Disney dining plan will NOT include grat in 2008

[Lewisc]

I'm thinking Disney wouldn't have insisted on removing the included tip as part of the union negotiations if Disney wasn't planning on doing same.

We won't have the complete details until the package rates for 2008 are released. It sounds like the only thing up in the air is if Disney will still increase the price, keep it the same or reduce it by something like a token $1 as a result of tips being deleted.

Just my opinion but deleting the tip is the same as increasing the price by $7-$10. I don't think I'd buy the plan if the effective price became around $50.

I assume final word will not come untill pacakage rates for 2008 are realeased. Anyone else thinking this?

Tiffany

 

[aubriee]

It probably doesn't have anything to do with guest behaviour or tipping habits, and everything to do with "throwing a bone" to the union to make the removal of tips from the wildly popular dining plan easier to swallow.

I thought the servers hated the DDP and would be excited to see it go.

I would think they loved the DDP. Their tables were nearly always full. Alot of people who normally tip at least 20% would feel funny knowing the waiters are just getting 18%, so they leave a few dollars more to bring it up to what they would normally tip. The waiters get 18% automatically from people who normally don't tip or who would tip less than 18%. It seems like the wait staff would be getting alot more with the DDP than without it to me.

 

[tfc3rid]

Honestly, everytime I've visited WDW DDP or not, the restaurants were at least 75% of capacity...

 

[Lewisc]

I never thought that

Most of the complainers were in the very beginning of the plan. Servers initially had some cash flow issues. DDP tips were added to the servers pay checks so they didn't receive DDP tips as fast as they received "regular" tips.

I thought the servers hated the DDP and would be excited to see it go.

 

[allyphoe]

They dont post that stuff to the general public, you have to take the word of the cast members who live it daily in our lives

The current (until June 20, not the just-vote-on) contract can be found online in at least two places.

http://www.uniteherelocal362.org/2004.asp (Addendum D is the place to look) and http://www.local385.org/characters/STCFTWeb.htm.

The current (2004-2007) contract provisions regarding tips on groups and DDP are:

FOOD AND BEVERAGE

Service Charge for Parties of Eight (8) or More

An eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be included on all guest checks of groups of eight (8) or more.

1. The guests will be advised of the policy by the first Host/Hostess (i.e., DRC, Guest Services, Concierge, or Seating Host/Hostess) to accept the guest's reservations.

2. In addition to the above, the policy will be printed on the menus.

3. If a party of eight (8) or more, regardless of reservation size, arrives and is seated at the same table and receives separate checks, the automatic service charge shall apply.

4. If a party of eight (8) or more arrives and, for whatever reason, is split and seated at separate tables, with the same server regardless of the number of checks, the automatic service charge shall apply.

5. If the party of eight (8) or more arrives and, for whatever reason, is split, seated at separate tables with different servers, receives separate checks, and these checks are paid for by separate individuals, the automatic service charge does not apply.

6. In situations where our guests refuse to comply with our policy, it will be the responsibility of the service person to locate a Manager prior to the guests leaving the restaurant so that Management can speak with the guests. If the service person fails to involve a Manager in the situation prior to the guests departing the restaurant, or receives discipline for poor service, the Company will not be responsible for the difference between what the guest left and eighteen percent (18%) of the guest's food and beverage total.

7. The eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be automatically added to the guest check and will be calculated on the food and beverage totals. The server will not be required to inform the guest that a service charge has been included, unless he/she is asked by the guest.

8. A twenty percent (20%) service charge will be automatically added to parties of eight (8) or more only at Victoria and Albert's. With exception to the amount of the gratuity, all of the above aforementioned is applicable to Victoria and Albert's.

9. It is the Company's understanding that when a business requires their guests to pay a predetermined charge, which is given to employees of the business, the charges are considered a service charge. Furthermore, service charges are not considered a tip, but rather, are wages paid by the employer. Consequently, the tax code requires the Company to withhold taxes on all service charges.

