Disney does not want or need FastPass+ Haters business!

[mom2rtk]

yes true re Carsland! I haven't seen that yet I really want to! Long way from UK!

That makes sense re rolling it out fully at WDW first. I would imagine at DL a lot more offsite guests.

I was sad to read your post about your daughter growing up so fast and days at Disney limited and now made worse by FP+. The frustrating part for me is I did enjoy it but being quite ill I seldom could use 3. Before I use to give out the FP's we didn't use to very grateful guests. I couldn't find a way of doing it. It just felt such a waste. I wish there was a way of gifting them or putting them back in the pool for others to enjoy. There was no physical way of just booking one experience so we ended up booking 3 for the sake of it.

Thanks Paula. It really does come down to very personal considerations for each of us.

I really do hope that you find a way to make the new system work for you. We mostly used all of our legacy FPs but I do remember a time or two gifting them to some other guests. My daughter really enjoyed that. I remember one night going to Osborne lights with a set of TSMM FPs in hand to use when we were done. We were both tired and I agreed to let my daughter go pick out an adult/child combo to gift them to. It was a great way to end the evening.

My daughter is in 7th grade now and I did pull her out for a trip to DLR in December. I'm pretty sure I'll do the same in 8th grade, but after that the grades are all for "keeps" so we'll have to back off. Not sure what we'll do since we're not close enough to make weekend trips.

I knew all along that this time was coming, but I sure didn't expect to see FP+ complicate things for us even more at this point.

 

[MrInfinity]

Here is the premise of how the new FP+ is better. (not for a "runner" -- but in general)

Think of why FP- was invented.

Originally: You go to a ride. You stand in line an hour. You ride.

FP- intention: You go to a ride. You take a ticket. You come back in an hour, and ride. Instead of waiting in line, you get to go walk around and shop and eat.

Now introduce Commando Joe. Commando Joe does not go shop and eat. Commando Joe goes and "while waiting in line w his FP-" rides on another ride, then grabs an off-system FP- to another ride. Then comes back, rides, grabs another FP- ticket, and goes to his other off-system FP ride.

Commando Joe is going on rides even while waiting in line for rides, and it is not at all accomplishing what Disney wanted: Disney never wanted Commando Joe to get on MORE... rather, that he not have to stand there in a queue and can be spending money instead.

Just because Commando Joe figured out "heck I don't have to go do what they want, I'll go use this FP- system to get on more rides" does not mean he was ever entitled to that.

Now with FP+ you do the same thing. Instead of waiting thru a line for an hour, you block off an hour of your day. This time CANNOT be spent gathering other FP- tickets, which I think is what pisses off the FP- runners. Usually this "down-time" of waiting in line would be spent figuring out quick ways to get onto yet more rides. But now, you can't do that. You really have to go do something else. Which some % of the time will involve buying an extra drink, shopping a lil longer in a store while you wait, etc.

I get the annoyance of the FP-'ers. I really do! Before while you were waiting in line you could be FP-running for other rides. Now you literally just have to wait out your hour, or go standby (gasp!) on some other ride. But there are so many positives from the new system that it's hard for me to be too sympathetic to the "I'm never going again because of this" crowd. I will get on less as a result too, cuz I was pretty aggressive w FP-... But looking beyond just that I can see how our vacation will be better in other ways. You take the good w the bad and you go have fun.

Disney made a system. The system had some loopholes that allowed a small percentage of the visitors to go on a majority of the rides. They fixed the loopholes with technology. I really don't see anything wrong w this.

It's like... if your bank makes an error... and let's you get an extra $5 every time you withdraw from an ATM... via some "trick" other ppl could research on the internet if they wanted... then one day the bank fixes it, and you can no longer do that. So you cancel your account and never use that bank again?

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Thanks Paula. It really does come down to very personal considerations for each of us. I really do hope that you find a way to make the new system work for you. We mostly used all of our legacy FPs but I do remember a time or two gifting them to some other guests. My daughter really enjoyed that. I remember one night going to Osborne lights with a set of TSMM FPs in hand to use when we were done. We were both tired and I agreed to let my daughter go pick out an adult/child combo to gift them to. It was a great way to end the evening. My daughter is in 7th grade now and I did pull her out for a trip to DLR in December. I'm pretty sure I'll do the same in 8th grade, but after that the grades are all for "keeps" so we'll have to back off. Not sure what we'll do since we're not close enough to make weekend trips.

