Disney Direct Tricks?

[Sur]

No

 

[twinsouvenirs]

Just this past weekend, our DVC sales person told us that in addition to losing RCI, Disney Cruise, etc., people purchasing resale would not be able to use their points at any DVC resort that opens after the resale takes place. For example, that would mean someone buying resale today would not be able to purchase DVC at the Polly when that opens. I asked the sales ugh several times in several different ways if I was understanding him correctly and he insisted this was a recent change. Anyone else hear this tidbit?

This is technically possible per the IPO but as to ALL contracts, direct and resale. I have not heard this, and I believe they could not single out resales on that provision without severely restricting their own administrative systems--they'd have to figure in how many points were then not available for trade with the direct owners. eg- if you are resale at VWL and you get locked out of Poly, those points are likely not available for a Poly user to rent/exchange, since the hotels are all individual but in reciprocal exchanges within dvc. Or at least that's one thing I'd argue at meetings. The element of exchange and flexibility is one of the most attractive pieces of the direct sale.

 

[mmdisneylover]

Our first tour back in 2000 had no sales tactics or scare tatics. Doug Rapper gave use the info and told us to take it home and look it over and give him a call later no pressure. Loved that about him now I hear he's a big wig there. I guess they have to do whatever they need to to make a sale but that would just discourage me.

 

[CMOORE185]

As I said, our first priority was to have the VGF as our home resort, and have that 4mos booking window ahead of everyone else. While you may have gotten the VGF right now, I don't think the resort will be that easy to book in the upcoming year--especially with only a 7mos window. We were never GF people in the past, but when we walked the resort (DVC), we fell in love with it. Did we probably overpay a little--yes. Were we able to have the home resort we loved--MOST certainly yes. We made the decision based from not being able to get our favorite resorts this past trip, and kind of being disappointed with the WL room this time. We didn't want that to happen again, so we booked at a resort that we fell in love with, and would be happy with the rooms. If that is getting ripped off, then so be it. I looked into resale, and it has its own problems/issues, so either way there is something not to like. We may choose to buy more points on resale, but I do not regret my VGF purchase whatsoever. AND, if finances get tight in the future---I would think the VGF has a nice resale value that we can get back out from under it.

Congrats on your VGF purchase. VGF is the only resort at this stage I would consider buying direct. Alas I already have 500 points and do not need more.

When I purchased there was not a great difference between pricing of resale vs direct so I bought direct. But at this point I think I would go resale unless I had to have a certain resort like VGF.

I wish you many memorable years at VGF.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[lovin'fl]

Just this past weekend, our DVC sales person told us that in addition to losing RCI, Disney Cruise, etc., people purchasing resale would not be able to use their points at any DVC resort that opens after the resale takes place. For example, that would mean someone buying resale today would not be able to purchase DVC at the Polly when that opens. I asked the sales ugh several times in several different ways if I was understanding him correctly and he insisted this was a recent change. Anyone else hear this tidbit?

can't buy at Poly or can't use points at Poly?

 

[DannysMom]

Just this past weekend, our DVC sales person told us that in addition to losing RCI, Disney Cruise, etc., people purchasing resale would not be able to use their points at any DVC resort that opens after the resale takes place. For example, that would mean someone buying resale today would not be able to purchase DVC at the Polly when that opens. I asked the sales ugh several times in several different ways if I was understanding him correctly and he insisted this was a recent change. Anyone else hear this tidbit?

That sounds like a bit of salesman's misinformation. As that is clearly NOT how the system is currently set up.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos or autocorrects!

 

[fuernj]

can't buy at Poly or can't use points at Poly?

Sorry I wasn't more clear. The sales guy said if you bought DVC resale, you couldn't use DVC points to stay at a DVC resort that opened after the resale purchase. Sounded shady to me. Call me naive but I never thought of Disney as ever being shady or misleading. Then again, this was my first experience with a DVC salesperson.

 

[CarolMN]

Sorry I wasn't more clear. The sales guy said if you bought DVC resale, you couldn't use DVC points to stay at a DVC resort that opened after the resale purchase. ....(snip).......

That is not currently true and so far, has never been true.

Doesn't mean they aren't talking about doing that or that they couldn't do it in the future, but IMO, it is very unlikely. It would would require a lot of effort and changes.

