Disney Dining Died On 8/16/2010 RIP

[jlk806]

We have no problems with the food we liked everything on our trip last Sept and are happy to be doing FD again this trip! But DH & I are not gourmet eaters, we are happy with hot dogs, pasta, chicken, etc and we like the food at Disney.

 

[mickey2000]

wdw the new land cruise ship ??????//

 

[brianatwcc]

we are going in november/december and paying oop for the deluxe dining plan. I think it is great, but i don't have a lot of perspective on the issue.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I think, my biggest disappointment has been in the menu/food/quaility in the World Showcase dining. This has steadily declined since the introduction of the Dining Plan.

I don't blame it so much on the economy. This began way before...

 

[willowsnn3]

You need to get over yourself.

 

[cluvsdisney]

Going off property for meals has always been the dumbest, most laughable, knee-jerk reaction to the topic of Disney food. Leaving property is (at the very least) an hour of wasted time per day. No matter how much money you think you're saving, or quality of food you think you're gaining, you can always make that up. When on a Disney vacation, every minute counts and any time spent away from the resorts, parks, et al. is Disney winning and you losing big-time, because you've already paid for the tickets and time in the parks which you are willingly giving up. Don't rationalize it, don't justify it, don't excuse it. You can never get back the time that you've lost.

BTW, we've been to hundreds of restaurants in the Orlando area and you're fooling yourself if you think leaving for lunch and/or dinner is taking you to some culinary heaven-on-Earth. It's not. Disney isn't winning any James Beard awards, but neither their F&B outlets nor their DDPs are so disgustingly bad that you cannot "tolerate" another meal.

You need to get over yourself.

I'm sorry, I am not following you. How is Disney winning if they are getting less of my money when I eat off property? I understand that I already paid for my park ticket but I am going to be spending an hour eating somewhere whether it be on or off property. If I spend that hour eating off property, Disney is losing the money I might have spent in one of their restaurants if I enjoyed eating there.

Also, I don't think the time spent on a meal with family or friends is dumb or laughable when we have a meal we enjoy instead of settle on.

 

[MSLRAC]

I'm always confused at those that are so gung ho for Free Dining- For us the 40%off room rate savings far exceeds what we would pay for dining. We stay deluxe though. So I guess I answered my own question- if I was staying budget I would go for free dining.

I am too because we do MUCH better with a room discount or the buy 4 get 3 promo. So this promo honestly has me thinking that free dining is the most profitable (for Disney) of all the discounts offered.

I am hopeful that they will release some other promos (or we get another PIN) for next year since a good portion of the year is blacked out of the free dining but I'm not holding my breath. We booked at rack rates and we are prepared to pay that if it comes down to.

 

[Bummbok]

I am too because we do MUCH better with a room discount or the buy 4 get 3 promo. So this promo honestly has me thinking that free dining is the most profitable (for Disney) of all the discounts offered.

And it probably is. They can control costs on the food far, far easier than anything else on property. The resorts are pretty fixed and the parks are very fixed without them doing something drastic to either one. For food they can change alot without too many people noticing or caring. Think of how much cheaper it is to buy bulk oak grilled filets...;-P

 

[iloveeeyore]

We returned a week ago from a 12-day stay in WDW, our first since 2008. I just have to say that we did not encounter any trace of a decline in food quality or service. To the contrary, almost every single establishment met or exceeded our expections, and the quality of the service we received was, overall, outstanding! We were paying OOP with a TIW card, and our service did not suffer despite that all of our servers knew in advanced we'd be paying a mandatory 18% tip. In most cases, we left a little extra because the service was above and beyond the necessary.

I have been researching where to dine since our last trip, and we avoided most of the TS restaurants in the parks; we dined mostly at the resorts (with some exceptions in Epcot and CRT). I'm working on my DR now, so I hope you will read it, but I would not hesitate to recommend any of the restaurants we tried. And never once did we feel "gouged," we felt we paid a pretty fair price for everything (allowing a little leeway considering we were in the biggest tourist destination in the world). We will be recovering from this trip for quite some time, but if I knew we could afford to do free dining next year I would jump on the opportunity to book it!