I completely agree everybody has different requirements which this system sadly does not supply. That is so nice your daughter picked out some lucky receivers of your FPs! It's a shame that you can't pull your DD from school after 8th grade as the expense and crowds must be a nightmare during holidays! We are sadly not gifted with darling children but I think that your daughter learnt more from gifting those folks FPs than a lot of school can teach Good luck! If I was there the same time as you and your family and there was a way I would gladly gift you my spare FP+'s.

 

[pilferk]

Yes, it's already been established Disney has had a record year, and Bob Iger went on record saying that they are able to service more guests at WDW as a direct result of MM+.

To be fair, here's what he said (according to you in an earlier thread..not sure how much paraphrasing you did):

"At Walt Disney World, close to 3K extra visitors a day can be serviced due to the innovation."

I'm not sure that means exactly what people think it does/did. IMHO, it's too vague, and could speak too much to theoretical capacity (rather than actual throughput) to be taken as de facto "proof" of anything.

 

[mom2rtk]

I completely agree everybody has different requirements which this system sadly does not supply. That is so nice your daughter picked out some lucky receivers of your FPs! It's a shame that you can't pull your DD from school after 8th grade as the expense and crowds must be a nightmare during holidays! We are sadly not gifted with darling children but I think that your daughter learnt more from gifting those folks FPs than a lot of school can teach Good luck! If I was there the same time as you and your family and there was a way I would gladly gift you my spare FP+'s.

What a sweetie. Thanks Paula.

 

[pilferk]

Here is the premise of how the new FP+ is better. (not for a "runner" -- but in general)

Think of why FP- was invented.

Originally: You go to a ride. You stand in line an hour. You ride.

FP- intention: You go to a ride. You take a ticket. You come back in an hour, and ride. Instead of waiting in line, you get to go walk around and shop and eat.

Now introduce Commando Joe. Commando Joe does not go shop and eat. Commando Joe goes and "while waiting in line w his FP-" rides on another ride, then grabs an off-system FP- to another ride. Then comes back, rides, grabs another FP- ticket, and goes to his other off-system FP ride.

Commando Joe is going on rides even while waiting in line for rides, and it is not at all accomplishing what Disney wanted: Disney never wanted Commando Joe to get on MORE... rather, that he not have to stand there in a queue and can be spending money instead.

I believe this to be true. It does not appear that Disney ever generated the increased shopping/dining revenue they thought they would with FP Legacy. In fact..I think that's largely why they stopped the guest education efforts and, thus, you saw fewer and fewer "regular" guests using the system. There was just no incentive for disney to push it

Just because Commando Joe figured out "heck I don't have to go do what they want, I'll go use this FP- system to get on more rides" does not mean he was ever entitled to that.

Here's where we part company. There is no such thing as "entitled" or "not entitled". If it was possible within the rules of the system, then they were well within their rights to do so. Intended? Maybe not. But the whole concept of "were people entitled" starts to smack of charging people with doing something wrong. And they weren't.

Now with FP+ you do the same thing. Instead of waiting thru a line for an hour, you block off an hour of your day. This time CANNOT be spent gathering other FP- tickets, which I think is what pisses off the FP- runners. Usually this "down-time" of waiting in line would be spent figuring out quick ways to get onto yet more rides. But now, you can't do that. You really have to go do something else. Which some % of the time will involve buying an extra drink, shopping a lil longer in a store while you wait, etc.

No, you don't. You really don't. You can park your butt on a bench, walkway, or in a standby line and not spend another dime. And..largely..that's what a good bulk of the complaints I'm reading are. Not so much "We're entitled to more" but "With these changes, we no longer find value in doing LESS". There is a difference. And nobody else can make a value calculation for another consumer.

They don't WANT to "spend more". They don't want to march to Disney's drummer in that respect. And...ultimately..they don't have to. I'm not sure why that offends so many people....

I get the annoyance of the FP-'ers. I really do! Before while you were waiting in line you could be FP-running for other rides. Now you literally just have to wait out your hour, or go standby (gasp!) on some other ride. But there are so many positives from the new system that it's hard for me to be too sympathetic to the "I'm never going again because of this" crowd. I will get on less as a result too, cuz I was pretty aggressive w FP-... But looking beyond just that I can see how our vacation will be better in other ways. You take the good w the bad and you go have fun.

YOU do.

Others...maybe the change is such that the benefits you're seeing don't apply to them.
Or their value calculation (based on actual history) no longer balances.

And that's OK.

