Disney does not want or need FastPass+ Haters business!

[VMKYouAreMissed]

They are apologetic, but it does seem that they do not care. It is unfortunate.

 

[wfjny]

I have to admit, what I find humorous are the people that say that others are “breaking the rules”, or something to that effect.

I think every once in a while, people have to be reminded, Disney is a company. The company exists to make money. They make movies because people want to pay to see them (hopefully). They own TV shows and stations for the same reasons. Then there are the amusement parks.

Let’s face it, if they did not make money from AP holders, they would not sell them. Disney gives away free park tickets all the time. Even in their magic your way ticket prices, once you get above three or four days, each additional day’s admission is only $10 more. Disney makes money on the food, on the merchandise, on the parking, etc.

As a DVC owner, AP holder, TIW member, and Disney stockholder, I have learned many tricks over the years to save a lot of time and money. Some people seem to think some of these tricks are only for the gifted few, but I submit every one of them can be found with some rather easy internet searches.

We knew how do get the most out of the parks before fastpass (RD, go left, etc.). We learned how to utilize FP- as best you can. We learned how to utilize it even more effectively with the “instant FP” during the “birthday pass” and the “give a day, get a day” programs.

Yes, I was upset when Disney decreased the discount for Premium AP from 20% to 10%. I am not happy that some restaurants are now not participating in the TIW. I am positive that Disney will eliminate included parking from the AP real soon as well.

As for FP+, well, time will tell. I am currently not a fan. The 3 pass limit, the inability (or difficulty) to sync up with others, and would I really want to use one of my 3 FP+ for Star Tours when the stand-by wait is 10 minutes or less (last month, my family was the only ones in our “ship”). However, as they work out the kinks, and we learn how to use the system better, I am sure we will all find the most useful way of using it.

Some people have suggested that Disney is attempting to “anger” the AP holders. I would doubt that, as there are many people who spend quite a bit of money when they are there. We live about 8 hours away (Charlotte, NC), close enough for a long weekend trip. Last month, our schools had a 5 day weekend. We ran into several neighbors while we were in Disney. While we did hop on the people mover with another family at one point, there was no easy way for all of us to say get a fast pass for the haunted mansion anymore.

However, in the end, I do vote with my wallet. If and when the trip to Disney is not worth it, we will not go. No hard feelings, just simple economics. However, I think the higher ups at Disney also know that. Today, on top of our vacation club stay, we tend to make it to the world five or six times a year. Hilton Diamond status, hotel discount codes (even groupon), saving 20+% on sit down meals (TIW), not having to pay for parking (PAP), and a 10% discount on merchandise make some of these trips possible. Being able to go on less rides and/or see less shows changes how much "fun" we get per dollar.

Again, then the fun per dollar ratio is not high enough, we will change our approach.

 

[disneyfantotheend]

Think you missed the "But again to each their own" part of my post. You are welcome to buy extra tickets and make ghost reservations. I just won't be doing it.

 

[mom2rtk]

Not a horrible time, but the first time I've ever felt "Meh" at WDW.

I think that's what a lot of us fear happening at some point on our long anticipated trips.

 

[jade1]

I just won't be doing it.

Good for you!

And to those that will be doing it-good for them.

 

[jerivera]

It seems like Disney has decided to join the ranks of businesses that have recognized which customers are good for their business and bottom line----and those customers who are bad for business.

The park goers who used FastPass to the fullest extent are no longer welcomed or desired at Disney. They use up the most resources.....likely to pay the least when compared to others...... and are the most likely to maximize discounts and savings. This group gets their money's worth and some. It's no crime--- but with consumerism at an all time high------businesses have begun to scrutinize and profile their patrons----to identify who their ideal customers are and who their least ideal customers are.

Some restaurant buffets have resorted to banning certain people for eating up all the food or the choice items. These restaurants have gone on record stating---that they don't want the business of folks who eat more than the average guest. It does seem like Disney is taking a similar approach---just short of banning certain people.

The philosophy behind this is called the "Pareto Principle"--- where the common rule of the thumb in business is "80 percent of your sales come from 20% of your customers....also known as the 80-20 rule.

