Disney closing Etsy shops?

[adelaster]

I think disney would be wise to partner with artists instead of shutting them down. Obviously etsy isn't the appropriate forum for that, but I see a lot of interesting ideas out there (and have a few of my own) that could benefit them. That said, they have a mighty task controlling their brand and related products, and likely seek the most cost effective mass production for their products. Don't have a business model sketched out, but I think it could work with some open corporate minds and compromising artisans.

 

[wilkeliza]

I think disney would be wise to partner with artists instead of shutting them down. Obviously etsy isn't the appropriate forum for that, but I see a lot of interesting ideas out there (and have a few of my own) that could benefit them. That said, they have a mighty task controlling their brand and related products, and likely seek the most cost effective mass production for their products. Don't have a business model sketched out, but I think it could work with some open corporate minds and compromising artisans.

They have a way. There are a lot of licensed artists who design and make Disney products. You just have to go to through the proper channels.

Here is the best place to start.

http://www.disneystudiolicensing.com/

 

[adelaster]

They have a way. There are a lot of licensed artists who design and make Disney products. You just have to go to through the proper channels.

Here is the best place to start.

http://www.disneystudiolicensing.com/

That's a useful link, but I meant more of a partnership or limited run setup, like what IKEA and anthropologie do with artists for example.

Disney does this with artists like Jim Shore & Thomas Kinkade, etc. but I think it would be interesting to see this in more of an "indie" context, so to speak.

Enchantedbrush, or any of the tshirt/pin small businesses likely benefit more from the licensing stuff.

 

[wilkeliza]

That's a useful link, but I meant more of a partnership or limited run setup, like what IKEA and anthropologie do with artists for example.

Disney does this with artists like Jim Shore & Thomas Kinkade, etc. but I think it would be interesting to see this in more of an "indie" context, so to speak.

Enchantedbrush, or any of the tshirt/pin small businesses likely benefit more from the licensing stuff.

I've seen a little bit of it but not a lot of the "indie" stuff. Again Karen Hallion is one of these. I don't think we'd ever see that stuff in the shops but they have fully let her continue making her shirts, bags, art, etc. I've got some cool "indie" stuff from Will Gay. He mostly does his for charity though. His art is available at Disney Springs but the other stuff is sold direct. I get what you are saying that it would benefit both parties by having it easier to access the "okay" indie stuff but I think for the things in park/stores Disney just has too much to deal with to consider indie things.

Uniqlo is a great place to go to find what I think you are looking for. They have a Disney line and their stuff is usually by a specific artist or two. Again not known names just passionate artists who caught the attention of Uniqlo.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I think disney would be wise to partner with artists instead of shutting them down. Obviously etsy isn't the appropriate forum for that, but I see a lot of interesting ideas out there (and have a few of my own) that could benefit them. That said, they have a mighty task controlling their brand and related products, and likely seek the most cost effective mass production for their products. Don't have a business model sketched out, but I think it could work with some open corporate minds and compromising artisans.

They do that already. My favorite thing to window shop at the parks is the artist paintings of the princesses. Judging by the prices, Disney and the artist make a killing. Thomas Kincaid is just one example of this- probably the best known one.

Probably 99% of the stuff they send out cease and desist letters for is either stuff that competes directly with their own licensed materials (magic band covers) or direct rip off stuff (the clip art). 1% covers all else, and some of that's stuff that they may not necessarily want associated with their brand as well as the really awesome artists. A lot of "fan" stuff that gets people into trouble is adult "naughty" stuff.

But in the case of the truly talented, I don't think those are big sellers on etsy. The really cool stuff is the kind of thing I'm inclined to buy and it's not cheap. The big sellers are the people who do stuff like magic band covers and produce a lot relatively fast.

It's entirely possible that Disney recruits from that tiny, tiny pool of talented artists. But many of those really talented people likely create their own stuff and stop creating Disney stuff because violating copyright becomes either a moral issue or too risky for their career.

 

[adelaster]

I've seen a little bit of it but not a lot of the "indie" stuff. Again Karen Hallion is one of these. I don't think we'd ever see that stuff in the shops but they have fully let her continue making her shirts, bags, art, etc. I've got some cool "indie" stuff from Will Gay. He mostly does his for charity though. His art is available at Disney Springs but the other stuff is sold direct. I get what you are saying that it would benefit both parties by having it easier to access the "okay" indie stuff but I think for the things in park/stores Disney just has too much to deal with to consider indie things.

Uniqlo is a great place to go to find what I think you are looking for. They have a Disney line and their stuff is usually by a specific artist or two. Again not known names just passionate artists who caught the attention of Uniqlo.

I'll check it out. I have been using etsy since 2007ish? but only recently bought a pin there. Personally, I would never sell copyrighted goods, but I do make things for myself and friends that have at times included interpretations of copyrighted material.

