "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln" at Disneyland, where the figure stands and talks to the audience. But none have been able to directly interact with visitors.

Always coy about its "magic," Disney declined to talk about how the dinosaur works. But a neuroscience professor with experience in robotics said Imagineers would have confronted issues with software to help the creature stay balanced as it walks. Robotics experts also have been searching for the right kind of spongy material to mimic muscle tissue and make movements less jerky.

A robotic figure on four legs is more common, said Thomas Fikes, of Westmont College in Santa Barbara, because "it's incredibly hard to get a biped to walk." They tip over easily and can't self-correct when they lose balance.

"We do have things that move around on their own," Fikes said. "But if (Imagineers) have something that's relatively autonomous - if there aren't 40 people in the background pulling switches like the Wizard of Oz – and if they can give it some very general commands like walk this direction, or surprise that kid, that would be pretty amazing."

That's the intent. Children expect a higher level of interactivity in entertainment in today's era of video and computer games, said Don Goodman, Imagineering president.

"The way kids play changes the way we see things," Goodman said. "It takes a lot more to wow kids today."

Disney chose a dinosaur because children are so fascinated with them, Sklar said, plus "it's a large enough character to get their attention."

 

[Dznefreek]

There was a brief look at an untethered animatronic on the Travel Channels "Secrets of Imagineering." It was very slow moving and very "mechanical." They did mention their goal was to have it be fluid in its movements.

 

[Bob O]

If it works well it sounds like a great idea!!!

 

[WDWHound]

Nice to know that Mr Sklar is still able to push through some truly creative projects like this one. Even if the movement for this first attempt is a bit jerky, its a ground breaking show element. This is the sort of thing Disney should be pursuing more often.

 

[wdwguide]

Sounds like an advanced version of the talking trashcan-type entertainment.

 

[Terry S]

As mentioned in the earlier post, they hinted of this in the Travel Channels "Secrets of Imagineering" show when they were showing the audio-animatronics segment, they specifically said, "Don't be surprised to see a robot dinosaur walking around the park soon".

 

[Mr D]

But why DCA of all places?
Is this the future of Disney, anything new has to go to DCA only and not to WDW?
To stray a bit off topic if there was any resort that should be sold or managed to an outside company it should be DCA, our family was last at DL two years ago, WDW last year, did plan a cruise this year but cancelled everything when we heard about everyone getting sick.

I still cannot convince myself that DCA will ever be Disney quality, even if it had a name change, interacting dinos, or whatever duct taped and renamed ride they put in, Eisner went out of his way to make it as cheap as possible s. All he did was to flimflam us with his "carnival", and thats EXACTLY what DCA is.
So whats the marketing strategy behind a cruising dino in DCA? Buy sunglasses?

It would have been a much better idea to have it at WDW at DAK, at least it would fit in with the theming.
With MS coming in with a real barnburner of a ride it makes us more interested in a return trip, with anything else its even better.

 

[Another Voice]

Now before anyone gets out of joint, all the following is based on nothing but rumors and the grapevine. So believe what you will and ignore at your own peril. This is subject to change. Your mileage may vary.

The “autonomous” figure concept has been around for a long time (decades in fact) and been the pet project of a few people. And it’s really not all that innovative, it’s simply a giant mechanical effect and they’ve been used in movies for a long time. Even back to the original ‘Jurassic Park’ movies have been employing more-or-less autonomous figures.

And “autonomous” doesn’t mean the Robbie the Robot, wander the park on its own, thinking kind of robot thing either. Basically the figure is a giant parade float that can follow a guide path (think the ‘Universe of Energy’ control system) and with a whole bunch of people with radio controllers to move things (eyes, breathing, etc.). Again – it’s your basic movie special creature effect. Instead of being on camera this one was to be in the park.

Now while this is non-cutting edge tech and already used by a lot of people that doesn’t mean that it’s cheap. Money does not go to anything in Disney without a definite plan to make more money back. For a long time the people at WDI have known the easiest way to get funding was to tie it to a new movie. Eisner hates the parks but he likes the movie.

