DISNEY if you don't want the average Joe to stay at the parks just say so...

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Disney World has always been expensive. With a family of 6 kids growing up in Ohio, my parents certainly could never afford it. And we grew up happy anyway. Universal is expensive too, I know we have paid for parking or some kind of resort fee at the hotels there. If Disney gets too expensive, people should just go there less. They can charge whatever they want as a private company. I really don't think it is going to hurt their business.
 
All I'm trying to do is to start a conversation about Disney turning into a nickel and dime operation, Walt's dream was for Disney to be a place where the average American Joe can take is family and enjoy the day, as corny as it might sound that was his dream!

His dream was a clean and safe family park as opposed to unregulated carnivals, not necessarily an affordable one for the "average" family, which was something different in his day anyway. And Disneyland is something different from Walt Disney World as well.
 
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I say we could actually look back 15-1/2 years ago, but that would be verging on a political post......
Taking out the politics, according to some, 15 years ago Disney was so much cheaper, everyone could afford it so it couldn't have begun back then.
 
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Walt's dream was for Disney to be a place where families can go and enjoy the day. I'm not sure he ever said anything about the "average" family. If I'm wrong I'd be happy to see the quote.
You're correct, with the addition of "in a safe, clean environment". He wanted (needed) to make his money back.
 

The first time I ever heard that a Disney vacation was for "the average family" was here on these boards. I didn't know anyone personally that went for more than a day or 2 to WDW when I was growing up. And most of those were for school related trips.

As far as boycotting Disney and all that, if that's how you feel, I won't begrudge anyone that wants to do that. However, I'm not going to pretend I haven't had a great time and still feel I'm getting my Disney money's worth.

Same here. Is it more expensive? Yes, but it's still well worth the cost to me! This May we will pay $48 a day per person for park and waterpark admission. Our villa costs $218 a night, but that's for an apartment that sleeps 9, has 3 bathrooms, laundry, full kitchen, and deluxe amenities throughout the resort. All in it's about $90 a day per person for lodging, entertainment, transportation, and dining. That seems reasonable to me when comparing to other vacation choices and what they offer for the money.
 
I'm not sure it's necessarily an effort to push out the Average Joes. I think they'd like to pull in more once in a lifetime visitors in the hopes they'll be content with what frequent visitors may label stale offerings, won't notice if everything isn't operating with all effects working, will want to commemorate their visit with any type of souvenir that says Disney or WDW and isn't going to notice if the customer service isn't up to traditional Disney standards because they only are experiencing it for the first time and may accept good enough as acceptable. In short, I think they'd like to push out the return visitors who complain about declining service, stale or poorly maintained attractions and who don't want another bland WDW sweatshirt and decide to go to a great place offsite for dinner instead of spending $20 each for Disney fast food or $60 each for Disney Olive Garden food they booked a table for months ago.
 
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What do you want? Dilapidated parks that never change? Street people walking down Main Street, so Disney can say they welcome everyone? Do you want WDW to be run like the government? Pretty soon, the only people going would be street people. Quit blaming Disney. They are a business and have to be run like a business. They have to compete with an ever increasing stiff competition. Disney's cost to keep up with the Jones's goes up every year. Yes, fewer and fewer people can afford to go. If you want to put the blame somewhere, put it where it belongs. Having a completely flat economy over the last 7 years. Blame the drop in average salaries in this country over the last 7 years. Blame for the first time in history, over 50% of Americans are considered below middle class. Blame the economy where kids are having to live at home longer, because they can't find jobs. Blame the fact that people are working fewer hours than ever before, because full time jobs are becoming harder and harder to find and the vast majority of new jobs created, are low wage and part time. The blame should rest on the American people 7-1/2 years ago.
Most of this I'm not bothering to respond to, but Disney used to be the Jones's. They aren't anymore.
 
His dream was a clean and safe family park as opposed to unregulated carnivals, not necessarily an affordable one for the "average" family, which was something different in his day anyway. And Disneyland is something different from Walt Disney World as well.
Off topic, but when you quote someone, can you please keep their screen name in the quote? Thanks.
 
I'm not sure it's necessarily an effort to push out the Average Joes. I think they'd like to pull in more once in a lifetime visitors in the hopes they'll be content with what frequent visitors may label stale offerings, won't notice if everything isn't operating with all effects working, will want to commemorate their visit with any type of souvenir that says Disney or WDW and isn't going to notice if the customer service isn't up to traditional Disney standards because they only are experiencing it for the first time and may accept good enough as acceptable. In short, I think they'd like to push out the return visitors who complain about declining service, stale or poorly maintained attractions and who don't want another bland WDW sweatshirt and decide to go to a great place offsite for dinner instead of spending $20 each for Disney fast food or $60 each for Disney Olive Garden food they booked a table for months ago.

If they wanted to do this they would get rid of Annual Passes and lower the 1-10 day ticket prices. I'm an annual passholder currently and the annual passes don't even make sense to me. They are way too good of a deal and people are taking up a lot of space that aren't buying all the souvenirs, etc. that a once every few years type of family would. There must be some reason the annual passes make sense to them, but I don't get it.
 
After 9/11 it was cheap to go to WDW. because many persons had been put off air travel by the occurrences of that day. It was SO cheap because they had to close an entire resort (POFQ) for a time, since they were not getting enough bookings to sustain all their resorts. Those that were still open were deeply discounted, especially for Florida residents and APs - because a lot of them didn't need to travel by air.