For example, if they were to prevent resale points from reserving the Poly, that means that Poly points would be unable to reserve the portions of the existing resorts that are "owned" by resale points. That might not be much of a selling point for the Poly, because meany members like to stay at different places. There are a lot of resale points out there. Plus there would have to be a lot of changes for booking and to keep track of all the contract changes. - remember, once direct points are sold, those points now become resale points (unless Disney wants to buy the points back).

For all of the existing DVC resorts, the total number of direct points will always be decreasing since once they change hands they will be resale points (unless Disney buys the points back). Theoretically, members with Poly direct points could end up virtually shut out from the older resorts.

Anyway there is so much to think about & do before Disney can implement any program to prevent resale points from accessing a new resort! I just don't see it happening.

 

[Judique]

Just want to welcome you to Disney Vacation Club - WELCOME HOME!!!

Also a special thanks for purchasing GFV's so that I can use my points to stay there at 7 months.

I was able to book 4 nights for my February trip - doing a split stay and also staying at my home resort.

I also checked out the 7 month status for today and at 8am there was some availability in studios. Later there was still full week open for one bedrooms.

We will have to be quick to catch those studios!

I like to stay at every new resort. I've done all the Florida ones except GFV but that is coming in Feb.

You've bought a gorgeous resort and I think you will be pretty happy with your new home.

 

[Minniesgal]

That is not currently true and so far, has never been true. Doesn't mean they aren't talking about doing that or that they couldn't do it in the future, but IMO, it is very unlikely. It would would require a lot of effort and changes. For example, if they were to prevent resale points from reserving the Poly, that means that Poly points would be unable to reserve the portions of the existing resorts that are "owned" by resale points. That might not be much of a selling point for the Poly, because meany members like to stay at different places. There are a lot of resale points out there. Plus there would have to be a lot of changes for booking and to keep track of all the contract changes. - remember, once direct points are sold, those points now become resale points (unless Disney wants to buy the points back). For all of the existing DVC resorts, the total number of direct points will always be decreasing since once they change hands they will be resale points (unless Disney buys the points back). Theoretically, members with Poly direct points could end up virtually shut out from the older resorts. Anyway there is so much to think about & do before Disney can implement any program to prevent resale points from accessing a new resort! I just don't see it happening.

I totally agree, I would hate to see Disney attempt to install and operate a system this complex on recent MDE performance.

 

[BenDiscipio]

I totally agree, I would hate to see Disney attempt to install and operate a system this complex on recent MDE performance.

I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

There should be a CLEAR advantage to buying direct so, from my vantage point, they have three options:

1: Do what is spoken about in this thread and limit the use of resale points to only resorts built prior to the resale....or they could limit it even more by limiting resale points to resorts built by the time of the initial sale.

2: Reduce the DVC point costs for the currently limited collection of offerings, which right now are cheaper to pay cash for....like the disney cruise line, etc.

3: Barring the first 2 options, they could roll out some regular incentives, perhaps season pass discounts, etc. to those who purchased direct only.

Whatever option they choose, they must do something. A company rarely will allow their sales floor to operate with such an obvious impediment to sales. Disney is far to profitable, big, and savvy to allow this to continue. I think the writing has been on the wall for a little while now on this....

 

[BenDiscipio]

Too often on these boards, direct buyers are treated almost like newbie idiots for buying direct. Disney is allowing that to happen. In what business would a company allow that type of situation to continue? It is terrible business ....

Now, there's a fine line and gray area to this as, obviously, Disney needs to allow resale to be a viable alternative for people as, without a viable resale market, the timeshares would lose value after purchase.

But right now, the pendulum has swung too far against them...they need to gain some traction back. Right now, the only reason to buy direct is the 11 month window at a sought-after resort....that isn't enough, especially when they're trying to sell properties currently on the resale market.

 

[Missyrose]

I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

There should be a CLEAR advantage to buying direct so, from my vantage point, they have three options:

1: Do what is spoken about in this thread and limit the use of resale points to only resorts built prior to the resale....or they could limit it even more by limiting resale points to resorts built by the time of the initial sale.

2: Reduce the DVC point costs for the currently limited collection of offerings, which right now are cheaper to pay cash for....like the disney cruise line, etc.

3: Barring the first 2 options, they could roll out some regular incentives, perhaps season pass discounts, etc. to those who purchased direct only.

