Disney killing Nemo?

[Sarangel]

Jim Hill has an article up on his website about the recent negative 'buzz' for "Finding Nemo." He claims that the source of all this negativity is deep in the heart of the Team Disney building. He further speculates on how this negative word of mouth (true or not) will affect future dealings between Disney and Pixar.

 

[Another Voice]

Studios do things all the time to sabotage their competitors or to harm competing movies. A good number of the posters on movie rumors sites are really working on behalf of people with an “interest” in the studios. Go to any restaurant in Hollywood for lunch and you’ll hear the din of people badmouthing others at the next table. There’s absolutely nothing “silly” about Disney spreading negative rumors about Pixar films (and it’s been rather expected and has happened in the past).

Right now Disney has every reason in the world to take Pixar down. They’ve lost the deal and nothing will keep the company using Mikey’s distribution system, so there’s a lot of spite involved. There’s a lot of professional envy involved as well – the people up at Pixar bask in the glow of success, the animators in Burbank sneak past floors of empty offices biding time until their pink slip arrives. The people at Pixar are asked what cool new story they want to do, the people in Burbank are forced (and I mean forced) to work on a seventh direct-to-video cheap to ‘The Rescuers’. And more importantly, Disney has absolutely no presence in the entire computer animation field. Everyone knows Disney’s Golden Days are long gone; those stuck in the rubble naturally feel bitterness to those in big houses up the hill.

And it’s been long rumored that a certain rodent-branded entertainment company even funds and controls “fan” websites and hires public relation firms to pose as posters on Internet discussion boards so they can manipulate public opinion. Given a world where stuff like that happens, spreading gossip about low test scores for a competitor’s movie is very tiny potatoes.

 

[Sarangel]

But, Disney is still due 2 more Pixar films after this one

Just how are you figuring that, Scoop?

I thought the original deal was for 5 films. My count (below) shows 4 finished, including Nemo, plus one that should count but didn't. I figure they only get one more.

Toy Story
A Bug's Life
Toy Story 2 (doesn't count)
Monsters, Inc.
Finding Nemo
TBD


Sarangel

 

[KidDurango]

I believe that Toy Story was done before the "5 film" deal, and Toy Story 2 does not count towards that total. I believe they have announced in addition to Nemo that Pixar is working on a film tentatively titled Cars and Invincibles may be another.
Bad mouthing their own film is something I don't find likely at this point. Everyone keeps refering to Nemo as a competitior's film. Disney and Pixar are still in a partnership, and both stand to lose or gain considerably depending on the results of this film. I know a lot of people beleive the egos could cause them to tear each other apart, but not when both know that there are still potentialy several hundreds of millions of dollars to be had from the existing partnership, whether it continues beyond the current agreement or not.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by KidDurango
I know a lot of people beleive the egos could cause them to tear each other apart, but not when both know that there are still potentialy several hundreds of millions of dollars to be had from the existing partnership, whether it continues beyond the current agreement or not.

You do know they are talking about Michael Esiner and Steve Jobs right......? These momo's have already made more money then they could ever spend. All they have left is bragging and ego. Seems completely plausible that this is happening.

 

[raidermatt]

If bad-mouthing a movie were a crime...

 

[EUROPA]

Yeah that will stop them....

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

And it’s been long rumored that a certain rodent-branded entertainment company even funds and controls “fan” websites and hires public relation firms to pose as posters on Internet discussion boards so they can manipulate public opinion.

Hmmmm…… Kind of gets you thinking, doesn’t it? I mean, The DIS is a pretty big site, right? And it’s right here, on the good old Rumors and News Board, where we discuss the evils of the Ei$ner empire.

So think about it. I wonder if we have a mole. I wonder how much the job pays. Would they pay extra for an Ei$ner hater to become 'reformed' (Hey!! I'm from Chicago!!).

Anyone care to venture a guess? Or can somebody give us the real scoop, no Kidding around?

 

[airlarry!]

AV:

Frankly, I'm surprised that it is you that is taking part in this blatant rumor-mongering. Jim Hill is way, way off base accusing anybody in this industry of that kind of disloyalty.

Next you are going to start spreading rumors that Michael dissed his protege, who had allegedly helped save the animation division, in favor of a string of yes-man, and caused said protege to forge a partnership with two of the most powerful names in the industry! In <b> direct </b> competition with Disney! Such lies...such innuendo...such....