Society6 is another source for inspired art sometimes related. Honestly, the removal on etsy does not impact me, just sharing my ideas! When I want something I usually end up creating it myself, and I'm not usually big on licensed/copyright material when I make a purchase.

 

[Lothlórien]

I do wish Disney would do a sweep and close all of them. It is their intellectual property and people are illegally making a living or funding towards their living selling images that are not theirs. Disney should not be selectively sending cease and desist letters. Their legal team is fully aware at the number of shoppes/boutiques in etsy. While I would not report people for the sake of getting them into trouble, at the end of the day they all need to be closed.

The ONLY area where this does not apply is when a person has an embroidery machine and they have paid for the license. Even that license is limited. But, those images were reviewed by Disney and approved, which is why they are included in the license.

 

[Lothlórien]

They have a way. There are a lot of licensed artists who design and make Disney products. You just have to go to through the proper channels.

Here is the best place to start.

http://www.disneystudiolicensing.com/

Disney Corporation does not make approvals for people that sell on etsy, FB, etc. That link is not for individuals.

I know that is not what you are suggesting, but I wanted to say that for all who see that and think "oh I will contact Disney and get approval to sell my bows/SVG files/shirts/etc.

 

[Lothlórien]

I have heard of 2 separate companies on Etsy that sold Disney related items getting a C&D within the last 3 months... Looks like they are cracking down.

2 shops is not cracking down.

There are literally hundreds of shops on etsy that sell Disney items. They only go after the ones that are reported to their tips hotline.

 

[Lothlórien]

I know this is an old thread that was recently necro'ed, but...

My (this is going to be unpopular) opinion on this is "good for Disney".

They need to protect their intellectual property rights.

It doesn't matter that someone is trying to make a living off of making crafts using someone else's IP and those sales are insignificant dollar-wise. They are breaking the law, plain and simple. And I'd bet that nearly all of them knew that going into it. You take a risk, and sometimes you have to pay the consequences.

IP theft and piracy is a big deal. If Disney turns the other way at individuals making homemade crafts, they can potentially lose the rights to those characters, opening the door for large companies to start profiting off of their materials.

Exactly. I have a commercial heat press and I make shirts, but I do not make and sell Disney shirts. (or any other copyright image)
I make shirts for my friends and family members. They buy the shirts, give them to me and I do the rest. I do not make any profit. I actually lose money because I do not get reimbursed on the HTV, etc.
I make shirts for my own trips as well, but legally I can do that.

The only shirts and ornaments I sell are my own creations from images or fonts where I paid for a commercial license.

 

[wilkeliza]

Disney Corporation does not make approvals for people that sell on etsy, FB, etc. That link is not for individuals.

I know that is not what you are suggesting, but I wanted to say that for all who see that and think "oh I will contact Disney and get approval to sell my bows/SVG files/shirts/etc.

They have a way to ask. It isn't just for corporations. Of course they are probably going to say no to some screen printing shirts of files they found online but again there are artists who make liscensed shirts and bags who have gone through these chanels with their self created art to do so.

 

[Lothlórien]

They have a way to ask. It isn't just for corporations. Of course they are probably going to say no to some screen printing shirts of files they found online but again there are artists who make liscensed shirts and bags who have gone through these chanels with their self created art to do so.

My point is, plain and simple...... The vast majority of items you see are sold illegally. They do not give many approvals.
Here is your basic response from Disney when inquiring about a license:



As you may well appreciate, we receive innumerable requests to use the Disney characters. It is most difficult to reply to an email such as yours because we are in the unhappy position of having to deny permission to reproduce the Disney copyrighted character in the manner you suggested. The Disney characters are protected by copyright, and the nature of the United States Copyright Act is such that unless we exercise a high degree of control over every use of the characters, we endanger that valuable property. This would personal review and quality control over every single item.

Please know that any companies or individuals wishing to reproduce our characters and other copyrighted images must submit an application to Disney Consumer Products to become an authorized licensee. Most of these requests are denied as we cannot review every item created for our approval before it hits a target audience.

Please be assured that our refusal to grant the permission you have requested is not capricious, but is based on experience and on the necessity of complying with the copyright laws.

Please know we have a legal team dedicated to the protection of our copyrighted properties. Our Guests area always welcome to report observations of suspected copyright infringement.

To report a suspected infringement you can either use our enforcement hot line, 818-560-3300, or the email account we have set up for this purpose: Tips@disneyantipiracy.com. Please be assured that we regard our investigations as confidential and we do not reveal our sources.


We hope you will understand our position.