Whatever option they choose, they must do something. A company rarely will allow their sales floor to operate with such an obvious impediment to sales. Disney is far to profitable, big, and savvy to allow this to continue. I think the writing has been on the wall for a little while now on this....

Why do you care so much if Disney's sales are being cannibalized? And for the record, Disney gets far more contracts back via foreclosure each month than get sold on the resale market, so it doesn't really seem to be the big problem you seem to think it is.

 

[dmunsil]

I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

I see your point, and I don't think it's a crazy way to think about it, but I think there's another way to look at it.

The people who are going to sell are going to sell, for the most part. It's actually not a very large percentage of the owners, because most people are happy with their DVC ownership. But some people, every year, will want to sell. And those people can find a buyer at some price, so almost all of those contracts will find buyers. Some will get withdrawn if the seller can't get a price they like, but most sellers are motivated to get out.

If Disney adds extra restrictions, it's not going to slow down or stop resales a significant amount. It might make resales less attractive to some people, which means the prices will have to fall until enough bargain hunters come in and buy.

If Disney got serious about making resale prices high, they would have no trouble competing with resale. On the contrary, high resale prices would be a great validator for higher direct prices.

And I can't speak for everyone, but whenever Disney adds restrictions it makes me mad because it lowers the resale value of my points if I ever want to sell. And if I was a potential buyer talking to a salesperson and they touted all the special amenities that only people who bought direct get, I would immediately think, "so then my ownership will drop in price even more when I try to sell, because of all the amenities that aren't transferable."

Obviously not everyone thinks of these things, but there must be more than me. Every restriction you add drives down the resale values, which makes some existing owners upset, and makes some buyers less likely to buy because these maneuvers show that Disney is not going to act to preserve the value of their ownership.

Frankly I don't doubt that the sales staff wants more resale restrictions but I hope that their opinion doesn't win out, because it's really short-term thinking and (IMO) not in Disney's best interests.

 

[Dean]

Just this past weekend, our DVC sales person told us that in addition to losing RCI, Disney Cruise, etc., people purchasing resale would not be able to use their points at any DVC resort that opens after the resale takes place. For example, that would mean someone buying resale today would not be able to purchase DVC at the Polly when that opens. I asked the sales ugh several times in several different ways if I was understanding him correctly and he insisted this was a recent change. Anyone else hear this tidbit?

The only way they could do this would be to start a new timeshare system where all current owners would either have no access or be limited as DVD saw fit. It would only be for future resorts (or unsold current resort converted over) that were not part of the DVC. What they couldn't do would be to include the resort inside the current DVC but limit it to retail or qualified buyers.

I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

There should be a CLEAR advantage to buying direct so, from my vantage point, they have three options:

1: Do what is spoken about in this thread and limit the use of resale points to only resorts built prior to the resale....or they could limit it even more by limiting resale points to resorts built by the time of the initial sale.

2: Reduce the DVC point costs for the currently limited collection of offerings, which right now are cheaper to pay cash for....like the disney cruise line, etc.

3: Barring the first 2 options, they could roll out some regular incentives, perhaps season pass discounts, etc. to those who purchased direct only.

Whatever option they choose, they must do something. A company rarely will allow their sales floor to operate with such an obvious impediment to sales. Disney is far to profitable, big, and savvy to allow this to continue. I think the writing has been on the wall for a little while now on this....

From a business model I don't disagree with you but I'd point out their options are limited. They cannot prevent access to DVC resorts and it's dramatically unlikely they could prevent access to RCI. All else is on the table. Some are naive enough to think DVC can do this by simply adding additional perks for qualified points but in reality, the only way to do it successfully is to make it painful not to have qualified points and that means significant limitations to non qualified points. Since they can't limit DVC resort access to current resorts, that means a significant loss of other options for non qualified points.

Too often on these boards, direct buyers are treated almost like newbie idiots for buying direct. Disney is allowing that to happen. In what business would a company allow that type of situation to continue? It is terrible business ....

Now, there's a fine line and gray area to this as, obviously, Disney needs to allow resale to be a viable alternative for people as, without a viable resale market, the timeshares would lose value after purchase.