10. The Company's position with regard to tips has not changed. It is the responsibility of all service persons to report 100% of their tips and gratuities for income tax purposes. The Company will continue to report eight percent (8%) of the location's gross sales to the government and will withhold tax on the tips and gratuities declared by the employee to the Company. The Company reserves the right to amend and/or alter this position to conform with state and federal laws.

11. Under Wage and Hour laws, the Company is required to report tips and service charges in overtime situations.

12. An eighteen percent (18%) service charge will be added for all package plans, supplemental Food and /or Beverage purchased and consumed by the guest covered by the package plan, and Company sponsored discounts. The service charge will be based on the total charges before any discounts have been applied. This provision does not apply to Disney Dining Experience and Disney Vacation Club. This change will phase into current packages through 2006.

Most server jobs are not covered by Minimum Wage laws, and therefore, the legal wage for a server is $0.00 per hour. The State of Florida may have set a floor of $3.65 to protect workers like yourself, but they don't determine how much you make.

All tipped jobs are covered by minimum wage laws, either state or federal. The current federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13, but if an employee makes less than the "regular" minimum wage after counting the tips, the employer is required by law to make up that shortfall. So no tipped employee realizes less than $5.25 an hour, under federal law. State law can require a higher minimum wage (Florida's tipped minimum is $3.65), but not a lower one.

 

[MarieA]

If the 18% gratuity is eliminated from the DDP, we will not add the DDP to our next reservation. We'll just use the DDE. I think the restaurants at WDW will be less crowded since so many are saying they will not use the new version of the DDP.

 

[Sammie]

I never thought that

Most of the complainers were in the very beginning of the plan. Servers initially had some cash flow issues. DDP tips were added to the servers pay checks so they didn't receive DDP tips as fast as they received "regular" tips.

I never thought it either but if you read the I Hate the DDP threads this is a reoccurring comment that the servers and staff at the Restaurants don't like the DDP.

 

[deltachi8]

If this is all true, I would be more interested in who made the proposal to remove the tips from the contract (Diney or the Union) and when that proposal was made. The nature of union negotiations is give and take and some degree of compromise.

For example, the union may have insisted on a certain benefit or increase in a benefit and the way Disney pays for that is elliminating the 18% DDP tip going from their pockets to the server . The idea being that Disney now has the budget to spend on benefit X and the servers may not be harmed (to a great degree) as they would now recieve tips from the customer directly. In this situation, the proposal could have come from either side or worked out together as a compromise. It passes the union vote because the majority of the members feel that the overall package on the table was worth while. (This is just wild speculation of course).

What the additional cost for a guest works out to is a tip on what they order for their table service meal each day. I think roughly $6-$10 per person depending on where and what you eat is about right.

Is it worth it? It depends on a number of things, room cost, eating patterns, value of being on site vs. off, rental cars, etc, etc, etc. Each person will have a different "break even point" depending on how they eat.

 

[paulh]

double post

 

[paulh]

so do i get this right,if i am on ddp frount of house and server tells me i will have to tip 18% before i sit down.End of meal will get a bill for an 18% tip left on table by server.Seams a bit intimadating to me to be told and tip forced into your face.And yes i from the uk and we do tip but wouldent if bullyed into it how are they going to enforce you to tip stop you leving untill you live one have aleays thought a tip was disgresanry and not an absolute.
Paulh

 

[Luv'sTink]

While I may not have expressed it the same way as the OP, I have to agree with his logic. Why do you think Europeans love American tourists? Because many Americans are unaware that tipping is not customary in Europe or even if they do know, they still tip because it feels uncomfortable not to. So it seems logical to me that American servers prefer guests familiar and comfortable with American customs of tipping, especailly when American servers are paid below minimum wage because of the assumption that the difference will be made up in tips.