Disney made a system. The system had some loopholes that allowed a small percentage of the visitors to go on a majority of the rides. They fixed the loopholes with technology. I really don't see anything wrong w this.

First....there WERE NO LOOPHOLES. At least once they networked all the machines in together (there were stragglers and they were well known). There were rules which you had to abide by...and so did everyone else. This bears repeating: THERE WERE NO LOOPHOLES.

I also wonder how true the above is.

My suspicion:

Disney made a system. Pushed the heck out of it when it launched. I'd guess distribution was more even at that point. There will always be outliers who use the system more (and less). But I'd guess, during the early push, you saw a much more even distribution of FPs over the total guest population.

As they realized this system, which was supposed to drive revenue to other CC's, WASN'T..they stopped pushing the system. They had no real fiscal reason to do so...and thus, the distribution got more and more uneven. As "new" guests, and the uninitiated guests, came..they were not properly educated on use of the system. Thus, the people who WERE educated, and who, over time, learned how to make efficient use of it, became a higher and higher total % of users (and an ever shrinking % of total guest population).

Disney then saw a way to adapt the system to possibly help accomplish the original goal with some added benefits. They did so.

IMHO: Nothing about this was about "fairness", "even distribution", or "fixing perceived loopholes". It wasn't about the guest, at all. It was about driving revenue enhancements and operational efficiencies. Evening out distribution wasn't about guest satisfaction, or even getting more people on specific rides...it was about the fact that they had to get the MOST number of people participating as possible in order to drive their predictives for operational efficiencies.

The guest effect are marketing fodder or service recovery opportunities (depending on your feelings re: the new system).

It's like... if your bank makes an error... and let's you get an extra $5 every time you withdraw from an ATM... via some "trick" other ppl could research on the internet if they wanted... then one day the bank fixes it, and you can no longer do that. So you cancel your account and never use that bank again?

No, it's nothing like that. Because you're stealing from your bank, by hook or by crook, in the above scenario. People using the FP Legacy system were decidedly not THIEVES...which is what you just implied.

It would only be like that IF your bank said "If you punch in this certain code we will LET you take an extra $5, no harm, no foul". And they pushed the benefit REALLY hard for about 2 years. And then they stopped telling new customers about it, and stopped advertising it. BUT, the benefit still remained for those that knew about it.

If, one day, your bank decides they no longer want to offer that benefit, and you decide to leave (because other banks offer a better value...either by fees, convenience, or customer experience)....I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing.

 

[flicx]

Here is the premise of how the new FP+ is better. (not for a "runner" -- but in general)

Think of why FP- was invented.

Originally: You go to a ride. You stand in line an hour. You ride.

FP- intention: You go to a ride. You take a ticket. You come back in an hour, and ride. Instead of waiting in line, you get to go walk around and shop and eat.

Now introduce Commando Joe. Commando Joe does not go shop and eat. Commando Joe goes and "while waiting in line w his FP-" rides on another ride, then grabs an off-system FP- to another ride. Then comes back, rides, grabs another FP- ticket, and goes to his other off-system FP ride.

Commando Joe is going on rides even while waiting in line for rides, and it is not at all accomplishing what Disney wanted: Disney never wanted Commando Joe to get on MORE... rather, that he not have to stand there in a queue and can be spending money instead.

Just because Commando Joe figured out "heck I don't have to go do what they want, I'll go use this FP- system to get on more rides" does not mean he was ever entitled to that.

Now with FP+ you do the same thing. Instead of waiting thru a line for an hour, you block off an hour of your day. This time CANNOT be spent gathering other FP- tickets, which I think is what pisses off the FP- runners. Usually this "down-time" of waiting in line would be spent figuring out quick ways to get onto yet more rides. But now, you can't do that. You really have to go do something else. Which some % of the time will involve buying an extra drink, shopping a lil longer in a store while you wait, etc.

I get the annoyance of the FP-'ers. I really do! Before while you were waiting in line you could be FP-running for other rides. Now you literally just have to wait out your hour, or go standby (gasp!) on some other ride. But there are so many positives from the new system that it's hard for me to be too sympathetic to the "I'm never going again because of this" crowd. I will get on less as a result too, cuz I was pretty aggressive w FP-... But looking beyond just that I can see how our vacation will be better in other ways. You take the good w the bad and you go have fun.

Disney made a system. The system had some loopholes that allowed a small percentage of the visitors to go on a majority of the rides. They fixed the loopholes with technology. I really don't see anything wrong w this.