It means that only 20% of customers provide 80% of all profits. Inversely, it means 20% of customers suck up and devour an astonishing 80% of all resources, direct consumer costs, time w/customer service-- and wreak the most havoc. Disney wants to increase the 20% group and decrease the 80% group.

FastPass+ may be a weeding tool to cull those customers who Disney considers to be the least desirable and least profitable customers----which will free up all the resources to better address the needs of their best customers. All businesses know that the best customers are not always the ones who spend the most. Disney has now established terms or services that will only appeal to their most ideal customers. Those who don't like it will feel left out in the cold... for sure.

Businesses also know that they can always drum up temporary business quickly by throwing the least desirable and least profitable group of customers a bone every now and then.....in the form of some kind of discount or freebie and they will come a runnin'.

Disney will not get rid of FastPass+ ----- it's designed with this purpose in mind.

Spot on.

The one thing I'd add is that, bottom line, the overwhelming majority of folk who go to Disney enjoy it. Otherwise, they wouldn't still be in business.

A lot of folk seem to think their personal opinion is somehow greatly important to Disney. It isn't.

Then there are the folk who go by "my family, friends and neighbors think FP+ sucks", and therefore very illogically are convinced that the rest of the world thinks it sucks. They don't.

So regardless of how it was, how it is, how it will be, and what folk on the boards (a very small microcosm of folk who go to Disney) personally think, what Disney's doing is working for them, or they wouldn't be doing it.

And good for Disney, as I enjoy my Disney vacations. And the better things go for them, the better things are likely to get in the parks, and the more I'll be able to enjoy them.

 

[flicx]

This philosophy that Disney is too big to fail or they are making all this money so they don't care or have to care about their customers is laughable. Seems we all forget about the bailouts of companies that were too big to fail. They keep heading down the raise prices super fast take away more and more from the customer path things will go south in a hurry! Then what? The attitudes will change in a hurry.

 

[Planogirl]

Spot on.

The one thing I'd add is that, bottom line, the overwhelming majority of folk who go to Disney enjoy it. Otherwise, they wouldn't still be in business.

A lot of folk seem to think their personal opinion is somehow greatly important to Disney. It isn't.

Then there are the folk who go by "my family, friends and neighbors think FP+ sucks", and therefore very illogically are convinced that the rest of the world thinks it sucks. They don't.

So regardless of how it was, how it is, how it will be, and what folk on the boards (a very small microcosm of folk who go to Disney) personally think, what Disney's doing is working for them, or they wouldn't be doing it.

And good for Disney, as I enjoy my Disney vacations. And the better things go for them, the better things are likely to get in the parks, and the more I'll be able to enjoy them.

I won't assume that a new system still in test mode is a success. I'm not saying that it won't be but it's a little soon to judge.

 

[TLSnell1981]

At this moment in time, the system stinks. I'm not throwing away thousands of $$$$$ to be Disney's guinea pig. We've sucked it up, through the last couple of years of "test modes" and "take always". Now, I'm allowed one FP per day...reduced to one headliner? The other's are throwaways for me. Not happy or interested...

 

[tazadd0420]

At this moment in time, the system stinks. I'm not throwing away thousands of $$$$$ to be Disney's guinea pig. We've sucked it up, through the last couple of years of "test modes" and "take always". Now, I'm allowed one FP per day...reduced to one headliner? The other's are throwaways for me. Not happy or interested...

I agree if you do not like a business then you should not support that business with your dollars. Why would anyone go somewhere that to them is no fun. WDW is still fun for us so we will spend our hard earned dollars with them, but if I did not find it enjoyable why would I even go????

 

[aubriee]

Yes, this is what happened to us in Jan. It was just sort of boring in the afternoon. We were done soaking up the atmosphere and didn't want to go back to the hotel. It was way too cold to swim, and the SB lines were so long we'd miss our ADRs. Not a horrible time, but the first time I've ever felt "Meh" at WDW.