 

[ngvenice]

Just putting my two cents in. I understand how some of yall feel about what yall call the decline of the quality of the food. I can't attest to the decline because personally I don't go for the dining experience I go for the Parks and I dont have much experience with Disney's dining other than counter serv. That said I do see alot of complaints about the food on the forums. But there's always two sides to every coin. There are families who could not afford a trip to Disney if not for the free dining. I know that if Im getting free dining I'll need less spending money for my trip and that makes a huge, huge, huge difference for me. For some people going to Disneyworld is not even an option as it was for us for years. There was no way we could afford it but w/ the dining plan, a budget, and our finances improving, this will be our second trip. Going last yr was a blessing an dream come true.

 

[lugnut33]

another suggestion to the OP and other foodies that cannot stand the slop that the masses are eating is to go to the signature restaurants....

I never said it was slop, I was saying that the quality and value have diminished due to the "free" dining plan. For example, last August at Sunshine Seasons in Epcot I found the food to be subpar. Yeah, it's a theme park, but for the price I expect something better.

 

[lugnut33]

Nonetheless, I think the DDP is a great value and free dining allows us to visit WDW and have a decent meal every night we are there. I could not afford to go to Disney World otherwise. DDP was a far better value when it included appetizer and tip but still worth it.

Another problem is how they have structured the whole dining program. By jacking up the prices on the menus it makes people feel they are getting a "bargain" by getting "free" food, when that is actually far from the truth. If you look at it from Disney's standpoint, it's much much cheaper to give you "free" food than it is to offer a room discount. The $32 steak doesn't really cost Disney that much, but it does cost the out of pocket person that much. Of course, free dining plan people think it's free. And if they can serve a lower grade (aka cheaper) then that is more of your money Disney gets to keep.

 

[lugnut33]

While I agree with the PP's to a point, I also believe that geography influences the perceived value of the dining plan. I live on the east coast, I have a sibling in NYC, one in the suburbs of Atlanta and another in a ski resort town in CO. My sibling near Atlanta has by far the lowest food costs.

It costs the rests of us more for our everyday groceries, and more to dine out. It seems to me that depending where one lives, the price of dinner at a TS in WDW may or may not seem expensive. The quality may not be what it once was, but to some this translates to you get what you pay for.

A night out sharing one app, two entrées, two sides (they're often not included and must be ordered a la carte), one dessert and some alcoholic beverages can run $150 and up before tax and tip. So yes, WDW dining isn't exactly fine but its priced at a point I expect to pay for its location.

That is a really great point you make about how people from different cities perceive prices and one I didn't think about. Being from the midwest where we can grill up wonderful NY Strips like I did tonight for under $12 each gives me a different attitude towards the cost of food. That same steak in NYC restaurant would cost $40. Thanks

 

[lugnut33]

It is so nice to not have to worry about saving money for food before I head on vacation. I agree that now eating at Disney would be expensive if you weren't on the dining plan though. I don't think I will every go back to a non dining plan

Like I said, from a budgeting standpoint it is good. However not everyone is on the DDP, like us who are DVCers. I can purchase the dining plan, but it's not worth it at all in my opinion and that's because the "free" dining has killed the food selection. I mean, they could raise the price of every single item on the menu to $100 and if you're on the "free" plan you're going to think you're getting a great deal. However, if you have to travel when the "free" plan is not offered is it a good deal? No.

The actual cost of the food determines Disney's profit, not the price on the menu and that's why lowering the quality of food (and lowering their internal costs) directly effects how much Disney makes. They realize that and are more than willing to bury any culinary prowess they might have acheived in the past.

 

[BriarRosie]

i concur for the most part...

another suggestion to the OP and other foodies that cannot stand the slop that the masses are eating is to go to the signature restaurants... most free diners won't "waste" two credits on high-end food and you will have your fine dining experience...

i would venture to say that the porterhouse at yacht club is as good as or better than the porterhouse at ruth chris'...

However, the filet mignon at Yachtsman (as of this past December) was not up to par with any other filet I've had. And I'm from the Chicago suburbs. I have had steaks at various places around town, and most of them are priced similarly high ($40 at Yachtsman) but were way higher quality. I was extremely disappointed, since I've had decent steak at Yachtsman years ago.

I can remember around 1990 when the dining plan first came out and you could get breakfast/lunch/dinner any restaurant you want with an appetizer/entree/dessert/non-alcoholic drinks-Tip Inc!!! Every year we've gone since the dining plan first came out-we've said i'ts not as good as the first year! The bottom line is Disney is a business struggling in the economy just like the rest of us.