Sincerely,

Legal Requests
Walt Disney World Resort

 

[Westcoastwild]

My point is, plain and simple...... The vast majority of items you see are sold illegally. They do not give many approvals.
Here is your basic response from Disney when inquiring about a license:



As you may well appreciate, we receive innumerable requests to use the Disney characters. It is most difficult to reply to an email such as yours because we are in the unhappy position of having to deny permission to reproduce the Disney copyrighted character in the manner you suggested. The Disney characters are protected by copyright, and the nature of the United States Copyright Act is such that unless we exercise a high degree of control over every use of the characters, we endanger that valuable property. This would personal review and quality control over every single item.

Please know that any companies or individuals wishing to reproduce our characters and other copyrighted images must submit an application to Disney Consumer Products to become an authorized licensee. Most of these requests are denied as we cannot review every item created for our approval before it hits a target audience.

Please be assured that our refusal to grant the permission you have requested is not capricious, but is based on experience and on the necessity of complying with the copyright laws.

Please know we have a legal team dedicated to the protection of our copyrighted properties. Our Guests area always welcome to report observations of suspected copyright infringement.

To report a suspected infringement you can either use our enforcement hot line, 818-560-3300, or the email account we have set up for this purpose: Tips@disneyantipiracy.com. Please be assured that we regard our investigations as confidential and we do not reveal our sources.


We hope you will understand our position.

Sincerely,

Legal Requests
Walt Disney World Resort

Yep. Standard answer: "no, you do not have the right to use our copyrighted materials. You can ask but you are really unlikely to be granted permission." I don't really understand what the debate is here. This isn't a Disney only thing; they aren't doing anything exceptional. Photographers do this, writers do this, artists do this. In fact those folks do it more aggressively than a corporation that simply doesn't have the time to hit every violator immediately. Etsy creators are profiting off brand recognition. It's flat out illegal and every single one of them know they are breaking the law. Just because they haven't been caught yet doesn't mean they won't get caught.

The people who want to respect copyright do so by not designing Disney stuff for sale. It's that simple.

 

[Lothlórien]

Yep. Standard answer: "no, you do not have the right to use our copyrighted materials. You can ask but you are really unlikely to be granted permission." I don't really understand what the debate is here. This isn't a Disney only thing; they aren't doing anything exceptional. Photographers do this, writers do this, artists do this. In fact those folks do it more aggressively than a corporation that simply doesn't have the time to hit every violator immediately. Etsy creators are profiting off brand recognition. It's flat out illegal and every single one of them know they are breaking the law. Just because they haven't been caught yet doesn't mean they won't get caught.

The people who want to respect copyright do so by not designing Disney stuff for sale. It's that simple.

Right, exactly what I have been saying all along. It is illegal. If you do it, you are stealing.


Did you know.....etsy reported (2014 I think) that 70%+ of their listings are from copyright images. As that is how they make money, etsy is allowing people to sell IP from other companies knowingly so that they can thrive and make money. Wonder how that would fare for them if they were sued by the Disneys of the world. (we already know the answer)
They only shut the stores down when they are contacted by corporations. I know that Gerber is on top of it and at one point had a suit against etsy for allowing people to use the word "onesie", which they have a copyright on.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Right, exactly what I have been saying all along. It is illegal. If you do it, you are stealing.


Did you know.....etsy reported (2014 I think) that 70%+ of their listings are from copyright images. As that is how they make money, etsy is allowing people to sell IP from other companies knowingly so that they can thrive and make money. Wonder how that would fare for them if they were sued by the Disneys of the world. (we already know the answer)
They only shut the stores down when they are contacted by corporations. I know that Gerber is on top of it and at one point had a suit against etsy for allowing people to use the word "onesie", which they have a copyright on.

Wow, no, I didn't know that. That's a higher percentage than I would have expected, but then again, I don't look on etsy for that type of stuff- usually it's things like unique upcycled home decor, so if I run across Disney stuff, it's stuff mentioned here or something I saw randomly.

I don't really think it's etsy's battle to fight, honestly. Some stuff is obscure enough that no one would catch it unless they had specialized knowledge. Some stuff is copyrighted but its creators have pretty much said we won't pursue it unless you shove it in our faces. And some stuff is like Gerber's onsie thing- who knew that they had it copyrighted? More to the point, who cares except Gerber?

The trouble with copyright infringement is that so much of it is like porn. Can't define it, but you'll know when you see it. For instance, there's a party company that just popped up in my area. Basically princesses can visit your kids party. The founders are ladies in their 20s- well educated enough to know to leave anything Disney associated out of their descriptions and websites. But I've seen the outfits and the "party package" descriptions, and it's definitely Disney princess oriented. Maybe on a few, it's gray area. But you can't mistake Anna and Elsa for anything BUT. Dangerous and pretty stupid in the days of internet.