It's like... if your bank makes an error... and let's you get an extra $5 every time you withdraw from an ATM... via some "trick" other ppl could research on the internet if they wanted... then one day the bank fixes it, and you can no longer do that. So you cancel your account and never use that bank again?

Through out this long post you miss one big point. Disney is a vendor. We are the customer. We are paying for these rides. I really don't care what Disney wants. I didn't pay to get in to have Disney tell me that I need to shop or eat or do other things. I am here to ride the rides. That is what the theme parks are for. So if I ride less and continue to pay more I am not a happy customer. Customers wants are vendors concerns, not the other way around! You every hear the customer is always right? Many think all us customers should be concerned with is Disney's bottom line. It's time for Disney to get back to worrying more about customer satisfaction. Start doing this and the bottom line will take care of itself!

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Someone asked early on in the thread if pre-FP trips were magical. No, standing in lines for hours was not fun. I only started getting PAP's after they were implemented, prior to that I was a once a year for a short trip person.

Why does the OP think AP people are cheap? We do not bring our lunch in a cooler, we do not stay off sight. We stay at a Deluxe at high demand time which at NYE is over $1,000 a night and this next NYE is higher than that at the Poly Hawaii BLDG where we stay. We always eat at sit down restaurants with ADR's because that is what we want. We never do counter service and we never do a dining package. We never book discount rooms yet the OP labeled AP and DVE owners as cheap. This person thinks we are cost cutting all the time, no we are not.

Disney has sent me 4 surveys since FP+ has been tested. My responses have not changed. Do I like FP+ -- NO. It restricts my vacations. I do not like the down time between rides because attractions that did not have FP have FP+. That is the issue. Those rides did not have old FP had waits but they were not bad even during the busy times like NYE. Now that has changed. The lines have increased since FP+ has started. Pirates and Haunted Mansion lines moved fast, no FP was needed. Now FP+ has created congestion. Lines are now where lines were not. If you have not been in the past two months do not compare. It has changed. It was the attractions lacking FP that we did in between FP rides. That is not an option now. You could miss your next FP+ time due to the long waits in the standby lines which equal the down time. Why risk missing your FP+? Only during the slow times is that an option and we have seen the longer wait times during slow times. It is crazy. To Disney, they even came out in the beginning and stated that FP+ would give guests time to experience other park offerings including shopping. No it does not.

We spend a lot of cash every year at WDW. The OP stated AP and DVC people don't spend money and Disney does not want them. We go to Disney every 6 to 8 weeks and we live in Iowa.

Kathy although we are not DVC owners, we stay 4-5 times a year and stay Deluxe CL waterview and we have a PAP.

And you have addressed my biggest concern. We no longer have the luxury of pulling our kids out of school and traveling in the slow times when touringplans had 1-2 crowd levels. This year it is spring break, Easter, Memorial Day, summer and next Christmas.

Remember the reason for FP- was started. To get people out of lines and into shops and restaurants. If SB lines go through the roof during the busy season it defeats the purpose.

We have been visiting once or twice annually for the past 5 years and bi annually before that. We maximized our FP usage and this is probably one of the main reasons why our trips were so wonderful. Waiting in line makes people (adults and kids alike) tired and cranky. We stay offsite and are visiting again at the end of March. So, no opportunity to plan our FP's ahead of time.

We already had our trip planned so no changing it. We will see how it goes. I can tell you that if we are going to be waiting in long lines, we will just leave. I know that I am not one of the overeaters at buffets. We like to ride the rides and eat at the restaurants. We also purchase our fair share of souveniors with every trip. So, they are potentially alienating a good customer not getting rid of a bad one as you suggest. And it won't persuade me to stay onsite. We have tried it several times and it is not for us.

I also won't stand in long lines. Whether or no we ride "Living with the Land" was always depended on the line. I now have a FP+ for this during our next trip. I completely see me using it because there will be long SB lines for everything else including LWTL. Because of the crowd level and the FP+ for attractions all SB lines will be longer so I feel like now I am limited to just three attractions per park.

Ummm...it's more than "just" FP+. Although, it is " the straw that broke the camel's back" for many loyal Disney fanatics. Enough is enough.

Yes. Add to that WDW is putting a ton of money into NextGen stuff but not into the parks, adding new attractions. World Showcase needs something.

I'm no business expert, but this seems like a major oversimplification of a very complex business.

This article does a great job explaining why - http://sidsavara.com/personal-productivity/the-problem-with-the-pareto-principle

"If you start searching for that mythical 20% that should be delivering 80% of your results, then you might find yourself cutting out activities which are actually essential to your success."