We had the same problem in Dec. We were staying offsite at Bonnet Creek, so did not qualify for FP+. The few FP- we were able to get were always for late afternoon/evening times and since my elderly mom could not spend that much time in the parks, they didn't work for us. We'd get to rope drop, ride what we could, then have to leave about lunch time. We used to get multiple fast passes every day, but for our Dec trip we were only able to get one FP for the entire week that worked for us. We normally spend about eight days out of the eleven that we are down there in the Disney parks, but saw very quickly that due to long lines in both FP and standby that we were going to be spending alot of time standing in lines. My mom was not able to handle that, so instead of our usual eight days in the Disney parks we spent just one full day in Epcot, and then a half day in both DS and MK. We didn't even bother going over to AK, because we didn't want to deal with the new system. As Annual Passholders who normally go 4-6 times a year, we were not happy with our trip. Instead we made other plans. We also have annual passes for Universal and Fun Passes for Sea World, so we spent a couple of days at Sea World and two days at Universal and then did other things offsite like a swamp boat ride, monster truck ride at Showcase of Citrus, a day at the beach, etc. We just had no desire to go back over to the Disney parks. My husband wanted to make one more trip down there, just to get use out of our APs, so we are going back March 21-31st, but to tell the truth I am dreading it. Staying offsite again, we will not be able to make FP+ until the we enter the parks each day. Even though I am a huge Disney fan and always had a next trip I was planning, I just can't get enthused for this trip. We have definitely decided not to renew our annual passes though. This will be the first time since 2004 that I haven't had an annual pass. Disney just doesn't seem worth it anymore. We'll be taking our money offsite to Universal and Sea World from now on.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

We had the same problem in Dec. We were staying offsite at Bonnet Creek, so did not qualify for FP+. The few FP- we were able to get were always for late afternoon/evening times and since my elderly mom could not spend that much time in the parks, they didn't work for us. We'd get to rope drop, ride what we could, then have to leave about lunch time. We used to get multiple fast passes every day, but for our Dec trip we were only able to get one FP for the entire week that worked for us. We normally spend about eight days out of the eleven that we are down there in the Disney parks, but saw very quickly that due to long lines in both FP and standby that we were going to be spending alot of time standing in lines. My mom was not able to handle that, so instead of our usual eight days in the Disney parks we spent just one full day in Epcot, and then a half day in both DS and MK. We didn't even bother going over to AK, because we didn't want to deal with the new system. As Annual Passholders who normally go 4-6 times a year, we were not happy with our trip. Instead we made other plans. We also have annual passes for Universal and Fun Passes for Sea World, so we spent a couple of days at Sea World and two days at Universal and then did other things offsite like a swamp boat ride, monter truck ride at Showcase if Citrus, a day at the beach, etc. We just had no desire to go back over to the Disney parks. My husband wanted to make one more trip down there, just to get use out of our APs, so we are going back March 21-31st, but to tell the truth I am dreading it. Staying offsite again, we will not be able to make FP+ until the we enter the parks each day. Even though I am a huge Disney fan and always had a next trip I was planning, I just can't get enthused for this trip. We have definitely decided not to renew our annual passes though. This will be the first time since 2004 that I haven't had an annual pass. Disney just doesn't seem worth it anymore. We'll be taking our money offsite to Universal and Sea World from now on.

I thought there was talk of AP holders getting 60 days too soon? I hope so for you.

 

[pilferk]

I
What will be, will be. I've been around the block with Disney and I really feel fastpass plus is a bad idea overall. Hopefully, in the future Disney will see the light especially if the park count goes down. It could be that Disney is looking to lower overall crowds at the parks and make their on site resort guests pay significantly higher prices on their stay in the end to make up the difference.

Just wanted to add one little point to the above:

" Hopefully, in the future Disney will see the light especially if the park count goes down" AND there is a corresponding drop in revenue generation.

Disney, largely, probably wouldn't care about a "pure" drop in attendance....as long as the in park revenue OR their "pure profit" went UP by a significant margin.

In other words, if they saw a 2% (which would be pretty big) drop in OVERALL park attendance (meaning all 4 parks) BUT saw a 3% rise in revenue and a 2% rise in overall gross profit...they wouldn't even sniffle.