So confession of dorkdom here: I like fan fiction. I mean, I'll read anything- I'm a language nerd, and fan fiction is just generally how I check out new fandoms. I don't write it because I don't like the idea of putting that out publicly, and playing with other folks' worldbuilding is ultimately not all that interesting. But I like to see other fans' takes on different characters or storylines in the same way I like to see steampunk or goth Disney princess costumes. Anyway- the point is- what cracks me up is that the fan communities, without exception, are very big about "copyrighting" their own creations...and heaven forbid they catch someone ripping off one of their stories or artworks...but it doesn't ever seem to really bother them that they are misappropriating someone else's characters to begin with. They see it as "ok" because they are "true fans" and thus entitled to do so. I see the same kind of mindset over here in regards to etsy and park stuff and it's mind boggling.


Anyway...discussions like this always seem to hinge on the idea that corporations like Disney can't afford to offend their loyal customer base. But I sometimes wonder if Disney would really just prefer to cater to happy families and would breathe a sigh of relief if the "true fans" found another sandbox to play in. There is really no way to make the crazies happy.

 

[DPRincess81]

I don't really think it's etsy's battle to fight, honestly. Some stuff is obscure enough that no one would catch it unless they had specialized knowledge. Some stuff is copyrighted but its creators have pretty much said we won't pursue it unless you shove it in our faces.

Something I think that's worth thinking about is... and I'm going to date myself... remember Napster? We were file sharing music via Napster and Napster eventually got shut down. I actually think it's interesting that Etsy isn't being held to the fire a bit more regarding what is sold via their website. But I don't know all the ins and outs of how this works. Etsy must live in a very gray area that creates a lot of confusion. We all know when we see an Etsy outfit walking around the park and wonder how it's okay for the seller to profit from it. It's all VERY interesting to me...

 

[Westcoastwild]

Something I think that's worth thinking about is... and I'm going to date myself... remember Napster? We were file sharing music via Napster and Napster eventually got shut down. I actually think it's interesting that Etsy isn't being held to the fire a bit more regarding what is sold via their website. But I don't know all the ins and outs of how this works. Etsy must live in a very gray area that creates a lot of confusion. We all know when we see an Etsy outfit walking around the park and wonder how it's okay for the seller to profit from it. It's all VERY interesting to me...

Lol. Well, if you're dating yourself, you're dating me too!!

Yes, good point. It could be heading in that direction. Sites like airbnb and uber certainly are- the more the rules are flouted (like the outfits worn in the park) the less tolerant the effected parties become, and the closer the law comes to cracking down hard on the violators.

I will say that napster was slightly different. It was outright theft and everyone knew it. I didn't do it much because 1) campus monitored it so the threat was not cease and desist, the threat was housing fines, and 2) it was more trouble than it was worth. But I had friends who downloaded 1000s of songs and that directly impacts the artist. Bootlegged Disney dvds or magic band ornaments impact Disney a lot more than remimagined Belle dresses that Disney does not sell for adults anyway. I'm not saying Disney won't nail etsy to the wall for the latter. But I'm saying that I think they are careful about battles they pick, and because of this they have not seen a compelling reason to take etsy down yet.

 

[DPRincess81]

Lol. Well, if you're dating yourself, you're dating me too!!

Yes, good point. It could be heading in that direction. Sites like airbnb and uber certainly are- the more the rules are flouted (like the outfits worn in the park) the less tolerant the effected parties become, and the closer the law comes to cracking down hard on the violators.

I will say that napster was slightly different. It was outright theft and everyone knew it. I didn't do it much because 1) campus monitored it so the threat was not cease and desist, the threat was housing fines, and 2) it was more trouble than it was worth. But I had friends who downloaded 1000s of songs and that directly impacts the artist. Bootlegged Disney dvds or magic band ornaments impact Disney a lot more than remimagined Belle dresses that Disney does not sell for adults anyway. I'm not saying Disney won't nail etsy to the wall for the latter. But I'm saying that I think they are careful about battles they pick, and because of this they have not seen a compelling reason to take etsy down yet.

LOL! I think I was off-campus before anyone cared about Napster. Not by much, but still... I agree about Disney picking battles carefully. That's always been my opinion as I see these adorable outfits out there. I love the idea of crafting and sharing, but selling is different. I also think Disney knows they ride a fine line of offending their main fan base and needing to protect their IP. But we can speculate for days! This thread was just so interesting to stumble upon... I don't even remember what I was looking for when I found it.

 

[Westcoastwild]

LOL! I think I was off-campus before anyone cared about Napster. Not by much, but still... I agree about Disney picking battles carefully. That's always been my opinion as I see these adorable outfits out there. I love the idea of crafting and sharing, but selling is different. I also think Disney knows they ride a fine line of offending their main fan base and needing to protect their IP. But we can speculate for days! This thread was just so interesting to stumble upon... I don't even remember what I was looking for when I found it.

The dis has that effect, yes indeed