OP - I truly feel for you and all the servers, especailly after enjoying the automatice tipping on the plan for these few years. Personally, I hope this is the first step in the decline and eventual elimination of the DDP as it currently exists. I am truly happy that so many people were able to enjoy WDW dining that would not have been able to do it otherwise. However, on a selfish level (and I know I am in the minority) our personal experience had definitely changed for the worse since the implementation of the DDP ie. hard to get ADRs/lack of spontaneity, quality of food change and standardization/cheapening of menu items (just my opinion). I had already accepted the changed experiences as WDW was not going to do anything to a plan that was profitable and popular with the masses.

Canadians are well aware of how tipping works in the US. OUT OF CONTROL TIPPING I should say. You tip in Canada too.

Not all servers in the US are paid below minimum wage either. Washington state does not allow them to be paid anything but minimum wage but they still want to be tipped 18 - 20%.

 

[grammy58]

You have to remember if you recieve great service and usually tip 20% if you get that service you should add extra to the 18% we as servers dont get to voice our opinions , and we can get fired if we dont add the 18% grat to large parties, and anything that requires auto grat... and the managers cannot do anything about the auto grat, its a company policy you have to remeber we are a union based company, the managers have to follow the union rules.. and also remeber the servers are a very small part of the voting in the contract so dont take out ur hard feelings with us, we all voted no for the removal of the 18% grat on the meal plans, and the 18% grat on the DDE cards, a good amount of the guests now who have the DDE card tip us the 20% they save on the card for our tip, and others who buy the card are just plain cheap and are always looking for a deal, But always remeber we make 3.65 an hour and the state of Florida regulates that.. all the other cast members get raises every year, and we stay the same unless the state changes it

That is terrible Wdw seems to me is getting very greedy. PLease let me know how to contact someone. These companies around the states only think about money not the employers. How sad it is becoming. Gone are they days where employers care about their employees. I think this is going to have a big effect on the servers. They wont make alot of tips now. People will feel the cost of the food is over priced and will feel no need to tip good. HOw sad.

 

[Brian Noble]

That is terrible Wdw seems to me is getting very greedy.

Is getting? Where have you been?

The Mouse never leaves money on the table. Ever.

 

[Disneyhappy]

Canadians are well aware of how tipping works in the US. OUT OF CONTROL TIPPING I should say. You tip in Canada too./QUOTE]

Tipping may be "OUT OF CONTROL" per Canadian standards but not under US standards. It is a difference in our customs and not an issue of whether one country's custom is right or wrong. When I visit other countries, I try to respect their customs, whether I agree with them or not.

 

[Joan1]

I have to say that no matter what happens with the dining plan, or not happen, there is always going to be some people that aren't happy with it

Before the MWY with dining was introduced we had to make due with the Silver Plan package that included many things that people didn't like or wouldn't use and this made the plan not visitor friendly. The Silver Plan had no flexibility at all in it as to park tickets included, they had to be length of stay, and also included the dining portion on the arrival and departure dates causing many people to book a room only on either end of the package if they didn't need the park tickets or dining on those dates. This is the reason this plan wasn't very popular

ALOT of people complained about the Silver Plan and its in-flexibility and wanted something more flexible but still including some meals. Along comes the dining plan as we know it today which gave people the flexibility they asked for. This dining plan works well, flexibility with packages and park tickets included, dining goes by number of nights, not days so you aren't stuck with dining options you won't be using because you have an early flight on your last day. Many people were hesitant to try this new dining plan because the old one got bad reviews. In comes the free dining plan to get people to try it and people found out that it was a very good deal an did purchase it on return visits to WDW whether they were paying for it or on the free dining offers.