Get a few less people somehow spending quite a bit more.....they'd be in heaven.

 

[pilferk]

FP+ 60 days for everybody that has a Disney ticket in advanced? Regardless of where you stay in the most fair thing imao. We are DVC so always stay on property, I like FP+ as I never used FP but I can see how others have lost out that don't stay on property. I think that's what Walt would have wanted.. 3 for everybody buying a ticket..60 days for everybody...I know that might not let superusers ride multiple times but with the current system it's the best solution I think.

Here's the issue with the current implementation:

Tying 60 days to a resort stay is easy...your clock starts on check in day.

For offsite guests (and AP holders) you have no date to tie your 60 day window to. Tickets are open ended.

You could run it like ADRS...for sure...with a rolling 60 day window and then simply require theme park admission tickets be linked to their account. This is essentially what they do for AP holders who have had an onsite stay (and, seemingly, what they're going to do for all AP holders, eventually). But then you open the system up to potential abuse..because what's to stop people from linking an admission ticket to an account and just randomly making FP+ ressies and not using them? With AP holders, it's not as big a deal because that kind of systemic abuse could be tracked back to the ticket holder very easily. But with single day admission media? All you could do is track it to an email addy, and, MAYBE, "cancel" the ticket.

I agree: Disney should find a way to incorporate off site guests. But the way they choose to do that might not be the way we'd like (selling tickets with specific date ranges?) or it may introduce other issues to the system.

And it still would require prepurchase of tickets and linking them to an account. No "buy them your first day at the ticket booths" kind of thing, which I suspect a lot of off site guests do.

 

[pilferk]

They are apologetic, but it does seem that they do not care. It is unfortunate.

I think it's too early to tell that, really.

I wouldn't expect any response to ANY feedback given directly to Disney (either via survey, email, or "service recovery" phone call) to be incorporated til the system had been fully up (meaning Legacy FP turned off) for 6 months or so.

Maybe mid-June...probably more like late September/early October (after they've seen the effect on the larger summer crowds).

If we haven't seen any tweaks by years end...THEN it might be time to adopt the above position (not so much they don't care..but that they are satisfied with the system functionality).

 

[I M Fearless]

I completely agree... this is all about the bottom line and I believe as the system is tweaked we will see more and more manipulation of the masses.

Can Disney move guests to particular attractions or areas of the park at different times of day by offering an extra fastpasses?

For instance, if they know a family has young children who likely are getting tired could they entice them to Town Square Theatre for a Mickey meet & greet towards the end of the day if they thought they may leave the property at that point?

Or could they take them deeper into the park if they wanted them to stay longer?

Can they tell when guests are tired by the speed they are walking? They could then be offered dinner reservations if they need to fill restaurants.

Will they know when guests last stopped for a drink by their magic bands?

They could be offered a coupon for particular vendors etc nearby for products they might want.

If a guest buys two coffees each morning between 9am and 11am could they prompt guests to think about a nearby purchase.

The basic system when improved allows for huge levels of manipulation/suggestion if Disney choose to go down that route. From a business point of view I am certain it will increase revenue well into the future.

 

[kdnmom]

So, I had been following these FP+ threads previously but I don't think I ever commented on one. I've been away from the DIS for a few months (last trip was in December) and just came back yesterday because of a specific question related to a son's school band trip. I got sucked back in to reading these threads because of the one posting about the FP+ lines snaking through the park. I ended up reading that one and this one (why, I'm not sure since it doesn't affect me...).

Anyway, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. We are a family with 3 boys. We are proud rope-drop prior "uber-users" of FP legacy. We are prior AP holders who have lived for the past 10 years within a few hours of Disney World. Our APs expired in December and we did not renew because of FP+. My responses to what I have read on this (and other) threads (not singling any poster out):

1. "Disney doesn't care about guests like me" - We have spent probably $100,000 at Disney over the past 10 years, between tickets, hotels, restaurants, etc. Why would Disney not want my $100,000??? And I'm sure we're not an isolated case; there are others out there like us. Is FP+ really going to bring in 20 $5,000 families over that time BECAUSE OF FP+ THAT WOULD NOT OTHERWISE HAVE COME? Is FP+ reaching out to that kind of new audience? Or are enough of the first-time visitors going to be so happy with the FP+ system that they'll make return trips to make up for the money lost by losing our business? Or are enough visitors now going to be buying more souvenirs to make up for losing our business? I kinda doubt it, but if Disney has determined that they will make up those losses, more power to them. We'll just spend our vacation money elsewhere. Really glad we ended up not getting DVC...