Oh wait.

That did happen.

Seriously, boys and girls, don't think for one second that Cousin Mike does not have enough cahones to play serious, serious hardball with the boys of Pixar. He does. And he will.

Read his own account of what he did to 'save the company' after the initial debacle with EuroDisney in the south of France: my favorite part is where he would admittedly ask for some nearly impossible concession to be gotten by his negotiator, and then when that would be accomplished, he would keep a straight poker face, and tell the negotiator it was not good enough and to get more. Mike's got a mean streak, when he feels the company (and therefore his meal ticket) is threatened, and he would, could, and will do everything in his power to bring Pixar under his thumb.

Too bad he's going about it the wrong way. Again.

 

[Bob O]

Maybe the quote mentioned by DVC,AV can explain some of the disney apologists on this site?????
And i would put nothing past einsr's ego, even doing something that would hurt disney's bottom line.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Bob, with the "Disney apologists" labels again??? I guess that makes you an outright Disney basher, eh?

This article is so lame it is funny...The Disney Board with all of their personal liabilities would certainly let Michael break many SEC laws just in the name of friendship...Get real folks ... Or at least wise up to when Voice is just pullin' your legs...

 

[JeffH]

I seem to remember some real bad things said about Monsters Inc. long before it came out. How it just wasn't working, and how it might never get released...well that criticizm certainly turned that movie around.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Originally posted by thedscoop
...but engaging in deceptive conduct at least partially designed to affect the stock price of a publicly-traded company certainly is...

...oh and baron, you gawt me, I only say that it is now time for Eisner to leave, that WWS remains a huge mistake as well as much of Downtown Disney, plus the fact that ABC remains a huge mistake, yep, I only say this and other stuff to keep you bloodhounds off the trail... quintiple ugh's though...detective baron is on the case and I've been had...

So, okay, I admit it. I am really Mr. Bay and Disney's paying me 10mill per fiscal to blow up a bunch of stuff and defend The Company through virtual means... (plus narrate that stupid pre-tram ride film)

...so, yes, Bobo, that does explain me as a Disney apologist, but it doesn't explain why you write and spell on a third grade level...

Thanks for responding to the rediculousness partne.........I mean Mr. Scoop, whoever you are .

'Nuff said.

 

[Another Voice]

“Get real folks”

Exactly – this is Hollywood: the land of the faithful marriage, the handshake contract, and of deep appreciation for art and integrity. Get real indeed.

What’s going on with ‘Finding Nemo’ right now is nothing more than typical competitor bashing that happens breakfast, lunch and dinner in town. It’s exactly the same kind of thing that happens here when people gloat over problems at Vivendi/Universal or make snide comments about Six Flags. It’s always much easier to rip someone else down than it is to build your side up.

There is tremendous corporate, professional and artistic jealousy between Disney and Pixar right now and it’s very understandable. Pixar is up on the mountain in a place where Disney feels it has right to be. For people who can not climb, throwing rocks feels like a good substitute.

And Mr. JeffH is absolutely correct; the early test screenings for ‘Monsters, Inc.’ were far worse than the screenings for ‘Nemo’. Go back and listen to the commentary on the DVD and you’ll hear about the tremendous number of changes that were made to the film as a result of that feedback. The real reason a film has test screenings is to determine what works and what doesn’t. It’s the movie equivalent of opening in Hartford. Used properly, it’s an important step in finishing the movie.

If nothing else, Pixar knows how to use this process and is brave enough to admit it. They didn’t have to fake phony test screenings (like Disney is alleged to have done for ‘Pearl Harbor’) so that bogus reports could be sent all over town and posted on the Internet. If Pixar had a poor test ‘Nemo’ then they have a chance to improve the film. That’s much better than sticking your head in the sand which is what many around Disney do these days.

Get real folks – this is Hollywood.


By the way, other sites are posting the rumors that the final elimination of Disney’s Feature Animation Department will start this Friday. The twist is that FA President Thomas Schumacher has already been fired too. He’s been on Eisner’s list for quite a while now and has never been liked by Roy Disney. It’s been assumed that his departure was simply a matter of time as part of Eisner’s continued attempts to placate the board but that the timing was in question. Most people assumed that Schumacher would be shoved after the FA department was history (let him take all the heat for the dirty work much like Pressler did) and/or the heat for another flop needed to be redirected (‘Lilo’ maybe?). It will be interesting to see what happens here.