Now tourism is back up, add to that the popularity of the dining plan, more information on the websites and guidebooks that making restaurant reservations ahead of time is the way to go, and you end up with crowded restaurants

If the dining plan is changed in 2008 then we will hear how they should change it back to what we currently have and / or we will hear from people not happy with that one either

EVERYONE has their own opinion on EVERYTHING
You know what they say, "you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time"


Off my soapbox now

 

[dreamsensei]

That is terrible Wdw seems to me is getting very greedy. PLease let me know how to contact someone. These companies around the states only think about money not the employers. How sad it is becoming. Gone are they days where employers care about their employees. I think this is going to have a big effect on the servers. They wont make alot of tips now. People will feel the cost of the food is over priced and will feel no need to tip good. HOw sad.

Not to be so negative, but when have these corporations been anything BUT greedy? Disney is a very nice place to go, and yes, quite magical...but don't think that they aren't spinning their greed as "magic". They're in it for the money, not the happiness of their customers directly....said happiness is the route to their acquisition of money

All that being said, I'm somewhat split in general in regards to their decision to remove the auto-tipping from the DDP. To me it was one of the most attractive features of the plan. I liked the idea that the waitstaff would get competitive tips regardless of the azzhattery of their customers. Yes, quite a few of us are noble and tip well...but that kid kicking the back of your seat on the plane? He has parents...ones that allow this...and trust me, they typically tip for crap.

However, I DO think that the waitstaff will now be more inclined to take a slightly more sycophantic approach in all cases. Perhaps this is for the better in that regard. Disney does need to lower the price of the DDP if they're going to remove the tip portion, at least on our end. For a week, with 7 table service meals, my fiance and I would end up tipping somewhere in the neighborhood of $140. That's quite a bit of scratch to suddenly tack on without adequate explanation from Disney.

Again, torn. I'll just wait and see if they cover themselves well.

 

[Mickey28]

Canadians are well aware of how tipping works in the US. OUT OF CONTROL TIPPING I should say. You tip in Canada too.

Not all servers in the US are paid below minimum wage either. Washington state does not allow them to be paid anything but minimum wage but they still want to be tipped 18 - 20%.

Luv's Tink,
No offense and I don't mean to insult you, but servers typically want the 18-20% because of their tip out. In many restaurants now the server must tip the bar usually 2% of their gross sales (food and liquour), bussers another 1%, and in some cases the expo gets a cut sometimes as much as 2-3%. So when a server gets a 15% or less tip they are getting 10% or less of their sales in tips . In South Carolina where I am from servers only make $2.13/hr which typically gets taken in taxes.

 

[wolverine2010]

I dont think disney is going to remove the tip portion from the price of the ddp so i think you would have to add-on what the tip would be to budget your dining...and if i understand this right it would mean a automatic 18% profit for disney right of the top and that wouldnt include any rate hike in 08...

 

[nluvwithmickey]

Why would they know you live off your tips? From my understanding the US is the only country that tips so high a percentage.

My in-laws would be pissed to find out you think they are cheap because they always tip more than 5%, more like 20%. I think that was a slam at Canadians. they are a huge guest base.

I have also seen supposed servers on the Dis saying they don't the 18% anyway, It can't be both ways.

I would like to say to the OP that he shouldn't put everyone in the same basket I AM CANADIAN and I KNOW how much I should tip, I've visited WDW a few tmes before the DDP was in effect and I did not eat at TS restaurants everyday BUT when I did, I always tipped accordingly....I think that you are being a bit too judgmental on other nationalities.

Hope I never get served by you.............

 

[GreatLakes5]

This is a link to another thread I just read on this topic stating that tips will be included next year:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1458550

I guess it depends on which thread one reads.

Interestingly, the news reports I'm reading show the union representing food servers endorsed the new contract. (see http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...7jun07,0,97902.story?coll=orl-home-headlines)....

As for tipping - I think those traditionally tipped are getting a bad rap, perhaps, because of the exploding number of "TIP" jars found everywhere....and I do think it IS uniquely American (spoken as an American, mind you ) I never remember having to tip for an ice cream cone, or my take-home pizza, etc....now the jars are all over the place.

It's not that the wait staff doesn't deserve it (when the service is good) it's that other areas of life are getting some folks a bit tipped-out!