The current Disney Dining Plan didn't start until around late 2005-ish. Prior to that, Disney offered room packages like the Premium Plan and the Platinum Plan that included dining, but it was not set up like the DDP is today.

I thought the meals I had at Epcot 10 years ago were much better than most of the same food I can get today. My litmus test recently was Tangierine Cafe. I used to go there all the time, for years. In December, I went there and was served cold meat on the schwarma platter. It was not the same quality I was used to getting many times, and it will be a LONG time before I'll go back there again.

I'm not crazy about the eating patterns on the DDP. I much prefer flexibility of dining with the Tables in Wonderland card. I like having appetizers for meals.

I can understand why commando touring types think dining out of the "bubble" seems insane. But if you own DVC, or you stay offsite in vacation home rentals, and/or have annual passes, being inside the "bubble" isn't always a priority. I don't see anything wrong with that if you've got your own transportation. There's absolutely no need to belittle anyone who chooses to do this.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

the free dining is not really "free" given the high prices one has to pay for rooms and for the park passes. disney would not give anything away if it was cutting in to their bottom line as they are just another business out to make as much money as they can. don't get me wrong, we love disney but with everything there is a price even if it is stated something is for free.

 

[bluejasmine]

I do feel this is a bit over dramatic. Yes dining has gone down hill but so has every thing else even outside of WDW. In todays economy very little has been effected and the majority of WDW guests need a bit of finacial insentive to be able to afford to come back year after year. My own family has taken advantage of FD many times and its been the only way we can enjoy of the the higher end places I normally couldnt afford to eat OOP. Im not ashamed to say this. AT home we would never pay $200 to eat at a decent place for a family of 4 so the DDP gives us that chance.
WHile I am sure the DDP has had a hand in some of the cut back I will never believe it was completely responsible since we see the same trends in restaurants across the country.
Bottom line, WDW is a business and they need to do what keeps the guests coming back. WDW food still better than Universal, hands down!

 

[KTJAY]

Originally posted by BriarRosie
The current Disney Dining Plan didn't start until around late 2005-ish. Prior to that, Disney offered room packages like the Premium Plan and the Platinum Plan that included dining, but it was not set up like the DDP is today.



Right but it was essentially the same thing with a name change. Disney switched to the Magic Your Way Packaging and made it so you could add what you want to your package.

 

[Tiger926]

Another problem is how they have structured the whole dining program. By jacking up the prices on the menus it makes people feel they are getting a "bargain" by getting "free" food, when that is actually far from the truth. If you look at it from Disney's standpoint, it's much much cheaper to give you "free" food than it is to offer a room discount. The $32 steak doesn't really cost Disney that much, but it does cost the out of pocket person that much. Of course, free dining plan people think it's free. And if they can serve a lower grade (aka cheaper) then that is more of your money Disney gets to keep.

I am late to this conversation, but this it exactly! Since Disney has run with Free Dining, it tells us that it is the most profitable of all promos, and the easiest to control.

First timers or only timers who haven't been able to get to Disney are not only ecstatic as they are finally in Disney World, so they think of Free Dining as a reward. Secondly, they are so grateful to be there, that they'll pretty much be happy with anything, and thirdly, they have no other WDW dining experiences under their belts with which to compare the food. So, for them, their Disney vacations are amazing! For us who pay cash for meals, and have been doing so for years, way before any DPs came out, it's not so good.

Those of us who pay cash, are getting totally rocked, as Disney Dining is now all about the Dining Plan model - continually raising prices really doesn't faze people who pay with credits, but it does faze those of us who pay cash. Where is the threshold? I know for us as DVC regulars, we've pretty much eaten everywhere, including most Signatures, yet on this trip, we ate in our villa more than before, and will eat even more in our villa next trip. We are tired of paying bogus surcharges, and paying high prices for substandard food. I come from an Italian restaurant family, so I know exactly how the restaurant world works - when cheese goes up 3.00 a pound, my family can't raise prices, nor can they remove items. Quite the contrary, they have to keep the product the same, or in some cases, add to the products or they will lose customers. Loyal customers who are struggling financially cannot afford to eat out as much, so they have to increase their own food costs in order to stay in business. Plus in my area, minimum wage is 10.00/hour plus tips! Disney does the opposite - decreases the food costs to themselves and increases to the customers, and they get away with it because most customers won't notice or care, since it's free!