 

[raidermatt]

...but engaging in deceptive conduct at least partially designed to affect the stock price of a publicly-traded company certainly is...

Scoop, you of all people should know how difficult it would be to prove the motiviations behind "bad-mouthing". We shouldn't need AV to tell us this kind of crud goes on all the time in Hollywood.

Besides, who said anything about anybody's stock price? Its a movie. Just because you distribute it doesn't mean that you can't have a negative opinion of it. Even if it were proven it was somebody at Disney spreading negative reviews, the easily defensible position would be they were just providing their opinion, in the hopes of getting improvements made.

SEC? Why would they ever pursue such an unproveable case when they have such "low hanging fruit" as Martha Stewart?

 

[Peter Pirate]

Come on now Matt, it is Disney after all. You know, the Company that is always under the microscope, the Company that is always being sued...

If the negative comments are just Hollywood chit-chat fine but AV made it sound as if Mike was instigating a well orchastrated smear campaign...Which would certainly contain legal ramifications...

 

[hopemax]

By the way, other sites are posting the rumors that the final elimination of Disney’s Feature Animation Department will start this Friday. The twist is that FA President Thomas Schumacher has already been fired too.

Check out Jim Hill's website. Fab has a guest column, which is something that looks like a PR, but could be a hoax, could be true info but not a true PR.

 

[raidermatt]

Just for the record, here's what AV said...

And it’s been long rumored that a certain rodent-branded entertainment company even funds and controls “fan” websites and hires public relation firms to pose as posters on Internet discussion boards so they can manipulate public opinion. Given a world where stuff like that happens, spreading gossip about low test scores for a competitor’s movie is very tiny potatoes.

"Spreading gossip about low test scores" is not going to get anybody at the SEC riled up.

The part about the websites is a separate issue, and as he said, its only rumored (though clearly he believes it to be true).

That said, I don't frequent too many other Disney sites, but I do check out a few here and there, and I can think of at least one entire website that at least arouses suspiscion about motives.

 

[airlarry!]

Scoop:

Disingenious argument, my friend.

You, of all people, know that paid PR flaks are neither frowned upon nor illegal under current SEC law. Seriously, how would you even be able to outlaw a Disney employee getting on the net and raving about the newest Parade? Are we gonna next outlaw baseball players from publicly backing their skipper with another "The Skip knows what buttons to push...we just gotta take it one game at a time...God willing, I'll be able to contribute to the team effort?" just because they are employees of the Tribune Company or The Disney CompanY?

As long as a PR hack does not lie about who he/she is, of course...

So AV says that Disney is encouraging its workers to talk good about its product on the internet in an effort to build up public good will? Or that Disney is fanning the flames of an alleged low test screening of its partner/competitor?

Neither may be true, but both are believable. My real problem with this....what if it is true? Aren't you mad at your company for spending money wasting time with this kind of 'espionage' instead of creating the next B&B or forging an alliance with Lassiter et al?

Really. How many of us here think that Nemo will make less than Atlantis? Anybody want to take that bet? Pixar is following the book, something we've talked about before. Disney is getting away from the book (as a car 3'er, I'm saying getting away, cause I still hope against hope someone comes to their senses).

ROY! IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO SAVE THE COMPANY!

 

[Peter Pirate]

You're right Matt, that AV makes no direct statement blaming a scheme on ME, but en totale it sure seems slanted that way...But it's neither here nor there. Some of us don't believe every word of any poster, including those we generally side with...Some buy in hook line and sinker to the guru du jour.

The point is that it makes no sense for Disney or Eisner to sabatoge a current money maker (in any way) when the hoped outcome could never be predicted or guaranteed. Hollywood, by AV's own admission, has no loyalty and what's true today doesn't mean doodly squat tomorrow. Therefore it's no forgone conclusion that the Disney-Pixar relationship can't be resurrected. What if Eisner has an Epipheny? What if Jobs bcomes a sweetheart? What if someone dies? What if the Angels win the World Series? What if? What if? What if? Anything can happen.

Eisner needs to add $$$ to the bottom line and if 'Nemo' can do it I can think of no logical reason to sabotage money in the bank...