So you have this really wonderful idea, what movie do you tie it to? The first concept was ‘Dinosaur’. It was supposed to be Disney’s mega-colossal hit, to bring in untold riches and to thrust Disney to the forefront of computer animation. So WDI quickly went about building a dinosaur. Well, except that in all the rush to buy computer companies and build walking figures, someone forgot to buy a script. The movie flopped (to use the Hollywood technical term – it ‘cratered’). All things related to ‘Dinosaur’ were immediately shelved to avoid corporate embarrassment. So WDI’s creation/idea lingered in limbo. It was the highlight of secret tours, the topic of whispers, and even made a brief TV appearance.

Then another dinosaur related project appeared – ‘Dinotopia’! Another source of funding!. The miniseries was did so-so ratings (but that’s good for ABC these days) and a whole series was on the way. Salvation! Except the series was dismal failure and cancelled faster than ‘Push, Nevada’. Back into the closet goes the beast.

But this is where corporate politics come in. Now suppose, just for the sake of the story, that you’re a long time employee who used to be a big shot. But these days you’ve been given a spiffy title but otherwise kicked out of the company. You’ve seen the division you’ve spent your life in cut, hacked and dismembered. Instead of creating new amazements, it’s been reduced to decorating rides bought from shopping malls. It’s a total disgrace. You had one large project left to cling to – planning for the milestone anniversary for a certain theme park. But there too all of your innovative and magical plans have been hacked, gutted and canceled. At this point the best you’re able to is to put a fresh coat of paint on a few buildings.

You want to go out with a bang. You want to show that the company you’ve spent your life building and nurturing still has the ability to create and wow. But the very last gasp of true magic your company has was just killed because some suit didn’t like the ratings of a cheesy TV show that has nothing to do with the parks. What do you do?

You stop playing nice. All those years of trying to play by the rules, of making up excuses for the idiots in Burbank, all those calming words about how things will work out – all they’ve gotten you is thousands of unemployed friends and far too much time for golf. You might as well go down fighting. You force the issue. You tell everyone the wonders that are on the way. Rumors are easy to deny, but bold statements to the media are a little harder. Building excitement can only help – the suits don’t act unless they feel tremendous pressure. Perhaps a few hundred e-mails might help. And once it’s out in the light of day, it will be harder to kill the project without witnesses.

Anyway, that’s the rumor. We’ll see what really happens.

 

[Dznefreek]

I was thinking about this post (I am really into special effects) when it dawned on me that untethered animatronics have already been accomplished.

They were used in "Deep Blue Sea." The company that did the effects for "Jumanji" developed untethered sharks, Dolphins, and even a full size killer whale for the last "Free Willy" movie. Stan Winston Studios made an untethered fully self-contained baby T-Rex for JP III. THe laser sharks in Austin Powers 3 were also untethered.

I like Disney as much as anyone else but I think this a case of Disney hyping a technology as their own when they are really catching up.

I remember when Indy Jones in DLP opened and they touted it as having the first loop in a Disney park. I remember thinking it has taken them 20+ years to catch up with others using loops.

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by Dznefreek
I was thinking about this post (I am really into special effects) when it dawned on me that untethered animatronics have already been accomplished.

They were used in "Deep Blue Sea." The company that did the effects for "Jumanji" developed untethered sharks, Dolphins, and even a full size killer whale for the last "Free Willy" movie. Stan Winston Studios made an untethered fully self-contained baby T-Rex for JP III. THe laser sharks in Austin Powers 3 were also untethered.

I like Disney as much as anyone else but I think this a case of Disney hyping a technology as their own when they are really catching up.
.

Apples and oranges. Creating an untethered animatronic for a movie is a very different thing than creating one for a theme park. Movie animatronics only have to perform a limited number of times. Movie animatronics are only viewed from select camara angles. An animatronic that looks good on film may not have looked so real in the studio. As much of a genious as Stan Winston is (and the man the best in his industry), one of his creations would not last a week in a theme park (to be fair, they were never designed to).

I agree that the technology to do this is there and has been for the last 10 years or so. However, no one has done it yet because it is very expensive and it is very difficult to design something like this that wont breakdown everytime someone looks at it funny. If Disney does this first, they will truly be leading the industry. Disagree? OK, show me any other theme park with an unteahthered animatronic character. The closest anyone else has come is the Triceratops Encounter at IOA. Its an amazing animatronic dino that's very convincing, but it is firmly rooted in place.