This is absolutely true for Disney. We are commando mega users of FP, RD, touring plans etc. And yet I would consider us part of Disney's 20% - with 5-digit onsite trips, 2 table service meals each day and 2 suitcases devoted just to souvenirs, we spend a lot of money on our trips. How did our commando touring and use of FP put us into the 80%?

I am an AP holder because our FP-filled 2012 trip was so great I decided to take another trip with my sister - spending an additional $2000 that I otherwise would not have if our commando touring hadn't been successful. How did my AP ownership put me into the 80%? I had booked another trip with my DD for this May before my AP runs out - the loss of value I felt with FP resulted in me canceling the trip. Disney directly lost $2000 because of the changes.

We ARE going back again next year, but we don't feel another 5-digit onsite trip is "worth it" given the diminished experience - and therefore perceived value - of our FP+ trip last month. Staying offsite saves us enough money to make up for the loss of value in experience - a cheaper price tag for a cheapened experience. Disney will still be making $5k from us for tickets and some food and souvenirs, but that is still a loss of $8k from what it could've been. This is really what Disney wants? We had strongly considered purchasing into DVC in the next few years and again, that is now off the table.

We ARE the 20%. Or at least we were.

Disney is not the sole supply outpost at the beginning of the Oregon Trail, servicing one-time-only desperate customers with little competition and no chance of a future relationship. I have 8 children and they are future Disney customers - that future profit will be largely determined based on the experiences we have in the present.

There is no easy way to separate the supposed 20/80 for something like Disney World, and if that really entered into the thought processes of some executives when they came up with all this (which I doubt), then they are incredibly shortsighted and most likely, sadly mistaken.

We already have this year planned out and if the trips are less magical than in the past I am ready to return to Ireland, London and will get up the courage to go to Italy. We have other options.

Universal is cheaper. In all ways. You have to then rent a car or cab if you want to go off property.

With little ones I personally think of the time value of money. Lugging them back to the car at the end of the night, waking them up, paying for parking each day, no thanks.

I do think the hotels at Disney for Deluxe are overpriced, but there is someone out there wiling to pay it, so I cannot begrudge Disney for maximizing profits.

Lines are great times for me to talk and spend time with my family. Which is, to me, the point of my vacation. Naturally I wouldn.t wait in a 60 minute line, but I am confident once the glitches are worked out, that won't be the case for most rides.

I enjoy getting my vacation packet months in advance, discussing dining options with my husband, talking about strategies, all of that is part of my vacation experience so this new plan is right up my alley.

Sorry people do not like it, but I have never had a problem in the past two years walking up to Le Cellier and Ohana and getting in. I do not go in summer or school vacation weeks so I understand that frustration. However, if you truly love something and feel like you are a die hard fan, then you will find a way to make changes work for you and your family.

If this pushes someone to Universal instead, have at it. I do not understand the need to freak out on those of us who either like or want to give the new system a chance before we stomp our feet and start threatening to take our toys to a different sandbox. Give it a chance!

Comcast has invested quite a bit in the last few years and Diagon Alley (if it is up over the summer) will fill the park.

There is a HUGE difference traveling during peak season and off season and until your kids get to high school I strongly encourage you take your kids out during the year and continue to do so.

I am a die hard Disney fan just not a foolish one. I can clearly tell something has been taken away without replacing it with something else. Maybe Club Level guests should get extra FP+. I'm not sure how limiting the number of FP+ for us benefits us. Disney is a business and I'm a careful consumer.

This August we are going to Orlando for 10 days. So although we have PAP's I am moving from the BC over to Portofino Bay where included in my stay will be the Express Pass. Since I have to buy tickets it WILL NOT be cheaper. I am not "freaking out" just giving my family a better experience. I've been to WDW in August before and now that I am limited to Soarin' twice a day and a line at TT either single rider which isn't as much fun or a long SB line I will not enjoy my experience as much. I am not childishly stomping my feet, rather giving this a good hard look and planning on long SB lines.

If you enjoy long SB lines with your family, good for you, however, I like to enjoy other things with family in particular the entertainment in the WS. I get a schedule and bring a highlighter and work around the afternoon Soarin' FP I most likely have.

Perhaps with CC holds have changed the number of ADR's so restaurants aren't as full so I will reserve judgement on that but I HAVE SEEN the signs put up in the morning informing guests that all restaurants are full in the WS for the day. I felt so sorry for the family having a serious meltdown because they had the dining plan and no place to use their TS credits and counter service lines out the door. Can't blame them, they paid for something that they couldn't get.

