Disney Closing Animal Kingdom?

Good post JimC and I think everyone will find that when the 2003 attendance numbers are released that AK will not be the Park with the biggest problem...This doesn't mean Disney doesn't have any issues but Jim is absolutely correct in stating that AK's history is fraught with uncertainty and the test of time is more than 5 years. This why I think Disney is slow in addressing the problems of a truly troubled park like DCA...But time is on their side...An Aladdin here, a ToT there and things slowly begin to change. 10 years from now, who knows...
 
""cold hard facts that the MAJORITY" of the public considers AK to be a half day park."

That's exactly what Disney's own internal marketing analysis show. The only thing keeping the park from 'Joe's Alligator Farm' level of attendance is parking hoping (and Mr. Pirates additional vist every trip).

Why do you think 'Everest' went to AK instead of 'Fire Mountain' being built in the Magic Kingdom? You invest in the park with the most troubles.
 
Originally posted by Peter Pirate
But time is on their side...An Aladdin here, a ToT there and things slowly begin to change. 10 years from now, who knows...
I wonder if Disney is the only company that you extened this 10 year wait and see policy for?
 
Europa, heck no. Many companies have the ability to survive the test of time. Haliburton for instance, is a great investmnt (for the next six years anyway) but wasn't always so lucrative...It all has to do with circumstances.

Look at IBM, GM, GE...They were all down, down, down but their basc philosophy allowed them to withstand the test of time. Up down, up down...

M .Voice, I knew you couldn't resist. But surly anything I've said doesn't contradct the premise that money DOES need to be spent on the underperfoming did I? I never said AK wasn't an underachiever, I never said that they didn't get "spanked" with Dinorama but that doesn't make it worse than US for god's sake!

AK is great as it is for many and for the rest it is acres and acres of potential that WILL eventually compliment MK beatifully...
 

That's exactly what Disney's own internal marketing analysis show. The only thing keeping the park from 'Joe's Alligator Farm' level of attendance is parking hoping (and Mr. Pirates additional vist every trip).
We talk a lot around here, but I haven't seen anything that is cold or hard that confirms your statement.
Why do you think 'Everest' went to AK instead of 'Fire Mountain' being built in the Magic Kingdom? You invest in the park with the most troubles.
Can AK be as mirerable a failure as you claim given the fact that Epcot got Space before AK got Everest? Based on your statements and by your logic, shouldn't AK have gotten the new attraction nod over Epcot a few years ago?

Yes, AK has its problems, but I don't think it is as bleak as many like to paint it.
 
Originally posted by DisneyKidds
We talk a lot around here, but I haven't seen anything that is cold or hard that confirms your statement.

Can AK be as mirerable a failure as you claim given the fact that Epcot got Space before AK got Everest? Based on your statements and by your logic, shouldn't AK have gotten the new attraction nod over Epcot a few years ago?



How many years have they been building MS? 3-5 ? Didn't Asia and Dinorama (bad as it is ) go to AK before Epcot?

Anybody care to tackle the question I posed earlier?
 
Didn't Asia and Dinorama (bad as it is ) go to AK before Epcot?
The one thing I agree with HB on is that Asia should not really be viewed as an expansion or an addition put in place to boost miserable attendance. Furthermore, I don't think anyone believes that DinoRama was intended to be an E-ticket, save the park kind of attraction. So, even if M:S has been in development for 3 years, if AK was such the failure in need of saving why didn't it get Everest first?
Anybody care to tackle the question I posed earlier?
I assume you mean the reason for AK being the least attended park. The answer is simple, and you touched on it - it's the stupid guests ;) :crazy:.

I'm kidding, of course. We have talked about the AK concept before, and I believe it is just a concept that the public hasn't embraced that well. For a variety of reasons the expectations people have for a Disney park just aren't met. I believe that is why Disney put out that whole "nthazu" campaign, as the park suffered from an identity crisis. While there is enough there to occupy a guest for a day+, the mix of attractions leaves some guests looking for more....more attractions, more rides, more shows, more restaurants. People go looking for something specific, as opposed to looking at what is there. That isn't the guest's fault, as it is Disney's job to make sure that that doesn't happen - and they failed in that regard to a certain extent. Of course, failure is a relative term. It may be the ugly duckling of Disney's Orlando parks, but it still beats all the non-Disney Orlando competition.
 