But right now, the pendulum has swung too far against them...they need to gain some traction back. Right now, the only reason to buy direct is the 11 month window at a sought-after resort....that isn't enough, especially when they're trying to sell properties currently on the resale market.

For most situations it is foolish to buy retail if one is aware of the options, there are some very few exceptions. Personally I don't think resale value has any impact on sales. Almost no one is going to go in thinking they'll sell later and buy retail with very few exceptions. Plus the only way to support retail is to hurt resale. It is not their responsibility to support the resale market. They'd be just as happy, likely more so, if you couldn't even sell it. EVERY resale purchased is a possible lost retail sale, those that say they would not have bougth except for retail do not affect this reality.

 

[Minniesgal]

If you look at the percentage numbers of original owners at all resorts resale is small beef to Disney and probably just noise around the lucrative direct market. I can't see them being motivated to implement a very complex system to deal with it

 

[jasonv1]

Building on this post and the one it replied to....

I wouldn't have bought at all without the resale market. The resale market is valuable though as it is going to get me to the park more than in the past, which will generate far more revenue than the supposed "loss" of a DVC direct sale.

Restricting resale points further, like blocking them from using Poly if/when it goes live, won't really work because it wouldn't cover resale points bought *after* Poly was introduced. To achieve that they would really have to put a hard end date on the current system, saying that resale points bought after X can't be used for new DVC resorts.

As someone who will be giving Disney more vacation business than in the past, but not yet the majority of my vacation business (cruises), anything they do that restricts my options is only going to hurt them down the line.

The best thing to do would be to give direct buyers new privileges. Lowering the cruise points cost won't happen unless there are sustained periods where the boat is not full. As to the other resorts that only direct buyers can now access, I'm not sure how much of a selling point that is to the average buyer who just wants to go to the park every X months. If you can offer people something that gets them onto the property more, the cost of that benefit may very well be offset by the additional revenue of having them there.

From my standpoint, I would just want buying direct to be close in cost to buying resale, even if I have to make it up over the course of a year or two. The following are things that could sway me to buy direct:

• Double my points for a year, even if the extra can't be banked
• Half off resort points costs during low periods for X year(s)
• Dining plan upgrades
• Tickets to one or more theme park after hours events (Christmas, Food/Wine, Halloween, etc) for X year(s)
• X annual passes for X year(s)
• Free room upgrades (when available) upon check-in (restrict for X number of visits if required)

I'm not saying all of these are required, but if I can do the math and see that I'm getting back enough (in my mind) to justify the direct purchase, I'd do it. What do they really lose if they get me in the park more? If they upgrade my dining plan it is unlikely I'd eat all the allowed food anyway. And more points, or reduced points costs, or annual passes will only get me to the park more, which earns them revenue (but unfortunately no revenue for DVC). Room upgrades upon arrival cost nothing if the room wasn't going to be occupied.

From a business standpoint Disney as a whole should want me to step onto their property more, not less. Resale points will get me there every 6-24 months, whereas in the past it was every 3-5 years.

At the end of the day, DVC direct sales are a separate business that has to look out for its own bottom line, which is why these restrictions happen. It isn't there job to get you on the property, just to sell you the contract. Me? I just want to go to the park *more* and stay somewhere nice. If they want me to buy direct, they need to give me something that will get me to the park more (even if temporary), or increase my enjoyment of my time there in some way. The cruises are a bit too expensive to me given that I vacation 3-4 weeks a year, and trips outside the US48 will be rare due to airfare costs, so I need perks that involve the parks.

Whatever happens, I hope it only impacts new resales. I would also hope that we get notice ahead of time so we can add points if needed. Changing the rules on existing customers will make some people hesitate when considering adding points down the line.

Why do you care so much if Disney's sales are being cannibalized? And for the record, Disney gets far more contracts back via foreclosure each month than get sold on the resale market, so it doesn't really seem to be the big problem you seem to think it is.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...From my standpoint, I would just want buying direct to be close in cost to buying resale, even if I have to make it up over the course of a year or two. The following are things that could sway me to buy direct:

• Double my points for a year, even if the extra can't be banked
• Half off resort points costs during low periods for X year(s)
• Dining plan upgrades
• Tickets to one or more theme park after hours events (Christmas, Food/Wine, Halloween, etc) for X year(s)
• X annual passes for X year(s)
• Free room upgrades (when available) upon check-in (restrict for X number of visits if required)

....