In that respect, FP+ isn't free either. Neither is parking for onsite guests. Neither is anything Disney provides.

And with an AP, you can still get RP for $125 during certain times, and those 3 hotels are far and away nicer than anything Disney has.

There was an interesting article I read recently detailing the two very different approaches that Disney and Comcast are taking with their parks in order to increase revenue. Comcast has decided to invest in additional attractions, hotels and restaurants, Disney has mostly decided to try and figure out how much more they can squeeze out of their already existing customer base.

Most marketers would give anything for long term brand loyalty.

Pete said in a earlier disunplugged episode that Disney does not need a loyalty program, so it discontinued the old one whose name escapes me. We used to be complete loyalists, however, after our last cruise we stayed at the Ritz for a night using a free room. If I am correct, last time I looked you don't get extra points for buying anything Disney on the Disney Visa (Maybe the premium does but it was not a bargain for us). However, as a Platinum Ritz I get a 50% bonus on every dollar I spend at the Ritz.

Regardless of what Universal makes on Express there is no doubt that Comcast has been spending money like a drunken shopaholic. I doubt that Express has much to do with that.

However I have said that I would pay for extra FP+. If they go that route then I'd actually be less concerned about all of this.

Same here. Maybe extra FP+ a day for deluxe hotels something to link spending more with getting something extra.

 

[MrInfinity]

Through out this long post you miss one big point. Disney is a vendor. We are the customer. We are paying for these rides. I really don't care what Disney wants. I didn't pay to get in to have Disney tell me that I need to shop or eat or do other things. I am here to ride the rides. That is what the theme parks are for. So if I ride less and continue to pay more I am not a happy customer. Customers wants are vendors concerns, not the other way around! You every hear the customer is always right? Many think all us customers should be concerned with is Disney's bottom line. It's time for Disney to get back to worrying more about customer satisfaction. Start doing this and the bottom line will take care of itself!

Yes!
You want the rides.
Disney OWNS the rides.

Disney can market these rides to maximize profit because they have something we want. Disney does not want you to get on them, Disney wants you to want them so you'll pay more and more

Everybody wants to ride more, and pay less. That is the opposite of what a business is striving for. The business wants ppl to ride a number of rides that makes them on average optimally content to be spending money elsewhere on the property

Simple laws of supply and demand are in play here. The rides are completely under-supplied and over-demanded! Therefore Disney can, and will, dole their rides out in the fashion that makes them the most money.

If they can get 80k ppl thru their park riding 6 times... or... only let them ride 3, then have them go home, now all of a sudden Disney can handle 160k ppl thru the same park riding 3x each instead of 80k riding 6x each. Even if 10k drop out of the picture, Disney wins.

If your only goal is to ride rides at the parks, then you are severely disadvantaged cuz then Disney essentially holds you over a barrel so to speak. If "shopping", "eating", "drinking", "renting" and "touring" aren't as enjoyable to you... then you aren't as useful to Disney as Disney is to you.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

To those canceling future trips because of FP+ - would you reconsider future visits if you could purchase additional FP+ for a fee, or if you received additional FP+ for staying on-site?

Absolutely! If I can get it for multiple parks or multiple headliners such as both Soarin' and TT.

When the new value hotel opens at Universal it will not include the Express pass. However, anyone can purchase Express pass. So why not add one for the deluxe hotels and have people purchase extra?

 

[MrInfinity]

And you have addressed my biggest concern. We no longer have the luxury of pulling our kids out of school and traveling in the slow times when touringplans had 1-2 crowd levels. This year it is spring break, Easter, Memorial Day, summer and next Christmas.

I really feel for ppl who have to go in the summer or on break. Sometimes that's just the way it is. I won't do it... it's a lot of work to pull our kids out of school but the experience justifies it to me. If for some reason that was not an option... we'd probly "suffer" and go in the summer. But, I'd be planning longer trips at cheaper resorts to get more FP's.

I also won't stand in long lines. Whether or no we ride "Living with the Land" was always depended on the line. I now have a FP+ for this during our next trip. I completely see me using it because there will be long SB lines for everything else including LWTL.

I'm really interested to see how LWTL will be on my May trip. Should I FP this? I think because ppl will have time to kill waiting for their Soarin slots, LWTL will be heavier.

Add to that WDW is putting a ton of money into NextGen stuff but not into the parks, adding new attractions. World Showcase needs something.