At least DAK is a whole lot better than DCA:p

I really like DAK more so than all the others, the CM's are the friendliest and seem to have better morale across the board.
 
Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Furthermore, I don't think anyone believes that DinoRama was intended to be an E-ticket, save the park kind of attraction. So, even if M:S has been in development for 3 years, if AK was such the failure in need of saving why didn't it get Everest first?

Ahh..but you if go back in time. AK had been opened 1-2 years. So its safe to assume that AK just didn't have it's legs yet ( or some at Disney might argue) So they look at Epcot and AK as both needing something new as Test Track was not doing the trick. So the answers comes one for each. Only Epcot gets a sponsor and a big budget (even though it takes 3 plus years to build) Ak gets a great new Indoor roller coaster...only Eisner keeps slashing the budget because he is paying for it. So you end of with Dinorama. 2 years later attendance is still in the crapper.

I assume you mean the reason for AK being the least attended park. The answer is simple, and you touched on it - it's the stupid guests ;) :crazy:.

Is there any doubt in your mind that if AK opened with two more E-tickets and a C or D that we would even be having this discussion?
 
Originally posted by Mr D


I really like DAK more so than all the others, the CM's are the friendliest and seem to have better morale across the board.

No doubt we even had a manger from AK take us back to our hotel in a Disney van the last time we were there really supper nice guy). He was very curious as to why we were leaving AK so early (before the buses started to pickup people and not just drop off) After we told him our reasons he admitted that it was a common complaint.
 
Is there any doubt in your mind that if AK opened with two more E-tickets and a C or D that we would even be having this discussion?
Yeah, there is doubt in my mind about that. Two more E-tickets would only keep those looking for rides in the park for another hour or two. So maybe you'd spend 4 or 5 hours instead of 3. If the C or D was similar to other C's or D's in the park, what makes you assume people would see it over the attractions they aren't seeing now? A couple of E-tickets won't do the job for AK unless the people who come to ride those E-tickets actually take notice of everything else the park has to offer. If they don't, the identity crisis would continue.
 
Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Yeah, there is doubt in my mind about that. Two more E-tickets would only keep those looking for rides in the park for another hour or two. So maybe you'd spend 4 or 5 hours instead of 3. If the C or D was similar to other C's or D's in the park, what makes you assume people would see it over the attractions they aren't seeing now? A couple of E-tickets won't do the job for AK unless the people who come to ride those E-tickets actually take notice of everything else the park has to offer. If they don't, the identity crisis would continue.

2 or more E tickets and a C or D would put it on par with MGM and Epcot. Surly it would bump up AK attendance to at least those levels? Disney guest are not about rides they are about attractions. So by your account MGM should be facing the same problem as AK becuase by my count it only has 4 "rides" and one of those is the Great Movie ride.
 
Our family loves AK, but I feel that most of the public only cares about having bigger and bigger thrills. Sad, but true. Most people these days can not just walk around and enjoy looking at beautiful plants and animals.
 
Most people these days can not just walk around and enjoy looking at beautiful plants and animals.
I'll post on the other messages when I have a little more time...but I just have to remind this poster of something....



IT'S NAHTAZU!
 
So by your account MGM should be facing the same problem as AK becuase by my count it only has 4 "rides" and one of those is the Great Movie ride.
Not really. WITHOUT 2 more E-Tickets and a C and D MGM and AK are already on par attraction wise (except for the nighttime show). I believe this is where the zoo/nahtazu thing comes into play.

At MGM, the non-ride attractions are pretty unique, at least as in the fact that you can't find them in most major cities. On the other hand, many people believe the AK non-ride attractions are no different than what they can find in their local zoo, and many people don't see them.

Look at it this way:

Rides: MGM has ToT/RnR/Star Tours/GMR/Catastrophe Canyon. AK has Dinosaur/Safari/Kali/PW/Triceratops. That's 5 and 5 and so far your logic holds.