Mr. Sklar has always been one of the people I admired. If AV is right, I hope he succeeds in his efforts. Marty was in charge of imagineering during one of its most creative eras. I would love to see him have one last project to hang his hat on.

 

[ohanafamily]

Sounds cool, I think he will be on the DVC Member cruise. Maybe he will bring a dinosaur with him?

Would be great.

Also, I can see why they would put it in DCA; it needs a major attractionn.

 

[raidermatt]

Fight the good fight, Marty...

 

[Dznefreek]

Movie animatronics only have to perform a limited number of times. Movie animatronics are only viewed from select camara angles

I think the opposite would be true. Most scenes are rarley accomplished in one take.

The movies strive for realism as where theme parks want give the "illusion" of realism.

If you ever saw any of "The making of........." you would see how technically complex and involved these creations are. I think most theme park robotics (with the exception of the witch in TGMR) all still "animated" for lack of a better word.

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by Dznefreek
I think the opposite would be true. Most scenes are rarley accomplished in one take.

The movies strive for realism as where theme parks want give the "illusion" of realism.

If you ever saw any of "The making of........." you would see how technically complex and involved these creations are. I think most theme park robotics (with the exception of the witch in TGMR) all still "animated" for lack of a better word.

I have seen many "The Making of..." type documentaries, in fact, they support my case. A movie animatronic is used at most a couple of hundred times (usually much, much less), and then only over the short span of a shooting schedule. I grant that they are complex, but they are not built to last. They need only to perform long enough to get the shots needed for the film. Themepark AA figures must be able to give thousands of performances and function reliably for several years, its a much tougher standard for reliablity.

Movies strive for realism I agree, but they can work with camera angles lighting, editing and computer enhancements to make the image look much more real. Have you seen a movie AA figure up close? I have and beleive me, they look a whole lot less real off screen. Even just switching from film to TV can destroy the illusion. A special effects company recently demonsrated an AA wolf they had built on a TV show. The figure was impressive, but still looked fake on TV. Then they showed a cut from a film featuring the figure. On film it looked like a real wolf, but not on TV.

Studying animatronics is a hobby of mine and I have a pretty good idea what considerations must be used when building film vs theme park AA figures. I agree that Rick Baker is the best at what he does, but he doesn't design for theme parks. Have you ever wondered why none of the dinos he designed for Jurasic Park were used by Universal in their parks? The reason is they could not stand the punishment of day in day out performances over the course of years, nor would they look very real off film. Up close and live, they still lose much of their realism.

Realism and reliability are much tougher standards for theme parks AAs. If Disney can meet these standards with a free walking AA figure, they truly will have accomplished something that no one has done before. Beleive me, if this were not true, Universal would have done it by now.

 

[Dznefreek]

I agree that Rick Baker is the best at what he does, but he doesn't design for theme parks. Have you ever wondered why none of the dinos he designed for Jurasic Park were used by Universal in their parks?

Uh, it wasn't Rick Baker that designed any of the dinos for JP. It was Stan Winston Studios that did the full size dinos, Industrial Light and Magic did the CGI, and Phil Tippett Studios did the motion control for the full size dinos. Also Mike Lantieri was responsible for physical dino effects. For someone that studies animatronics your facts are off just a bit!

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by Dznefreek
Uh, it wasn't Rick Baker that designed any of the dinos for JP. It was Stan Winston Studios that did the full size dinos, Industrial Light and Magic did the CGI, and Phil Tippett Studios did the motion control for the full size dinos. Also Mike Lantieri was responsible for physical dino effects. For someone that studies animatronics your facts are off just a bit!

I stand corrected. For some reason I am always getting Stan Winston and Rick Baker's names crossed. There is no good reason for this, since Stan is more into makeup than animatronics (though the fields do cross over a bit), but its a mistake I make often (and it drives my wife nuts).