Has it also been forgotten that they shut down a few character meals at outlying resorts (which never came back) and cut back on staffing - because there weren't enough guests to justify full staffing.

They did better than a lot of places in Orlando, many of which did not survive the downturn. I suppose it is being said that the locals won't come back in a downturn even with deep discounts because they feel dissed by Disney at the moment. That probably remains to be seen.

it was also cheap to fly because airlines were trying really hard to get people onto the planes. If they didn't, they'd go out of business.

They don't need to do that anymore. They may need to do it again someday, but is it being suggested that Disney act like it's right around the corner and start cutting prices and offering very deep discounts now?

No matter what they do now, if the guests won't get onto planes, they are going to be discounting. That won't happen until it happens. Other parks in the area will be in the same boat.

Remember how "free dining" came about? Four hurricanes in one year, causing adjustments and closure to the park schedules. Guests in 2005 saying "I'm not going to Florida in September. No way." Hello free dining. They still offer it, but they don't need to offer it as much anymore. What'll happen if there are more hurricanes though?
 
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Most of this I'm not bothering to respond to, but Disney used to be the Jones's. They aren't anymore.

I'm not so sure about this. Capacity at Disneyland was around 50,000 in the early days. That's about 18 Million bodies coming through in a year (many of whom were repeat visitors and even international guests). The population of the US at the time was 165 Million. The true "average" family has never been Disney's main demographic.
 
I'm not sure it's necessarily an effort to push out the Average Joes. I think they'd like to pull in more once in a lifetime visitors in the hopes they'll be content with what frequent visitors may label stale offerings, won't notice if everything isn't operating with all effects working, will want to commemorate their visit with any type of souvenir that says Disney or WDW and isn't going to notice if the customer service isn't up to traditional Disney standards because they only are experiencing it for the first time and may accept good enough as acceptable. In short, I think they'd like to push out the return visitors who complain about declining service, stale or poorly maintained attractions and who don't want another bland WDW sweatshirt and decide to go to a great place offsite for dinner instead of spending $20 each for Disney fast food or $60 each for Disney Olive Garden food they booked a table for months ago.

I don't think it's an effort to do that, either. It's a sad side effect. The sad reality is that the population of the United States continues to grow through birth and immigration, and an ever populated world increasingly sees WDW and DLR as an attractive destination. I get that Disney is a for-profit company, and I get that if they make tickets $10 per day, they will have to capacity-close the parks every day of the year. I'm the biggest proponent of pricing until supply meets demand that you'll ever see. So they have a choice between building more and more parks until supply meets demand, which may not be prudent long-run if the current international Disney fervor wanes, or price up. It's how they are choosing to price up that disturbs me. As a hotel guy, because I'm not a Disney guest, ever. I don't see the value in it for myself, personally. Frankly, decades of hotel associate discounts have jaded me, so I struggle to justify any expensive accommodation. But that's my weakness, and I wouldn't for a moment suggest that others steer clear of Disney if they see value in the proposition.

It bothered me in the hotel industry that we would come up with underhanded ways of increasing revenue, like resort fees, and it bothers me that Disney is even considering it after building a reputation of being an expensive stay but giving some real value in the form of competitive advantages against non-resort guests. Now, after having built that reputation, and amid various reports that world-class Disney resort service ain't what it used to be, they are suggesting that you are really paying that high resort price for a hotel room with Mickey on the door, and perhaps some garish and tacky design features of the resort itself if you are in Pop or AoA. So, because that nice room alone is really worth the $400 per night you pay for it, I'm gonna go ahead and charge you a resort fee on top of that. And yes, of course you'll pay it, because if you don't, you can stay offsite and lose 180 ADR, 60 FP, Magic Express, EMH, etc.
 
They may need to do it again someday, but is it being suggested that Disney act like it's right around the corner and start cutting prices and offering very deep discounts now?

Yeah - this makes no sense to me. If anything it makes the point that they should make as much money as they can now to help get through the tougher times.
 
I'm not so sure about this. Capacity at Disneyland was around 50,000 in the early days. That's about 18 Million bodies coming through in a year (many of whom were repeat visitors and even international guests). The population of the US at the time was 165 Million. The true "average" family has never been Disney's main demographic.
I'm not sure WD originally envisioned DL being such a national and now international draw back then, either.
 
The bad thing is that the price increases/new costs are such obvious cash grabs on top of already exorbitant prices. They are obviously trying to see at what point people will stop coming, but I fear by the time that happens and they realize it then they will have lost too many people who won't come back, and the company's profits from the parks will be way down while Universal's will have gone up. Disney's extreme overconfidence and acting like they have no competition definitely could backfire. Even on stuff like tiering 1 day tickets, I think a lot who only do/can go 1 day during peak periods will pick Universal instead

Good, I look forward to Disney having to offer deals to win crowds back.
 
Yeah - this makes no sense to me. If anything it makes the point that they should make as much money as they can now to help get through the tougher times.

This concept is not lost on anyone in the hospitality in general. You make hay while the sun is shining. The problem is that corporate investor cows eat all the hay and expect you to make just as much when it's not.
 
I'm not sure WD originally envisioned DL being such a national and now international draw back then, either.

Really? They were running a national TV show with enormous ratings called "Disneyland" for a year prior to opening that was basically an advertisement for the park. I think they had a sense there was pretty big interest.
 
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