See I think they're doing tons for the parks. This year MK. Next year AK. After that, I think we'll see HS get revitalized and Star Wars brought into it in a bigger way. Disney didn't buy this entity for nothing, and execs have hinted along the lines of... "it would be unreasonable to think we didn't have high expectations for the franchise" (?) [paraphrasing, speaking of lucas]. I personally have nothing but confidence that Disney is going to handle the acquisition of Lucas in nothing but a spectacular fashion.

Same here. Maybe extra FP+ a day for deluxe hotels something to link spending more with getting something extra.

Yeah I think this will come after FP+ is rolled out. Otherwise they are disincentivizing you from staying in a Deluxe, since you can get double the FPs by "downgrading" to a Value and going twice as long for the same money. I think in time we'll see a 3-4-5 structure for Val-Mod-Dlx. Just my speculation.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

Yes!
You want the rides.
Disney OWNS the rides.

Disney can market these rides to maximize profit because they have something we want. Disney does not want you to get on them, Disney wants you to want them so you'll pay more and more

Everybody wants to ride more, and pay less. That is the opposite of what a business is striving for. The business wants ppl to ride a number of rides that makes them on average optimally content to be spending money elsewhere on the property

Simple laws of supply and demand are in play here. The rides are completely under-supplied and over-demanded! Therefore Disney can, and will, dole their rides out in the fashion that makes them the most money.

If they can get 80k ppl thru their park riding 6 times... or... only let them ride 3, then have them go home, now all of a sudden Disney can handle 160k ppl thru the same park riding 3x each instead of 80k riding 6x each. Even if 10k drop out of the picture, Disney wins.

If your only goal is to ride rides at the parks, then you are severely disadvantaged cuz then Disney essentially holds you over a barrel so to speak. If "shopping", "eating", "drinking", "renting" and "touring" aren't as enjoyable to you... then you aren't as useful to Disney as Disney is to you.

I don't want to "just ride rides" I want to avoid standing in line, there is a big difference.

I do shop, eat, drink (especially enjoyable to me is a glass of wine watching the WS players, seen the show dozens of times and laugh every time) and love the behind the seeds tour. I've taken it several times. I also always buy a plant.

What if the 10K that is alienated are the loyal big spenders?

 

[EMode]

No, you don't. You really don't. You can park your butt on a bench, walkway, or in a standby line and not spend another dime. And..largely..that's what a good bulk of the complaints I'm reading are. Not so much "We're entitled to more" but "With these changes, we no longer find value in doing LESS". There is a difference. And nobody else can make a value calculation for another consumer.

They don't WANT to "spend more". They don't want to march to Disney's drummer in that respect. And...ultimately..they don't have to. I'm not sure why that offends so many people....

You are spot on here.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I really feel for ppl who have to go in the summer or on break. Sometimes that's just the way it is. I won't do it... it's a lot of work to pull our kids out of school but the experience justifies it to me. If for some reason that was not an option... we'd probly "suffer" and go in the summer. But, I'd be planning longer trips at cheaper resorts to get more FP's.

I don't know how old your kids are but once you get to High School it is expressly forbidden. I have 2-10 day trips planned, one in June and one in August, that is plenty

I'm really interested to see how LWTL will be on my May trip. Should I FP this? I think because ppl will have time to kill waiting for their Soarin slots, LWTL will be heavier.

I think all SB lines are going to go through the roof as rides that did not have FP become more like PP. The more people in the FP, the longer the SB line


See I think they're doing tons for the parks. This year MK. Next year AK. After that, I think we'll see HS get revitalized and Star Wars brought into it in a bigger way. Disney didn't buy this entity for nothing, and execs have hinted along the lines of... "it would be unreasonable to think we didn't have high expectations for the franchise" (?) [paraphrasing, speaking of lucas]. I personally have nothing but confidence that Disney is going to handle the acquisition of Lucas in nothing but a spectacular fashion.

We only have a limited time with our kids. I never went to Universal with my kids until WWoHP opened. It got me through the door. MK's new expansion of Fantsyland is too late for me, and by the time AK and DHS upgrade they will be gone.



Yeah I think this will come after FP+ is rolled out. Otherwise they are disincentivizing you from staying in a Deluxe, since you can get double the FPs by "downgrading" to a Value and going twice as long for the same money. I think in time we'll see a 3-4-5 structure for Val-Mod-Dlx. Just my speculation.