Shows: MGM has Mermaid, Beauty, Indiana Jones, Muppets, Playhouse Disney. AK has Lion King, Tarzan, Flights of Wonder, Pocahontas, Tought to be a Bug. Again, that's 5 and 5 and your logic holds.

Here is problem number one. While the quantity and quality of most of the items listed so far is about the same (maybe MGM has the slight advantage), people are't seeing all the AK things listed. No way they can be if they just spend a half day as you can't do them all in 4 or 5 hours. So there is something different going on.

Now we look at the other attractions: MGM has Animation Tour, One Man, Millionaire, Honey I Shrunk playground, Sounds Dangerous (?), parade. AK has Conservation Station, Africa walking trail, Asia walking trail, Boneyard, Tree of Life, parade. While I may be forgetting a few things, it looks about even in this regard. MGM has Fantasmic as well. However, I submit that the MGM other stuff is probably seen by more people. Like I said, people can't find that stuff anywhere else. On the other hand, I think they view the AK stuff differently. Perhaps they think Conservation Station is like the petting zoo at their local zoo, the walkign trails the same thing. While the boneyard may be unique, most people don't take time to appreciate the Tree of Life. So the result is they bypass these things.

While I agree most Disney guests are more for attractions than rides, I think many of the AK attractions just don't grab them the same way - not for lack of quality, but moreso because the concept doesn't grab them. At least that is my take, but I could be wrong. However, objectively looking at the attraction count between MGM and Ak it isn't all that different. Furthermore, objectively assessing how much time it would take to do all things in both parks the result woould be the same. MGM gets bigger numbers even though on paper they are on par - how else would you explain it?
 
Originally posted by DisneyKidds
- how else would you explain it? ]
Like I've said I think it's whats not there more then what is currently there. As in if they add more quality attractions to the park.( on the lines of MS, EE or Beastly Kingdom) to the park we won't be talking about attendace problems at AK. AK will not benfit from more Animal walking tours or more Dionramas.
 
but it still beats all the non-Disney Orlando competition.
The last attendance report I saw showed Universal Studios (the original park) had caught DAK.
 
Look at IBM, GM, GE...They were all down, down, down but their basc philosophy allowed them to withstand the test of time. Up down, up down...
But did you buy the crap they produced during the down period or did you just wait for them to produce a quality product?
 
If you speak of Expedition Everest, it has already begun. WRE never got this far.
I do speak of E:E. It is (from what I've read) no farther along than WRE was prior to it's cancellation.

And let me also say this....just as some are told not to judge a product until they've seen it (which is absurd), don't toot the praises of this ride until you see what the budget machete leave behind for you to "enjoy".
 
AK is on track - its only five years old and three of those years have been with a poor economy, terror threats and the Iraq war. At the same time Disney has been struggling with its ABC network purchase.

Same old, same old blah blah blah...

Those aren't reasons....they're excuses.

But it just highlights that AK is not the only draw on talent and capital in the Disney empire.
This isn't a ma & pop operation. If this workload was so much that they must neglect some of their properties (including the one which has been the main profit center of the company) why did they let go of so many imagineers?

P.S. Aside from DisneySeas (which they didn't pay for) the rest of the theme park projects you describe are pathetic.

I believe if you look at the history of all Disney parks you will find that they open with a limited selection of rides and many plans for future development. This holds true all the way back to DL. In fairness they are supposed to grow and develop.

WRONG!

The advent of the partially complete but open to the public theme park started with MGM.

This why I think Disney is slow in addressing the problems of a truly troubled park like DCA
Or could it be they're waiting for the brand monkeys to finally wake up and smell the Tortillas?

Face it, the reason DCA has largely been ignored or is becoming CLONELAND WEST is because Disney has ZERO intrest in spending a dime in that park.

We talk a lot around here, but I haven't seen anything that is cold or hard that confirms your statement.
Sorry Kidds but I trust AV's insight. I don't think you'll see Disney send out a press release announcing people think their park is crummy. Also what rock have you been under....the half day / poor value concept has been reported in the media quite frequently...more than any other explaination...

Furthermore, I don't think anyone believes that DinoRama was intended to be an E-ticket, save the park kind of attraction.
So you agree with me that the park (save renaming rides & areas) has largely remained static?
 












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