2. "You're really going to stop going to Disney because you can't get your precious fastpasses??" - Yes, we're really going to stop going to Disney because we can't get our fastpasses. Standing in lines is very stressful for us. Listening to 3 bored boys complain and trying to get them to keep their hands off of each other while standing in line for an hour is not my idea of a good time. That juggling act, combined with the fact that we won't be able to fit into a day the same things that we used to fit into a day tips the scales to make it not worth our money anymore. It may be worth it to some, but not to us. To each his own, but Disney is really missing an opportunity to get our money.

3. "FP+ levels the playing field and makes FP use more fair" - This has been discussed at length, but just throwing my hat in the ring on the side of FP legacy being more fair. EVERYONE had the same opportunities at the same starting point using that system (except for the morning EMH, of course, whose effects were minimal). Whether staying onsite or off, whether planning your trip months ahead of time or being a spontaneous visitor, EVERYONE could start collecting FP at the same time (park opening). I agree that Disney probably doesn't exactly care about being "fair". They care about making money. They may, however, care about the general population's perception of fair which could affect their bottom line...

 

[BuckeyeBama]

To those canceling future trips because of FP+ - would you reconsider future visits if you could purchase additional FP+ for a fee, or if you received additional FP+ for staying on-site?

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Here's the issue with the current implementation: Tying 60 days to a resort stay is easy...your clock starts on check in day. For offsite guests (and AP holders) you have no date to tie your 60 day window to. Tickets are open ended. You could run it like ADRS...for sure...with a rolling 60 day window and then simply require theme park admission tickets be linked to their account. This is essentially what they do for AP holders who have had an onsite stay (and, seemingly, what they're going to do for all AP holders, eventually). But then you open the system up to potential abuse..because what's to stop people from linking an admission ticket to an account and just randomly making FP+ ressies and not using them? With AP holders, it's not as big a deal because that kind of systemic abuse could be tracked back to the ticket holder very easily. But with single day admission media? All you could do is track it to an email addy, and, MAYBE, "cancel" the ticket. I agree: Disney should find a way to incorporate off site guests. But the way they choose to do that might not be the way we'd like (selling tickets with specific date ranges?) or it may introduce other issues to the system. And it still would require prepurchase of tickets and linking them to an account. No "buy them your first day at the ticket booths" kind of thing, which I suspect a lot of off site guests do.

very good points I had not thought of this. What we do agree though is that AP holders and offsite visitors aren't currently catered for a situation that needs to be rectified. I am an AP holder and you are right my 60 day window is tied to my DVC ressie. Maybe AP holders and day guests get so many FP+ added to their tickets and allocated at 3 a day. Then and if they book them in 60 days time and don't turn up they are then deducted from the ticket. There is some solution if you look hard enough Disney

 

[mom2rtk]

To those canceling future trips because of FP+ - would you reconsider future visits if you could purchase additional FP+ for a fee, or if you received additional FP+ for staying on-site?

I have really mixed feelings about that. I wouldn't purchase additional tickets. Purchasing back what I used to get for free would likely raise my price of admission by far more than 50%. I wouldn't do that just based on principle.

If I got more for staying onsite, I might go back, but not if it meant having to stay at a level higher than value just to get anything worthwhile.

I get that a lot of people think that's where this is heading, but I just can't wrap my head around it. I mean, if there's enough capacity to do that, where is that capacity NOW? Are they just keeping that capacity back unused, cheating the current visitors? If they are not holding anything back now anticipating that change, are the all of a sudden going to decrease the free daily FP pool by..... what? 25% 30% More?

I just can't see a way that goes well.