I'll see how this year plays out. I would like to hear some data on whether FP+ turnes first time visitors into repeat visitors. Disney does extensive marketing and I wonder if they've tapped out the first time visitor market including all of the overseas marketing that they do. You only get to enjoy your first time once.

 

[MrInfinity]

I don't know how old your kids are but once you get to High School it is expressly forbidden.

Interesting. Didn't know HS's did this. Definitely food for thought in planning ahead!!

We only have a limited time with our kids. I never went to Universal with my kids until WWoHP opened. It got me through the door. MK's new expansion of Fantsyland is too late for me, and by the time AK and DHS upgrade they will be gone.

There's always grandkids right?

HP is the deal-maker for us too. I'm already thinking of a split-stay in 2015 for US and WDW. I would love to see Diagon.

 

[mom2rtk]

Interesting. Didn't know HS's did this. Definitely food for thought in planning ahead!!

That varies a lot by district. It's not forbidden here by any means. But whether it is advisable is an entirely different matter.

We planned to take my son out for a week his freshman year of high school and all the teachers (plus the district) were fine with it. At the last minute he decided to go out for the soccer team so stayed behind with my husband for 2 of those days. He still missed 3 days and it still wasn't a problem. I still don't know if we will do that when my daughter is in high school in 2 years. The risks are just a lot greater in high school that they might miss something critical.

 

[MrInfinity]

That varies a lot by district. It's not forbidden here by any means. But whether it is advisable is an entirely different matter.

We planned to take my son out for a week his freshman year of high school and all the teachers (plus the district) were fine with it. At the last minute he decided to go out for the soccer team so stayed behind with my husband for 2 of those days. He still missed 3 days and it still wasn't a problem. I still don't know if we will do that when my daughter is in high school in 2 years. The risks are just a lot greater in high school that they might miss something critical.

Curious, what do you think are better or worse times to miss for a high-schooler? Did you ask ahead for when they would have standardized tests and stuff to not miss particular weeks?

I was thinking our next trips would be a Dec trip and an Oct trip, cuz we've never done those... In Dec 2015 our oldest would be in 7th so it's no biggie. Then an Oct 2017 trip would put him at Freshman in HS, after just having started High School that fall. Now that I think about how the timing works out, that would be rough.

 

[mom2rtk]

Curious, what do you think are better or worse times to miss for a high-schooler? Did you ask ahead for when they would have standardized tests and stuff to not miss particular weeks?

I was thinking our next trips would be a Dec trip and an Oct trip, cuz we've never done those... In Dec 2015 our oldest would be in 7th so it's no biggie. Then an Oct 2017 trip would put him at Freshman in HS, after just having started High School that fall. Now that I think about how the timing works out, that would be rough.

We have an older son so we had a pretty good idea of the critical times. It really is just the obvious.... nothing near the end of a semester, nothing in the spring leading up to when I knew they would be doing standardized testing.

We did a late September trip the year we took our freshman son out. He had no problem catching back up. It helped that it was early in the semester so there was plenty of time in case he missed the rollout on any important concepts.

He graduated last year, and it turned out that the only class that separated several of them was pre-AP Biology that freshman year. I was really happy our decision to pull him out did not make a difference for him. But that perspective does make me want to be more cautious pulling our daughter out. If I do, it will likely be around a couple days they have off in the fall already, and our trip would likely turn into 6 days instead of the 9 or 10 day trips we have been able to do up to now.

 

[pilferk]

I don't know how old your kids are but once you get to High School it is expressly forbidden. I have 2-10 day trips planned, one in June and one in August, that is plenty.

FYI: That largely depends on your schools system.

Ours is pretty permissive, when it comes to family trips, unless you abuse it.

There is truancy language in our handbook, and it expressly outlines the procedure and policy for excused absences. In essence, you have to alert them in advance...and they don't send work home before your trip. Expectation is that the work is made up within 1 week of your return to school.

Everyone's mileage will vary, though.

 

[pilferk]

Curious, what do you think are better or worse times to miss for a high-schooler? Did you ask ahead for when they would have standardized tests and stuff to not miss particular weeks?

I was thinking our next trips would be a Dec trip and an Oct trip, cuz we've never done those... In Dec 2015 our oldest would be in 7th so it's no biggie. Then an Oct 2017 trip would put him at Freshman in HS, after just having started High School that fall. Now that I think about how the timing works out, that would be rough.

According to our school board (and teachers we've talked to):

Early (late Sept and early Oct) and just after midterms (late Jan/early Feb).