DVC has offered Builder's inventory for stays, but those points were limited in use to a specific resort (in that case, SSR, where there was a lot of inventory). They can't produce points out of nothing. And if they give you points, they can't sell those points until the next year.

Any other incentives have to be cost effective. I.E, not cost DVD money, such as hard event tickets, annual passes, dining plan upgrades, room upgrades (that would not take away from selling villas to pay for DVC member non-DVC trips which can be expensive). DVD has to pay for all those since those perks would come from another Disney division.

Maybe meet and greets for direct buyers. Maybe TOTWL for direct buyers only (and any BLT member guest).

 

[Dean]

If you look at the percentage numbers of original owners at all resorts resale is small beef to Disney and probably just noise around the lucrative direct market. I can't see them being motivated to implement a very complex system to deal with it

Then why go there at all? They've already started this ball rolling, if they didn't see it as important, they never would have initiated the current restrictions. EVERY resale is a potential lost retail sale and every lost retail sale is lost margin.

I wouldn't have bought at all without the resale market. The resale market is valuable though as it is going to get me to the park more than in the past, which will generate far more revenue than the supposed "loss" of a DVC direct sale.

You would be the exception but Disney doesn't care if they lose a resale buyer, only that they lose ENOUGH retail buyers that the change clearly hurts them more than it helps them.

Restricting resale points further, like blocking them from using Poly if/when it goes live, won't really work because it wouldn't cover resale points bought *after* Poly was introduced. To achieve that they would really have to put a hard end date on the current system, saying that resale points bought after X can't be used for new DVC resorts.

Not exactly accurate. What they'd have to do would be to create a new and separate timeshare system. They could then allow access to some and not others if they so chose depending on the rules in place for the new system. I think you're assuming that the current restrictions at the time of purchase are locked and that is NOT the case. Disney could have made the changes they did 3 years ago retroactive to ALL resale buyers and they can add additional restrictions to those unqualified points as they see fit assuming those restrictions are not in violation of the POS and related documents. Essentially they can't differentiate on usage at club resorts (current or future) but they can remove EVERYTHING else if they want.

As someone who will be giving Disney more vacation business than in the past, but not yet the majority of my vacation business (cruises), anything they do that restricts my options is only going to hurt them down the line.

Unlikely. This is one of the beauties of a timeshare system from Disney's standpoint. In all likelihood someone will use the room whether it's you, me or someone else. At that point Disney as a whole will get some money and DVC loses nothing. And no matter how you use your points or when, they will generate income to Disney at some point and in some way. There's no way for an owner to truly hurt Disney in their points usage patterns (or not using them) or in selling for some reason.

From my standpoint, I would just want buying direct to be close in cost to buying resale, even if I have to make it up over the course of a year or two. The following are things that could sway me to buy direct:
Double my points for a year, even if the extra can't be banked
Half off resort points costs during low periods for X year(s)
Dining plan upgrades
Tickets to one or more theme park after hours events (Christmas, Food/Wine, Halloween, etc) for X year(s)
X annual passes for X year(s)
Free room upgrades (when available) upon check-in (restrict for X number of visits if required)

I think those days are long gone except for some very specific and limited options. At one point resale was roughly 20% of retail but those days are gone even when we're currently at a recent high point. As I said before, there really aren't enough perks they can/will add that would be enough to affect this balance. They only way to push people to retail is to take away from resale. Perks are generally little or no cost items. They could introduce a VIP system, they could tie extensions to retail purchases but as far as just throwing on gifts to entice people to buy resale, don't expect much and what you do get will be mostly window dressing.

 

[Nabas]

I, for one, would like to see it....if only to stop the cannibalizing of Disney direct sales. I'm frankly shocked that Disney has allowed it to go on as long as they have. They are handicapping their sales agents terribly by not nipping this in the bud.

Resales make up less than 15% of the market, hardly a number that threatens Disney market dominance.

Frankly, many of those buying resale would never pay Disney's direct prices so the number of direct sales lost to the resale market is even lower.

In order to justify Disney's direct prices, they need a small but robust resale market. It's difficult to justify charging $150/point if "restricted" resales are selling for $20/point.

Disney needs a strong resale market and as long as it remains small, would be foolish to place unnecessary restrictions on resales.