I freely admit to my making a stupid mistake on the name, but my points (which I noticed you did not address) remain valid. Are any Stan Winston AA figures running in any theme pak anywhere? There are several attactions based on his films (the Jusasic park Rides and T2 3D), but who did the animatronics for them? It wasn't Stan Winston studios. I have no doubt that Mr Winston could do this sort of work if he wanted to branch out, but it would require a great deal of new R and D because these are a very different type of animatronics than the ones he is used to building. Movie animatronics have higher emphises on detail, but a much lower emphises on durability a appearance before a live audience.

Movie animatronic and theme park animatronics are very different things and they can not be substituted for each other. That fact that I accidently refereced the wrong name does not change that. Nor does the fact that I failed to pull out my copy of Cinefex and list the other names you mentioned. (BTW: I thought Phil Tippet was mostly a stop motion and CG guy. I freely admit that I could be wrong on this one, but I don't think he worked much on the animatronics for the JP movies. I thought he was more involved in the models and the CG dinos.)

 

[Testtrack321]

While I have problems with DCA having this, I can't imagine that Imagineering hasn't thought of AK especialy since it will draw in the crowds and put to shame a IOA exhibit that handles crowds poorly (and already fits in with an already used script).

I REALLY like the idea of Imagineering playing tough. They can and have always have been able to. I think this is the Acheles heal for Esiner. The What-Ifs, the stuff that is sooo cool, but he balked. If this comes to the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post, we can start counting down the days.

 

[Another Voice]

Isn’t the most important point about what Disney does with their platform?

Few people care about the technology, fewer still care whether it’s Winston® or Baker® or Yoyodyne®. Simply sticking something “new” in a park doesn’t necessarily attract the crowds. It also has to be entertaining and interesting; mere technology can’t help there. The large scale figures in ‘Jurassic Park’ weren’t amazing because a bunch of people said “wow, what a large scale figure that moves with both speed and fluidity so that it can blend in seamlessly with the CGI figures”. People got excited because they said “holly ****, it’s a ******* dinosaur!!!!”. That took the work of artists, not technicians. You use whatever tools you have available to create the effect, you don’t use the tools simply to use the tools.

Now that this thread is buried enough, let me drop a few more tidbits. The platform the rumor is taking about is basically the same one that was shown in the Travel Channel special (it’s rumored the film clip they used was from an old internal company presentation to try and get Eisner interested in continuing funding the project – it didn’t work). The platform itself does nothing but walk. It was originally conceived of as a parade float and has no capabilities beyond simply walking done the street.

It doesn’t have a very naturalistic walk to it and that’s what’s been really holding it back. It’s rumored to look very mechanical; WDI had been hoping that somehow it could have worked for ‘Atlantis’ or ‘Treasure Planet’ or even ‘Inspector Gadget’. But dinosaurs seem to be “it” at the moment and they want to give it a try. It goes back to the effect again – the magic only works if you don’t know how the trick is done. A dinosaur with an obvious mechanical gait is going to look fake but an Atlantian crab monster would be much easier to pull off.

The basic walking platform is rumored to be designed so that other elements can be “hung” on it – like a head and tail. Since these units are independent, they can either be programmed to go through various set routines (look left, look forward, look right), or be controlled by operators via radio control. Another sticking point is that all the “extras” cost money to design, build and operate. Remember this is modern Disney, if you can’t buy it out of a catalog it’s all but impossible to get it in a theme park.

Final point, the platform isn’t the first “untethered” AA figure Disney has tried. This summer there was a Pocahontas storytelling show at California Adventure that featured a Meeko figure. Basically the actress carried the figure in a basket and set it down beside her. The raccoon element poked its head out of the basket and made some basic head moves and expressions. Again, the technology was nothing that hasn’t been done in Hollywood for more than two decades. While the test was considered a success, it was scrapped as part of the budget cuts.

No doubt you’ve spotted a trend. Whether the walking platform actually gets funding for continued development, whether it gets funding to be put in a park, whether it gets funding so a show can be developed around it and whether it gets funding for people to actually stage the show are still huge hurtles that have yet to be crossed. Mr. Sklar is rolling the dice here and no one knows if we have a winner yet.

P.S. The platform will be here at California Adventure because a truck from Glendale to Anaheim costs less than a truck from Glendale to Orlando.