Sure the above is a good business model, if you have a stellar product, but Disney does not. My family's food is so good and consistently high quality ingredients, that most customers wouldn't notice if they changed things up a bit, but they don't even want to take that chance at all, yet they could as the ingredients are that good. Disney is not even in that ballpark - fries are gross, bacon is unedible, sauce is out of a can, etc. at most places. It's a neverending cycle of substandard products and now substandard service. Pack them in and herd them out, so the next group of DP people can come in, as this is where Disney's profits are.

I totally understand that without the Free DP, so many families wouldn't have a chance to visit Disney, and I'm torn with that, but why is it that a company needs to give something away for free, at the expense of other guests or other departments in order to generate business? Because it keeps guests coming back, and when the word Free is used, psychologically, they think that the company is being nice to them, when in fact, that is not the case with Disney at all. The other problem here is that it promotes wastage of product as well. Disney has a corporate responsibility, as far as I'm concerned, to promot non-wastage of food, and it doesn't do a good enough job here at all. Between the buffets, all you care to eats, and servers encouraging people to order food they aren't going to eat, because they are on the DP, it causes Disney's food costs to go up. Again, another vicious cycle of making up those lost revenues somewhere else...

We are saddened by the decline in quality and service in the restaurants, and we have attributed a lot, if not most of it to the DP, and we see it only getting worse now that an entire year of Free Dining has been announced. It bothers me when people say those of us who feel that way are being dramatic. When you have logged thousands of park hours and restaurant hours, like so many of us here have, it's not hard to remember what your favourite meal used to taste or look like, or how your favourite restaurant used to have a more extensive menu. I look back on old photos, and the restaurants looked much different than they do now, in terms of food quality, staff, etc.

We will be eating in less restaurants next trip, and we used to eat in 2-3 TS restaurants per day. Much less money in Disney's pockets from us, but clearly the DP families are making Disney way more profit, so they have no attachment to families like us who pay using cash. Which I understand, but clearly, regulars will and have paid for food many times before, and when those numbers drop off, there must be a reason, and please don't blame it on the economy!

It is a vicious cycle that Disney is 100% in control of, so I don't see it ending anytime soon, IMHO. The fact that they've taken an important component like food, and are using it for a free promo, speaks volumes about how that component is working for them. Is most Disney food edible? Sure, but it's less and less edible each and every trip for us, and the service is non-existent in some restaurants. This isn't drama or hard to please, on the contrary. We don't really expect anything in a restaurant (we know how hard it is), except edible food, and a server to take our order, help us if we have a problem, clear our plates and let us pay the bill. We clean our own messes, remove our children if they are grumpy and buss our own tables a lot of the time as the servers are not attentive.

Yucky and cheap food ingredients, bogus buffet surcharges, and servers who are non-existent don't work for us, so we will be frequenting the restaurants less next trip, and we aren't even going during a Free Dining period. We just don't find dining in Disney restaurants to be a great experience anymore, and we do attribute most of that to Disney's insistence on making more and more profit, on the backs of the chefs and servers, and ultimately the guests. I expect Disney to make a profit, as that is good for all of us, but I don't expect them to make a greedy profit, as clearly that causes corporations to lose focus. How long will this last? I'm sure many more years, as Free is probably the best marketing incentive out there!


Tiger

 

[ElizabethB]

Tiger926 -- Good post.

I agreed with everything BriarRosie said, too.

Those who claim there has been no decline in dining at WDW since the advent of the DDP (as currently run), simply haven't dined at WDW enough to see and quantify the difference.

Except for a very few signature restaurants (and even this list is diminishing as we've now crossed Artist Point off our list (Artist Point - a place we used to love!), dining at WDW at DDP restaurants simply is not worth the price anymore.

So, we choose to go to V&A, Il Mulino, Shula's, Bistro de Paris, some Down Town Disney restaurants, plus we're venturing off-site to try to restaurants elsewhere in Orlando that seem to get good reviews.

As for dining at Disney restaurants on the DDP, as another thread declares - RIP.